Like a cell phone in a bomb shelter, I don't get signals (dating advice)

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Every time someone gives you advice, you say "Well the problem is..." and give us some new information, which really looks like you're trying to find excuses to put it off.

Watch this. I want to buy a new watch. It's $100, I have $150. The thing is, I wanted to go to a fancy restaurant, which could cost $60. So I can't buy the watch.

-But Leigh, you say, why not just go to a less expensive restaurant?

-Well, the thing is, I promised my friend I'd go to his restaurant.

-But Leigh, you say, why not just go to his restaurant next week?

-Well, the problem is he's going to be out of town next week.

-But Leigh, you say, why not go when he's back in town for a welcome-home dinner! It'd be perfect.

-Well the problem is, he's allergic to all foods everywhere, he owns the restaurant ironically.

See! I can find a reason not to do stuff too. It's fun!
 
Maybe it's because I tend to feel any girl I like enough to be interested in could so very much better than me.

Maybe it is because my sister, a huge nerd, has given me the exact same advice and I'm gonna say she wasn't trying to give me a hint. Why would Mads be different?

Maybe it is because, based on all our interactions up to now, her having romantic interest in me makes less logical sense than a David Lynch film.

Maybe it is because I am utterly terrified at the prospect of things going well and having the sexually experienced young woman paired up with the young male virgin who has only made out with one girl.

Maybe it is because, out of the ten girls I have pursued since the age of five, precisely one has expressed any romantic interest in me.

Maybe it is because only one girl in my 16 years of liking girls has ever had any interest in me whatsoever.

Maybe I just have serious self esteem issues after a lifetime of rejection and bullying from peers that I refuse to talk to a professional about because my father, who had a shitty home life pretty much until he married my mom, managed to be knocking on sixty before seeing a therapist.

Maybe it is all of those above. Look, I get that dating is easy for some people. My buddy The Pirate King has been dateless with exceeding rarity in his life. But it is not that way for me. It just doesn't happen. I don't get that first look, much less the second or third. So this, the possibility that a good looking, intelligent, funny, fascinating, and nerdy-as-hell chick who I made a shit first impression on is even remotely into me, is alien to me. It is beyond my fucking comprehension. I would deal better if the fucking TARDIS materialized in the middle of my apartment and Matt Smith stepped out to ask for my help fighting General Zod. I could understand that. This is beyond my fucking comprehension. It just don't happen to me.
 
Whoa whoa whoa mate. I'm saying it's easy or that there aren't your-own-life factors to overcome. I am saying don't make it harder on yourself by finding reasons not to act. It's a really easy game to play and you always beat yourself at it, which is to say, you always lose.

Trust me. I'm a former goddamn elite player.
 
B

Biannoshufu

Stop thinking.

It's like swimming. or bike riding. Don't think. Don't over think. Just do it already.
 
Whoa whoa whoa mate. I'm saying it's easy or that there aren't your-own-life factors to overcome. I am saying don't make it harder on yourself by finding reasons not to act. It's a really easy game to play and you always beat yourself at it, which is to say, you always lose.
Taking action can get you the big money and the fabulous prizes, but it can also get you:

1) Banished from someone's life (Andrea).
2) Blindsided and dumped after two and a half years of dating, fucking you up for six months (Sam).
3) Kicked out of your circle of friends when they must choose, you or your crush (Aria).
4) Nearly a year of awkwardness when things don't work out (Courtney).
5) Still friends with a person like reasonable adults (Mrs. M, in 8th grade incidentally).

Whereas not acting gets you:

1) Mild regret (Alison).

So...yeah. Many ways asking someone out goes wrong. Not doing so only goes wrong one way.

Stop thinking.

It's like swimming. or bike riding. Don't think. Don't over think. Just do it already.
I'm an avid bicyclist and I am constantly thinking about my physical relationship to cars, pedestrians, where I'm going, what I'm gonna do when i get there, etc, etc while out riding. Not best example.
 
Meh, either you ask her or you don't. Get her number and call her or do it face to face if you want an honest answer. I get being afraid or nervous man, believe me, I GET it. But sometimes you gotta realize, hey, she opened a door if I don't step through it SOON it will close because she won't think I'm interested.

Hell, even if you are totally misreading it and she shoots you down just shrug it off. There are lots of girls out there who like nerdy guys. Even awkward nervous ones.

Promise. :)
 
B

Biannoshufu

So you settle into not asking. You settle into not dating, because risk always turns bad. Then thirty years fly by, and you look back at all the things you didn't do. Really?
 
Hell, even if you are totally misreading it and she shoots you down just shrug it off. There are lots of girls out there who like nerdy guys. Even awkward nervous ones.
Shrug off never being able to show my face at my best pal's apartment again? Shrug off the fact I will probably lose the nine comics ($24.10 worth) I loaned her when she stops speaking to me? Shrug off undoing all the work I've done to make up for a bad first impression? Shrug off losing someone who has the makings of being a pretty cool friend?

You guys, the whole "lose a friend, at least for a while, because you dared ask them out" thing hasn't happened to me once. It hasn't happened twice. It has happened three times. One of them was legit nutty, but the other two were normal. I just cause that reaction in people.

So you settle into not asking. You settle into not dating, because risk always turns bad. Then thirty years fly by, and you look back at all the things you didn't do. Really?
Being alone on my own terms seems somewhat more preferable to a life of hope-despair cycles, yeah.
 
You're the biggest, perhaps only naysayer in this thread! THE ONLY PERSON AGAINST YOU IS YOU.

Seriously, the more you build this up, the worse it will be, the more impossible it will feel. I promise, no matter how long you agonize over it, she's only going to hear one question: Would You Like To Go Out With Me Sometime?

And she's just gonna say yes or no and not think more of it. If yes, it'll be, "a few dates, figure out how things feel"; if no, it'll be, "it just wasn't right right now." She's not gonna overanalyze and hyperconsider everything like you're doing. The idea that you can't show yourself at your friend's place is, well. Silly. She's your friend. Sure in a few months, whether successful or no, she might tease you about it, but if she's really your friend she'll love you, she'll love the kind of person who was willing to put himself out there. And this other person, if she's a reasonable human being, will be flattered, even if she doesn't say yes, and it'll be bearable after a few weeks.
 
Oh man this went pretty much where I figured it was going to after the replies in the first page. Now it's going to turn into "Make me feel better, even though I'm not going to do a damn thing about my problem" thread.

I should have put money on this.

Am I being a bitch? No, Norris already chose that life for himself a long time ago. He beats himself up since noonelse is going to. I can tell you this RIGHT NOW, you'll never have a successful attempt at asking a girl out, MUCH less having a relationship at all until you stop treating yourself like the pile of refuse you seem to think you are. Maybe you are, I don't know you personally, but even the biggest pieces of shit (Those ugly assholes that beat their gorgeous wives and innocent kids mercilessly, those are the people that should have your life outlook) have the confidence in themselves to find someone to give a shit about them romantically, personally and for their miserable lives. You honestly think you're worth less than them? I don't even think Mathias and Jay combined could beat you down worse than you already have.
 
Holy cow man. I remember feeling the same way you did back when I was a teenager. Let me tell you something, and I'm speaking from experience here: just fucking do it.

I used to freak out. I used to have self-esteem issues. I used to get a crush on a girl and then convince myself why she's too good for me and why it would never work blah blah blah. This one girl came along, dropping hint after hint after hint. I was into her but scared shitless. Finally I talked myself into a corner, took a deep breath (seriously), and just asked her out. It wasn't contrived or a super-sexy-smooth approach, either. I just said "Do you want to go out to a movie with me?" I was terrified, and I was shaking a little from the adrenaline. You want to know what she said?

Well too bad, it doesn't matter what she said. The moral of the story is that from that point on I learned that I have nothing to gain by panicking and doubting myself. It was just like standing on the side of a pool worrying about whether the water was too cold or too hot. I learned it was best to dive in and deal with whatever comes next.

This is like going on your very first roller coaster. You get to the top of the first rise, and you start to freak out. You don't know what will happen next and it scares the shit out of you. Then the ride keeps going, and you find out that it's fun. Or, at the very least, you find out that it wasn't that bad. Right now you're on that coaster, but you keep screaming for it to stop and keep trying to get out of your seat. Don't. Just go with the flow.

She'll say yes, or she'll say no. That's it. Maybe, MAYBE, she will get awkward. MAYBE. But even if she does, you will have gained the valuable experience. But that's only if you act. Standing still like you are gets you NOTHING.

And don't come back at me with some sudden excuse for why it's different or my analogy sucks. I don't want to hear it and it won't change the truth. Just take a deep breath and go for it. It will all work out okay in the end.
 
Welp, I give up. Norris is just going to keep beating himself (in more ways than one) instead of at least giving it a try. I don't mean to sound like a total prick, but responding to him at this point isn't going to help. It's going to be a cycle of us saying doing and him coming up with excuses.

He's not going to do it. Let's not encourage it any further.
 
Welp, I give up. Norris is just going to keep beating himself (in more ways than one) instead of at least giving it a try. I don't mean to sound like a total prick, but responding to him at this point isn't going to help. It's going to be a cycle of us saying doing and him coming up with excuses.

He's not going to do it. Let's not encourage it any further.
Fair enough sir. If it be any consolation, I am deeply regretting starting this thread in the first place. No amount of advice can fix poor self esteem and a mild phobia of social interaction.

Give her orgasms.

Bitches love orgasms.
Wouldn't know. My ex girlfriend refused to let me make her orgasm because she was scared of her mom finding out we were fooling around.

Everyone was a noob when it comes to sex at one point or another. If it comes to that, communication is key. She also may not be as experienced as you think. Having sex for (far too) many people is just "in, out, in, out". I'd hardly call that sexual experience
Even if she's only had sex once (which I know isn't true), she's more experienced than me. Virgin males aren't known for their ability to please women, by any means. So yeah. Even if things go well, I'd probably get dumped for that.

I believe the current 'men successfully asking a girl out' ratio is 1:20. You're not doing that bad.
The important part isn't 1:10, but one per sixteen years. I will be in my mid-thirties before I get another date, if the patter holds.

Work on this. Seriously. Justifying making the same mistake because your father did it is quite stupid.
You misunderstand. My dad? He has some serious shit to be depressed about, starting with shit in his childhood and going right up to his wife of 18 years dying rather suddenly. Me? Some kids picked on me and my mom died (leaving me with a super loving and supportive dad). I've go a definite case of #firstworldproblems, Rockin' The Suburbs problems ("Y'all don't know what it's like/being male, middle class, and white").

If you don't expect it to happen to you, then yes, you may have missed countless signals over the years from girls that were interested in you but you ignored them and thus they assumed you were not interested in them.
Why does it have to be signals anyways? Why I expected, simply because I'm a dude, to make the first move? I mean, lemme put it this way - Mads (the girl in question, I just realized I never mentioned that) is a staunch feminist. She could try asking me out. I'd definitely say "yes"!

Oh man this went pretty much where I figured it was going to after the replies in the first page. Now it's going to turn into "Make me feel better, even though I'm not going to do a damn thing about my problem" thread.
Not where I had intended it to go, but yeah. :( But I did something! I messaged her! She didn't reply. It's been over a day. My usual turn around on FB messages is six hours (that means when I message Mrs. M, my sister, my GVSU friends, etc, I have reply within six hours). It is seeming more and more likely I simply misread a piece of advice I get frequently because it was a single woman who gave it.

Am I being a bitch? No, Norris already chose that life for himself a long time ago. He beats himself up since noonelse is going to. I can tell you this RIGHT NOW, you'll never have a successful attempt at asking a girl out, MUCH less having a relationship at all until you stop treating yourself like the pile of refuse you seem to think you are. Maybe you are, I don't know you personally, but even the biggest pieces of shit (Those ugly assholes that beat their gorgeous wives and innocent kids mercilessly, those are the people that should have your life outlook) have the confidence in themselves to find someone to give a shit about them romantically, personally and for their miserable lives. You honestly think you're worth less than them? I don't even think Mathias and Jay combined could beat you down worse than you already have.
The only correction I have to make is - I learned to do this so that other people can't. A bully's word cease stinging if you already recognize your own flaws. I admit, what began as a defense mechanism my have developed into something...not good, but regardless. My other defense mechanism is to simply ignore things that intimidate me and...lady parts intimidate the hell out of me, so there's that.

Anyhoo, the difference between me and those assholes? Assholes don't care if you like them. They don't give shit. At all. They are the opposite side of the spectrum from me - overly blind to any flaws or problems they might have. That is why they're successful. Confidence is sexy. People want Harrison Ford, not Woody Allen.
 
Read my old manbaw thread and learn from my mistakes.
My dream nerdy girl is with a guy that in many ways is pretty much like me... but dared to do something more than just becoming best friends with her and wondering if she liked him or not.

I made my move half a year after my window of opportunity was open.* I didn't know it, but they started dating two weeks before I did it.

*yeah, you all told me the same stuff you are telling him now, and i didn't listen.
 
Fair enough sir. If it be any consolation, I am deeply regretting starting this thread in the first place. No amount of advice can fix poor self esteem and a mild phobia of social interaction.
Dude, you're talking to the king of low self esteem. Aside from Nourah, I can't remember the last time I even went for anything with a girl. My problem is that I just assume no one would be even interested in me, so I don't even bother looking. You, though, you at least seem to have a chance with this girl.

Basically what I'm saying is this: SHIT OR GET OFF THE DAMN POT.
 
Yes, what developed as a defense mechanism is now a damaging pattern for yourself.

I say this as the husband of a Licensed Marriage & Family Therapist: You need therapy.

Thats not a slight against you, it's just what is. You need someone with some real skills to help you work through this. In no way should you consider yourself a lesser person for getting therapy. It's not there just for the crazies, it's for people who need someone to help them work through real life challenges. This seems to count. Here's a good place to start looking if you seriously want to change this pattern before it corrupts every area of your life: http://www.theravive.com/cities/locations.aspx
If you want me to lock this thread I'd be happy to do it. I'm not sure what else can be done here.
 
Ok, serious advice from me this time. See a counselor, because you've got some pretty severe anxiety and self image issues.
You sound like my friends. And the guys at FSTDT. If my dad could come away from shitty parents, hearing loss from childhood, and failing high school years to have a successful career, a beautiful wife, two pretty smart (if dorky as fuck) children, generally being the most on the ball of his siblings, and to be a great dad, then I can come away from "Walker Germs" and being bad with women to find some success. His problems? Real problems. No need for therapy until they'd weighed on him for more than four decades.

Me? No fucking need for therapy. Need for a pair of testicles, maybe.

EDIT:
I say this as the husband of a Licensed Marriage & Family Therapist: You need therapy.
And I say this as the son of a guy whose therapist flat out told him "You have a lot to be depressed about." - I don't. I'm rockin' the suburbs. Male, middle class, and white. Two (for 13 years, then one) loving parents. No real problems in life to speak of. Yes, I have some emotional issues but fuck me sideways, I'm not going to take the time a therapist could be seeing a rape survivor or a suicidal person to bitch about how the kids were mean to me in school.
 
No need for therapy until it weighed on him for four decades is not a positive. That just means he waited until his breaking point to actually do something about it. Don't repeat that mistake. There's nothing wrong with getting therapy. Believe me. I'm seeing a counsellor again now and he's thinking I was mis-diagnosed when I was 18. I've been saying I was diagnosed with Situational Depression. His thinking is that it might be Major Depression Recurrant. Possibly a form of bi-polar.

My point is this: I see a lot of myself in the things you've written. Therapy or counselling might honestly do you a world of good.
 
My point is this: I see a lot of myself in the things you've written. Therapy or counselling might honestly do you a world of good.
Every minute I spent with a therapist or counselor would be a minute they weren't spending with a rape survivor, a suicidal person, a person who had an abusive parent, someone with clinical depression, etc. Kids were mean to me in elementary and middle school, and girls don't like me romantically. My defense mechanisms need a little coaxing to shut down.

It stinks, but it doesn't suck. Therapy is for people who have suck in their life.
 
:facepalm:

You honestly don't understand therapy. You think you do, or at least you have convinced yourself of it so you don't have to deal with your issues, but you don't.

But you aren't going to be swayed so I won't argue with you about it.

Good luck.
 
Saying you don't need to see the doctor for a seemingly minor infection because there are kids with life threatening head wounds is only going to end up getting you killed.

Guess what? There are therapists who only see people with minor problems. People with "minor" self-image issues that hamper their life need therapy. You can let the infection go until you decide that it's ruined enough of your life that suddenly it's "worthy" of therapy, or you can go to the "doctor" now, get the antibiotics you need for a few weeks, and move on with your life.

If you wait until it's bad enough (and trust me, we all see that this isn't something you're going to solve on your own) that you finally see a therapist of your own volition, you'll be in therapy for years. Do it now and you might be able to get away with therapy measured in weeks and months, with occasional follow-up visits thereafter.

It's already preventing you from living a full life. You're letting your self-esteem issues prevent you from normal, human, social interaction. It's already well past the point where it's obvious you need help.

It's not a bad thing. You aren't stealing therapy from others with more serious problems. Many, many others with less severe problems are in therapy now - it's not a zero-sum game.

Don't let it fester. Don't let it prevent you from really living. Go get it checked out now.

The therapist will tell you if your problem isn't worthy of their attention. Go at least once. Explain that you've been rejected so often that you would rather live alone and depressed than try to start another relationship. Then let them decide if there's someone else they should be seeing rather than you.
 
Wouldn't know. My ex girlfriend refused to let me make her orgasm because she was scared of her mom finding out we were fooling around.
Well, now I've told you. Now that you know what to do, get out there and make it happen.

In seriousness, considering all you've said, if this girl's so great and you're this impairing, I don't think I want you with her. If she gives you a chance, this kind of worrying, nervous shit is going to occur at every step of any dating/relationship, be it time with her, what you guys do for an evening, her friends, on and on, and when she breaks up with you, all you'll have done is give the next awkward geek a harder time.

You're not going to get over this by simply "manning up" overnight, and that's pretty much the time length for your window with her. You're either going to find someone to aspire to be, or get therapy. You can do those things WHILE you're with her, and probably should if you want to show her a good time without letting your insecurities become a burden on her. Otherwise, let the window slip, and do those things anyway so you can improve yourself next time you see a girl you like.

People need counseling for different things. If you're feeling too ashamed to admit you have a problem and get help, you're going to feel ashamed if she doesn't see you that way, and you're the one who will make your friendships awkward thereon. Girls let this shit go easier than you think, but if you make it a problem, they'll let it be a problem.

Aside from your need for inspiration or therapy:
How you come off doesn't matter as much as doing the action. One asking out of mine was pretty much: "So, I wanna be friends no matter what, but, uh, would you wanna, uh, maybe go out some time?" said with scratching the back of my head nervously, probably going red in the face, and essentially smiling like a doofus. She didn't say yes because of my form--which was terrible--she said yes because I bothered to fucking ask.
 
Every minute I spent with a therapist or counselor would be a minute they weren't spending with a rape survivor, a suicidal person, a person who had an abusive parent, someone with clinical depression, etc. Kids were mean to me in elementary and middle school, and girls don't like me romantically. My defense mechanisms need a little coaxing to shut down.

It stinks, but it doesn't suck. Therapy is for people who have suck in their life.
Yeah, and I was relentlessly bullied in middle school, to the point that I had no self-esteem left. I'm seeing counseling for that.

There's counselling for everything. You're not being a hero by not getting help.

Do you always come up with excuses for everything and anything?
 
Every minute I spent with a therapist or counselor would be a minute they weren't spending with a rape survivor, a suicidal person, a person who had an abusive parent, someone with clinical depression, etc.
I mean this in the nicest possible way, that's the most bullshit answer I've ever seen.

You not dealing with your shit is not a public service. I'm sorry if this sound hostile, it really isn't meant to be, just trying to show you the absurdity of that statement.
 
The following post contains sincerity and some almost personal information. It is entirely free from sarcasm, and seems to express concern for my fellow man. I apologise in advance to letting Halforums down, and anyone offended by public displays of concern. It is also very very long.

It doesn't have to be 'therapy'. Plenty of counsellors exist who exclusively deal with self-image, so you're drawing attention away from none of those other issues, but by the by, your issues aren't minor because they significantly impact your life and ability to live it. It's really hard to see it yourself, but it's really obvious to everyone else, and I know, I know that's a hateful idea, that somehow these other people who just don't know how it feels (and they can't/don't.) somehow know what you need. But they're right.

No one is suggesting you be an arrogant prick who doesn't care what other people think, but rather that you address what makes you dislike and distrust yourself so much that you assume all other people see those things. The majority of people in that thread just see a nerd they sympathise with because they're like you, but do not have -or have overcome- their self-esteem problems. Of course we must care what some people think about us some times. But you have this cripplingly and obvious belief that all people think the same terrible things you think about yourself.

They don't.

I can't convince you of this, probably. I say this because oh my god I have been there and it is hell. But there's got to be something to grab on to. Do you confess these dark insecurities to your close real-world friends? It is hard to do, but worth it. They will take care of you. I'm going to give you some advice. Not out of certitude or arrogance, but out of pain because you say things I have said, and I believe you feel things I have felt.

Talk to your friends. Pour out your grief and ignore your shame over it. Yes, it feels selfish. Yes, it looks trivial. But look at it another way: isn't this pain making you unable to be selfless? It restricts you from offering more of yourself to others because you are so convinced that just 'being you' pushes people away. Isn't this pain preventing you from believing you can add more to the world? First world problems, okay. Fine. But they're problems preventing you from making more of the world, not to sound trite. I'm not saying you'll fly to Africa and cure disease and stop hunger. But you'll contribute to people's lives, you'll make things better around you, but only if you think you can do those things. And you can.

I don't really know why you started the thread. Did you want advice? Or did you want us to confirm your beliefs about yourself. Some of us have been sarcastic (myself included) in our advice, but we've all had the same belief: that you're as good as person as any and you should just ask her out! I stand by this. I think it will build your self-confidence, no matter her answer.

And find therapy. Start with your friends, but find help. What you're feeling is wholly legitimate and I will never say it's 'wrong', but it is beyond normal anxiety. Whether it's a chemical thing and they can give you something, or it's just a psychological thing, you are experiencing a depth of stress over this (and, I will extrapolate, to many other things) that is not reasonable, and it hurts you. It shows.

Other random advice: limit your Facebook use. Insist on texting/calling friends. Obviously Facebook's a useful tool, but it's self-aggrandizing and I find it undermines more than reinforces relationships (by which I mean general acquaintance/friendships, not necessarily romantic). Do things like make excuses to see friends, even ones you don't consider close. Get coffee with someone you only 'know a little' once every two months. Just for variety. You'll feel good learning about someone/telling them about you. When you're sad or lonely, talk to someone. Just vent. Your friends love you, they'll listen. You'll be surprised at how short a time you can know someone before they'll be willing to listen to a lot of stuff you think is scary, stressful and bizarre. The closest friends will simply refuse to let you feel lonely. This isn't a conscious effort on their part. You'll simply start talking to them and they'll say things that leave you with this lighter feeling. You'll find people around whom you just can't feel that bad about yourself.

And I have a demand. Read The Brothers Karamazov by Fydor Dostoevsky. Particularly I recommend the translation by Richard Pevear and Larissa Volokhonsky. There is great wisdom to be derived from it. I think you'll get a lot out of it. I don't mean that to seem silly or random. It can be a legitimately life-changing novel; view that with what skepticism you will.
 
The only people I've ever known, in my day to day, who have felt they needed therapy were attempted suicides, people with abusive parents, and sexual abuse survivors. I, on the other hand, got made fun of.

My hang ups don't really keep me from doing too much. I socialize fine in classes or at work, the friends I do hang out with outside of those situations are people I am TIGHT with. I just need to stay positive.
 
And sometimes, that takes therapy. At least give it a try, man.

Or, at the very least, can I suggest a book to you? It's helped me loads. It's called Feeling Good by David M. Burns.
 
The only people I've ever known, in my day to day, who have felt they needed therapy were attempted suicides, people with abusive parents, and sexual abuse survivors. I, on the other hand, got made fun of.

My hang ups don't really keep me from doing too much. I socialize fine in classes or at work, the friends I do hang out with outside of those situations are people I am TIGHT with. I just need to stay positive.
Jesus. Their baseline is not your baseline. True someone abused by their parents might never miss a beat when it comes to introducing himself and being shot down by a girl. But what in the hell of shit does that have to do with you? stienman's cancer/infection metaphor is solid. Just because everyone you know who goes to the doctor had cancer, limbs blown off, and catastrophically uncontrollable bladders doesn't mean your little cut won't kill you.

You also seem incapable of staying positive, because when we say "It's okay, you should do this," you say "BUT EVERYTHING WILL END IN RUIN." Thanks, Tips. We're all gonna die, so we might as well kill ourselves now!
 
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