I guess Masashi read Harry Potter

[CynicismKills]

Bleach's mythology doesn't seem internally consistent, but that's probably a problem with LOTS of anime.

Naruto actually holds up pretty well... Hm.

I think part of Bleach's problem is all the filler arcs since it was running pretty neck-in-neck with the manga releases. Without those it seemed a little more solid.[/QUOTE]

Oh I'm not even considering that garbage, it clearly doesn't count.[/QUOTE]

Oh. Well, in that case.

 

[Gusto]

What I mean is that there seems to be a lot of ambiguity (if not straight-up conflicting evidence) about how life and the afterlife works in Bleach, to say nothing of how one categorizes oneself between its multiple factions.

 

[General Specific]

Here's why I think Bebop is considered so great by so many:

1) It has very few of the features that turn most people off of anime: Annoying screechy voices, sudden use of chibi character designs and weird faces to emphasize that something going on is "funny," stock gags that barely humorous to begin with, horrible English dubbing that forces you to watch using subtitles, etc.

2) It has slick, fast-paced, grooving style in which stuff actually happens, instead of filling the episodes with people preparing to do stuff, talking about how they're going to do stuff, and reacting to stuff that's been done.

3) Some of the best animation ever in a TV series.

4) It touches on a number of philisophical and sociological issues, but never dwells on them -- it leaves the dwelling up to the viewer.

5) Legitimate tension, because the characters occasionally succeed, but fain more often than not.

6) Arguably the best soundtrack for any TV show, live action or animated, ever.

7) Spike Spiegel

8) Motherf*cking Spike Spiegel

9) SPIKE SPIEGAL GODDAMN IT!

So yeah, I'm sure there are plenty of other animes with better premises, more engaging overarching storylines, and possibly even better characters, but I think it's these qualities that make Bebop so popular in the eyes of many -- especially in the eyes of people who usually can't stand Anime.

Also, I'm not saying that Bebop is the only anime that has each of these qualities. It just combines them so well.

10) Vicious

 

[figmentPez]

Anime in 5 Seconds

When are we going to get the ability to embed Blip videos?

 

[CynicismKills]

What I mean is that there seems to be a lot of ambiguity (if not straight-up conflicting evidence) about how life and the afterlife works in Bleach, to say nothing of how one categorizes oneself between its multiple factions.

I see, I see. I haven't kept up to date on Bleach, so it's all a little hazy. I watched up to the fights with those numbered dudes, and it was somewhere in the battle with the young one with the tentacles.

 

[fade]

Well, it's formulaic, but yes, I do like the character design. It's very easy to tell characters apart, which is rare in a lot of manga. Or, you know, Megatokyo and CAD.

That's true, but when it comes down to it, just about everything is formulaic. Lord of the Rings is formulaic. It's the flesh you put on the bones that makes it interesting.

---------- Post added at 01:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:42 PM ----------

What I mean is that there seems to be a lot of ambiguity (if not straight-up conflicting evidence) about how life and the afterlife works in Bleach, to say nothing of how one categorizes oneself between its multiple factions.

I see, I see. I haven't kept up to date on Bleach, so it's all a little hazy. I watched up to the fights with those numbered dudes, and it was somewhere in the battle with the young one with the tentacles.[/QUOTE]

I thought they've kept the necessary parts pretty clear. The factions are pretty straight forward, esp. if you've watched/read the "110 years ago" arc. They don't explain a whole lot about the afterlife, but I'm cool with that, because overexplaining it would be too much, and it's not really part of the story. Good dead go to the soul society, but apparently with no memory (explained in that movie with the shinigami who could remember her life as a human). Bad dead go to Hell. Hanging on to life or being devoured by a hollow makes you literally lose your heart and become a Hollow. Shinigami don't really kill Hollows, they just purify them, but Quincies actually kill them. Etc. etc.

 

[Gusto]

Alright how about this?

Hitsugaya is a captain who, as is necessary to become a captain, attained the level on bankai. Hitsugaya looks like he's 12 goddamned years old. This can be explained two ways.

1) Hitsugaya is some kinda shinigami genius who attained the level of bankai much faster than his adult colleagues.
2 Hitsugaya is no different from the other captains, but died and came to Soul Society as a child, and you don't age when you're dead.

Option 1 is disproven by Yoruichi, who tells Ichigo during his Bankai training that he will be using a special method that none of the captains have used, and that it normally takes hundreds of years to reach that level. So it should have taken the Kid roughly the same amount of time.

But that's okay because it's not like spirits age in Soul Society, right? Wrong. Renji and Rukia are clearly shown as children in Rukongai before developing spiritual power, aging slightly, and going off to the Shinigami Academy. They're now portrayed even older. Which is WEIRD because EVERYONE ELSE is ALWAYS SHOWN at the same age.

What's ironic is that most of the inconsistencies in fantasy-related television and media are often explained away by ~~*MAGIC!*~~, and in Bleach, a series that is basically about magic, a lot of inconsistencies can be explained away by ~~*SCIENCE!*~~, on te parts of either Uruhara, Aizen, or even Kurotsuchi.

 

[fade]

Not to geek out too much, but they've addressed this issue directly in the series. He's a prodigy, and his is young by shinigami standard. It's been mentioned that shinigami age much more slowly than humans, but they do age. I don't know his age, but I think that Yoroichi said it took 10 years of training normally (+ experience). Rukia isn't much older in appearance, and I think she's what 120 something? Finally, he hasn't finished his bankai training. As Shunsui (the coolest character in the series) mentions, Hitsugaya's bankai is incomplete.

 

[Gusto]

That sounds plausible.

THAT SAID, if Ichigo joins one more faction, I will flip my shit.

Human, shinigami, hollow, vaizard, etc. I'm waiting for his quincy powers to manifest.

Buhh.

Granted I love Bleach back when I first got into it and through the Soul Society arc and all that and now I'm just reading it for completion's sake, but that series is so goddamned frustrating.

 

[fade]

That I whole heartedly agree with.

You joke, but it's been speculated already that his mom was a Quincy. After all, he used Uryu's soul ribbon technique to find his shinigami powers. For yet another faction, a lot of people think that Isshin is the absent King.

 

[Gusto]

Buhh.

 

[Covar]

 

[figmentPez]

Hitsugaya is a captain who, as is necessary to become a captain, attained the level on bankai. Hitsugaya looks like he's 12 goddamned years old. This can be explained two ways.

1) Hitsugaya is some kinda shinigami genius who attained the level of bankai much faster than his adult colleagues.
2 Hitsugaya is no different from the other captains, but died and came to Soul Society as a child, and you don't age when you're dead.

Those are hardly the only two possible explanations:

3) Hitsugaya had some sort of growth disorder in life, which also applies in the Soul Society. He's short and looks kid-like, despite being an adult.
4) He's an oddity of the Soul Society like Sajin Komamura (anthpomorphic wolf) or Jidanbo (32' tall). Physical appearance in the Soul Society doesn't seem to follow the same rules as in this life.

 

[Gusto]

4) He's an oddity of the Soul Society like Sajin Komamura (anthpomorphic wolf) or Jidanbo (32' tall). Physical appearance in the Soul Society doesn't seem to follow the same rules as in this life.

This doesn't make it better.

 

[figmentPez]

4) He's an oddity of the Soul Society like Sajin Komamura (anthpomorphic wolf) or Jidanbo (32' tall). Physical appearance in the Soul Society doesn't seem to follow the same rules as in this life.

This doesn't make it better.[/QUOTE]

Why not? If there are souls that are 32 foot tall giants, then why wouldn't smaller than average happen as well?

 

[Gusto]

4) He's an oddity of the Soul Society like Sajin Komamura (anthpomorphic wolf) or Jidanbo (32' tall). Physical appearance in the Soul Society doesn't seem to follow the same rules as in this life.

This doesn't make it better.[/QUOTE]

Why not? If there are souls that are 32 foot tall giants, then why wouldn't smaller than average happen as well?[/QUOTE]

Fair enough, but WHY are there souls that appear as giant men or wolfmen?! Especially when they're clearly in the minority and no one really seems to pay them any special attention. Sure, Komomura wore a weird helmet for a while because he didn't wanna show his wolf face, but its not like anyone gave a crap when he decided to stay exposed after his bucket was destroyed.

It's ridiculousness for the sake of ridiculousness.

Actually, given the stark contrast, can you really argue that maybe Hitsugaya just has a kid's appearance despite being an adult soul? Occam's Razor seems to think that's a stretch at best.

 

[Calleja]

Occam's Razor can think now? :shocked:

 

[Gusto]

Yup it's alive and anthropomorphic.

 

[figmentPez]

Fair enough, but WHY are there souls that appear as giant men or wolfmen?! Especially when they're clearly in the minority and no one really seems to pay them any special attention. Sure, Komomura wore a weird helmet for a while because he didn't wanna show his wolf face, but its not like anyone gave a crap when he decided to stay exposed after his bucket was destroyed.

It's ridiculousness for the sake of ridiculousness.

Actually, given the stark contrast, can you really argue that maybe Hitsugaya just has a kid's appearance despite being an adult soul? Occam's Razor seems to think that's a stretch at best.

Why do some have huge spiritual pressure and some don't? Why do some have zanpaktos and others don't? It jut seems to be the nature of the place that some people are special. Maybe being child-like in his appearance is a reflection of Hitsugaya's inner insecurities, or some other aspect of his personality.

Yes, I can argue that Hitsugaya appears to be a child while actually being an adult. There's never any mention of him being a child and, reading from a Bleach wiki, he gets annoyed at being mistaken for one. He also grew up with Momo Hinamori in the Soul Society, and she's an adult, so I don't see why she would be while he wasn't. To quote the wiki "When Momo had been in the Shinigami Academy for 5 years, he began to notice how he hadn't grown an inch." The wiki also says that he's the youngest captain in the history of the Soul Society, but that doesn't mean he's actually a child.

 

[fade]

I can abide the odd soul. Though I think Hitsugaya is fairly normal, and has been explained onscreen. What I don't get are the Zanpakutous. What are they supposed to be? It's not really necessary for the story, but it is a curiosity. At first, I thought they were a fraction of the wielder's soul, but the internal world sequences seem to refute that. And now (I must nerdily admit to reading some spoilers) in the very latest chapter it seems

Spoiler

Zangetsu once belonged to Aizen (oh and Aizen is Isshin's brother)

. What the hell? That certainly means their separate from the user. Are they some sort of familiar?

 

[Gusto]

Fine.

Bleach is still silly as hell.

Also you'll have to forgive me if I don't believe what somebody on a wiki has to say. If it's not apparent from reading the series proper, then it's fanon.

 

[Element 117]

ohh man anime nerd rage is usually the best.

+10 rep.

 

[Gusto]

ohh man anime nerd rage is usually the best.

+10 rep.[/QUOTE]

Does it reflect poorly on me that I'm arguing very specific crap from the series that makes me NOT a fan of it?

I don't even know what side I'm on here anymore, if any.

 

[Calleja]

I still like Saint Seiya.

 

[figmentPez]

Fine.

Bleach is still silly as hell.

Damn straight it's silly. Toshiro being a white Gary Coleman is just one of the less strange bit. There are a lot more puzzling aspects out there.

Also you'll have to forgive me if I don't believe what somebody on a wiki has to say. If it's not apparent from reading the series proper, then it's fanon.

It's all cited with issue and page number, and once they mentioned it I did recall a scene where Hitsugaya was annoyed at being mistaken for a child in the anime. It was in an episode where he was an Ichigo's school and someone thought he was a grade schooler. He got pissed at that. As for the other points, I don't specifically remember them, but I don't see how they're fan interpretation, there are screencaps of him and Momo growing up.

 

[Gusto]

What I mean is the fanon is open to interpretation. Toshiro getting angry because he's mistaken for a gradeschooler seemed like he was upset at being disrespected, as he's a captain in high standing.

And yeah, Momo's older than Toshiro but I figured it was by like maybe 5-7 years. Even Renji looks like he's in his early 20s, and Rukia looks like maybe 17.

 

[Null]

I don't think about it. I just enjoy it for what it is, and the character designs. And the reason Tite Kubo has the nickname he does. The cosplay for Bleach characters is often really well done.

 

[figmentPez]

And yeah, Momo's older than Toshiro but I figured it was by like maybe 5-7 years. Even Renji looks like he's in his early 20s, and Rukia looks like maybe 17.

Aside from Yamamoto do any of the Captains look like they're the hundreds of years old necessary to achieve bankai? I wouldn't take appearance as an indication of age in Bleach.

 

[Gusto]

Well clearly not but THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING.

We've SEEN Byakuya, Rukia and Renji age while in the afterlife, but it's clear that Yamamoto hasn't changed at ALL in at least 110 years.

So which is it!? Or do people get to pick (at least subconciously) what they look like? Also disproven, as it was joked that Kenpachi spends hours doing his hair with the bells, people are scarred, and why would Komomura hide his appearance if it's what he wanted.

Buhh.

So yeah I tend to get a little nerdragey when creators do shit just for the sake of doing it and it gets super-conflicty.

 

[AshburnerX]

Komomura is the guy with the Badger face, right? Isn't it explicitly stated that he was re-incarnated and that he came back like that?

 

[Element 117]

ohh man anime nerd rage is usually the best.

+10 rep.[/QUOTE]

Does it reflect poorly on me that I'm arguing very specific crap from the series that makes me NOT a fan of it?

I don't even know what side I'm on here anymore, if any.[/QUOTE]

NER-

HEY

SHUT UP AND PAINT

 

[LordRendar]

WHen can we see Capt. Kyouraku's Bankai?


on another note,watched a marathon session of Toradora! yesterday.It was good fun.

 

[Iaculus]

Aye, Toradora was one of those shows where after watching the first couple of episodes, I couldn't have believed that I'd become as invested in it as I was by the end. But I did. And actually sniffled a bit at the finale. Huh.

As for more recent stuff, Durarara's finale was pretty good (though Izaya still needs to get what's coming to him), and Heroman is still some very solid shonen.

 

[LordRendar]

Aye, Toradora was one of those shows where after watching the first couple of episodes, I couldn't have believed that I'd become as invested in it as I was by the end. But I did. And actually sniffled a bit at the finale. Huh.

As for more recent stuff, Durarara's finale was pretty good (though Izaya still needs to get what's coming to him), and Heroman is still some very solid shonen.

The ending of Durarara did seem kinda rushed.The Motorcycle Police was introduced,but got less than 2 Mins of screentime (I swear that guy reminds me of a more grizzled version from that cop in "You're Under Arrest) and what is gonna happen to Celtys head now that Izaya has it?So many questions left unanswered.On the plus note,the OP music was one of the best I heard in a long time.

 

[Iaculus]

Yeah, it seems a given that they're angling for a second season. Looks like they're going to get it, too.

I'd suspect that that's where the motorbike cop and Shinra's dad are going to start becoming relevant - they seem to be the second half of Season 1's equivalent to Shizuo in the first half. Brief cameos setting the stage for later goodness.

Gotta say, though, we desperately need some more Mikado-related badassery in Season 2. Achilles did not properly emerge from his tent this time round.