Our chocolate still comes at a cost...

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PatrThom

PatrThom

Yeah. We can't eat Reese's cups in our house thanks to this. Non Fair-Trade chocolate is prohibited in our houshold. Thanks, child slavery.

--Patrick
 
David

David

Same, I had no idea about this. Which chocolate companies sell this chocolate? I don't see anything regarding which companies it goes to.
 
PatrThom

PatrThom

(according to Kati) The only way to be sure you are getting slave-free chocolate is if the packaging explicitly states Fair- or Equal-Trade. If the packaging states it is certified organic then you are probably getting slave-free chocolate. Everything else is suspect.

--Patrick
 
@Li3n

@Li3n

PatrThom said:
(according to Kati) The only way to be sure you are getting slave-free chocolate is if the packaging explicitly states Fair- or Equal-Trade. If the packaging states it is certified organic then you are probably getting slave-free chocolate. Everything else is suspect.

--Patrick
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So the only way to make sure is to harvest the cocoa yourself basically...
 
Krisken

Krisken

My wife looked at me like I was nuts when I said I wasn't buying chocolate. She said "No Hershey's?" I replied "Nope." She game me a :(
 
Shegokigo

Shegokigo

Choosing not to buy slave chocolate is as effective as giving up beef and being vegan.

You don't accomplish a damn thing other than depriving yourself of something ridiculously delicious. The chocolate company isn't going to be so distraught by the very small minority of people suddenly not buying their product. Oh and saying "Well if I can lead more people to do it by example then we'll eventually get somewhere" fails completely in this world of soon to be Wall-E/Idiocracy humanity.
 
PatrThom

PatrThom

If it promotes the general welfare and domestic tranquility, it's a sacrifice that's usually worth making.

--Patrick
 
Espy

Espy

I think it's less about thinking that you are going to be "changing the world" and more "not buying something that children in slavery are being forced to produce".
 
PatrThom

PatrThom

And this is the reason that Kati goes through such trouble to find fairly traded cocoa, hot chocolate, bar chocolate, baking bars, candies, cookies, mocha/cappuccino drinks, etc. It isn't because she thinks that it will make a difference, it's because she doesn't want to know that the manufacture of the delicious taste in her mouth has "torture some children" as part of the recipe process.

--Patrick
 
Espy

Espy

Of course, the reality is, anyone who does avoid it and isn't afraid to share the info with others is actually doing something else good. Raising awareness of child slavery is never pissing in the wind. Even if only 1 out of 10 people you know consider it and actually change their habits that is something.
 
Shegokigo

Shegokigo

Espy said:
Even if only 1 out of 10 people you know consider it and actually change their habits that is something.
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Yeah... it really isn't. Other than of course making yourself feel better, or in the case of most vegans, making yourself feel superior.

Otherwise, it's not doing anything.

*Again, I understand if you want to do it for your own peace of mind, but just remember that's all it's doing.
 
Espy

Espy

You and I clearly have very, very different ideas of what substantiates doing something good or worth ones time.
 
PatrThom

PatrThom

Espy said:
You and I clearly have very, very different ideas of what substantiates doing something good or worth ones time.
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Perhaps that is because you both have different ideas about the likelihood that one person's actions can influence another person's behavior.

--Patrick
 
Shegokigo

Shegokigo

No, we have the same.

Choosing not to buy chocolate from a company does noone any "good" other than your own moral "peace of mind". You didn't put a "dent" in the corpration. You didn't free a child slave. You made yourself feel better. The end.

There is no "different ideas" about it. Just facts.
 
figmentPez

figmentPez

Staff member
Okay, let's assume that too few people stop buying from major chocolate companies to make them change their ways (an assumption that I don't agree with)... that still doesn't mean that nothing will change. Especially if more people buy fair-trade chocolate. If more people insist on buying ethically produced chocolate, and are willing to pay to do so, then basic economics says that more chocolate will be produced in such a fashion in order to meet that demand. That may not change the entire chocolate industry, but it will make an impact on a portion of the chocolate industry.
 
PatrThom

PatrThom

If enough people change their habits, it means the price for fair-trade products will come down. I will be quite happy if/when that happens, lemme tellya.

--Patrick
 
Espy

Espy

PatrThom said:
Perhaps that is because you both have different ideas about the likelihood that one person's actions can influence another person's behavior.

--Patrick
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Thats a big part of it, not to mention that I'm not defining "good" on a scale of "physical changes that have been accomplished" but rather, what is morally right in the situation. In the end, everyone has a different scale they measure by for themselves, personally I'm going to work hard to not support child slavery. It doesn't "make me feel good" so much as I don't see choice in the matter. If someone else can see and be aware of the evil associated with their purchase thats, well, not good, but it's their choice I guess. You can't avoid everything bad so I'm not going to look down on someone for buying Hershey's, but I would urge them to consider something else.
 
strawman

strawman

Shegokigo said:
No, we have the same.

Choosing not to buy chocolate from a company does noone any "good" other than your own moral "peace of mind". You didn't put a "dent" in the corpration. You didn't free a child slave. You made yourself feel better. The end.

There is no "different ideas" about it. Just facts.
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Sometimes I wonder if I'm a pessimist, but then my scale gets reset when I hear a real pessimist spout such nonsense. Thanks for the reminder.
 
Covar

Covar

facts? :rofl:

@PatrThom: is there any kind of Legal assurance that something with a Fair-trade label is good-to-go? If there was/is some kind of assurance I'll probably pay more attention to my purchase habits when I'm in the super market.
 
BananaHands

BananaHands

Staff member
I hate that justification. "It won't change anything, so why bother!" I hear it all the time with HeadCount, mainly from people 20-30.

It's just a clever way of saying you're lazy.

But hey, it's not your problem. So whatever.
 
PatrThom

PatrThom

Covar said:
@PatrThom: is there any kind of Legal assurance that something with a Fair-trade label is good-to-go?
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Probably as much assurance as when something says "Gluten-Free." It's something that's supposed to be regulated, but YMMV and all that.

--Patrick
 
Krisken

Krisken

Shegokigo said:
Choosing not to buy slave chocolate is as effective as giving up beef and being vegan.

You don't accomplish a damn thing other than depriving yourself of something ridiculously delicious. The chocolate company isn't going to be so distraught by the very small minority of people suddenly not buying their product. Oh and saying "Well if I can lead more people to do it by example then we'll eventually get somewhere" fails completely in this world of soon to be Wall-E/Idiocracy humanity.
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It's not about making the world better. It's about making me feel better. I didn't tell her she couldn't eat the chocolate, I said I wasn't buying the chocolate because of the practices being performed. My wife said she supports me.

An action doesn't have to have wide sweeping ramifications to be a good one.

Edit: Sorry Shego, didn't see the posts afterward before posting. You kinda covered this later on and said something similar.
 
@Li3n

@Li3n

Shegokigo said:
Oh and saying "Well if I can lead more people to do it by example then we'll eventually get somewhere" fails completely in this world of soon to be Wall-E/Idiocracy humanity.
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Well not doing anything isn't going to help with the "Wall-E/Idiocracy humanity" situation... so you might as well try... at least then you'd have proof it didn't matter.
 
Shegokigo

Shegokigo

Or I could just continue to look out for me, enjoy myself regardless of what it causes to others and know that when I pass on, I'll have neither changed anyone's life for the better or for the worse and I enjoyed every minute of it.

Also when I meant that "you're accomplishing nothing when you try" is because unless you're holding massively sponsored National events to bring awareness to the mass media and public en large? Yeah you're doing it for your own peace of mind, no matter how many friends you tell.
 
Krisken

Krisken

Shegokigo said:
Also when I meant that "you're accomplishing nothing when you try" is because unless you're holding massively sponsored National events to bring awareness to the mass media and public en large? Yeah you're doing it for your own peace of mind, no matter how many friends you tell.
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Well, it did inform me of something I didn't know about before and changed how I viewed the product. No one said you have to do so or that you're an awful person for eating chocolate. That's a decision you have to (and did) make.
 
Shegokigo

Shegokigo

Totally understand Krisken, and I meant that for @Li3n.

Nothing wrong with wanting to take the personal high moral ground for peace of mind.
 
BananaHands

BananaHands

Staff member
You know, she's right.

Not being homosexual, who the fuck cares if they get married or have the same rights. Fuck 'em.

Man, aren't I just so much more superior for not doing anything?
 
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