Our chocolate still comes at a cost...
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BananaHands
Staff member
Yeah, you're right. Child slavery is much worse than a few people not being able to marry.
I'll let you figure out what's hilariously off about your comparison.
I'm talking about retail companies not caring if a small vocal minority stop buying their product not having any real effect on the industry.
How does that compare to Nation Wide movement of equal rights?
For the record, I don't do a damn thing to promote rights for gay marriage either. Again, doesn't effect me, don't try to help.
I would also tell someone who says they stand for gay right because they bought a bracelet for awareness, that they weren't accomplishing a damn thing, much like the chocolate situation.
So I am yet to be trolled by your comparison.
How does that compare to Nation Wide movement of equal rights?
For the record, I don't do a damn thing to promote rights for gay marriage either. Again, doesn't effect me, don't try to help.
I would also tell someone who says they stand for gay right because they bought a bracelet for awareness, that they weren't accomplishing a damn thing, much like the chocolate situation.
So I am yet to be trolled by your comparison.
I think the confusion here is that people are assuming that I said "Never fight for any cause, it'll never get anywhere".
I'm saying that because you choose to pass on a $1.50 chocolate, and maybe you convinced 3-4 friends not to spend it. You "hit" the big company for a couple hundre while they continue to make millions. You didn't accomplish anything outside of making yourself feel better. Again, nothing wrong with that, but it is what it is.
I also never said I don't find anything good about massive National Movements with real impact on issues that concern the betterment of the world. If this was a discussion about said movement, I would have commented something along the lines of "Here's hoping they succeed so I can start buying more children at warehouse prices".
Trolls, if you want to troll a troll, realize you need to fully read a post before ranting off. I will call you out on it and make you look like a first time 4chan poster asking how to do a triforce.
I'm saying that because you choose to pass on a $1.50 chocolate, and maybe you convinced 3-4 friends not to spend it. You "hit" the big company for a couple hundre while they continue to make millions. You didn't accomplish anything outside of making yourself feel better. Again, nothing wrong with that, but it is what it is.
I also never said I don't find anything good about massive National Movements with real impact on issues that concern the betterment of the world. If this was a discussion about said movement, I would have commented something along the lines of "Here's hoping they succeed so I can start buying more children at warehouse prices".
Trolls, if you want to troll a troll, realize you need to fully read a post before ranting off. I will call you out on it and make you look like a first time 4chan poster asking how to do a triforce.
BananaHands
Staff member
Seriously though, how do they do that triforce? It's maddening!
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Added at: 16:04
Is there an option for "buy more chocolate"? Because... that one.
Might as well tell them about the clothes and jewelry they're most likely wearing too. Pretty good chances it's Child Slave made. Oh and the materials of the Apartment/House they live in? Imported from a country that used child slaves to gather.
But hey, free-trade chocolate gonna save the world broski. I feel ya.
Hey until it instantly becomes a national issue out of thin air, why bother?
Fun Fact about Rome: It was built in a day.
BananaHands
Staff member
You know, at least these people are at doing something and in some cases are informing others.
No one has any right to sit on some pedestal and talk down on these people because they're doing these things to feel better about themselves or to feel superior, especially when you choose inaction.
No one has any right to sit on some pedestal and talk down on these people because they're doing these things to feel better about themselves or to feel superior, especially when you choose inaction.
Don't forget all of the electronics made at Foxconn in China, which maybe isn't slavery ($0.35/hour, party tiem!!!), but they do have to put up anti-suicide nets to keep the workers from jumping off the roof.
I live in 'Merica! I have the right to talk to anyone however I want. Which by the way we got by killing off an entire nation of people, enslaving another race for years and now enjoy the finer things in life by exploiting yet another.
I totally should draw the line at Child Slavery Chocolate though.
I guess it's a difference between need and want. I need cheap affordable clothes since I don't really have the means to make my own or afford that which doesn't use cheap labor. Chocolate, however, is something that I want but can make a concerted effort on.
It sucks I can't do more on a personal level to address the wrongs I see in the world, but I do like knowing I am doing what I can within reason without making life unbearable.
It sucks I can't do more on a personal level to address the wrongs I see in the world, but I do like knowing I am doing what I can within reason without making life unbearable.
BananaHands
Staff member
I just find it funny that you criticize others for taking small actions to feel better about themselves while hiding behind statements like that to feel better about yourself.
ElJuski
Staff member
This whole thread is just one big eye-roll based on the simple fallacy of logic that change has to happen NOW and change has to happen on WIDESPREAD issues. Child slavery isn't going to end tomorrow. But I think it's our duty as moral human beings to strive to adjust and adopt our ways of life to not completely fuck over somebody else. I've been making really big strides in developing myself as a more moral shopper.
But, whatever, being a cynical, whiny brat about it all is much easier. And also inherently American.
But, whatever, being a cynical, whiny brat about it all is much easier. And also inherently American.
See, now you understand how trolling works. 
Again, I'll make it even simpler:
How I view things:
If you think you're changing the world by doing something insignificant? You get an lol and alot of trolling.
If you find out about an injustice, and do something insignificant on large but by action make yourself feel like a better person? You get a smile and a bit of ribbing.
If you want to change the world and do a meaningful attempt at it en large? I'll probably ignore your thread/post while maybe wishing you luck if it benefits me.
Again, I'll make it even simpler:
How I view things:
If you think you're changing the world by doing something insignificant? You get an lol and alot of trolling.
If you find out about an injustice, and do something insignificant on large but by action make yourself feel like a better person? You get a smile and a bit of ribbing.
If you want to change the world and do a meaningful attempt at it en large? I'll probably ignore your thread/post while maybe wishing you luck if it benefits me.
BananaHands
Staff member
Oh, and yes. I've been to the Shenzhen, China and visited some of the plants. I've been involved and developed videos/promotional materials for non-profits around the country that are involved with dealing with child labor laws and environmental concerns. Sure, I feel better about myself because of that... but it's people doing those stupid little movements that somewhat help.
Hell, some of the pressure on Foxconn had Apple go in, pull children out of the plants and forced Foxconn to pay for their schooling.
Shit happens, whether it's guided by hipsters, idiots or whoever.
Added at: 22:18
Hell, some of the pressure on Foxconn had Apple go in, pull children out of the plants and forced Foxconn to pay for their schooling.
Shit happens, whether it's guided by hipsters, idiots or whoever.
Added at: 22:18
...touche.See, now you understand how trolling works.
Fyi BHands, what you did was not a supid little movement. It was real progress to something bigger. Kudos to you on that.
Buying a bracelet for "Child Slavery Awareness" then running around town telling people about it and how you're changing the world though? You're a douchebag.
Buying a bracelet for "Child Slavery Awareness" and feeling good about it, while sharing the information with friends so they can do the same? Totally fine.
Buying a bracelet for "Child Slavery Awareness" then running around town telling people about it and how you're changing the world though? You're a douchebag.
Buying a bracelet for "Child Slavery Awareness" and feeling good about it, while sharing the information with friends so they can do the same? Totally fine.
BananaHands
Staff member
ElJuski
Staff member
Okay, I see where this is coming from. You're more pissed off at the fact that some people would be saying, "neener neener I'm saving the world", versus someone quietly doing so on their own?
Because in that case, I'm way there with you. I hate douchebags that tout it like they're fucking awesome. I just do it because I want to be a good person.
Added at: 22:39
Which, PS, has, and again, the Toms, been such a nagging point of those goddamn shoes. I really liked my Toms knock-offs, and my Penguins, so I thought to myself, well, might as well do some good in this world. When I got those shoes, though, I threw out that stupid fucking flag, stickers, etc that came with them. I'm not in it for the attention.
I'm in it to have sex with glasses wearing bitches.
Because in that case, I'm way there with you. I hate douchebags that tout it like they're fucking awesome. I just do it because I want to be a good person.
Added at: 22:39
Which, PS, has, and again, the Toms, been such a nagging point of those goddamn shoes. I really liked my Toms knock-offs, and my Penguins, so I thought to myself, well, might as well do some good in this world. When I got those shoes, though, I threw out that stupid fucking flag, stickers, etc that came with them. I'm not in it for the attention.
I'm in it to have sex with glasses wearing bitches.
The way things look, it's about to become something more people pay attention to.
I'm sure many of you remember when a significant portion of the world's chocolate was purchased by a hedge fund. And why do you think that happened?
This is what happens when institutional investors think outside the box. Any furor over child slavery will drive up prices as the labor becomes more expensive. As it is right now, some farmers aren't working their crops just because there isn't enough profit in it when done "honestly." This is also lowering supply (and ultimately driving up costs even more). Some people are doing something about it, but there's still going to be that labor problem. However you look at it, chocolate prices (a lot like gasoline prices) are going to keep going up. And as more and more uses are found for it, demand will keep increasing.
--Patrick
I'm sure many of you remember when a significant portion of the world's chocolate was purchased by a hedge fund. And why do you think that happened?
This is what happens when institutional investors think outside the box. Any furor over child slavery will drive up prices as the labor becomes more expensive. As it is right now, some farmers aren't working their crops just because there isn't enough profit in it when done "honestly." This is also lowering supply (and ultimately driving up costs even more). Some people are doing something about it, but there's still going to be that labor problem. However you look at it, chocolate prices (a lot like gasoline prices) are going to keep going up. And as more and more uses are found for it, demand will keep increasing.
Shego just can't abide slacktivism, that's all.
--Patrick
figmentPez
Staff member
If, instead of that $1.50 chocolate, you instead buy a $3.00 fair-trade chocolate bar, then you have accomplished something. It's a very small something, but if people buy more fair-trade chocolate, then more fair-trade chocolate will be produced. If there is more fair-trade being produced, it will be easier to find and buy, and the threshold of switching over will be lower, and other people will be more likely to buy fair-trade as well.
It's not that unlike the organic food movement (though the ethical issues are wildly different). Buying organic doesn't suddenly put a stop to farming methods using pesticides, artificial fertilizers and antibiotics, but buying organic does increase the amount of organic food produced. It can have a very real impact on the market; just look at how many stores and restaurants now offer organic produce and meat compared to a decade ago. If an increasing number of people are willing to buy something, then that product will be available in increasing numbers. It's not that complicated.
Consumer buying habits really do shape the industry. It's not an all-or-nothing proposition.
BananaHands
Staff member
Guys, I already posted the Respek Knuckles. I thought that was a good capping point.
Don't have sex with glasses, no matter how many bitches they might wear.
O
Overflight
OK, I just happened to walk by this thread and decided to show how much of a horrible person I am. I mean, give my perspective on it.
The thing is I can kind of see Shego's point. But look at it from an even bigger picture. So you won't buy chocolate because it supports child slavery. Fine. However, you do realize that to say that you used a computer that also used materials that involve child labor and a series of other atrocities, don't you? And why stop there? Let's look at other things. Did you know Coca-Cola was behind union leader murders in South America in the 70s? And that to this day the production of Coca-Cola uses up a ton of water that would be better used elsewhere? Then of course there's the whole thing about organic food, etc. But how do you know if they are following practices accordingly? Etc, etc, etc.
If you look deeply enough you will see the full extent as to why several people claim our entire WAY OF LIFE on Earth is an abomination. So what are you going to do about it? Are you honestly going to live off the grid in some fully self sustainable household? Or will you simply kill yourself? If you're a sane person you probably won't do the latter and if you're an "ordinary" person you won't do the former. I won't do neither.
When I was young I wanted to change the world. As I stated in another thread, I thought my "giftedness" gave me the "duty" to do so. But I was largely ignorant of the world's problems. To put it simply there are just too many of them. And often trying to find the most "important" ones is often a fool's errand. However, this isn't an excuse to do nothing. Using that as an excuse is the perfect example of the Nirvana fallacy. So the only way to not lose your mind (for me at least) is a more "selfish" approach: focus on the cause that is most important to you in the matter that you find most appropriate. Because honestly if you force yourself to do so, not only will you be less effective but eventually you'll eventually give up and be no use to anyone. Your conscience won't allow you to consume chocolate yet you keep on using a computer? Embrace the cognitive dissonance. You want to donate to your neighborhood's soup kitchen even though technically the people there are better off than children starving in Africa? Go ahead.
Just do me a favor: inform people about the consequences of what they're doing but allow them to make their own decision. And don't give me the "But the majority of people are IDIOTS" argument. Idiocracy was just a movie. Get over it.
The thing is I can kind of see Shego's point. But look at it from an even bigger picture. So you won't buy chocolate because it supports child slavery. Fine. However, you do realize that to say that you used a computer that also used materials that involve child labor and a series of other atrocities, don't you? And why stop there? Let's look at other things. Did you know Coca-Cola was behind union leader murders in South America in the 70s? And that to this day the production of Coca-Cola uses up a ton of water that would be better used elsewhere? Then of course there's the whole thing about organic food, etc. But how do you know if they are following practices accordingly? Etc, etc, etc.
If you look deeply enough you will see the full extent as to why several people claim our entire WAY OF LIFE on Earth is an abomination. So what are you going to do about it? Are you honestly going to live off the grid in some fully self sustainable household? Or will you simply kill yourself? If you're a sane person you probably won't do the latter and if you're an "ordinary" person you won't do the former. I won't do neither.
When I was young I wanted to change the world. As I stated in another thread, I thought my "giftedness" gave me the "duty" to do so. But I was largely ignorant of the world's problems. To put it simply there are just too many of them. And often trying to find the most "important" ones is often a fool's errand. However, this isn't an excuse to do nothing. Using that as an excuse is the perfect example of the Nirvana fallacy. So the only way to not lose your mind (for me at least) is a more "selfish" approach: focus on the cause that is most important to you in the matter that you find most appropriate. Because honestly if you force yourself to do so, not only will you be less effective but eventually you'll eventually give up and be no use to anyone. Your conscience won't allow you to consume chocolate yet you keep on using a computer? Embrace the cognitive dissonance. You want to donate to your neighborhood's soup kitchen even though technically the people there are better off than children starving in Africa? Go ahead.
Just do me a favor: inform people about the consequences of what they're doing but allow them to make their own decision. And don't give me the "But the majority of people are IDIOTS" argument. Idiocracy was just a movie. Get over it.
fade
Staff member
That actually would MAKE the world a better place if some people I can think of did it.
Wow that's a pretty stupid philosophy.
"World's already going to hell, fuck it and everyone in it."
Added at: 22:28
I frankly don't care if it "hurts" the chocolate companies or not. I won't buy things that promote child slavery on moral principle. Fuck that shit.
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