[Comics] DC's new 52 (Comics; Nick, help!)

Bowielee

Bowielee

I still like John Ramita Jr's work. But honestly, it's like the guy should have been an architect rather than a comic book artist. His art is so boxy.
 
Bowielee

Bowielee

Well, given who his father is, I'm sure that he was probably all like:

"I don't want your life!"
I Don't Want Your Life varsity Blues.jpg


And his dad was like:

"Shut up and draw Spider-Man"
 
Covar

Covar

Last time I saw something drawn by JRSR all I could think was "the man's still got it." Love, love, LOVE John Romita Sr's artwork.
 
Norris

Norris

Read all four of the wave two books that came out yesterday.

Dial H - Definitely a keeper! Will probably be Animal Man's replacement on my pull list.
G.I. Combat - Two stories in one book. "The War That Time Forgot" seems promising
Two American soldiers are caught in a dinosaur infested radio/satellite dead zone in North Korea
but the first issue here was mostly set up. Unknown Soldier was pretty damned cool though. Sticking around for the second issue at least.
World's Finest - First issue was pretty slow, mostly set up. Art was great. I have faith in Paul Levitz, so I'll be sticking around.
Earth 2 - Fan. Fucking. Tastic. When the cover was first announced, I was immediately leery - The Trinity fighting Parademons? Didn't we get six issues of that in Justice League? Covers for subsequent issues, featuring modern takes on Jay "The Flash" Garrick and Alan "Green Lantern" Scott made curious. The first issue sold me on the concept. Total spoilage:
The first issue deals mostly with The Trinity fighting the last battle of the ApokolipsWar (AKA Darkseid's invasion). Things have not gone well up to now - Metropolis is a Parademon stronghold leaving Lois Lane dead, Amazon Island and all of its inhabitants except Wonder Woman have been destroyed, and the Roman Gods that supported them are dying in battle as well. Batman has devised a computer virus that will destroy all the Parademon control towers, Supes and Wondy are covering his approach to the Metropolis tower. Helena "Robin" Wayne is covering them in the Bat Jet, Supergirl is covering the military's last resort nuclear option. Wonder Woman is killed by Apokoliptian general Steppenwolf, Superman is blown to smithereens by surprise attack, Batman's plan succeeds in destroying the Parademon Control Towers but kills him in the process, and Robin & Supergirl fly headlong into a mysterious energy rip never to be seen again (except on New Earth). Earth is safe...and without heroes. Incidentally, one of the military teams controlling a tactical nuke cannon was lead by five foot nothing soldier Al Pratt...wonder if that'll be important? Five years later, GBC president Alan Scott watches the final cut of his documentary (which he's giving away for free, feeling the subject too important to profit from) about the war on his private jet as he flies over the still smoking craters left over from the invasion. In Lansing, MI (SQUEE!), recent college graduate Jay Garrick is being rather harshly dumped by his girlfriend. That night, as he considers what she said, the god Mercury crashes to Earth with a grave warning and that's all for this ish. Is it June 6th yet?
 
Shegokigo

Shegokigo

With Deathstroke dropped from my pull, I picked up Earth 2 today. Looks very promising.

I refuse to buy World's Finest with the shit job they did on Power Girl (and I'm not even talking about the lack of boob window).
 
AshburnerX

AshburnerX

I imagine it lacks the fun and energy of the last 2-3 years pre-52, which was the only reason it was worth reading in the first place.
 
filmfanatic

filmfanatic

For anyone that has been holding out until the trades, DC has released the schedule for the volumes of the new 52:

May
June
July
August
September
October
November
  • BLACKHAWKS VOL 1: THE GREAT LEAP FORWARD
  • BLUE BEETLE VOL 1: METAMORPHOSIS
  • CAPTAIN ATOM VOL 1: EVOLUTION
  • DC UNIVERSE PRESENTS VOL 1 FEATURING DEADMAN & CHALLENGERS OF THE UNKNOWN
  • THE FLASH VOL 1: MOVE FORWARD
  • RED HOOD AND THE OUTLAWS VOL 1: REDEMPTION
  • SUPERMAN VOL 1: WHAT PRICE TOMORROW?
 
filmfanatic

filmfanatic

Shegokigo said:
I'm guessing this is just a collection of the first few issues?
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Pretty much. They're your standard volumes they sell, putting a few issues together into a trade. Just thought I'd post it up for anyone that was waiting for the volumes to be sold before going in.

I admit I'm among this group, but I did check out a few of the #1s when they were released. I also checked out some of the Second Wave, one of which I'm really interested in is Dial H. I had read some of China Mieville's novels and like the direction he's stating out with the Dial H for Hero concept.
 
Shegokigo

Shegokigo

So far have 1-9 of everything I'm interested in. However I'm going be dropping another 4 or so from my pull list. I'm really turned off by this whole "Court of Owls" thing. I hate cross-overs that make you buy from a series you don't read at all, or worse, buy entire side comic sets to get the story. I want to follow my character, I want to buy her series and not have to buy anythingelse to see what happens to her.

So yeah, I'm basically dropping all my "Bat" trades with the exception of Batwoman and a few of my others like: Supergirl and Action.
 
Norris

Norris

Shegokigo said:
So far have 1-9 of everything I'm interested in. However I'm going be dropping another 4 or so from my pull list. I'm really turned off by this whole "Court of Owls" thing. I hate cross-overs that make you buy from a series you don't read at all, or worse, buy entire side comic sets to get the story. I want to follow my character, I want to buy her series and not have to buy anythingelse to see what happens to her.
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I don't know, I only read the peripheral bat-books (Batwing, Red Hood, Nightwing, Birds of Prey, and Batgirl) and I think they've done an excellent job keeping each story self contained. Each hero/team fights a different Talon, each book gives you the information you need to understand the Court of Owls, and each series features its protagonist triumphing over their Talon. No "Follow Red Hood to Batman: Dark Knight #9!" foolishness in sight.

filmfanatic said:
For someone getting into the new 52 with these volumes, which ones would you recommend?
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Wonder Woman, OMAC, Aquaman, Firestorm, Deathstroke, Batwing, Suicide Squad, generally most of the B-Level titles.
 
Shegokigo

Shegokigo

Deathstroke was good till they let Leifeld take the reins on issue #9. I dropped it then.

Suicide Squad, Wonder Woman, Bat Woman, Detective Comics, Action Comics, (IF you have some backround history on the Lantern storyline) Green Lantern was decent, New Guardians also decent, Red Lanterns is fan service but Corps was downright amazing. Justice League was also fantastic in setting up this new reboots JL series.
 
ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

I find my interest in the 52 has been slowly degrading. My original list was:

OMAC (cancelled)
Mister Terrific (ended, but I dropped it long before that)
Superman (dropped)
Action Comics (still holding, but tentatively)
Animal Man (still going strong and loving it)
Resurrection Man (dropped it, especially after reading the trade of the original series, which was much better)
Frankenstein (still going and still sort of digging it)

I think might drop them all and get what I want in trade, instead (like Animal Man and Frank). Honestly, the more I watch Young Justice, the more I prefer it as my main source for the DCU over this stuff. Especially now that they're hyping that Trinity War event, which I have no interest in at all. Not to mention that the majority of the characters are just over-designed. I like the idea behind Superman's armour, for example. There's another comic coming out soon called Superman Family or something. The artist uses the current, new suit for the costume, but it's much more simplified, looking more like a uniform than armour, and it works much better than Jim Lee's design.

As for what to recommend, filmfanatic? Most assuredly Animal Man. That's probably one of the best mainstream books right now. If you dig that, I'd also recommend Frankenstein. I hear Swamp Thing is good (I plan on getting the trade, as I missed out on the monthlies). Action Comics is mostly solid, though there's a couple of one-shot stories in the middle of the first storyarc that aren't qutie as good. I've heard Batwoman's been great. OMAC, especially if you're at all a fan of Jack Kirby; the comic is basically a love letter to him, but still doing its own thing. And while I haven't been interested in it myself (might check out the trade), Aquaman has been at the top of a lot of people's lists.
 
Frank

Frank

So, after much speculation, they've revealed which iconic DC character is gay (in a totally non-exploitational way, comics don't do that kind of thing).

It's the Earth 2 version of the Green Lantern no one gives a shit about, Alan Scott.

I dunno, maybe I'm just being cynical but it really does seem more like a me-too thing with the Marvel Northstar deal going on right now than an actual honest to goodness stab at making a non-stereotypical gay character. But then, that's comics right? I guess it's a step up that he's not Dick Gayhard the Rainbow Cowboy (oh wait, Marvel did that already). How long did it take for black characters to not have black in their names?
 
AshburnerX

AshburnerX

Why is this even an issue? We already have great gay DC characters, who's sexual orientation isn't really that much of a defining characteristic for them ANYWAY. Why do they feel the need to "reveal" established ones that no one cares about as being gay as well? It's clearly meant to drive sales and the long time fans know this.
 
Covar

Covar

What's funny is that Alan Scott had a gay son in prior to the New 52. Oh well, if they even bother, they'll probably just have Thorn rape him or something so they can still have Obsidian. Because who gives a fuck about Jade, amirite?
 
Bowielee

Bowielee

Covar said:
What's funny is that Alan Scott had a gay son in prior to the New 52. Oh well, if they even bother, they'll probably just have Thorn rape him or something so they can still have Obsidian. Because who gives a fuck about Jade, amirite?
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That was my reaction... Um... Jade and Obsidian?

This is just a stupid, stupid ploy. There are any number of Golden Age characters that this could actually work for, but Alan Scott is not one of them.
 
@Li3n

@Li3n

Is Earth 2 set in the 1940? Because that's the only way i see this actually being interesting even a little bit...
 
Norris

Norris

Frank said:
So, after much speculation, they've revealed which iconic DC character is gay (in a totally non-exploitational way, comics don't do that kind of thing).

It's the Earth 2 version of the Green Lantern no one gives a shit about, Alan Scott.

I dunno, maybe I'm just being cynical but it really does seem more like a me-too thing with the Marvel Northstar deal going on right now than an actual honest to goodness stab at making a non-stereotypical gay character.
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That depends. It takes about six months (or at least it did in the 90's, it may be less than that now but it's presumably still at least four) to take a comic from start to finish. Northstar has been out and proud for twenty plus years, a major character in X-Books on and off for about a decade. When did Marvel start hinting at his upcoming wedding?

AshburnerX said:
Why is this even an issue? We already have great gay DC characters, who's sexual orientation isn't really that much of a defining characteristic for them ANYWAY. Why do they feel the need to "reveal" established ones that no one cares about as being gay as well? It's clearly meant to drive sales and the long time fans know this.
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The thing is that it is editorial making a big deal of this. Based on the promo page they released, while it is a "big reveal" in the issue itself, it's not a "big deal" in the long run. The character is gay, out of the closet, and has a boyfriend - it's the reader for whom this is a big change. Like The Flash's connection to the Roman Gods , the deaths of the Trinity, and Kendra Saunders being the first Hawkgirl, this is just another one of the differences on new Earth-2.

Likewise, its not really a "reveal an established character is gay" situation any more than Mortal Kombat (2011) revealed that Sub-Zero was a cyborg. New continuity, new character history.

Covar said:
What's funny is that Alan Scott had a gay son in prior to the New 52. Oh well, if they even bother, they'll probably just have Thorn rape him or something so they can still have Obsidian. Because who gives a fuck about Jade, amirite?
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None of the Infinity, Inc. generation exist. Jay Garrick just graduated from college for goodness sake, his peers can't have adult children. If anything, the new Alan Scott is gay precisely because of Pre-Flashpoint Obsidian.

We've seen editorial make too big of a deal about this, we've seen one page of the actual issue, but we haven't seen how this is actually handled long term. Personally, I think the best way to handle it is to make Alan Scott essentially the same character he's always been (with setting and origin updates, of course) who just happens to be gay and in a relationship. Let's allow the next issue or two to drop before writing it off completely. Remember when Batwoman was announced? Besides, Robinson has a decent track record with gay characters, as I understand it.

And please knock it off with the "no cares about the Justice Society" crap. I get that you're saying that the mainstream isn't familiar with them and that Alan Scott isn't who most people think of when people think Green Lantern, however the Justice Society had their own series from August 1999 to October 2011 (with only a four month gap between the October 2006 JSA #81 and the February 2007 Justice Society of America #1 to break the stride), not counting the multiple spin-off minis and on-goings. The team has fans, dammit.
 
Bowielee

Bowielee

Norris said:
And please knock it off with the "no cares about the Justice Society" crap. I get that you're saying that the mainstream isn't familiar with them and that Alan Scott isn't who most people think of when people think Green Lantern, however the Justice Society had their own series from August 1999 to October 2011 (with a four month gap between the October 2006 JSA #81 and the February 2007 Justice Society of America #1 to break the stride), not counting the multiple spin-off minis and on-goings. The team has fans, dammit.
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I love the Justice Society, but they could have chosen so many other characters that would make more sense. Alan Scott is actually my favorite character from that era and I feel one of the few who kept relevant in the mainstream universe as well. Obviously, I'm not at issue with more gay characters, but really, why make Alan Scott gay?
 
Norris

Norris

Bowielee said:
I love the Justice Society, but they could have chosen so many other characters that would make more sense. Alan Scott is actually my favorite character from that era and I feel one of the few who kept relevant in the mainstream universe as well. Obviously, I'm not at issue with more gay characters, but really, why make Alan Scott gay?
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If I'm being cynical, I'd say it is to take the place of Obsidian on the list of gay DC characters. If I'm being optimistic, I'd say its because this is a New Earth-2 which is re-imagining all the JSA characters and their origins. The shortest is: I don't know yet. Alan Scott appeared on all of two pages in the first issue.
 
AshburnerX

AshburnerX

Here's what I don't get... wasn't the entire idea behind the New 52 that all the heroes had only been doing the hero thing for a few years at most? So... why is the JSA around? The entire point of the JSA was that it was sort of the "old guard"'s club, where they took in the new guys and got them up to snuff. But if Super Heroes are relatively new, this kinda puts the JSA in a weird area.

Anyone more familiar with the JSA in the reboot able to give me some idea of the point of it now?
 
Covar

Covar

It's back to being Earth-2, and they are/becoming (I haven't read Earth-2 yet) the current generation of heroes on that world.
 
AshburnerX

AshburnerX

Why... THE FUCK... are they adding in alternate universes? They already admitted that the idea behind those things was just fucking confusing for new readers.
 
Covar

Covar

1) because it's far less confusing than most the run-around crap they had to come up with post-crisis in order to keep around a lot of the great characters and concepts they had before the collapse of the multiverse.
2) It was never that confusing, unless you're the same mystical reader that somehow needs to be made aware of Superman's origin, or one of those "die-hard trekkies" who can't seem to grasp that the divergent timeline in the new movie did nothing to wipe the original series out of continuity.
3) The mythical new reader that needs everything dumbed down and will be confused if everything doesn't line up with the movie they just saw is bogus. More often than not things like the reboot and movies result in short term bumps, new readers that do stick around would have regardless of when they started reading. As far as the new 52, most the people I've talked about it have been a) existing DC readers who had drastically been cutting their list prior, b) former DC readers who has stopped, and,or c) Former Marvel Zombies.
 
Norris

Norris

AshburnerX said:
Why... THE FUCK... are they adding in alternate universes? They already admitted that the idea behind those things was just fucking confusing for new readers.
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There are literally two titles handling alternate universes on any sort of regular basis - Earth-2 (which says in the title that it's a different earth) and World's Finest (which is about two refugees from Earth-2 living in the mainstream DCnU, no more confusing than time travelers or aliens). The only time alternate universes become remotely confusing to new readers is when they become required reading to understand what's going on in the "mainstream" universe, and even then its not that confusing if it's written properly. Comics have had the concept of "multiverses" and "imaginary stories" for something like sixty years. They will NEVER go away. Even when DC said "No More Mulitverse!", it took about ten years for them to decide "But there is Hypertime" and half that for them to say "Elseworlds are OK too".

Anyhow, to answer your first question
AshburnerX said:
Anyone more familiar with the JSA in the reboot able to give me some idea of the point of it now?
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It's new 52'ing the Golden Age, basically. Cliff's notes on what is known so far: Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman all died successfully repelling an Akopolitian invasion of Earth. There have been no super heroes in the last five years. Earth-2, from issue two forward, will chronicle the rise of The Justice Society as the second generation of Earth's protectors as they prepare to face a threat even greater than that of the invasion. The Flash is recent college graduate Jay Garrick, who will receive his speed powers from the dying Roman god Mercury and essentially be Wonder Woman's spiritual successor. He's also a Michigander from the state capitol of Lansing, which makes me absurdly happy. Green Lantern is Alan Scott who will get his ring...in issue three but will be one of the most powerful heroes once he does and will essentially be Superman's spiritual successor. Hawkgirl is...I swear I read that they were going with Kendra Saunders but now I can't find it. Anyhow, she shows up in issue three as well and she will be Batman's sprititual successor as a super detective. We'll also be seeing Mr. Terrific, who migrated to Earth-2 at the end of his own series and is a super science hero almost in the Marvel mold, as well as Atom Smasher. I personally think that Atom Smasher is going to be Al Pratt, who showed up in the first issue as a soldier guarding a high tech nuclear weapon that was the Plan-B if The Trinity had failed to take out the towers. We've also got the seeds of Hourman (Jay Garrick's girlfriend dumps him as she leaves town for a job at Tyler-Chem, Hourman is chemist Rex Tyler) and The Guardian (a guy named "Harper" was part of Pratt's squad, Jim Harper was the original Guardian and had the same boxing trainer as Al Pratt).

I'm sort of excited about this series, if you didn't notice. Not only is it my beloved Justice Society, it's also about 10x more carefully planned out than the "Four Robins in five years" DCnU.
 
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