Digital vs Traditional Print: This time it's personal.

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Espy

Espy

Wow, great discussion so far.

Here's where I fall on the digital vs everything else battle: I only recently started reading ebooks on my iPod touch. And I love it. It's small and easy to hold (even in the bathtub, it's perfect and I can use my other hand for grabbing that bottle of beer that's a must for a good bath/reading time) and it's always in my pocket so when I have 5 minutes in line I can read. I will upgrade to either a Kindle or an iPad at some point but for now this is great. I love that I can stop cluttering up my space with books and just hold on to the nice hardbacks I want to keep around. I've boxed up 4 giant boxes of books to get rid of and I still have 3 bookshelves packed FYI, so I likes me my paper books.
But at some point it just felt right to get rid of some of them and start buying ebooks. I think many bookstores will survive B&N seems to be doing good and with the Nook they are on the right track to survive.

As far as TV goes? Between Hulu Plus, Netflix and other sources for digital content we have no cable or even basic TV. We are 100% non-traditional tv watchers now and I love it. It's cheaper and we have more control over stuff.
 
HCGLNS

HCGLNS

"No! Don't eat Mommy's Kobo!" Is a pretty common phrase in my house. Eibooks don't stand up well to toddlers. My little girl barfed all over my hardcover book and it cleaned right up, Gramma's Kindle didn't fare as well.
 
GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
HCGLNS said:
"No! Don't eat Mommy's Kobo!" Is a pretty common phrase in my house. Eibooks don't stand up well to toddlers. My little girl barfed all over my hardcover book and it cleaned right up, Gramma's Kindle didn't fare as well.
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I have a production element here at work titled "non-stop toddler." Listening to it is the cutest, most effective form of birth control I can think of.

M_NonStopToddler_138Gb_60A.mp3
 

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Dei

Dei

I was a "I like to hold real books" person, until I really started using a Kindle. Then I started remembering all the really annoying things about books that I didn't have when holding a Kindle. (Much less awkward to hold one handed, way easier to carry in my purse, since I read huge thick books, etc)
 
Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

I like a chunk of dead tree in my hands. With words in ink on it.

I don't think Borders went out of business because of digital books; I think they went out of business because their pricing couldn't compete with Amazon. I'd find stuff there and even with a 30% off coupon, Amazon still had it cheaper. Until the going out of business sale, at least.
 
David

David

Agreeing with Espy on everything about the iPod touch. That plus, and I know this is bad of me, the fact that I now have the option to illegally download books rather than pay the cash for them at B&N or get on the months-long waitlist for any of the ones I really want from the library has gotten me to read far more than I would have been otherwise.

That said, I would like both ebooks and regular books to remain common options. I love the aesthetic value of being able to have shelves of books lining the walls. Plus there are just some hurdles to ebooks that I don't see being overcome even in 50 years. Namely:

-DRM. When I DO legitimately download a book that isn't in public domain, that book is locked to whatever service I purchase it on. If I lose or break my ipod, any book I've bought on iTunes so far is simply gone until I buy a new iPod, since they don't allow their books to be read on the computer yet. Sort of the same with Nooks and Kindles, only they do have software for everything (except for each other's devices). I don't like that I can't buy one ebook file and read it on whatever reader I damn well please.

-I don't like library downloads. I hate the Overdrive app my branch requires, which seems to crash/randomly close a lot. And I find it incredibly stupid that the digital files can only be checked out to one reader at a time and have to be waitlisted the same as a hard copy. That seems to me like it completely defeats the purpose of the library going digital. I know that's another licensing issue and not the library's fault, but it's still ridiculous.
 
Chad Sexington

Chad Sexington

Another thing. Sharing. I love sharing books with people and talking about them later. I can't share an ereader (because there goes everything I'm currently reading, too), but I can totally give you my copy of The Man Who Was Thursday while I keep reading my things. With an ereader I have to encourage you to buy the book on your own, which you may not be able/willing to do. I think people are much more likely to read something someone physically hands them, partly just because it is there, and partly because the physical object represents something your friend wants to share with you and carries some emotional weight.

Unless you're a heartless monster.
 
Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

Chad Sexington said:
Another thing. Sharing. I love sharing books with people and talking about them later. I can't share an ereader (because there goes everything I'm currently reading, too), but I can totally give you my copy of The Man Who Was Thursday while I keep reading my things. With an ereader I have to encourage you to buy the book on your own, which you may not be able/willing to do. I think people are much more likely to read something someone physically hands them, partly just because it is there, and partly because the physical object represents something your friend wants to share with you and carries some emotional weight.

Unless you're a heartless monster.
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The kindle can do sharing to another persons kindle account
 
Shegokigo

Shegokigo

As for the DRM issue, there's a very simple fix: Buy it to support the writer, then "aquire" it on tech to use it no matter where you read it. I'm currently reading my Warcraft novel I bought on paperback that I "aquired" by other means to read on my work computer in PDF format.
 
M

makare

well just remember that even if you bought it in one form that does not cover all other forms. It is still a violation of copyright.
 
GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
makare said:
well just remember that even if you bought it in one form that does not cover all other forms. It is still a violation of copyright.
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Some laws need to be broken, and that's one of them. (another is 55 mph highway speed limits)
 
Espy

Espy

Makare bring up an interesting point: How do people feel about dling a digital version of a book you already own?

As to the pricing thing: HGGLN's, I wouldn't claim that digital took down borders, but it's clearly a part of it. It's a big part of why B&N has survived. I remember though, going into a Barnes and Noble, with my iPod, asking where the big pack of the Song of Ice and Fire was and how much and they said, right here, it's 39.99 or whatever. I pulled up amazon and they had it, brand new, no shipping (I'm prime) for 18.99. I told the guy no thanks and he looked at my iPod and said, "You are looking at Amazon huh?" with a defeated look. I said, "Yup." and walked out. I did not real bad either.
 
GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
I've long been a fan of sending musicians a few bucks in the mail while "pirating" their music. They make more money from me a dozen times over than if I'd actually bought it.
 
M

makare

I have no problem downloading stuff I don't own so I certainly don't see a problem dling stuff I do. But it is the law.
 
Espy

Espy

I don't want to get to lost in the copyright, etc, stuff but I guess I'm a lot less righteous about people downloading an ebook of something they spent money on already than just randomly dling music and stuff. Notably if the regular ebooks are filled with DRM. Either I own it or I don't.
 
Mathias

Mathias

I like the feel of a real book, but e-readers are much nicer. The argument for the tub is moot. If you drop a book into the tub, it gets ruined just as well.
 
Espy

Espy

Mathias said:
I like the feel of a real book, but e-readers are much nicer. The argument for the tub is moot. If you drop a book into the tub, it gets ruined just as well.
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Well, a 20 dollar book is a lot more replaceable then a 600 dollar iPad or 200 dollar Kindle. Just saying.
 
M

makare

I kind of like that my very favorite books are all a little fucked up from being in the tub. Wrinkled from having gotten wet. It's a very tactile reminder of how much I enjoy them.
 
AshburnerX

AshburnerX

I really just don't want to make a huge investment on a Kindle or anything right now. I prefer hardbacks, but the price point is basically all that's keeping me from getting one.
 
Shegokigo

Shegokigo

It's the law is a weak argument. It can be proven that most people break like 4-5 laws a day and not know it.

Anyway, the way I look at it, is much like ROM downloading issues. If you already own the game, there's no legal persecution for you having the ROM.
 
M

makare

well ignorance of the law is no excuse you know.

(I was going to say that in latin but I am not that pompous.. right now.)
 
Shegokigo

Shegokigo

You're right, but like many of the officers on the board will tell you: Not all enforcable laws are enforced/cared about. Why you even bothered to state that after you clearly said you already break it, is beyond me. We're aware it's the law, we still do our part to help the artist, we just don't give a shit about restrictions that alot of distributors want to put on everything. DRM, tech restrictions, etc.
 
M

makare

Because if they actually do decide to enforce it the "but lots of people do it, uh i didnt know it was illegal uh it isn't a big deal" defense isn't going to help you.
 
Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

AshburnerX said:
I really just don't want to make a huge investment on a Kindle or anything right now. I prefer hardbacks, but the price point is basically all that's keeping me from getting one.
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I hate how if you get one Ereader, you're kind of stuck with it, or else have to buy them all again on the new one.
 
Shegokigo

Shegokigo

makare said:
Because if they actually do decide to enforce it the "but lots of people do it, uh i didnt know it was illegal uh it isn't a big deal" defense isn't going to help you.
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Like the millions of people they were going to crack down on for mp3/movie pirating right?

They'll go after the system giving out the illegal material, not the downloader. The few they ever did go after, was a scare tactic that never proceeded past those people. So yeah, it doesn't matter and to bring it up was pointless.

@Escu: That's exactly what I mean about "aquiring" a copy after fully purchasing it. So you don't have to worry about restrictions like that.
 
M

makare

Damn it I forgot that on this forum we only talk about serious issues and things of dire importance.
My bad.
 
ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

As far as legal arguments go, though, I've wondered something. Suppose someone used the arugment of "I've already bought this several times already! I went to concerts/theatre. I bought it on tape and later again on CD/DVD. You've already got more than enough of my money."

It wouldn't work so well for pirates who don't pay money for anything at all, but I'm thinking more for myself, where the vast majority of digital movies I have are ones that I've owned or paid for in different mediums through my life. Of course, providing proof that I've seen most of the Nightmare on Elm St. movies in theatre, along with owning them on VHS and DVD at one time, would be tough.
 
M

makare

That was my point as illogical as it may seem no matter how many times you have paid for it and in what forms, you are still not entitled to it in other forms. Personally I think this will change in the near future because the cost and trouble of dealing with violators is too much. Also it is just another example of punishing the people who actually do the right thing. You bought the product why not get to use it, for yourself, as you see fit?
 
ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Exactly. Though, admittedly, I don't own any copies of, say, Nightmare on Elm St. anymore. That probably breaks my argument a bit. I don't need the bells and whistles of special features, just the movie. And I've paid for that multiple times, both from buying copies of it in different forms, as well as renting the hell out of them multiple times throughout grade school. To say that I owe them more money is ridiculous.

If it's a brand new movie that I didn't see in theatres, didn't buy or didn't rent? Sure, then they're entitled.
 
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