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Our chocolate still comes at a cost...

#1

strawman

strawman

Years after industry groups promised to stop child labor in cocoa production in order to avoid passage of a bill to force such change, much of our chocolate is still harvested by child slaves:

http://thecnnfreedomproject.blogs.c...nd-chocolate-all-too-easy-to-find/?hpt=hp_bn2


#2

@Li3n

@Li3n

Their tears is what makes it taste so good...


#3

PatrThom

PatrThom

Yeah. We can't eat Reese's cups in our house thanks to this. Non Fair-Trade chocolate is prohibited in our houshold. Thanks, child slavery.

--Patrick


#4

Officer_Charon

Officer_Charon

....... Fuck.

I had no idea at all... damn.... My wife's not going to like it, but it's time to dump the Reese's...


#5

David

David

Same, I had no idea about this. Which chocolate companies sell this chocolate? I don't see anything regarding which companies it goes to.


#6

PatrThom

PatrThom

(according to Kati) The only way to be sure you are getting slave-free chocolate is if the packaging explicitly states Fair- or Equal-Trade. If the packaging states it is certified organic then you are probably getting slave-free chocolate. Everything else is suspect.

--Patrick


#7

@Li3n

@Li3n

PatrThom said:
(according to Kati) The only way to be sure you are getting slave-free chocolate is if the packaging explicitly states Fair- or Equal-Trade. If the packaging states it is certified organic then you are probably getting slave-free chocolate. Everything else is suspect.

--Patrick
Click to expand...
So the only way to make sure is to harvest the cocoa yourself basically...


#8

Krisken

Krisken

My wife looked at me like I was nuts when I said I wasn't buying chocolate. She said "No Hershey's?" I replied "Nope." She game me a :(


#9

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

Choosing not to buy slave chocolate is as effective as giving up beef and being vegan.

You don't accomplish a damn thing other than depriving yourself of something ridiculously delicious. The chocolate company isn't going to be so distraught by the very small minority of people suddenly not buying their product. Oh and saying "Well if I can lead more people to do it by example then we'll eventually get somewhere" fails completely in this world of soon to be Wall-E/Idiocracy humanity.


#10

PatrThom

PatrThom

If it promotes the general welfare and domestic tranquility, it's a sacrifice that's usually worth making.

--Patrick


#11

Espy

Espy

I think it's less about thinking that you are going to be "changing the world" and more "not buying something that children in slavery are being forced to produce".


#12

PatrThom

PatrThom

And this is the reason that Kati goes through such trouble to find fairly traded cocoa, hot chocolate, bar chocolate, baking bars, candies, cookies, mocha/cappuccino drinks, etc. It isn't because she thinks that it will make a difference, it's because she doesn't want to know that the manufacture of the delicious taste in her mouth has "torture some children" as part of the recipe process.

--Patrick


#13

Espy

Espy

Of course, the reality is, anyone who does avoid it and isn't afraid to share the info with others is actually doing something else good. Raising awareness of child slavery is never pissing in the wind. Even if only 1 out of 10 people you know consider it and actually change their habits that is something.


#14

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

Espy said:
Even if only 1 out of 10 people you know consider it and actually change their habits that is something.
Click to expand...
Yeah... it really isn't. Other than of course making yourself feel better, or in the case of most vegans, making yourself feel superior.

Otherwise, it's not doing anything.

*Again, I understand if you want to do it for your own peace of mind, but just remember that's all it's doing.


#15

Espy

Espy

You and I clearly have very, very different ideas of what substantiates doing something good or worth ones time.


#16

PatrThom

PatrThom

Espy said:
You and I clearly have very, very different ideas of what substantiates doing something good or worth ones time.
Click to expand...
Perhaps that is because you both have different ideas about the likelihood that one person's actions can influence another person's behavior.

--Patrick


#17

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

No, we have the same.

Choosing not to buy chocolate from a company does noone any "good" other than your own moral "peace of mind". You didn't put a "dent" in the corpration. You didn't free a child slave. You made yourself feel better. The end.

There is no "different ideas" about it. Just facts.


#18

figmentPez

figmentPez

Okay, let's assume that too few people stop buying from major chocolate companies to make them change their ways (an assumption that I don't agree with)... that still doesn't mean that nothing will change. Especially if more people buy fair-trade chocolate. If more people insist on buying ethically produced chocolate, and are willing to pay to do so, then basic economics says that more chocolate will be produced in such a fashion in order to meet that demand. That may not change the entire chocolate industry, but it will make an impact on a portion of the chocolate industry.


#19

PatrThom

PatrThom

If enough people change their habits, it means the price for fair-trade products will come down. I will be quite happy if/when that happens, lemme tellya.

--Patrick


#20

Espy

Espy

PatrThom said:
Perhaps that is because you both have different ideas about the likelihood that one person's actions can influence another person's behavior.

--Patrick
Click to expand...
Thats a big part of it, not to mention that I'm not defining "good" on a scale of "physical changes that have been accomplished" but rather, what is morally right in the situation. In the end, everyone has a different scale they measure by for themselves, personally I'm going to work hard to not support child slavery. It doesn't "make me feel good" so much as I don't see choice in the matter. If someone else can see and be aware of the evil associated with their purchase thats, well, not good, but it's their choice I guess. You can't avoid everything bad so I'm not going to look down on someone for buying Hershey's, but I would urge them to consider something else.


#21

strawman

strawman

Shegokigo said:
No, we have the same.

Choosing not to buy chocolate from a company does noone any "good" other than your own moral "peace of mind". You didn't put a "dent" in the corpration. You didn't free a child slave. You made yourself feel better. The end.

There is no "different ideas" about it. Just facts.
Click to expand...
Sometimes I wonder if I'm a pessimist, but then my scale gets reset when I hear a real pessimist spout such nonsense. Thanks for the reminder.


#22

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

Facts = Nonsense to steinman

Gotcha.


#23

Covar

Covar

facts? :rofl:

@PatrThom: is there any kind of Legal assurance that something with a Fair-trade label is good-to-go? If there was/is some kind of assurance I'll probably pay more attention to my purchase habits when I'm in the super market.


#24

BananaHands

BananaHands

I hate that justification. "It won't change anything, so why bother!" I hear it all the time with HeadCount, mainly from people 20-30.

It's just a clever way of saying you're lazy.

But hey, it's not your problem. So whatever.


#25

PatrThom

PatrThom

Covar said:
@PatrThom: is there any kind of Legal assurance that something with a Fair-trade label is good-to-go?
Click to expand...
Probably as much assurance as when something says "Gluten-Free." It's something that's supposed to be regulated, but YMMV and all that.

--Patrick


#26

Krisken

Krisken

Shegokigo said:
Choosing not to buy slave chocolate is as effective as giving up beef and being vegan.

You don't accomplish a damn thing other than depriving yourself of something ridiculously delicious. The chocolate company isn't going to be so distraught by the very small minority of people suddenly not buying their product. Oh and saying "Well if I can lead more people to do it by example then we'll eventually get somewhere" fails completely in this world of soon to be Wall-E/Idiocracy humanity.
Click to expand...
It's not about making the world better. It's about making me feel better. I didn't tell her she couldn't eat the chocolate, I said I wasn't buying the chocolate because of the practices being performed. My wife said she supports me.

An action doesn't have to have wide sweeping ramifications to be a good one.

Edit: Sorry Shego, didn't see the posts afterward before posting. You kinda covered this later on and said something similar.


#27

@Li3n

@Li3n

Shegokigo said:
Oh and saying "Well if I can lead more people to do it by example then we'll eventually get somewhere" fails completely in this world of soon to be Wall-E/Idiocracy humanity.
Click to expand...
Well not doing anything isn't going to help with the "Wall-E/Idiocracy humanity" situation... so you might as well try... at least then you'd have proof it didn't matter.


#28

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

Or I could just continue to look out for me, enjoy myself regardless of what it causes to others and know that when I pass on, I'll have neither changed anyone's life for the better or for the worse and I enjoyed every minute of it.

Also when I meant that "you're accomplishing nothing when you try" is because unless you're holding massively sponsored National events to bring awareness to the mass media and public en large? Yeah you're doing it for your own peace of mind, no matter how many friends you tell.


#29

Krisken

Krisken

Shegokigo said:
Also when I meant that "you're accomplishing nothing when you try" is because unless you're holding massively sponsored National events to bring awareness to the mass media and public en large? Yeah you're doing it for your own peace of mind, no matter how many friends you tell.
Click to expand...
Well, it did inform me of something I didn't know about before and changed how I viewed the product. No one said you have to do so or that you're an awful person for eating chocolate. That's a decision you have to (and did) make.


#30

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

Totally understand Krisken, and I meant that for @Li3n.

Nothing wrong with wanting to take the personal high moral ground for peace of mind.


#31

BananaHands

BananaHands

You know, she's right.

Not being homosexual, who the fuck cares if they get married or have the same rights. Fuck 'em.

Man, aren't I just so much more superior for not doing anything?


#32

Krisken

Krisken

Cool. :D
Added at: 15:39
BananaHands said:
You know, she's right.

Not being homosexual, who the fuck cares if they get married or have the same rights. Fuck 'em.

Man, aren't I just so much more superior for not doing anything?
Click to expand...
You're kinda a weird dude bananaman.


#33

ElJuski

ElJuski

BananaHands said:
You know, she's right.

Not being homosexual, who the fuck cares if they get married or have the same rights. Fuck 'em.

Man, aren't I just so much more superior for not doing anything?
Click to expand...
That's why I never vote for gays for anything.


#34

BananaHands

BananaHands

Krisken said:
Cool. :D
Added at: 15:39

You're kinda a weird dude bananaman.
Click to expand...
I just kind of black out, wake up and I've started trollin'.


#35

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

BananaHands said:
You know, she's right.

Not being homosexual, who the fuck cares if they get married or have the same rights. Fuck 'em.

Man, aren't I just so much more superior for not doing anything?
Click to expand...
:rofl:

I'll let you figure out what's hilariously off about your comparison.


#36

Covar

Covar

You don't give a shit about others, or anything that doesn't affect you?


#37

BananaHands

BananaHands

Shegokigo said:
:rofl:

I'll let you figure out what's hilariously off about your comparison.
Click to expand...
Yeah, you're right. Child slavery is much worse than a few people not being able to marry.


#38

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

I'm talking about retail companies not caring if a small vocal minority stop buying their product not having any real effect on the industry.

How does that compare to Nation Wide movement of equal rights?

For the record, I don't do a damn thing to promote rights for gay marriage either. Again, doesn't effect me, don't try to help.

I would also tell someone who says they stand for gay right because they bought a bracelet for awareness, that they weren't accomplishing a damn thing, much like the chocolate situation.

So I am yet to be trolled by your comparison.


#39

HowDroll

HowDroll

Child slavery for some, miniature American flags for others!


#40

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

I think the confusion here is that people are assuming that I said "Never fight for any cause, it'll never get anywhere".

I'm saying that because you choose to pass on a $1.50 chocolate, and maybe you convinced 3-4 friends not to spend it. You "hit" the big company for a couple hundre while they continue to make millions. You didn't accomplish anything outside of making yourself feel better. Again, nothing wrong with that, but it is what it is.

I also never said I don't find anything good about massive National Movements with real impact on issues that concern the betterment of the world. If this was a discussion about said movement, I would have commented something along the lines of "Here's hoping they succeed so I can start buying more children at warehouse prices".

Trolls, if you want to troll a troll, realize you need to fully read a post before ranting off. I will call you out on it and make you look like a first time 4chan poster asking how to do a triforce.


#41

ElJuski

ElJuski

and God Forbid that at some point people might realize that Child Slavery is a bad thing. But no, unless it's already A HUGELY KNOWN DEAL, it's not worth the effort.


#42

BananaHands

BananaHands

Shegokigo said:
I think the confusion here is that people are assuming that I said "Never fight for any cause, it'll never get anywhere".

I'm saying that because you choose to pass on a $1.50 chocolate, and maybe you convinced 3-4 friends not to spend it. You "hit" the big company for a couple hundre while they continue to make millions. You didn't accomplish anything outside of making yourself feel better. Again, nothing wrong with that, but it is what it is.

I also never said I don't find anything good about massive National Movements with real impact on issues that concern the betterment of the world. If this was a discussion about said movement, I would have commented something along the lines of "Here's hoping they succeed so I can start buying more children at warehouse prices".

Trolls, if you want to troll a troll, realize you need to fully read a post before ranting off. I will call you out on it and make you look like a first time 4chan poster asking how to do a triforce.
Click to expand...
Seriously though, how do they do that triforce? It's maddening!


#43

ElJuski

ElJuski

hold up, just as a show of hands here in this forum, who here has now realized something about the chocolate company, and will make a concerted effort to either A) stop buying chocolate, or B- tell more people about it?


#44

HowDroll

HowDroll

BananaHands said:
Seriously though, how do they do that triforce? It's maddening!
Click to expand...
▲
▲ ▲
Added at: 16:04
ElJuski said:
hold up, just as a show of hands here in this forum, who here has now realized something about the chocolate company, and will make a concerted effort to either A) stop buying chocolate, or B- tell more people about it?
Click to expand...
Is there an option for "buy more chocolate"? Because... that one.


#45

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

ElJuski said:
and God Forbid that at some point people might realize that Child Slavery is a bad thing. But no, unless it's already A HUGELY KNOWN DEAL, it's not worth the effort.
Click to expand...
Might as well tell them about the clothes and jewelry they're most likely wearing too. Pretty good chances it's Child Slave made. Oh and the materials of the Apartment/House they live in? Imported from a country that used child slaves to gather.

But hey, free-trade chocolate gonna save the world broski. I feel ya.


#46

Covar

Covar

ElJuski said:
and God Forbid that at some point people might realize that Child Slavery is a bad thing. But no, unless it's already A HUGELY KNOWN DEAL, it's not worth the effort.
Click to expand...
Hey until it instantly becomes a national issue out of thin air, why bother?

Fun Fact about Rome: It was built in a day.


#47

BananaHands

BananaHands

You know, at least these people are at doing something and in some cases are informing others.

No one has any right to sit on some pedestal and talk down on these people because they're doing these things to feel better about themselves or to feel superior, especially when you choose inaction.


#48

HowDroll

HowDroll

Shegokigo said:
Might as well tell them about the clothes and jewelry they're most likely wearing too. Pretty good chances it's Child Slave made. Oh and the materials of the Apartment/House they live in? Imported from a country that used child slaves to gather.

But hey, free-trade chocolate gonna save the world broski. I feel ya.
Click to expand...
Don't forget all of the electronics made at Foxconn in China, which maybe isn't slavery ($0.35/hour, party tiem!!!), but they do have to put up anti-suicide nets to keep the workers from jumping off the roof.


#49

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

BananaHands said:
No one has any right to sit on some pedestal and talk down on these people because they're doing these things to feel better about themselves or to feel superior, especially when you choose inaction.
Click to expand...
I live in 'Merica! I have the right to talk to anyone however I want. Which by the way we got by killing off an entire nation of people, enslaving another race for years and now enjoy the finer things in life by exploiting yet another.

I totally should draw the line at Child Slavery Chocolate though.


#50

Krisken

Krisken

I guess it's a difference between need and want. I need cheap affordable clothes since I don't really have the means to make my own or afford that which doesn't use cheap labor. Chocolate, however, is something that I want but can make a concerted effort on.

It sucks I can't do more on a personal level to address the wrongs I see in the world, but I do like knowing I am doing what I can within reason without making life unbearable.


#51

BananaHands

BananaHands

Shegokigo said:
I live in 'Merica! I have the right to talk to anyone however I want. Which by the way we got by killing off an entire nation of people, enslaving another race for years and now enjoy the finer things in life by exploiting yet another.

I totally should draw the line at Child Slavery Chocolate though.
Click to expand...
I just find it funny that you criticize others for taking small actions to feel better about themselves while hiding behind statements like that to feel better about yourself.


#52

ElJuski

ElJuski

This whole thread is just one big eye-roll based on the simple fallacy of logic that change has to happen NOW and change has to happen on WIDESPREAD issues. Child slavery isn't going to end tomorrow. But I think it's our duty as moral human beings to strive to adjust and adopt our ways of life to not completely fuck over somebody else. I've been making really big strides in developing myself as a more moral shopper.

But, whatever, being a cynical, whiny brat about it all is much easier. And also inherently American.


#53

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

See, now you understand how trolling works. :D

Again, I'll make it even simpler:

How I view things:

If you think you're changing the world by doing something insignificant? You get an lol and alot of trolling.

If you find out about an injustice, and do something insignificant on large but by action make yourself feel like a better person? You get a smile and a bit of ribbing.

If you want to change the world and do a meaningful attempt at it en large? I'll probably ignore your thread/post while maybe wishing you luck if it benefits me.


#54

BananaHands

BananaHands

Oh, and yes. I've been to the Shenzhen, China and visited some of the plants. I've been involved and developed videos/promotional materials for non-profits around the country that are involved with dealing with child labor laws and environmental concerns. Sure, I feel better about myself because of that... but it's people doing those stupid little movements that somewhat help.

Hell, some of the pressure on Foxconn had Apple go in, pull children out of the plants and forced Foxconn to pay for their schooling.

Shit happens, whether it's guided by hipsters, idiots or whoever.
Added at: 22:18
Shegokigo said:
See, now you understand how trolling works. :D
Click to expand...
...touche.


#55

ElJuski

ElJuski

Personally, I was happy as fuck when I saw an article linked over by a non-profit about Palestinian kids going apeshit over their new Toms.


#56

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

Fyi BHands, what you did was not a supid little movement. It was real progress to something bigger. Kudos to you on that.

Buying a bracelet for "Child Slavery Awareness" then running around town telling people about it and how you're changing the world though? You're a douchebag.

Buying a bracelet for "Child Slavery Awareness" and feeling good about it, while sharing the information with friends so they can do the same? Totally fine.


#57

BananaHands

BananaHands



#58

GasBandit

GasBandit

You assholes better not do anything to endanger my supply of tragedy chocolate.


#59

ElJuski

ElJuski

Okay, I see where this is coming from. You're more pissed off at the fact that some people would be saying, "neener neener I'm saving the world", versus someone quietly doing so on their own?

Because in that case, I'm way there with you. I hate douchebags that tout it like they're fucking awesome. I just do it because I want to be a good person.
Added at: 22:39
Which, PS, has, and again, the Toms, been such a nagging point of those goddamn shoes. I really liked my Toms knock-offs, and my Penguins, so I thought to myself, well, might as well do some good in this world. When I got those shoes, though, I threw out that stupid fucking flag, stickers, etc that came with them. I'm not in it for the attention.

I'm in it to have sex with glasses wearing bitches.


#60

PatrThom

PatrThom

The way things look, it's about to become something more people pay attention to.
I'm sure many of you remember when a significant portion of the world's chocolate was purchased by a hedge fund. And why do you think that happened?

This is what happens when institutional investors think outside the box. Any furor over child slavery will drive up prices as the labor becomes more expensive. As it is right now, some farmers aren't working their crops just because there isn't enough profit in it when done "honestly." This is also lowering supply (and ultimately driving up costs even more). Some people are doing something about it, but there's still going to be that labor problem. However you look at it, chocolate prices (a lot like gasoline prices) are going to keep going up. And as more and more uses are found for it, demand will keep increasing.

Shegokigo said:
Buying a bracelet for "Child Slavery Awareness" then running around town telling people about it and how you're changing the world though? You're a douchebag.
Buying a bracelet for "Child Slavery Awareness" and feeling good about it, while sharing the information with friends so they can do the same? Totally fine.
Click to expand...
Shego just can't abide slacktivism, that's all.


--Patrick


#61

figmentPez

figmentPez

Shegokigo said:
I'm saying that because you choose to pass on a $1.50 chocolate, and maybe you convinced 3-4 friends not to spend it. You "hit" the big company for a couple hundre while they continue to make millions. You didn't accomplish anything outside of making yourself feel better. Again, nothing wrong with that, but it is what it is.
Click to expand...
If, instead of that $1.50 chocolate, you instead buy a $3.00 fair-trade chocolate bar, then you have accomplished something. It's a very small something, but if people buy more fair-trade chocolate, then more fair-trade chocolate will be produced. If there is more fair-trade being produced, it will be easier to find and buy, and the threshold of switching over will be lower, and other people will be more likely to buy fair-trade as well.

It's not that unlike the organic food movement (though the ethical issues are wildly different). Buying organic doesn't suddenly put a stop to farming methods using pesticides, artificial fertilizers and antibiotics, but buying organic does increase the amount of organic food produced. It can have a very real impact on the market; just look at how many stores and restaurants now offer organic produce and meat compared to a decade ago. If an increasing number of people are willing to buy something, then that product will be available in increasing numbers. It's not that complicated.

Consumer buying habits really do shape the industry. It's not an all-or-nothing proposition.


#62

BananaHands

BananaHands

Guys, I already posted the Respek Knuckles. I thought that was a good capping point.


#63

Jay

Jay

Clicked on this thread..... then

8kDCg.png


#64

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

ElJuski said:
I'm in it to have sex with glasses wearing bitches.
Click to expand...
Don't have sex with glasses, no matter how many bitches they might wear.


#65



Overflight

OK, I just happened to walk by this thread and decided to show how much of a horrible person I am. I mean, give my perspective on it.

The thing is I can kind of see Shego's point. But look at it from an even bigger picture. So you won't buy chocolate because it supports child slavery. Fine. However, you do realize that to say that you used a computer that also used materials that involve child labor and a series of other atrocities, don't you? And why stop there? Let's look at other things. Did you know Coca-Cola was behind union leader murders in South America in the 70s? And that to this day the production of Coca-Cola uses up a ton of water that would be better used elsewhere? Then of course there's the whole thing about organic food, etc. But how do you know if they are following practices accordingly? Etc, etc, etc.

If you look deeply enough you will see the full extent as to why several people claim our entire WAY OF LIFE on Earth is an abomination. So what are you going to do about it? Are you honestly going to live off the grid in some fully self sustainable household? Or will you simply kill yourself? If you're a sane person you probably won't do the latter and if you're an "ordinary" person you won't do the former. I won't do neither.

When I was young I wanted to change the world. As I stated in another thread, I thought my "giftedness" gave me the "duty" to do so. But I was largely ignorant of the world's problems. To put it simply there are just too many of them. And often trying to find the most "important" ones is often a fool's errand. However, this isn't an excuse to do nothing. Using that as an excuse is the perfect example of the Nirvana fallacy. So the only way to not lose your mind (for me at least) is a more "selfish" approach: focus on the cause that is most important to you in the matter that you find most appropriate. Because honestly if you force yourself to do so, not only will you be less effective but eventually you'll eventually give up and be no use to anyone. Your conscience won't allow you to consume chocolate yet you keep on using a computer? Embrace the cognitive dissonance. You want to donate to your neighborhood's soup kitchen even though technically the people there are better off than children starving in Africa? Go ahead.

Just do me a favor: inform people about the consequences of what they're doing but allow them to make their own decision. And don't give me the "But the majority of people are IDIOTS" argument. Idiocracy was just a movie. Get over it.


#66

ElJuski

ElJuski

WE SHOULD ALL JUST KILL OURSELVES INSTEAD OF JUST TRYING TO MAKE THE WORLD JUST THAT MUCH OF A BETTER PLACE


#67

fade

fade

ElJuski said:
WE SHOULD ALL JUST KILL OURSELVES INSTEAD OF JUST TRYING TO MAKE THE WORLD JUST THAT MUCH OF A BETTER PLACE
Click to expand...
That actually would MAKE the world a better place if some people I can think of did it.


#68

ElJuski

ElJuski

probably. But, that probably isn't going to happen. SO, choosing to develop yourself as a more sustainable person is a pretty reasonable alternative BUT OH GOD WHY BOTHER FUCK IT ALL FUCK IT ALLLLLLLLLL


#69

drifter

drifter



#70

Mathias

Mathias

Shegokigo said:
Choosing not to buy slave chocolate is as effective as giving up beef and being vegan.

You don't accomplish a damn thing other than depriving yourself of something ridiculously delicious. The chocolate company isn't going to be so distraught by the very small minority of people suddenly not buying their product. Oh and saying "Well if I can lead more people to do it by example then we'll eventually get somewhere" fails completely in this world of soon to be Wall-E/Idiocracy humanity.
Click to expand...
Wow that's a pretty stupid philosophy.

"World's already going to hell, fuck it and everyone in it."
Added at: 22:28
Shegokigo said:
I think the confusion here is that people are assuming that I said "Never fight for any cause, it'll never get anywhere".

I'm saying that because you choose to pass on a $1.50 chocolate, and maybe you convinced 3-4 friends not to spend it. You "hit" the big company for a couple hundre while they continue to make millions. You didn't accomplish anything outside of making yourself feel better. Again, nothing wrong with that, but it is what it is.

I also never said I don't find anything good about massive National Movements with real impact on issues that concern the betterment of the world. If this was a discussion about said movement, I would have commented something along the lines of "Here's hoping they succeed so I can start buying more children at warehouse prices".

Trolls, if you want to troll a troll, realize you need to fully read a post before ranting off. I will call you out on it and make you look like a first time 4chan poster asking how to do a triforce.
Click to expand...
I frankly don't care if it "hurts" the chocolate companies or not. I won't buy things that promote child slavery on moral principle. Fuck that shit.


#71

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

Moral principle. :rofl:

Stupid philosophy? Watch out for myself and fuck the world? I don't see the downside (for me). I'll be long gone before any of my slave chocolate buying "hurts the world". Enjoy the other 99% of things in your life gained by the suffering of others, Mr. Moral Principle.


#72

Terrik

Terrik

mr_thehun said:
On a thread related topic. I am certainly changing my chocolate buying patterns.

Suicide:
Foxconns suicide rate is actually below the national average considering there are a couple hundred thousand people working in that factory. Nobody is being forced to work there and they would have to lie about their age to be below the national working age.

Salary:
you have to think in Yuan not US dollars. People in China buy houses with Yuan not U.S. Dollars. People buy food with Yuan not U.S. dollars. People pay for public transit with yuan not U.S. dollars. Do you know how much transit costs in Beijing? Bus: 50 Chinese cents which is about .9 of a U.S. penny. Subway 1 yuan which is about 1/6 of a dollar ten years ago that was 1/9th of a dollar.

1800 yuan is for the lowest paid position in the company. We are talking completely uneducated (completely) , untrained, unskilled labor that in North America would be begging on the street and if wages in China continue to rise (and the legal minimum working wage in China has been increased 8 times in the last year), these people will most likely be begging on the street.

Factory Conditions:
Conditions in the factory themselves are not bad at all. The factory has a movie theater, swimming pool, gym, supermarket, etc that is heavily subsidized by the company. The people I've met who used to work at foxconn (your average working stiff who are now working in our factory) certainly do not complain about the working conditions they used to have at Foxconn. If anything they complain that they were fired and then over the next couple of months emphasize why they were fired.

The reason it's getting so much bad press is completely related to why Apple was getting sued by a company that made imac clones in the late 90's.

Seriously people. Don't just lap up everything you see in the media and realize not everywhere in the world CAN be like north America. We take up the majority of the worlds resources. Do you know what the 99% look like to the rest of the world? The people complaining about the 1% of the 99%.
Added at: 10:22
Click to expand...
That's right, some people don't realize how far money can go in China. Back in 2006 when I went to China for the first time, I was living at Wuhan University and living off 1600RMB/month which at that time was about $200 at the time. I could pay for all of my food/transportation/entertainment and party timez and still have $100 left over at the end of the month. Salary can be lower in China, but your expenses are lower too. I use to buy Breakfast/Lunch/Dinner daily in Shenyang for a grand total of 25RMB, or about $3.50.


#73

figmentPez

figmentPez

There are some pretty big differences between chocolate and computers. I can live without chocolate, but taking part in modern society requires a computer. There is fair trade chocolate available, but I know of no way of ensuring a computer was made in such a fashion. There are likely other differences as well, but just based on those the most effective course of action to make changes shifts drastically.


#74

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

You still wouldn't buy a computer if there was a "fair trade" version available if it cost hundreds more.

Oh yeah and your reply comes off like:

"I'm only morally conscious if it's convienient to me."


#75



Soliloquy

Shegs, why is it that in this thread you're going out of your way to try to change people's opinions on something that clearly doesn't affect you?


#76

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

Because it's a blind opinion. One that's narrow minded and self-serving yet they act like it's some kind of "higher moral choice".


#77



Soliloquy

Well, haven't we all benefitted from people making those kinds of choices in the past? And doesn't the perpetuation of that kind of mindset help lead to a society in which everyone ultimately benefits from these "higher moral choices," as you put it?

I don't want to live in a world where no one takes the initiative to make those kinds of choices.

Your viewpoint that these kinds of choices and decisions don't ultimately matter only makes sense if you disregard the entire history of everything ever.


#78

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

No, my viewpoint is that those kinds of choices and decisions only matter if you make the ones that do. Not eating "Slave Chocolate" does nothing. Starting a local chapter in your city about raising awareness of this "Slave Chocolate" and creating a massive boycott of those sales though? Then you have some ground to stand on. I on the other hand don't care either way because my personal life is more important to me than the betterment of others or "mankind".

I already stated really clearly before, if you're doing it for your own "makes me feel better" reasons. Then fine. Acting like you just saved 100,000 slave children because of your choice not to spend $1.50? Then you're a hilarious person.

*Notice: I never claimed anyone in this thread is the latter.


#79

Bowielee

Bowielee

And yet, you espouse the awsomeness of Anonymous...

So which is it, we should do nothing based on moral priciple, or do something based on moral principle? I'm getting mixed signals.


#80

@Li3n

@Li3n

Shegokigo said:
Stupid philosophy? Watch out for myself and fuck the world? I don't see the downside (for me). I'll be long gone before any of my slave chocolate buying "hurts the world".
Click to expand...

And because you're the only person in the world that thinks like that your philosophy has no discernible effect on anything whatsoever... :rolleyes:

Shegokigo said:
if you're doing it for your own "makes me feel better" reasons. Then fine. Acting like you just saved 100,000 slave children because of your choice not to spend $1.50?
Click to expand...

Hey, look, we're playing "Guess the fallacy!"... i'll go with "What is a False Dichotomy!"

What do i win?



Terrik said:
That's right, some people don't realize how far money can go in China. Back in 2006 when I went to China for the first time, I was living at Wuhan University and living off 1600RMB/month which at that time was about $200 at the time. I could pay for all of my food/transportation/entertainment and party timez and still have $100 left over at the end of the month. Salary can be lower in China, but your expenses are lower too. I use to buy Breakfast/Lunch/Dinner daily in Shenyang for a grand total of 25RMB, or about $3.50.
Click to expand...
Heh, i make more then 200$ because the dollar went down the drain compared to the Euro...


But the problem in China isn't the salary or the facilities... it's the way they threat the worker... sure, it's better then starving, but that's no reason not to complain about it until it gets better...

Really, pools, gyms and all that + crammed shared workers bedrooms = exactly the way communism was over here... and we shot our dear leader.


#81

ElJuski

ElJuski

man, this thread would be great if people got over the fact that this isn't a black or white issue, and that small changes can equal big differences over time.


#82

Mathias

Mathias

Shegokigo said:
You still wouldn't buy a computer if there was a "fair trade" version available if it cost hundreds more.

Oh yeah and your reply comes off like:

"I'm only morally conscious if it's convienient to me."
Click to expand...
...we're talking about chocolate that's like a buck or two more than the regular kind. You're being a fucking retard.
Added at: 07:26
Shegokigo said:
No, my viewpoint is that those kinds of choices and decisions only matter if you make the ones that do. Not eating "Slave Chocolate" does nothing. Starting a local chapter in your city about raising awareness of this "Slave Chocolate" and creating a massive boycott of those sales though? Then you have some ground to stand on. I on the other hand don't care either way because my personal life is more important to me than the betterment of others or "mankind".

I already stated really clearly before, if you're doing it for your own "makes me feel better" reasons. Then fine. Acting like you just saved 100,000 slave children because of your choice not to spend $1.50? Then you're a hilarious person.

*Notice: I never claimed anyone in this thread is the latter.
Click to expand...

Sure it does. You're helping make the world a slightly less shitty place by not contributing to the problem yourself. Same goes for things like throwing garbage out of your car window. You could say that the littering doesn't matter because there's already trash on the ground everywhere, or you could not be a fucking drain on the world and just throw it out into a trash can. By your philosophy you shouldn't recycle either. You shouldn't give a shit about possibly buying blood diamonds. These are all easy things you can do or stop doing.

And don't give me the 99% of other things bullshit.


#83

strawman

strawman

To say that doing this is the same as doing nothing is to deny the existence and creation of the Grand Canyon.


#84

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

Mathias said:
...we're talking about chocolate that's like a buck or two more than the regular kind. You're being a fucking retard.
Click to expand...
Sorry I should have said "When it's financially convienient for you". My bad.

Mathias said:
Sure it does. You're helping make the world a slightly less shitty place by not contributing to the problem yourself.
Click to expand...
You'll never see the results of your "good works" in your lifetime. I don't do things unless they directly benefit me. I could give a shit about the "bigger picture".

Mathias said:
By your philosophy you shouldn't recycle either. You shouldn't give a shit about possibly buying blood diamonds. These are all easy things you can do or stop doing.
Click to expand...
I don't recycle, I buy diamonds based on cost to me, not where they come from and the only reason I don't litter is because of the fines associated with it. Why? Because again, I'm not going to pretend that if I did any of the above, it'd have any lasting or realistic impact on the world other than to make me feel better about myself. Which by the way, I feel just fine about myself by not doing all those things.

Mathias said:
And don't give me the 99% of other things bullshit.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I won't hit you over the head with reality, you're obviously not getting it. You're being "financially moral" not trying to make a difference. ;)


#85

fade

fade

One major problem I have with your argument, Shego, is that "you're only doing it to feel better about yourself" is a classical tautology. Of course it's true. It's always true, regardless of whether it actually helps people or not. I mean, the whole reason anyone is motivated to do anything is because something is out of equilibrium with their world view.


#86

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

The key word is "only". Of course people who create fund raisers and awareness groups are doing it to make themselves feel better, but they're also doing it to make a lasting and real impact in the world. The ones I'm referring to are "only" doing it to make themselves feel better.

@Pez - You can passive aggressively disagree with my posts all you want, doesn't make them any less incorrect.


#87

fade

fade

But there's no such thing as only feeling good. They feel good for a reason.


#88

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

When did I deny that? The reason they feel good is because of the blind "truth" they tell themselves. That they're having some kind of major impact on the world by not buying $1.50 items. Yet they walk right around the corner and spend hundreds and thousands of dollars on items that do support the "cause" they're fighting for.

Again, if the goal is just not to participate in promoting Child Slavery and they realize they're really not changing anything, yet it makes them feel good about themselves, then I have no problem with it.

stienman said:
I'm rubber, you're glue lol lol lol

:awesome:
Click to expand...
Not fast enough Stiney ;)


#89

Espy

Espy

This thread is starting to feel like a Merry Go Round. And not the fun kind. The kind where the kid in front of you throws up and it smacks you in the face.


#90

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

Because it is. It's the same circle argument over and over.

I poke fun at "Arm Chair Activists" and I get told "You don't get it". When noone's reading my posts to begin with. They think I'm making fun of them for feeling better about themselves for not supporting the product. That's not the case.

Again:

I don't take issue with people who do not support something they don't want to promote.

I take issue with people who do not support something they don't want to promote and act like they're making a real difference in the world while being hypocritical about it in every other aspect of their life.

I don't get the problem here.


#91

strawman

strawman

Shegokigo said:
I don't get the problem here.
Click to expand...
We know. It's just hard for us to give up on you. If we were you, we would have given up on you after your first post.


#92

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

You're hilarious when you're trying to be condesending. It only works when you're right.


#93

GasBandit

GasBandit

Here, let's have a peace offering. Can I interest anybody in a Rolo? Or a reese's cup? They're REALLY good.


#94

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

Related note: It's cute how Pez is following me around this thread disagreeing with my posts but has no real counter-point to make that has any basis.

Related note: This Reese's Fast Break I bought on the way to work IS delicious.


#95

strawman

strawman

Shegokigo said:
You're hilarious when you're trying to be condesending. It only works when you're right.
Click to expand...


#96

figmentPez

figmentPez

Shegokigo said:
Related note: It's cute how Pez is following me around this thread disagreeing with my posts but has no real counter-point to make that has any basis.
Click to expand...
That's funny, I was hoping you'd finally realize that you never actually refuted my logic. You've completely ignored my reasoning on why buying fair trade chocolate can make a difference. You also resorted to ad hominem attacks, which are pointless to attempt to counter-point, since you've judged me solely by your prejudices.


#97

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

I read. You didn't.

You took offence by not understanding the type of person I was taking issue with.

Unless you think you're making some kind of real impact on the world by not spending $1.50 on Chocolate and don't feel it's hypocritical to continue to use other everyday items that do support the cause you're "fighting against" because it's not "financially convienient" for you? Then I have no issue with you.


#98

Espy

Espy

I dunno Sheg, your first two posts in this thread say that buying FT chocolate is ineffetive and only serves the purpose of making oneself feel better, which was in response to me. Which by the way, is fine if thats the view you hold too. I disagree but, hey, thats life right?

I think the REAL problem discussion-wise is that you seem to have narrowed your view of the "type of person" since your first few posts. So maybe people are just reacting to the base line they feel that you set up that now seems to have changed rather than responding to some of the nuance you have started using.


#99

figmentPez

figmentPez

Shegokigo said:
I read. You didn't.
Click to expand...
Didn't what? Didn't make an argument at all? I'm pretty sure I actually said something. I never said I proved my point, just that my reasoning went unchallenged. It's pretty damn hypocritical to whine about a lack of counter-point when you've completely failed to provide one of your own further than "nu-uh!"

EDIT: fixed a damn weird typo.


#100

strawman

strawman

She's just trolling at this point. We all disagree with her first statement, but her second statement is merely her saying that we're all hypocrites, then defying us to prove otherwise. It's a straight up insult, though she's not incorrect. The issue is that there's friction between the two. She's implying that even if we're having an effect on the world, as we claim, then it merely turns us into hypocrites unless we go all the way to the other extreme of making sure that nothing in our lives cause unnecessary human suffering. The implied assertion is that being a hypocrite is a bad thing, and we should adopt her philosophy instead, that since we can't do everything, we should do nothing and instead live isolated lives, fulfilling only our own pleasure, regardless of the effect it has on others.

Unless I'm trolling her, and merely trying to make her keep responding. I'm not sure I could objectively tell whether I'm responding because I'm being goaded, or because I'm interested in goading. Probably a mixture of the two, and I'm most certainly a hypocrite in this and many other ways.

But I'm making a difference, so it's ok to act hypocritical and work towards the goal of better aligning my actions with my beliefs, though I know I will never arrive at the spot where I can say I'm not a hypocrite.


#101

SpecialKO

SpecialKO

I'm completely mystified at this point...it almost sounds like Shego is saying that I shouldn't feel good about going out of my way to buy household products sold in recycled plastic because I didn't install solar panels on my roof.

The first makes a much smaller difference than the second, but I can afford the first and not (currently) the second. But instead of being glad that I can at least afford the first now and plan for the second in the future, I shouldn't be doing it in the first place? What? :confused:


#102

Shegokigo

Shegokigo



Shegokigo said:
Again:

I don't take issue with people who do not support something they don't want to promote.

I take issue with people who do not support something they don't want to promote and act like they're making a real difference in the world while being hypocritical about it in every other aspect of their life.
Click to expand...


#103

SpecialKO

SpecialKO

So...then you would consider me a hypocrite.

Well, I guess I have to be okay with that, and simply strive to do better in a more liquid future.

*Shrug* Not sure what the big deal is.


#104

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

Do you walk around, telling people that based on your actions you're changing the world while still using other products that complete obliviate your small actions or do you content yourself that you're doing your small part in a bigger picture and leave it at that?

Because if you're doing the first, then yes you are. If you're doing the second, I (for the 80th time) do not draw issue with that and even say "Kudos to you".


#105

strawman

strawman

Shegokigo said:
Do you walk around, telling people that based on your actions you're changing the world while still using other products that complete obliviate your small actions or do you content yourself that you're doing your small part in a bigger picture and leave it at that?
Click to expand...


#106

SpecialKO

SpecialKO

..so you just want people to STFU and save the planet (or don't)? That's cool.


#107

strawman

strawman

On the other hand, to some degree there's an undercurrent of, "If you're buying reese's you're condemning children to slavery" in this thread, so perhaps Shego's just defending herself from that implied judgement....


#108

SpecialKO

SpecialKO

This does seem a lot like another Halforums we-agree-in-principle-just-violently-disagree-on-semantics-I'm-up-for-some-antics-fuck-you-I'm-a-tastemaker kind of thing.


#109

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

stienman said:
On the other hand, to some degree there's an undercurrent of, "If you're buying reese's you're condemning children to slavery" in this thread, so perhaps Shego's just defending herself from that implied judgement....
Click to expand...
I honestly don't care either way how people view me personally because I honestly don't care about where the world's going if it doesn't affect me. I'm self-absorbed like that. I eat Reese's (I really did have a fast break this morning) because I like it, how it got to the store and in my hands doesn't bother me one bit.

Also: I judge because I have no problems with people judging me right back. Why? Because I defend what I believe in and don't fool myself into believing I'm doing something that I'm not really doing.

@SpecialKO - I never said people had to STFU, I even said I'd give people kudos for saying that they felt good about doing their small part. I said people who claim to be the second coming of a messiah because they didnt' spend $1.50 are who I'm going to make fun of. I don't see how you can still be confused on my position.


#110

GasBandit

GasBandit

I, for one, like to save the trees.

By wiping my ass with spotted owls.


#111

fade

fade

You can make a conscious decision to change one thing in your life without having (possibly yet) changed all parts of it. That's not necessarily hypocritical. Maybe you haven't gotten around to it. Maybe those other issues don't mean as much to you. Maybe you're simply not aware. There are a million reasons aside from hypocrisy.


#112

SpecialKO

SpecialKO

I think she just means that you have to act like a saint before you tell people you're a saint, but as long as you're not self-sanctifying, saint away.


#113

Shegokigo

Shegokigo



#114

GasBandit

GasBandit

SpecialKO said:
I think she just means that you have to act like a saint before you tell people you're a saint, but as long as you're not self-sanctifying, saint away.
Click to expand...
Third street represent.



#115

SpecialKO

SpecialKO

Oooooh. All of a sudden, it all makes sense.


#116

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

GasBandit said:
Third street represent.

Click to expand...
That picture made me cringe and then laugh.


#117

Krisken

Krisken

FUCK YOU GUYS I LIKE CHOCOLATE.


#118

strawman

strawman

Krisken said:
FUCK YOU GUYS I LIKE CHOCOLATE.
Click to expand...
What's up with your avatar? Were you teleported into a misshapen, gangrenous thumb?


#119

Krisken

Krisken

stienman said:
What's up with your avatar? Were you teleported into a misshapen, gangrenous thumb?
Click to expand...
No, it's still cold outside and I need my balaklava. Unfortunately, I kinda look like a sand worm with a House face.


#120

fade

fade

It's probably because of the lupus.


#121

Krisken

Krisken

fade said:
It's probably because of the lupus.
Click to expand...
It's because my series is ovah! Left out in the cold, as it were.


#122

strawman

strawman

If you could turn your thumbprint into an image of house, that would be rad when the police had to fingerprint you. You'd be a little police celebrity, and they'd pass around your fingerprints like trading cards. You'd get asked a lot why your thumbprint is like that.

To which there's really only one correct answer.


#123

ElJuski

ElJuski

When I go to the store, I try and not buy chocolate bars. I also try to buy certified fair trade and all that other stuff at the regular supermarket, too. I don't get a raging hard on and slap Reese's out of people's hands at the checkout line. I have told my friends and family about something new I learned about the chocolate trade.

I don't think that makes me an awful, nor a misguided, person.


#124

GasBandit

GasBandit

I thought the avatar was House being eaten by some kind of lizard, feet first.


#125

SpecialKO

SpecialKO

ElJuski said:
I don't get a raging hard on and slap Reese's out of people's hands at the checkout line.
Click to expand...
Going by the recent direction of this thread, that definitely keeps you from being a saint. ;)


#126

GasBandit

GasBandit

Dear god, you guys, look at this:



#127

ElJuski

ElJuski

Not a big fan of thin mints, but if they made those lemon cookies


#128

Covar

Covar

GasBandit said:
Dear god, you guys, look at this:

Click to expand...


#129

Frank

Frankie Williamson

Chocolate bars are gross, you'd all be better people not eating them. Now if they told me bags of Ms. Vickie's Sea Salt and Malt Vinegar chips were made by child slave labor, I'd be pissed off.


#130

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

I don't buy any kind of chocolate, so I'm better than everybody else because THAT'S MORE FOR YOU.


#131

Mathias

Mathias

Shegokigo said:
Do you walk around, telling people that based on your actions you're changing the world while still using other products that complete obliviate your small actions or do you content yourself that you're doing your small part in a bigger picture and leave it at that?

Because if you're doing the first, then yes you are. If you're doing the second, I (for the 80th time) do not draw issue with that and even say "Kudos to you".
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure no one is saying that. What we're saying is doing something is better than nothing.

Here's the "complex math" so you can understand.

a + b = 2

a = buying slave labor chocolate
b = buying sweat shop sneakers

Say someone stops buying the chocolate but still buys sneakers.

2-a = 1

Did that person lessen the shitty factor of the world? Yes.


#132

BananaHands

BananaHands



#133

GasBandit

GasBandit

Suck on my


#134

Necronic

Necronic

I definitely appreciate the implied statements in here against voting. Because if you're stupid enough to accept that argument I would rather you not vote (and I would rather have a larger say in the election nbd.)

And anyways back to the thread this kind of sucks. There are few production methods that I feel are sufficiently immoral enough to bother me enough into making me change my purchasing. Suprisingly, child slavery falls into that.


#135

GasBandit

GasBandit

Were you in on the discussion I had about making green energy by building new air conditioners based on the souls of murdered orphans, since paranormal activity always seems to make the localized temperature drop into the 40s?


#136

Necronic

Necronic

I would respond but I moved away from the mic so I could breathe.

Chocolate Rain is 100% fair trade btw.


#137

ElJuski

ElJuski

what is this, 2007?


#138

Necronic

Necronic

Says the guy with the Simpsons avatar.


#139

GasBandit

GasBandit

Necronic said:
Says the guy with the Simpsons avatar.
Click to expand...
With a frame from a 1995 episode, none the less.


#140

ElJuski

ElJuski

Greatest television show of all time orrrrrrrrrrrr shitty internet meme.

I'd say YOU DECIDE, but it's Halforums, the jokes are always going to come dated and beaten to the ground.


babababoosh


#141

GasBandit

GasBandit

ElJuski said:
it's Halforums, the jokes are always going to come dated and beaten to the ground.
Click to expand...
And the dates will also be joked about being beaten into the ground!


#142

LittleSin

LittleSin

Does my favorite treat, chocolate milk count in this? If so, I may have a problem.

Also, apparently it is impossible to find fair trade chocolate chips in this province. :(


#143

Necronic

Necronic

I accidentally ate a twix within an hour of my post yesterday saying I would stop.


#144

Bowielee

Bowielee

lol, I'm just picturing a twix bar falling off a high shelf into your mouth...


#145

drifter

drifter

Necronic said:
I accidentally ate a twix within an hour of my post yesterday saying I would stop.
Click to expand...


#146

GasBandit

GasBandit

Soooo good... can taste the suffering... sooooo good.



#147

GasBandit

GasBandit

Daily what has the inside scoop on two more flavors for those nestle girl scout cookie bars:



Tagalong and Samoa.


#148

LittleSin

LittleSin

So, I told my sister about my no chocolate initiative. She got really mad at me about it for some reason. I wasn't preaching to her. She just offered to but me a bar and politely declined then, when she asked why, I explained.

Then she started rolling her eyes and saying "But the tears add flavour!" I decided I wasn't going to argue with her aobut it because, well, we were in the mall. She wouldn't let it drop.

Then she told me I should go for broke and stop shopping at Old Navy then because they use child slaves as well. My heart stopped. Old Navy is some of the comfiest clothing ever! I despaired at the thought of giving them up but I prepared to do so.

Untiul I actually researched it. Gap/Old Navy has contracted to people in the past that use child labour but the last instance was in 2006 and they cut ties with that company. Actually, since 2000, they have cut ties with 25 companies that were using child labour.

I am actually relieved.

However, I am still puzzled by my sisters reaction.


#149

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

Hot Tip: There's at least 10-20 products in your house at all times that have come from death labor.


#150

Krisken

Krisken

And I'm sure when I become aware of the injustice involved in those products I'll take similar action as I did regarding the chocolate.


#151

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

Oh I'm sure you will.


#152

Krisken

Krisken

Glad we could come to a consensus.


#153

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

LittleSin said:
However, I am still puzzled by my sisters reaction.
Click to expand...
Because she thinks you're judging her. It doesn't matter if you're not or say you're not, because people can get offended just by someone not doing what they're doing. Same reason people who drink get offended by those who don't, people who watch TV get offended by those who don't, people who are religious get offended by those who aren't, etc. and so on.


#154

LittleSin

LittleSin

Quotemander Prime said:
Because she thinks you're judging her. It doesn't matter if you're not or say you're not, because people can get offended just by someone not doing what they're doing. Same reason people who drink get offended by those who don't, people who watch TV get offended by those who don't, people who are religious get offended by those who aren't, etc. and so on.
Click to expand...
I was afraid that was the reason. I even intentionally tried to word it in a way that didn't make it sound "holier than thou".

I mean, I go to art festivals. The folks you meet at those events are some of the most gronola people you will ever meet. For the 24 hour art festival they pay for your meals but I actually have to make arrangements to eat elsewhere because the meals always consist of salad and other 'good things'. If you aren't doing the things they are doing, like using 'cups' instead of tampons or some shit you will be judged to high hell.

I try not to do that.


#155

Bowielee

Bowielee

um... cups...

Nope, please don't elaborate...


#156

Frank

Frankie Williamson

There's a Rocky Mountain Chocolate Factory in the mall just down the hill from where I live. They have these enormous peanut butter cups that are way bigger than all 3 Reese cups combined for like 2 bucks. If I ever get a hankering, I go there.


#157

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

They have child slaves chained up in the backrooms making the chocolate Frankie. After they get fat and tender enough, they sell em off to your favorite steakhouse for fileting.


#158

Frank

Frankie Williamson

Noice. No meat more tender than them fat little chitrens.


#159

GasBandit

GasBandit

No matter what you do, if you are living a comfy life, no matter how green or slave-free or whatever you buy and live, your money travels down the line into the hands of people who are paid less than you to make the things you use and perform the services you need. If they aren't buying slave chocolate, driving polluting cars or buying slave-made clothes, then you simply haven't followed the chain down far enough - the next person down most certainly is. And there's waaaaay more of them then there are of you.

And the tears DO make it taste better, anyway.


#160

Mathias

Mathias

GasBandit said:
No matter what you do, if you are living a comfy life, no matter how green or slave-free or whatever you buy and live, your money travels down the line into the hands of people who are paid less than you to make the things you use and perform the services you need. If they aren't buying slave chocolate, driving polluting cars or buying slave-made clothes, then you simply haven't followed the chain down far enough - the next person down most certainly is. And there's waaaaay more of them then there are of you.

And the tears DO make it taste better, anyway.
Click to expand...
Do I have to keep repeating myself? What the hell is wrong with just making a small change to attempt to make life less shitty for someone else? If enough people make small changes, they out number those that don't, and shit gets better.


#161

strawman

strawman

GasBandit said:
No matter what you do, if you are living a comfy life, no matter how green or slave-free or whatever you buy and live, your money travels down the line into the hands of people who are paid less than you to make the things you use and perform the services you need. If they aren't buying slave chocolate, driving polluting cars or buying slave-made clothes, then you simply haven't followed the chain down far enough - the next person down most certainly is. And there's waaaaay more of them then there are of you.

And the tears DO make it taste better, anyway.
Click to expand...
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=starfish+story


#162

GasBandit

GasBandit

Mathias said:
Do I have to keep repeating myself? What the hell is wrong with just making a small change to attempt to make life less shitty for someone else? If enough people make small changes, they out number those that don't, and shit gets better.
Click to expand...
Kinda like if enough people decide to vote for a 3rd party, maybe the 2 party monopoly will be broken?

stienman said:
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=starfish story
Click to expand...
When in actuality, he was just throwing the starfish back to the manta rays to be eaten.


#163

Necronic

Necronic

Gas you DO vote libertarian, or at least have in the past. That's way more a pipe dream than consumer advocacy.


#164

GasBandit

GasBandit

Necronic said:
Gas you DO vote libertarian, or at least have in the past. That's way more a pipe dream than consumer advocacy.
Click to expand...
Math has his windmills to tilt, I have mine. We both make fun of each other.


#165

Krisken

Krisken

GasBandit said:
Math has his windmills to tilt, I have mine. We both make fun of each other.
Click to expand...
And we appreciate the show.


#166

Necronic

Necronic

Actually the Windmill Show is pretty bad, as is all Dutch Television.

But I do like watching those two go at it.


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