Digital vs Traditional Print: This time it's personal.

[strawman]

no matter how many times you have paid for it and in what forms, you are still not entitled to it in other forms

That's not strictly true. There is a gray area where you are allowed to transform the work into a format you can consume. For instance, the blind use machines that turn books into spoken audio, and even if the audio book exists, they are still allowed to do this transformation. Because of this, there is a gray area where you might be allowed to purchase a work, then obtain, through a third party, a pre-transformed version of the same work, especially in cases where you cannot transform it yourself without great expense, or cases where you cannot consume the original form.

This is one of the reasons those who created DVD cracking programs were not always successfully prosecuted - there were some computer systems that were not able to play DVDs and there was no commercial, licensed software available for these computers, even though the computers had DVD drives. Legally a user could use the software on their computer to consume the DVD contents without having to purchase new equipment (DVD player and TV).

In general, you are correct, but there are situations where your statement is not true, and there's still a rather large gray area between the rights of the owner versus the rights of the consumer.

 

[makare]

but is having a machine read a book really another form of the book or just another way of accessing the original book?

 

[strawman]

but is having a machine read a book really another form of the book or just another way of accessing the original book?

An argument for the ages, to be sure.

In many cases, one is allowed to make and keep "backup" copies of copyrighted materials. People don't think about it for books, because they aren't easy to copy, but legally one could put each page of their book on a copy machine and store the result (or original) in a secure location while using the original (or copy) for the intended use.

The arguments, however, usually revolve around distribution. It's not making a personal copy that is the problem - it's giving that copy away.

In other words, if I buy a book, then obtain a digital copy from another source, I haven't done anything illegal. The source I got the digital copy from, however, may have violated copyright.

...but I'm getting off track here.

I've recently rid myself of a few shelf fulls of books - mostly technical - and pay a monthly fee to safari books online for unlimited access to their digital copies of their technical books. I still print a few things out, but between a multi-monitor setup, and the iPad, I am coming towards going completely digital.

Even with three 24" monitors and two 17" monitors and the iPad at my workstation, though, I still don't have enough space to work as fast as I prefer, so I still print some things out - usually only a dozen or so pages at a time though. I prefer that to having the whole 400 page book or manual in front of me though - too much desk space, not easy to move around, and can't look at 5 different sections of the book at once. Gimme a pdf and I can see as much or as little of it as I want at any given time.

I've recently read a few books on the iPad (Old Man's War pdf is free online, and it's a good scifi book) and I really enjoy it. The iPad is heavier than a cheap paperback, but that's the only downside. The upsides are being able to use the iPad for a variety of things when I'm not reading and not having to lug the book around with me (which means I can read it in small bites anywhere, such as the line in the grocery store). I always have the iPad with me.

So while I really enjoy the feel of a paper book in hand, I think I'd rather have it all digitally now.

 

[makare]

Since we are talking about this I thought it would be a good spot to mention one of the funny things from my Intellectual Property class this semester.
The prof wanted us to get this book called the pirates dilemma. He said it is downloadable and you can pay whatever you want for it, even 0. So we all got the book and went to class. Then he asked what we paid. Most people paid 0 a few paid 5 (the actual asking price) some paid 1 and some paid 3. Also in our class a chick paid for it and he said in 4 semesters of teaching the class she was the first woman to pay for it. I thought that was interesting. Although I still thought why pay for something you are allowed to get for free but everyone has their own feelings about that kind of thing.

 

[rabbitgod]

As far as periodicals go, I prefer digital. I would pay so much money to get my National Geographic as a digital only version. I just can't justify the waste of production on a periodical I might read cover to cover.

I'm not sure about digital books. I haven't really tried digital versions. I think I might be into it.

 

[Biannoshufu]

I dislike it when people say "acquire" when the fact is unless it was given as a gift by the creator, it was stolen. I don't particularly care if people do it, I just wish they wouldn't be dishonest about it. It's the same sort of white-wash speech politicians used to candy up a shitty policy that screws others over.

 

[ThatNickGuy]

Ninja'd ya a page ago, Tinster.

 

[Allen who is Quiet]

Nice repost, Tin.

 

[Allen who is Quiet]

Well Tin, I hope you've learned a valuable lesson. It's not okay to be unoriginal over the internet.

 

[ThatNickGuy]

Tin, I am disappoint.

 

[Shegokigo]

I dislike it when people say "acquire" when the fact is unless it was given as a gift by the creator, it was stolen. I don't particularly care if people do it, I just wish they wouldn't be dishonest about it. It's the same sort of white-wash speech politicians used to candy up a shitty policy that screws others over.

Yeah well when you've had an investigation of enforcement agencies tap you, you tend to be a bit more careful with your words.

 

[Covar]

An argument for the ages, to be sure.

In many cases, one is allowed to make and keep "backup" copies of copyrighted materials. People don't think about it for books, because they aren't easy to copy, but legally one could put each page of their book on a copy machine and store the result (or original) in a secure location while using the original (or copy) for the intended use.

The arguments, however, usually revolve around distribution. It's not making a personal copy that is the problem - it's giving that copy away.

In other words, if I buy a book, then obtain a digital copy from another source, I haven't done anything illegal. The source I got the digital copy from, however, may have violated copyright.

...but I'm getting off track here.

I've recently rid myself of a few shelf fulls of books - mostly technical - and pay a monthly fee to safari books online for unlimited access to their digital copies of their technical books. I still print a few things out, but between a multi-monitor setup, and the iPad, I am coming towards going completely digital.

Even with three 24" monitors and two 17" monitors and the iPad at my workstation, though, I still don't have enough space to work as fast as I prefer, so I still print some things out - usually only a dozen or so pages at a time though. I prefer that to having the whole 400 page book or manual in front of me though - too much desk space, not easy to move around, and can't look at 5 different sections of the book at once. Gimme a pdf and I can see as much or as little of it as I want at any given time.

I've recently read a few books on the iPad (Old Man's War pdf is free online, and it's a good scifi book) and I really enjoy it. The iPad is heavier than a cheap paperback, but that's the only downside. The upsides are being able to use the iPad for a variety of things when I'm not reading and not having to lug the book around with me (which means I can read it in small bites anywhere, such as the line in the grocery store). I always have the iPad with me.

So while I really enjoy the feel of a paper book in hand, I think I'd rather have it all digitally now.

I'm kind of surprised by that. My technical books are still the only things I have to have in paper. I've just found it easier to search through an actual book rather than deal with PDFs and the like.

That said I love my Kindle for reading fiction. When I don't need to go through a book like it's a chose your own adventure that device is divine. Especially since it syncs to my phone and iPad.

I don't read magazines so I couldn't care less about them. I enjoy supporting my LCS, and collecting comics, so I stick to buying the print.

 

[Shegokigo]

That's pretty interesting actually. Imagine a Choose Your Own Adventure book, with clickable links at the bottom of every page, so that it took you directly to the page you chose? That'd be fantastic.

 

[SpecialKO]

If Amazon (or B&N or Apple for that matter) offered a way to trade-in physical copies for ebook copies for free (or even just severely discounted), they'd have me as a customer for life.

But there's no effin' way I'm paying full price, even ebook price, to re-own something.

 

[Shegokigo]

So you'd keep VHS tapes over DVD/BluRay copies?

 

[Ravenpoe]

So you'd keep VHS tapes over DVD/BluRay copies?

Addendum: you don't play nintendo games?

*goes back to playing starfox 64 3D

 

[makare]

That doesn't seem like an accurate comparison. VHS to dvd is often a big boost in sound and audio quality. A physical book is on par with the electronic to most people. Not to me though Kindle is nowhere near as nice as a physical book as far as page quality goes and pdfs are punishment from the gods.

 

[Covar]

One thing I love about my Kindle that I forgot to mention. The built in dictionary. Being able to look up a word without even having to leave the page is just awesome.

 

[makare]

I would love to have my text books on kindle. Those things weigh a ton and anything I lost in the format change would be worth not having to carry them around.

 

[fade]

One thing I love about my Kindle that I forgot to mention. The built in dictionary. Being able to look up a word without even having to leave the page is just awesome.

Macs have been able to do since like 1989.

(Derail: Every time the media or users rave about some "new" feature in their product that Apple implemented two decades ago, a Macalope gets its wings.)

Just kidding, just kidding.

 

[Covar]

Yes, but it's a new feature for my books.

 

[Shegokigo]

Addendum: you don't play nintendo games?

*goes back to playing starfox 64 3D

I don't play them on a NES, that's for sure.

That doesn't seem like an accurate comparison. VHS to dvd is often a big boost in sound and audio quality. A physical book is on par with the electronic to most people. Not to me though Kindle is nowhere near as nice as a physical book as far as page quality goes and pdfs are punishment from the gods.

I wasn't making a comparison to quality, I was making a comparison to repurchasing something you already own in a different medium.

 

[makare]

My point was the why you might repurchase are different. There is more reason to be willing to repurchase dvds than ebooks.

 

[Denbrought]

That's pretty interesting actually. Imagine a Choose Your Own Adventure book, with clickable links at the bottom of every page, so that it took you directly to the page you chose? That'd be fantastic.

This is a very fun CYOA series, available free and very fun. I recommend it: Project Aon - Lone Wolf

 

[Espy]

Man... I miss choose your own adventure books.

 

[fade]

I like to think of tvtropes.org as the modern choose-your-own-adventure.

If you do it on kindle, how do you put all your fingers in the pages to backtrack your choices when you die?

 

[makare]

I had a Supergirl choose your own adventure but that
is the only one ive seen

 

[@Li3n]

but is having a machine read a book really another form of the book or just another way of accessing the original book?

Doesn't really matter, as according to most copyright you're not buying the physical writing inside the book, but the right to read the work...

But don't worry, in 10 more year i'm sure they'll manage to make it so that you'll only be allowed to read something once with each purchase.
Added at: 21:06

So you'd keep VHS tapes over DVD/BluRay copies?

Ahem: https://www.halforums.com/threads/noooooooo-george-lucas-is-at-it-again.26159/page-4

 

[Shegokigo]

Yeah, you'll notice I refused to purchase the new copies because of the copious amounts of changes. Therefore it's not the original work, therefore not a valid counter-argument. Thanks for trying though.

 

[AshburnerX]

There is also precedent for owning the original copies of books, that have been unchanged by dozens of editors over the years to make the titles more acceptable and palatable to modern readers. Most people prefer to have the original story and only want updated copies if said copies have additional content, not content removed.

 

[Biannoshufu]

Yeah well when you've had an investigation of enforcement agencies tap you, you tend to be a bit more careful with your words.

Suddenly you're making moral justifications for your behavior now? And, totally in the tinfoil hat section I'm guessing that if your ass is tapped by los federales on the net they probably have a good idea of what's on your HD.

 

[Shegokigo]

I'm just not going to say anymore, for my own good.

 

[North_Ranger]

I was going to come in and offer a perhaps old-fashioned preference for books over digital, but I think I'll just pull up a chair and watch the ensuing lesbian fight.

Now if only we could have some mud in here...

 

[GasBandit]

I've stolen books. Both E- and paper. I have no regrets. Just puttin' that out there.

 

[makare]

you badass