This is why I hate Apple culture

Status
Not open for further replies.
The fact that there's even such a thing as "Apple culture" pisses me off. But on the other hand, I rarely meet people like this in real life. Most people I know with iPhones don't treat it as a religion.
 

fade

Staff member
Your argument makes no sense. SmarterChild isn't even remotely the same as Siri. Just because Siri makes the same jokes as Smarterchild doesn't mean that's all Siri is. Siri is actually pretty impressive in that it actually tries to figure out what you meant, not just what you said. It does it by voice activation. I mean Vlingo existed, but it was just a voice matching program. The big deal about Siri is that it processes off-phone using Bayesian algorithms on fairly impressive farm computers. It's not Dragon, it's not Smarterchild. It's a mistake Apple-haters keep making, because that's what they want Siri to be, since it will validate their unjustifiable low opinion of Apple products. And I'm not just saying this stuff because I like Apple.

All the Apple-haters (who are FAR more vocal than the Apple fans, which I find amusing) keep saying stupid things like, "Oh our Androids could do that 1 year ago." Well, so could the iPhone. Most of the new functions existed in app form, just like the ones for Android. The big deal is that it's in the OS. That means integration with core apps, and from a dev point of view, it means access to APIs that will make the functionality available to other apps. That kind of stuff has always been the thing that gets the apple crowd going, not some weird Jobs fetish, or whatever else the haters want to make it.

Also, I haven't quite figured out why it's more wrong to be a fan of Apple products than a fan of other products. Because apparently, that's a thing.
Added at: 00:20
I'm not an Apple culture. I'm a fan of solidly built computers that work with minimal fuss and get out of the way of my working so that I can get things done.
 
The cult of apple, like any cult, is annoying.

But I don't recall being able to speak to smarterchild (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SmarterChild), nor it being portable, nor it being able to help me schedule appointments, send emails and texts, start phone calls, give me directions and addresses for my personal contacts lists, etc.

Face it. Nothing apple does is innovative according to your narrow definition - they are at least one year behind in most of their technology (they are using last year's cellular network because the current crop of chipsets for 4G are too power hungry).

It's the whole that's innovative enough.

Look at hardware specs? PCs and android phones win by a longshot.
Look at individual features? The iphone has nothing that doesn't exist in a better form somewhere else.
Look at user experience? The overall user experience of iOS system, including the app store, the hardware, the "cloud", etc - nothing else compares. Yes, you can do most of these things with android, wm7, and even blackberry now. But none of those things do all that the iPhone does out of the box with everything working together.

I suppose it depends on your definition of innovation. Taken down to its basic functionality, Siri doesn't do much that can't be done elsewhere.

But show me a device at any time in the past or the near future that does everything that a vanilla iPhone does with Siri.
 
Your argument makes no sense. SmarterChild isn't even remotely the same as Siri. Just because Siri makes the same jokes as Smarterchild doesn't mean that's all Siri is. Siri is actually pretty impressive in that it actually tries to figure out what you meant, not just what you said. It does it by voice activation. I mean Vlingo existed, but it was just a voice matching program. The big deal about Siri is that it processes off-phone using Bayesian algorithms on fairly impressive farm computers. It's not Dragon, it's not Smarterchild. It's a mistake Apple-haters keep making, because that's what they want Siri to be, since it will validate their unjustifiable low opinion of Apple products. And I'm not just saying this stuff because I like Apple.

All the Apple-haters (who are FAR more vocal than the Apple fans, which I find amusing) keep saying stupid things like, "Oh our Androids could do that 1 year ago." Well, so could the iPhone. Most of the new functions existed in app form, just like the ones for Android. The big deal is that it's in the OS. That means integration with core apps, and from a dev point of view, it means access to APIs that will make the functionality available to other apps. That kind of stuff has always been the thing that gets the apple crowd going, not some weird Jobs fetish, or whatever else the haters want to make it.

Also, I haven't quite figured out why it's more wrong to be a fan of Apple products than a fan of other products. Because apparently, that's a thing.
Added at: 00:20
I'm not an Apple culture. I'm a fan of solidly built computers that work with minimal fuss and get out of the way of my working so that I can get things done.
Ice Cream Sandwich >>>>>>>>> Any OS Apple has come out with.

I'm just pissed about all the articles praising something like it's the second coming of Christ, when the reality is it's not that big a deal.
 
Ice Cream Sandwich >>>>>>>>> Any OS Apple has come out with.
http://www.techradar.com/news/mobil...m-sandwich-everything-you-need-to-know-954464

Really? Which of these features are not on iOS?

I'm just pissed about all the articles praising something like it's the second coming of Christ, when the reality is it's not that big a deal.
Ah, yes, the hype machine. You might as well be complaining about news coverage in general.

Right now apple is hot. Apple knows how to market their products for maximum exposure. Google doesn't, nor do samsung, motorola, HTC, and the dozens of other android handset makers.

Just be glad we've moved past the dark old days of choosing between a blackberry, a palm pilot, and windows CE as a "smart" phone.

Quite frankly I'm glad google has their stick in the game - iOS wouldn't be nearly as good as it is now without the competition, and vice versa.
 
Also, I haven't quite figured out why it's more wrong to be a fan of Apple products than a fan of other products. Because apparently, that's a thing.
Because if you went to Sturgis to mock the Harley Davidson fanbois, you would get your spine ripped out. Apple fans are less likely to re-arrange your body parts when mocked.
 
Because if you went to Sturgis to mock the Harley Davidson fanbois, you would get your spine ripped out. Apple fans are less likely to re-arrange your body parts when mocked.
Don't get me started on the Harley drones...

Yamaha and Honda make far superior bikes for far less money.

I guess it's like this across all products. I'm just drawn towards bang for my buck as opposed to flash and glam factor.
 
Don't get me started on the Harley drones...

Yamaha and Honda make far superior bikes for far less money.

I guess it's like this across all products. I'm just drawn towards bang for my buck as opposed to flash and glam factor.
What Android phones demonstrate that the iPhone 4S is expensive given the features it provides?
 

fade

Staff member
I use all three major OSs every single day. I've hacked linux kernels and written Windows software. But I always come home to my mac. It works and it works well, and that's all the bang I need for my buck. Things work intuitively, and they work fast. I'm sorry you think that the Mac OS is less than an ice cream sandwich. (Have you used it longer than 10 minutes?) When I get on Windows (the bulk of my work day) it feels like I slipped boxing gloves on and put on a pixelly pair of glasses.
 
It's simple:

Mac = Wii
PC = PS3/Xbox360

That's why Mac's are hated by tech enthusiasts/gamers and worshipped by the mainstream public/casual users..
 
I've said it before, and I'll say it again:
-Apple products are designed by and sold to those who buy a product because they feel individually empowered by the ownership of that product. From many, to few.
Automotive equivalent: Audi R8
-Microsoft products are designed by and sold to those who buy a product because they feel their group/company/team will be empowered by the ownership of that product. From many, to many.
Automotive equivalent: Ford Mustang
-*nix products are designed by and sold to those who enjoy the feeling of accomplishment when they have built something with their own two hands. From few, to few (or the one).
Automotive equivalent: Ariel Atom

Further, I don't believe these are static. There was a time that Apple belonged to that last group, after all. This is just where I see each of them *now*.

--Patrick
(edited to add automotive analogies)
 

fade

Staff member
It's simple:

Mac = Wii
PC = PS3/Xbox360

That's why Mac's are hated by tech enthusiasts/gamers and worshipped by the mainstream public/casual users..
I don't agree with this statement (or the one about empowered by ownership) at all. What "tech thing" can't you do on a mac? For that matter, write a parallel, POSIX compliant, GNU compliant program on Windows out of the box. You can't. And don't tell me most people wouldn't do that, because that's what a "tech user/non-casual" would do. In fact, the reason I bought a Mac in the first place back in 2004 was precisely the opposite of your claim. I can write programs that use any number of advanced tools that port with no modification to Sun grids or Crays right out of the box. I can use OpenMP, MPI, code on the graphics card. If you're talking about customization, there is absolutely nothing you cannot customize on a Mac in the same way you can't on Windows, usually easier! Software? Again equivalent. You might not have a gaudy Ribbon displaying every single option in your face, but that doesn't mean they're not there. If you're talking about gaming, blame the devs who don't port, despite the availability of open sound and graphics APIs on Mac OS that don't cost them a thing to license.

Ease-of-use is not equivalent to non-technical. That's a mistake so many mac-haters make.

Want my car analogy?
Windows PC: Ford. Most are Escorts and Fiestas. You can get a Mustang, sure, and you can rod out the Escort.
Linux PC: Shadetree hotrod. Fast, smoke-belching, and always feels a little amateur, no matter how pretty you make it.
Mac: BMW. May not be as fast as Mustang, but tightly engineered, smooth ride with a gestalt driving experience that more than makes up for the slightly slower top speed.
(none of these are necessarily bad. I don't hate Windows PCs or Linux, I just prefer Mac.)

Not once have I thought about the cultural status of my Mac. Most of my scientist friends who love them didn't either. It's frankly offensive when people suggest that I dropped the cash for a mac for a status symbol, and not because of the user experience and the availability of scientific programming tools out of the box.
 
Ice Cream Sandwich >>>>>>>>> Any OS Apple has come out with.
Unless you plan on getting the Galaxy Nexus, good luck finding ICS on any non-rooted device before Spring. If you're lucky. When Gingerbread was released, the rumor mill was full of statements from "sources" that Sprint wanted Gingerbread on the Evo 4G before Christmas. The official update didn't come until late June. By then I'd been running CM7 for months.

Android updates are held hostage by both the device manufacturers and the carriers. It doesn't matter that the new OS is out there, if the device makers and carriers don't think it fits in with their plans, you can't have it. HTC came out with a blunt "we'll think about it" when asked about ICS. They have too much time and money invested in Sense, and ICS is a threat to that investment.

tl;dr: Don't expect ICS on a device currently in the wild until Summer, unless it's a Nexus.
 
Only Apple products that I have are and old iPhone and a Classic iPod. I bought them because they work with my car, and I can find Speakers, Chargers, Stereo Interfaces that work with my dock interface at any electronics store.
 
@Fade - It's simple

Mac = Wii - Because it's easy to use and not as powerful as the PC. It's not really meant for serious gaming, and kids/old people/mainstream computer illiterate people love them because they're easy to use.

PC = PS3/Xbox360 - Because with some know-how, you can customize it to become a beast of a system. It's not very restictive in how you can use them, what you can put on them, and it can be used for some serious gaming. Kids find them harder to figure out, Old people usually avoid them all together, and the mainstream computer tards find them much too complicated to get the most out of them.

If I have to explain even further than that, I dunno what to tell you.

(If you can't figure out that I'm talking about the gaming aspects of the systems, by comparing them to gaming consoles, then hey I'll just spell it out here for you)
 

fade

Staff member
That's not what you said. You said that macs are non technical and changed it to "Oh I just meant for gaming". I used a car comparison, but I wasn't calling a Mac a car, so hopefully you can see the confusion. The simple fact is that a Mac has plenty of tech capability. You seem to be modifying mean the hardware can't be expanded, which is also factually incorrect for some of the macs.
 
C

Chibibar

I grew up in a PC environment for a long time, but I also appreciate the Mac also. I am not a die hard fan for either (I do have a PC for gaming, I also own a Wii, PS3, iPhone 4, iPad and a Scion D ;) )

The thing aboutApple is that out of the box it is streamline and ready to go. It is design to be ease of use which a lot of casual users LOVE to have. They don't want to "spruce" it up or "expand the tech" on it. They just want to open the box, turn it on, activate and it works. Apple products does that.

But there is a group of people who love to tinker and have the ability to upgrade later. PC product provide just that. you can custom built or pre-built (and later upgrade) to your heart content. You can swap out pieces easily because it was design for that. You could install anything on it and make do what you want to do. Some Mac line could upgrade but I know personally upgrading an iMac hardware is a pain the butt vs upgrade my PC.

It is two different school of thought which doesn't like the other.
 
I would not be using this macbook pro if it were not as powerful as the PC. In fact my quad core i7 pc sits there turned off as I'm running both windows and OS X simultaneously on this laptop. Of course it cost a lot more than the equivalent PC, and it was purchased for a specific need (OS X kernel driver development) but it runs everything I've thrown at it, including recent games.

But there's no point in having this discussion for computers - PC fanboys and apple fanboys have been going at it for generations.

I'm interested in comparing tablets and phones. Several people have claimed that even for the phones you get more bang for the buck both in hardware and software features, and I haven't been convinced.

That's true for their computer products, but is it true for their mobile products?
 
The long standing computer fight between PC and Apple fanboys has been mitigated by the fact they both run the same damn hardware now. The only thing different is the OS and the external design of the case. The idea that a Mac could be 'more powerful' than a PC is kind of laughable in light of that.
 
C

Chibibar

I would not be using this macbook pro if it were not as powerful as the PC. In fact my quad core i7 pc sits there turned off as I'm running both windows and OS X simultaneously on this laptop. Of course it cost a lot more than the equivalent PC, and it was purchased for a specific need (OS X kernel driver development) but it runs everything I've thrown at it, including recent games.

But there's no point in having this discussion for computers - PC fanboys and apple fanboys have been going at it for generations.

I'm interested in comparing tablets and phones. Several people have claimed that even for the phones you get more bang for the buck both in hardware and software features, and I haven't been convinced.

That's true for their computer products, but is it true for their mobile products?
The Droid does allow some custom software and such to run (also Flash allow) unlike iPhone (cannot run flash except maybe since app can run flash video only) There are some apps a friend of mine shown me that you can remotely control your server with a droid but not so much with iPhone, but recently there are some apps that you can do something similar with iPhone.

I think the big difference is that the iPhone customization is restricted by the iOs (not jailbroken) vs a Droid which can be customize without breaking the OS. Another is the iTunes store. iPhone (not jailbroken) apps are LIMITED to iTunes store only. There is not way to load software any other means. Droids do not have this restriction which means anyone can write apps for it and load it to the phone (so I'm told) and thus, "uncensored" apps unlike iTunes which is heavily censored (this is not porn related just that Apple has a tight control on who can and cannot be listed on iTunes)

Until iPods hit the market by storm, PC was dominant in many areas including phone. I think Apple got a great sales/marketing team that pretty much made Apple a household name. This is what PC cults hates. Apple came out with ease of use products and now it is VERY popular. iPhone came out before Droid. If Droid came out first, I'm sure it would have been the popular one.

iPad came out before other Tablets. Sure there were other tablets but most of the early one (like Kindle) are e-reader only first. the iPad was just a really fancy larger version of iTouch.
 

Shannow

Staff member
Meh, switching from my current Android to the 4s, and do not feel bad about it at all. Used iOS before the droid, so the switch was not that big a deal for me. Looked at the features, my contract was up, and the more I thoguht about it, the more I jsut said "Fuck it, the 4s will do exactly what I need, and have the power to do it, and the ease to do it. Switching over."

I was a bit worried about reading my downloaded comics on my phone like I do now, but read up a might bit on it, and see it will be just as easy on the new phone. And as for the rest..I like iOS, and I already ahve quite a few apps from before.

Am I an apple fanboy? No. never have been. But do I just like the phone and its features...yes. The rest of the people out there that decide to lump everyone into one camp or another, well, they can just go fuck themselves.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top