The Random Crap Thread 2: It Hits the Fan.
- Thread starter North_Ranger
- Start date
If you've been following the thread--well, you'd probably have the same opinion you're having, since at this point Pez is just deleting anything that doesn't mark all the squares on his checklist. Look at it this way:
- Situation occurring that people don't agree with
- People reply/react
- Replies/reactions edited and deleted
People aren't allowed to discuss it where it's present. What do you suggest?
Pretty much. I'm not attacking the reason the thread move was made (though I still think Pez should've voiced he was having issues with that stuff earlier), but apparently we're not supposed to converse, joke, or discuss what went on. I've seen what he's doing before with mods of other forums, trying to maintain exactness to threads and subforum, directing content and conversation like water through categorized pipes. I'm glad Dave made that Cosplay a subforum, because in those other instances, those moderators were forum-killers.
M
makare
I am pretty happy to see Pez trying to keep the riffraff out of his forum. If you have a problem with it you might want to check and make sure you aren't riffraff.
The not allowing anything off topic was just an extreme reaction to people not being able to behave themselves. I realize that chaos and what not is "in the spirit of Halforums" but it doesn't have to be in that thread. In fact since that is the first place a lot of new people see it should have higher standards.
The not allowing anything off topic was just an extreme reaction to people not being able to behave themselves. I realize that chaos and what not is "in the spirit of Halforums" but it doesn't have to be in that thread. In fact since that is the first place a lot of new people see it should have higher standards.
figmentPez
Staff member
Which I agreed about and apologized for. I didn't want to have to deal with the inevitable drama of morons who think that harassing women in a forum is somehow acceptable, and I made the situation worse by waiting. Again, I apologize for waiting. When I asked for time to work up a set of rules so we'd all be on the same page, you asshats proceeded to break the very few rules I'd made explicit (not harassing the cosplayers) and then didn't listen when I asked everyone to drop the issue.
I haven't deleted any posts that were respectful comments about pictures that were posted in the thread. All I've deleted was whining about and mockery of my decisions. I don't want to, and shouldn't have to, deal with that bullshit, so it's gone. You want to have a reasoned discussion about the ethical treatment of people while they pursue a hobby? Start a thread for it, and then actually bring reason to the table and not just ad hominem attacks and strawmen. Don't expect me to agree that you can treat women (or men) like crap just because "it's the internet". I know full well that it's possible, and even necessary, to learn to put up with all sorts of horrible statements being made on the internet. However, that does not make those statements acceptable to make, nor does it make efforts to minimize those statements a pointless task.
If you'll be patient with me, I'll have some rules up ASAP, my heath permitting. I'll also have some thoughts on the future of the board, what threads I intend to start, and what threads I hope others will begin. However, the more time I have to take making posts like this, explaining what has already been stated multiple times, to people who are too thick-headed to understand logic and common decency (which I realize is all too uncommon on the internet); the longer it's going to take me to make any progress on posting cosplay.
nope.we got Europe to worry about.no time for poop.ask Japan.
figmentPez
Staff member
As I have said in the GCT, and again here, I am working on a set of rules. However, I want to restate the more time you spend being asshats, breaking the few rules I've already stated (Treat the cosplayers with respect. End of discussion.), the longer it's going to take to post guidelines for the sub-forum. The longer it takes to get that sub-forum squared away, the longer everyone has to wait for me to start posting pics again regularly.
Stop it! Stop it! Can't you see this constant fighting is tearing us apart?
M
makare
I want more Daria cosplay. It amused me.
Let's all play an animal noise guessing game instead! I'll go first. *mrownk!*
/poorly executed obscure reference
That's actually reasoning I can understand.
I thought (regarding the last couple deleted posts) it was pretty clear we were just joking around. Sorry man.
what exactly do you mean by that? Are you on some like advisory board with Dave or something? just curious.
in that vein I would like to start a running anime discussion thread, but god knows I don't want any trouble from anyone because of it. Although I welcome the so called "riff-raff" I am curious to know what they think if they watch anything. Good or bad I am curious, of course there isn't really a market for it on this forum. I guess I will go start that thread...
M
makare
When he said board I just figured he meant his sub-forum.
This forum is slowly starting to move to the point where if you don't agree and be nice to everyone 100% of the time, we're going to be "moderated" to the point that all the "riff-raff" will be gone and all the "flower-kids" will finally have their playground exactly how they want it.
Or men.
Oh there, you did it. The point of my joke that you deleted, in simpler terms, is that you're coming off less "preservation of decency" and more "I must defend the frail womenfolk." But as I said, I'm not attacking the idea that stopping the problem is a bad idea. Nor am I saying you should have to pick and choose how you present your ideal of your cosplay thread. More I was poking at the overbearing sentiment and then coming under fire from a "get off my lawn" sentiment. We can't continue a discussion where it began, for reasons that have nothing to do with why the thread was moved to its own sub-forum, because of rules no one outside of your head is aware of.
Consider this: if it's this difficult to get some ground rules going, maybe you're implementing them prematurely.
Added at: 20:33
Er., bad timing there, Prime. That wasn't toward you, but Shego's dramatization.
I was at a forum with that situation long ago. It's tumbleweed town today, and has been for years, because no one could hold a natural conversation. Off-topic? That reply was moved to be the first of a new thread. Said something not to the mods' liking? Thread locked. Eventually, people stopped posting.
Added at: 23:34
It's okay, you can apply it to my agreement with Shego
Added at: 20:33
Er., bad timing there, Prime. That wasn't toward you, but Shego's dramatization.
.Exactly. You can't have everyone behave 100% how you want them to without them resenting you.
Most people have to deal with being told how to act on a daily basis and have no vent outside a community they like, such as a forum like this.
Then to be told they're not welcome and are "riff-raff" that need to be "moderated" is the biggest slap in the face you could expect from the place you'd least expect.
Most people have to deal with being told how to act on a daily basis and have no vent outside a community they like, such as a forum like this.
Then to be told they're not welcome and are "riff-raff" that need to be "moderated" is the biggest slap in the face you could expect from the place you'd least expect.
There's no dramtization. People have seriously used the words "Riff-Raff' and "Needs to be moderated". No joke.
Added at: 20:33
Er., bad timing there, Prime. That wasn't toward you, but Shego's dramatization.
Not frequently. Thus, dramatized.
The slippery slope argument? Not terribly convincing. I don't think there has been enough incidents to warrant a real trend.
I think she's referencing the thread locks, not just the cosplay stuff.
I think it's a PM thing, not an air-the-dirty-laundry-across-the-forum thing. I seem to recall Dave saying just that, in fact. This mob rule stuff becomes kind of ridiculous and happens every time someone disagrees with the actions of a mod. Even if Pez is just the mod of a sub forum, that's kinda the best way to handle things. The next step, if you aren't satisfied, is to go to the forum mods.
Only about how many closed thread, deleted posts and bans? How many is enough to warrant a situation?
I've seen more than enough to feel I needed to say something. I've been around long enough and often enough to see changes in climate around here better than most would in their own homes.
I've seen more than enough to feel I needed to say something. I've been around long enough and often enough to see changes in climate around here better than most would in their own homes.
I know. Not a trend, though. So far it is enough to have been a coincidence. Seriously, we're talking about less than a week's worth of activity here. You need to demonstrate it over a longer time period than that!
First, I can see both sides of the argument. I think comments like "dat ass" and descriptions of various sexual acts with cosplayers are a bit much. It's just too fucking creepy to be allowed. On the other hand, the application of rules in the thread started to feel both arbitrary and hyper-sensitive. It's not hard to find a post where FP himself comments on how attractive some cosplayers are, but a vague standard of respect for women had to be suddenly maintained as though they were fragile flowers in need of a valient defender. And don't pretend for a minute that there would be the same reaction if someone made a comment about a male cosplayer - that's bullshit.
And since when are threads not allowed to veer off-topic for a bit? It wasn't long ago that was expected. Now it's not allowed? That's the way conversations work. And if people got off on tangents, simply posting some pictures would get everything back on track. Deleting comments and threats of moderation were unnecessary. By the way, declaring people to be "riff-raff" for posting anything critical or off-topic is wrong. Not only is it some judgmental crap, it's unfair to people who might actually be interested in that thread.
That thread has to allow some discussion of the cosplayers. Some people are going to like what they see, and some are going to have criticisms. Any attempt to keep things happy and positive all the time is going to kill the incentive to visit the thread in the first place.
These are just my thoughts on the issue. I'm not interested in getting into a pissing match.
And since when are threads not allowed to veer off-topic for a bit? It wasn't long ago that was expected. Now it's not allowed? That's the way conversations work. And if people got off on tangents, simply posting some pictures would get everything back on track. Deleting comments and threats of moderation were unnecessary. By the way, declaring people to be "riff-raff" for posting anything critical or off-topic is wrong. Not only is it some judgmental crap, it's unfair to people who might actually be interested in that thread.
That thread has to allow some discussion of the cosplayers. Some people are going to like what they see, and some are going to have criticisms. Any attempt to keep things happy and positive all the time is going to kill the incentive to visit the thread in the first place.
These are just my thoughts on the issue. I'm not interested in getting into a pissing match.
M
makare
What was locked or moderated that was unreasonable? It wasn't just disagreement it was antagonistic crap.
Is there a really negative use for the word riff-raff I am unaware of?
Is there a really negative use for the word riff-raff I am unaware of?
You basically called people trash, and it carries an implication of diminished worth.