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DC's new 52 (Comics; Nick, help!)

#1

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

I saw on Penny Arcade today that Scott had mentioned the new 52.

Short version: DC is relaunching a bunch of titles at #1, resetting everything. Great idea, I think.

My question is whether they'll learn from past mistakes (or Marvel's mistakes) and avoid one grand continuity between all the comics. For example, I think Batman of Detective Comics should be an altogether separate continuity from Batman of Batman, or Batman of Batman and Robin. I shouldn't have to read multiple books to follow the story.

So is this the case? If Harley Quinn shows up in Detective Comics, I should be able to assume it's a different Harley than in Suicide Squad, right? The Justice League exists as its own group of those characters, rather than saying JL events happen between different Batman and Superman titles... right?

I'm not even sure I'd be reading those if I subscribed to this new digital thing; Blue Beetle, Resurrection Man, and Green Arrow sound more interesting, but I want to know what I'd be paying into. Anyone have info? (Niiiiiick?)


#2

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

I've pre-ordered about 20 titles, soon as they all come in, gonna take a pic.

I haven't bought a comic outside of a "comic-novel" in about 10yrs so this is my attempt to get back into it from "scratch".

I'm mostly interested in the Lantern titles (blame my brother for getting me into those) but the new Batgirl/Supergirl/Catwoman/Wonder Woman series' were on my first list.


#3

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

Shegokigo said:
I haven't bought a comic outside of a "comic-novel" in about 10yrs so this is my attempt to get back into it from "scratch".
Click to expand...
That's me pretty much, maybe bring it up to 16 years. Spider-man ruined the magazines thanks to that stupid Clone Saga and having to buy $20 worth of comics each month with their pointless shiny covers just to get the whole story. Since then I only bought books as well, either trades or graphic novels. Just bought a shit-ton of Hellboy and BPRD.

I never read DC except Vertigo and The Dark Knight Returns, but this sounded like a good time to give it a shot, if they're going to do it right.

Or maybe I should do as you are and just give them a chance.


#4

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

Well I spent so much time wiki-diving, reading up on so much of the DC universe (I had been a Marvel only reader for so many years) that I was just looking for a good "in" to be part of the community again.

This was my opportunity.


#5

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

From what I've guessed, it's sort of a loose reboot. Morrison's Batman and Johns' Green Lantern are more or less unchanged, continuing their stories. And to be perfectly honest, it's not going to matter much at all, since I give them a year (if that) before they start pushing things back to the old status quo for everything else.

And to be even more honest, I couldn't give a crap about any of it. It's just a big event to showcase that they're doing same-day digital and having all these crisp #1's along with it. If early indications are right, they're pulling in some big numbers (Justice League already sold over 200,000 copies, which is insane for this day and age). I'm sure that, because of all this press, the casual fans are going to at least check out the first few issues of some series.

Me? Couldn't give a rats ass. Have fun, folks.

*goes back to reading good comics like Atomic Robo, Chew, Elephantmen and Criminal*


#6

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

ThatNickGuy: The Charlie of comic books.


#7

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Sorry. I don't mean to sound so bitter about it.You guys are excited for it? Go for it. I'm just not game. I could probably recommend dozens of other, better, self-contained comics that aren't going to have confusing continuity due to crossing over with twenty other books.

I still love the idea of superheroes and some (not a lot) Big Two (Marvel/DC) stuff. It's just...I'm tired of these events. I'm tired of books needing to cross over into twenty others and high editorial decisions that run against what the individual creative teams have established. I'm tired of the big, mainstream usual crap overshadowing the good, sadly overlooked books (Secret Six!). I'm just tired of it. I want to like this stuff like I used to, but if you've been collecting and following comics as long as I have (since about '92 ish), you start to realize that they do these giant events every couple of years, promising "Changes that will be felt forever!" and "Nothing will ever be the same again!" when it's just undone in a few months, anyway.

Nothing sticks.
Nothing lasts.
Few things are resolved in a satisfying matter because it all sets up to the next event that "changes everything."
Another creative team comes on and decide they'll do things entirely differently.
And that's not including when you need to pick up a dozen other books around the same time just to get the whole story.

I'm just tired of it. Like I said, there are just so many other, much better, books out there that don't require you to buy twenty other books to understand what's going on. They don't have executive editors who overlook an entire universe, telling the creative team to change their story so it fits in with the rest of the universe. It's just one book, one creative team with usually some modicum of an overall plan.


#8

Allen who is Quiet

Allen who is Quiet

Nick, please tell me about this Secret Six.


#9

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

There's a reason that the mainstream stuff over-shadows the books/characters you like better. The mainstream finds them boring/dull/not interesting enough to follow.

Mainstream comics are the backbone of the industry. They're flashy, they keep coming up with new TWISTS! and WORLD EVENTS, so that mainstream readers will still go and make purchases. Without those events that you despise so much, there would be no comic industry to speak of.

I can understand your distaste of liking something and having it changed over and over but honestly? If they didn't? It'd become stale and dull or worse, spiral out of control, spawning thousands of un-retconable storylines that will never draw in new readers. It's the way of things. If anything you should be grateful for these events. The 200,000 JLAs sold have revitalized the community and more independant writers (much of your favorites) WILL feel that surge.

I for one like the big events and changes, whether they "throw it all away" in the next big event, I find the event itself an interesting experience and worth the reads (in the present, whether I'm happy with how they treat it in the future? That's always meant to be seen)


#10

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

It's a book about C-string villains like Catman who oddly work really well together. They're a work-for-hirer group who sort of have a code of ethics, although it's incredibly twisted.

Oh, and Bane joins their group early in. :D

It essentially starts in Villains United, a mini-series that was a part of a mega-crossover, Infinite Crisis. But it really became its own thing, so it's not necessary to read the rest. Then there was a mini-series, followed by their own regular series. Definitely a big recommendation from me.

From what I've heard, the book'll return sometime in this new universe. In what form, I don't know.


#11

Allen who is Quiet

Allen who is Quiet

Sounds good. Thanks, dude.


#12

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

And I can understand that, Sheg. Hell, it was an event that pulled me back into comics in the first place (The Death of Superman). It was an event that got me reading other books (Zero Hour). And I just mentioned another event to Allen, which was near the end of my interest in these company-wide events. I agree that, without the events, we wouldn't have the industry we know and love. A lot of times, those other books are loved by people like me who have read the big stuff long enough to get tired of it and want something different. By that point, we're willing to try new things. We're drawn to the different books because we're tired of the events.

That said, I'm a little insulted that you would think that these other books are considered dull or not interesting. Didn't I suggest Gotham Central to you, specifically the story about the Joker sniping people? That little book was a critical hit but a financial failure. And now, those writers from that book are two big name writers in the industry (Ed Brubaker and Greg Rucka).

The thing is, I compare the event-driven books to blockbuster movies. Yeah, they're fun and flash, and sometimes you'll get some good ones out of it, but overall, they're just mindless drivel popcorn flicks. Of course, some of the stuff I enjoy is mindless, too. Hack/Slash, for example, where a due hunt down horror slashers like Freddy or Jason? It's not very deep, but it's fun. AND, it's driven by one creative team, so they can do whatever the hell they want without higher editors middling.

Personally, my opinion has been that the best stories in the last couple of decades haven't even been from mainstream stuff. You look at the stuff that's consistently sold in collected form long past since the individual issues were published...and they're self-contained series or mini-series. Kingdom Come, All Star Superman, Dark Knight Returns, Watchmen, the earlier Ultimate Marvel books. Yeah, those event comics sold well at the time, but they're hard to follow for the casual reader who needs to pick up half a dozen or more ancilliary books to get the whole story. Those other books basically take the mythology of the characters we're familiar with and tell a good, self-contained story with them.

That's sort of where I keep hoping the business will move towards. Instead of trying to doing these shocking events where "everything will forever change everything!", they could treat it more like the Star Trek, Star Wars or Doctor Who novels: self-contained adventures that rely less on a specific continuity and more on the mythos. It'll never happen, because these giant events will sell.

I do want to say, though, that this big company-wide thing seems to be bringing in new readers. And for that, I'm really happy. I just hope those same new readers will at least try some of the other books that myself and others have been going on and on about. Pick up that first trade volume of Chew while you pick up Justice League #1! Flip through Atomic Robo while you're getting that Action Comics #1! Give them a try.


#13

Norris

Norris

Me? I'm looking forward to Suicide Squad, Stormwatch, Blackhawks (all from The Edge, IIRC), Justice League International, and Teen Titans the most. Gail Simone's takes on Firestorm and Batgirl should be good (if she holds true to form), Resurrection Man should be solid with Dan Abnett and Andy Lanning at the helm, while Birds of Prey looks odd but with potential (as does Red Hood and The Outlaws, shockingly enough). Very, very, very cautiously optimistic about Green Arrow (bold new direction...from the writer who's done the last year or so of mediocrity), Hawk & Dove (good writer...teamed with Rob Liefeld *le shudder*), and Blue Beetle (RETELL ALL THE THINGS!).

It is, however, still one great big connected universe though it will likely be a good six months before that becomes at all important. I really don't care that they pull shit like this so long as the characters remain recognizable. I read comics for the stories, not necessarily for how each story flows into the next.

Full Guide.


#14

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

You got my point, then missed it all together. I already said that independant titles can be amazing and much better than the mainstream titles, but they wouldn't exist without the large "money makers". As well as I enjoy the big events because I take them as they come, not what they do to the past or future. For that, I enjoy them.

For the record, I never said I was one of those "mainstream people" that found them boring.


#15

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Sorry, yeah, I got that. I just...yeah, I get really ranty when it comes to this subject. And like I said, I used to really dig these events. I was digging the hell out of Infinite Crisis and, looking back, I think I still like most of it.

And yeah, I never accused you of being of those "mainstream people", just insulted by the comment in general. I'd say it's less about people finding them dull and boring, so much as they're just so overshadowed by the big books, that people don't even realize that they're there. Again, it's the summer blockbuster movie analogy all over again. I've gotten a number of my friends (and likely a lot of people on the board here) into other comics that they'd never even heard tell of before.


#16

Norris

Norris

The more obscure or niche stuff is a far harder sell to new readers than the guys people have heard of. The dude looking at the comic rack at Barnes and Noble would prefer to see Batman fight Two Face over some angsty Lesbian detective they've never heard of, regardless of how good the writing is.


#17

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

That angsty lesbian detective (Stumptown) is a damn good detective book.
Added at: 21:58
The funny thing is, though, that there are some really good comics that people might have heard of, anyway. For example, both A History of Violence and Road to Perdition originated as graphic novels.


#18

Norris

Norris

ThatNickGuy said:
That angsty lesbian detective (Stumptown) is a damn good detective book.
Added at: 21:58
The funny thing is, though, that there are some really good comics that people might have heard of, anyway. For example, both A History of Violence and Road to Perdition originated as graphic novels.
Click to expand...
I was referring to Rene Montoya in Gotham Central. As in, the general public would rather pick up a Batman Vs. Two Face story in Detective Comics than Gotham Central. I know it is a relatively ancient example, but it is a series already mentioned in the thread.

I do, however, agree that there are probably a lot of people out there who would probably like comics a lot more if they knew it wasn't just men in spandex punching each other (or knew the level of writing now common in those stories). My bestie's roommates (both art students) have expressed a desire to get into comics and I plan to offer up Strangers in Paradise and Death: The High Cost of Living before the year is out.


#19

Espy

Espy

I actually wish they had done a hard reboot. Just wipe the slate clean.

Honestly though, it doesn't matter. These characters have been around FOREVER, so there isn't much new to do with them considering they do have a status quo they have to keep up. Mainstream comics will always have a circular narrative, with the same stories and ideas going around every few years/decades.


#20



kaykordeath

Secret Six was absolutely the best title that DC is not continuing with the relaunch.

That being said, I am looking forward to where things go from here. I enjoy the continuity and, as Shego called it, Wiki-Diving, but I'm not beholden to it.

Basically, for most of the titles, the heroes have been around for about 5 years. The 2 major exceptions are the first arcs (6 issues I beleive for both) of Action Comics and Justice League, taking place "5 years ago"...basically Superman's first appearance and the Justice League coming together. Prior to THESE, Batman has been working in Gotham as the "urban legend" so this is basically his public debut. And yes, while some of the "old" history "still happened" within those 5 years, I'm not giving a rats ass about the specifics of how/when.


#21

figmentPez

figmentPez

The Variants did a pretty funny parody of the reboot:



#22

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

So...I may have had a moment of weakness (it happens, especially after fighting out of another bout of depression like I did recenlty)...bought some of the New DC comics.

My intention was to just buy Action Comics #1. Which was sold out. They should have more next week.

In the meantime, I picked up OMAC #1 and Animal Man #1. And if you're at all a fan of Kirby, I highly recommend it. Keith Giffen totally owns this book on art, not only evoking a Kirbyesque feeling, but still managing to do some of his own thing. Haven't had a chance to read Animal Man, yet, but it seems really dark and twisted. I've liked writer Jeff Lemuire's work in a lot of other stuff, like the highly recommended Vertigo book, Sweet Tooth. So I'm willing to give it a shot.

There's something I realized, though, which goes somewhat along Shego's point: I have nothing against different or new origins for characters. My beef is when they advertise big changes that don't stick. Which is why I think I'll enjoy these smaller books, since they're not going to try as hard with crap like that.

My other beef is higher editorial decisions getting in the way of a comic. To be honest, DC is already kind of falling into that trap, with a woman appearing mysteriously in the background of nearly every one of their books so far: http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/09...of-the-strange-woman-in-this-weeks-dc-comics/ That worries me because it's all just a set up for the next big event. But if it doesn't interfere with the stories that each creative team is telling, then I'll be okay with it.


#23

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

Can you tinyurl that link? I can't open it.


#24

figmentPez

figmentPez

Shegokigo said:
Can you tinyurl that link? I can't open it.
Click to expand...
http://tinyurl.com/3pvx952


#25

Gryfter

Gryfter

Espy said:
I actually wish they had done a hard reboot. Just wipe the slate clean.

Honestly though, it doesn't matter. These characters have been around FOREVER, so there isn't much new to do with them considering they do have a status quo they have to keep up. Mainstream comics will always have a circular narrative, with the same stories and ideas going around every few years/decades.
Click to expand...
You know that's actually my biggest problem with this "reboot". These books are still riddled with references to past stories, it's just that they are the stories written in the last few years. It feels like they wiped clean any work done by writers not currently working for DC and only kept plot points from the writers of the last couple of years. It's all fine and good to say we are starting over but they really aren't. I think many new readers will be just as confused as if they hadn't re-numbered anything and just continued with the status quo.

Seeing as the stated reason for this whole re-launch/re-numbering was to keep the confusion of new readers down, I would say they have failed.

I know many of the #1s are selling out but I wonder how many will still be selling in a couple of months.


#26

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

The other problem with trying a clean slate cleaning is that, like we saw with the Ultimate universe, eventually, that new universe has a long continuity as well. The longer it runs, the harder it is to introduce new readers.

I'm still firmly behind the idea of just having self-contained adventures that don't tie in with everything else. It'll never happen, though.


#27

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

Comics I Pre-Ordered for this event:

Action Comics
Superman
Supergirl
Batman
Detective Comics
Dark Knight
Batgirl
Catwoman
Green Lantern
Green Lantern Corps
Green Lantern New Guardians
Red Lanterns
Justice League
Justice League International
Wonder Woman
Flash
DC Universe Presents
Deathstroke
Suicide Squad

That was what interested me from what I "knew".


#28

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

ThatNickGuy said:
My other beef is higher editorial decisions getting in the way of a comic. To be honest, DC is already kind of falling into that trap, with a woman appearing mysteriously in the background of nearly every one of their books so far: http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/09...of-the-strange-woman-in-this-weeks-dc-comics/ That worries me because it's all just a set up for the next big event. But if it doesn't interfere with the stories that each creative team is telling, then I'll be okay with it.
Click to expand...
Well, that looks like a pile of shit; especially that last panel about merging the timelines or whatever, which seems to say this #1 isn't about getting new readers but about doing the bullshit again.

I guess I'll go for the one I'm interested in and I can quit if things start getting fuckity.


#29

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

In the meantime, my Charmander icon'd friend, if you ever want recommendations for stuff that is relatively bullshit free, I can provide a doozy of a long list. Or shorten it to things you'd be interested in, if you provide me with stuff you're generally interested in (fave kind of movies, TV shows, etc).


#30

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

I know those, Nick, thanks--you've provided some excellent lists to people in the past. I have some in my closet based on one of those old threads that I've not even gotten to reading yet. But it came to me that I don't read Superman/Batman/etc ongoing because of all the bullshit and when I heard about this, it was a small hope of "Hey, maybe they're gonna cut that crap out and I can get into it; maybe read something of Batman besides The Dark Knight Returns, or Superman besides All-Star."

But bullshit aside, looking over the site it seems several of the ones I'm interested in aren't going digital and I don't feel the price justifies the subscription for the mags. So I'll let others' money decide the fate of all this.


#31

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Can't blame ya there. Although, as far as digital goes, I'm absolutely certain that they're all going to be available. I was looking on Comixology today and all the #1's out so far were listed.


#32

Norris

Norris

Wait, OMAC is good? Shit. I deleted it from my pull list last minute to replace it with Hawk & Dove on the logic that a writer who has a proven track record (Sterling Gates) teamed up with a shitty artist (Rob Liefeld) was preferable to a proven artist (Keith Giffen) with an iffy writer (The Didiot, who took Outsiders from one of my favorite books to an unlikable mess in about two issues). Hope that turns out to be a good call. :/

I'm kind of jizzing my pants waiting for my comics to arrive on Friday. I want to read Batgirl, Stormwatch, and JLI dammit! Static Shock, Green Arrow, and Hawk & Dove are all on the "cautious optimism" list.


#33

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

ThatNickGuy said:
Can't blame ya there. Although, as far as digital goes, I'm absolutely certain that they're all going to be available. I was looking on Comixology today and all the #1's out so far were listed.
Click to expand...
Well, if I see the ones I'm interested in show up on the digital, I'll go for it. But I'm not interesting in paying $4.50 to $5.00 for a magazine comic. Not worth it. I got my Hellboy trades for two dollars more than that, new.


#34

Covar

Covar

kaykordeath said:
Secret Six was absolutely the best title that DC is not continuing with the relaunch.
Click to expand...
I should toss a goopy baterang at you for not saying Batgirl V3.


#35

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Admittedly Norris, I dug OMAC mostly for the awesome art. And Dildio's writing didn't entirely suck. it used a lot of Kirby mainstays but put his own spin on a few things. Let's just say it's enough for me to be excited for the next issue.


#36

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

On a slightly related note: I got a date this weekend with a cute comic geek I met today while picking up my issues. :D


#37

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

Shegokigo said:
On a slightly related note: I got a date this weekend with a cute comic geek I met today while picking up my issues. :D
Click to expand...
DC reboot, all the way! I'm getting me to the comic store!

...oh wait.


#38

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Aw man! How come I didn't get a date with a cute comic book geek when I went to buy my comics?!

Oh, wait. That's right. There weren't any. Well, except me. :p


#39

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

Well I'm not exactly a "regular" so I was aiming a shot in the dark. I tried a few probing questions while we were talking comics by the counter. Wasn't that shy so it wasn't too hard to figure it out. Asked her what she was doing this weekend, walked out with comics and a number with plans. Couldn't have gone better. Not normally my type, but she's definitely cute.

From what I understand, it draws in alot of female clients with cosplay contests and alot of manga. *shrug*


#40

Norris

Norris

1) Congratulations!

2) As a slightly pudgy, average looking comic book nerd who can't even talk to girls romantically, I hate you with every fiber of my soul. Nothing personal.


#41

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

If it helps, I'll try and snag a pic of us this weekend and post it up ;)


#42

Allen who is Quiet

Allen who is Quiet

Nick, I started reading Secret Six. This is some pretty good stuff so far.


#43

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Damn right it is.


#44

Shannow

Shannow

So far...been a big ol'..."Meh." As always, I read a lot of comics each week, and the DC reboot hasnt been much of anything spectacular. Not great, not terrible, just a...meh.


#45



kaykordeath

I'm not enough of an old time Kirby fan to have appreciated and loved OMAC but it was fun.enough that I'll pick it up again.

I was surprised at how wowed I was by Batwing. Intriguing start.

Haven't read anything else in the pile yet.


#46

twitchmoss

twitchmoss

damn it, damn it, damn it. I promised myself i wouldnt end up getting any of the new 52 for at least a good few issues.

aand i caved in, and got action comics, static shock and stormwatch. I'm weak :(
I still don't really know how they're going to tie in stormwatch into the DCU as a whole. I mean, 'we're not superheros, we're *professionals*' works, but not so much when the "amateurs" are the goddamn JUSTICE LEAGUE.

Action comics... its grant morrison doing golden-age style superman. I couldn't really stop myself buying it. >.> Its definitely a little jarring seeing a more... proactive superman, much less one who isn't on the silly-end of the superpowers scale just yet. interesting start though, and i'll probably keep reading it. and the "we used to have laws in this city. like gravity' line made me smile.

static shock was more of an impulse buy. it was fun, but i dunno if i'll keep reading it regularly.

the only other book i'll probably end up getting is blue beetle, because the last run was awesome.


#47

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Got around to reading Animal Man last night before going to sleep. Damn creepy comic, especially the second half. It's interesting how Lemuire is taking some of Morrison's ideas (Grant Morrison had an amazing run on Animal Man) but bringing a lot of his own onto the table. I'm really curious about the idea of The Red (the apparent villains), who seem something akin to Swamp Thing's The Green. Plus, this is probably one of the only surviving, intact families left in comics. I'm sure Dildio will hear wind of that and ruin them soon enough.

At first, I wasn't crazy about the art, but the more I think about it, the more I realize it's suiting. It's a little twisted, but it's fitting....especially once the gore and weirdness starts. The page with the introduction of The Red is just gorgeous.


#48

Covar

Covar

Animal Man reminded me of a Vertigo title.

Didn't care for Action, not my thing. I'll probably enjoy Superman more. Batgirl wasn't bad, and I enjoyed Justice League from last week. I'm looking forward to Detective, and will probably check out JLI and Swamp Thing (this week). I enjoy Kirby's creations and if it wasn't Didio I'd probably read it. As is I'm still pissed at him for single handedly ruining the Outsiders. Twice. In the same Volume.


#49

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Would it entice you to read OMAC if it was CO-written by Giffen? The more I think about the issue, the more I realize I think Giffen has more of a hand in the book than Dildio.

Totally agreed on Animal Man feeling like a Vertigo title. I kinda like it like that, actually. Seems DC has a sub-section for some of their books. There's a teen section, a heroes section (JLA, etc), and in this case, a dark section. That'll include Animal Man, JL Dark, Swamp Thing, and I think The Demon.


#50

SpecialKO

SpecialKO

Somehow, this reboot managed to kill my desire to read Big Two comics at all. I'm just sick to death of them writing comics by random editorial fiat, and it sounds like they're already getting started on that for the reboot.

The only two titles I'm interested in are Stormwatch and Grifter, and only enough to wonder if they're good, not enough to buy.


#51

Covar

Covar

Read Men of War, and was pleasantly surprised. Decided to pick up Animal Man thanks to people's recommendation. Swamp Thing was already sold out, I flipped through someone elses copy and decided I could pass. These books are selling fast at my LCS, it's really crazy.


#52

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Ehhh, don't be so quick to say no to Swamp Thing. A friend of mine told me that, if I liked Animal Man, I'll like Swamp Thing, too.


#53

Covar

Covar

Yea, but I won't get the chance to read Swamp Thing unless/until there's a second printing. So I'm telling myself I don't need to read it.


#54

Norris

Norris

Got my books! Read them, all nice and fast. Thoughts:

Hawk & Dove - Pretty good story does, in fact, do a decent job of making up for Rob Liefeld. Also strikes me as a great issue one for newbies. Overall, good enough to make me want issue two.

Justice League International - Not bad. Booster Gold seems to retain his time traveler status. Lots of interaction between team members, unfortunately very little of it seems very unique. Fine start, anxious to see where it goes. Great line-up though.

Static Shock - Felt a little like I was missing something, like how we got here. Still, pretty good. The villains are ridiculously colorful. Hardware is a supporting character, Dakota is still intact...I will stick with it.

Stormwatch - Huh. Possibly the book I was most looking forward to. Suffers from the same problem as Justice League and Justice League International (which is worrying for the rest of the team books coming down the pike) in that it is a start but not a big grabber. Projectionist seems like a cool new character though, and I want to see how Apollo and Midnighter develop.

Green Arrow - Wow. Biggest surprise of the month so far. J.T. Krul writes a pretty damn good story. Not being the Green Arrow expert in the family, I can't say as it's a terrific GA story, but dang. I was expecting lukewarm, got something hot.

Batgirl - Gail Simone is a Comics Goddess. Favorite book so far. 'Nuff said.

The rest of my month (for the morbidly curious):

9/14
BATMAN AND ROBIN #1
FRANKENSTEIN AGENT OF SHADE #1
GREEN LANTERN #1
GRIFTER #1
LEGION LOST #1
MISTER TERRIFIC #1
RESURRECTION MAN #1
SUICIDE SQUAD #1
SUPERBOY #1

9/21
BIRDS OF PREY #1
BLUE BEETLE #1
GREEN LANTERN CORPS #1
LEGION OF SUPER HEROES #1
NIGHTWING #1
RED HOOD AND THE OUTLAWS #1

9/28
AQUAMAN #1
BLACKHAWKS #1
THE FLASH #1
THE FURY OF FIRESTORM: THE NUCLEAR MEN #1
GREEN LANTERN: NEW GUARDIANS #1
TEEN TITANS #1

Yeah. I'm buying just over half of the New 52. In addition to my Marvel books (a list I am actively shrinking to make room for more DC books). If the level of quality continues at current levels, it will probably be Christmas before I'm comfortable pruning the list.


#55

Covar

Covar

My LCS is sold out of all new 52 books except for a single issue of Batgirl that was brought back in by the owner.


#56

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

Covar said:
My LCS is sold out of all new 52 books except for a single issue of Batgirl that was brought back in by the owner.
Click to expand...
Same except it was a Justice League instead of Batgirl. I went in to check out Batwing and Green Arrow--nothing left.

DC seems to be accomplishing their goal in the short term. We'll see if they can avoid the mistakes that led them to a bad place now that they have this chance. Somehow I doubt it.


#57

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

Norris, your Green Arrow review has me interested. I loved Silver Age GA, and the 80s-90s Grell run with Ollie especially.


#58

Norris

Norris

sixpackshaker said:
Norris, your Green Arrow review has me interested. I loved Silver Age GA, and the 80s-90s Grell run with Ollie especially.
Click to expand...
Huh. This version of GA seems to have a lot less of a social conscience than the old DCU version, but is focused on using his vast resources to basically be a bounty hunter of low level metacriminals (he spends most of this issue going after some metahuman punks who live like minor celebrities).

I will say, on a different note, Justice League International has a really blatant and out of place take that to fans who are complaining about the reboot. Of protestors outside the Hall of Justice, the UN Liaison for the team says "Ignore them. They're nothing but a bunch of basement dwellers who spend all day whining on the 'net. Not an open minded one in the bunch." Admittedly, the very next panel has the hero he was speaking to reply with "Ignore them? Never! It's our job to prove 'em wrong!", but that next panel is on the next page of story which you have to turn the page passed an ad to get to. So it kind of cockslaps you in the face before giving the more optimistic take (which applies to the people actually reading the comic).

I reread all of the comics I have so far. Liked them all a little more on the second go through, with the initial expectations now in the rearview.


#59

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

Not sure wherelse to update this, so here goes:

So Saturday night's date went pretty damn well. Met up at one of my favorite little dive bars here in town. I was absolutely blown away by how good she "cleaned up". Not that she didn't look cute before in her comic T and jeans but seeing her in strap buckle dress boots, long trench dress and her hair down was a very nice surprise. We were there no more than about an hour or so when she asked me if I wanted to watch a movie. Since there really wasn't anything at the theatre and I had already made a few small moves on her, I told her I wouldn't mind rewatching something at her place.... We got about a quarter through *REC2 (which she hadn't seen yet that I got her to download/watch) before we weren't watching the screen anymore. Woke up on Sunday, went out for breakfast, talked a little more then I headed home.

It was a fun little night, talked a bit about mostly misc nonsense (no real comic/geek talk) but so far it seems like we're going to end up as FwB. I mean I didn't really feel anything for her romantically, but we have alot in common (She plays MtG and I'm an old vet at it. She's an old vet at comics and I'm barely getting back into it) so I can definitely see a fun relationship coming from this. Not to mention she's fantastic under the sheets. The only negative that really hit me through the night was her mentioning her bi-sexuality. I mean, I have nothing against people like that, it's just that most of the time it comes off as half-assed when it comes to same-sex play. More like it's a hobby for them more than a lifestyle, she however, proved that I had nothing to worry about there.

Already in talk (texts) about our next outing. She's definitely someone I could finally attend a "comic/game con" with, so that's another big plus.


#60

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

All of that = nice.


#61

Norris

Norris

1/2 of me: Wow, that sounds like a lovely time. :)

Other 1/2: *Sobbing in a corner*


#62

figmentPez

figmentPez

Cosplayer Tallest Silver reviews Batwoman #1 (or tries to)



#63

fade

fade

Shegokigo said:
Not sure wherelse to update this, so here goes:

So Saturday night's date went pretty damn well. Met up at one of my favorite little dive bars here in town. I was absolutely blown away by how good she "cleaned up". Not that she didn't look cute before in her comic T and jeans but seeing her in strap buckle dress boots, long trench dress and her hair down was a very nice surprise. We were there no more than about an hour or so when she asked me if I wanted to watch a movie. Since there really wasn't anything at the theatre and I had already made a few small moves on her, I told her I wouldn't mind rewatching something at her place.... We got about a quarter through *REC2 (which she hadn't seen yet that I got her to download/watch) before we weren't watching the screen anymore. Woke up on Sunday, went out for breakfast, talked a little more then I headed home.

It was a fun little night, talked a bit about mostly misc nonsense (no real comic/geek talk) but so far it seems like we're going to end up as FwB. I mean I didn't really feel anything for her romantically, but we have alot in common (She plays MtG and I'm an old vet at it. She's an old vet at comics and I'm barely getting back into it) so I can definitely see a fun relationship coming from this. Not to mention she's fantastic under the sheets. The only negative that really hit me through the night was her mentioning her bi-sexuality. I mean, I have nothing against people like that, it's just that most of the time it comes off as half-assed when it comes to same-sex play. More like it's a hobby for them more than a lifestyle, she however, proved that I had nothing to worry about there.

Already in talk (texts) about our next outing. She's definitely someone I could finally attend a "comic/game con" with, so that's another big plus.
Click to expand...
Go on.


#64

Covar

Covar

Ok, I read more. Thoughts in no particular order.

Detective Comics - Not bad, unsure where it takes place in the new timeline. I liked that they de-aged Gordon (or it's an early story where he's not yet Comissioner).
Batman & Robin - Loved it. Tomasi continues to be my favorite current Bat-writer. I just love stories where Batman & Robin work and fight together. My favorite so far.
Justice League International - meh. It seems to be at an odd spot right now since Justice League is an origin story right now (which hasn't even gotten started yet really). Maybe if it came out 4 months down the line it would be better.
Mister Terrific - Surprised me. It wasn't perfect, had one scene in particular that was just extremely odd and out of place. Also, Power Girl?
Demon Knights - Didn't expect one of the characters to be there. Overall not much happened. I do like the Demon so I'll keep reading, art was nice.
Legion Lost - I was only slightly less confused than when I read the first issue of the last Legion Lost (must read if you're a Legionnaire fan).
Superboy - Decent. Liked the art, story wasn't bad. Need Young JusticeTeen Titans to come out now.
Animal Man - It was good. Art was ok, up until Buddy's dream. I'll be getting this monthly.

So All of these were decent, but there was one Marvel title that came out this week that put every other book to shame. If you are not reading Daredevil you are seriously missing out.


#65

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Me too. been meaning to write about this for a few days. I'd say the art in Animal Man was better than okay, most especially once the horrific stuff in the last couple of pages started appearing. It's twisted and slightly off, which works for the book's twisted setting,.

Mr. Terrific - It's some fun, solid superhero stuff with some really neat ideas (like his secret lair). It's got some potential and it's enough for me to at least check out the next issue.

Demon Knights - I wasn't crazy about this at first. Like Covar, I agree that not a lot happened. But then I realized that it's a Seven Samurai style story, but in a fantasy setting. So it's all set up for the moment. Plus...DRAGONS! How awesome.

Frankenstein, Agent of S.H.A.D.E. - I didn't enjoy this as much as I thought I did, but it's still a lot of fun. The art's hit and miss, but mostly hit. Basically, this is like DC's version of Mike Mignola's BPRD and it works. Definitely one I'll keep picking up for now.

Resurrection Man - It's Abnett & Lanning, who have done some amazing work like the above mentioned original Legion Lost, along with pretty much all of Marvel's cosmic stuff from Annhilation and on. This is up there with Animal Man, in my opinion. Can't wait for more.

Oh, and although it's not DC...

Ultimate Spider-Man #1 - The debut of our new Ultimate Spider-Man, Miles Morales. And I have to admit, he's a likeable character. He's different in a lot of ways from Peter Parker and it looks like his powers won't be exactly the same. But I like that about the book. As always, Bendis brings some great character moments.


#66

Norris

Norris

Suicide Squad - Liked it, but it was no Secret Six. King Shark didn't brag about being a "fucking SHARK!" once. :( Still, good. Liked the Black Canary cameo.

Grifter - Interesting start. Interesting premise. I really believe that part of the reason for this relaunch is streamline their marketable properties with an eye towards other media, and I can soooo see Grifter as TV show or movie based on this issue alone.

Mister Terrific - More solid than I had expected. Dug it. Keep him in his own corner of the DCU and I think it will work very nicely. Did anyone else connect the Doctor Who reference on the third page with the concept of his secret lair existing outside normal space-time? or am I just seeing things that aren't there? And GOD I hope Karen Starr is still Power Girl and they aren't just fucking with us.

Green Lantern - It's Green Lantern. Seriously. Could have been issue #68. Which is just fine, but still. Not really feeling relaunched here.

Batman & Robin - Wow, I actually really enjoyed the Bruce/Damian dynamic. I was really "meh" about Tomasi's run with Dick/Damian, but this issue really hooked me. Plus, being as this is the only Batman book I read, glad to see a definite Batman, Inc. presence in the DCU.

Superboy - I was really not sure about picking this one up, only did because it ties directly into Teen Titans (which I am looking forward to). Went in with few expectations, got something very much worth reading. Still not sure I like completely rebooting the relationships of the current crop of Titans, but we shall see.

Resurrection Man - DnA are great. While mostly a slow intro, it really did move (packed a lot of stuff in for something that ultimately felt slow) when it wanted to. Another one I can see as a TV series.

Frankenstein, Agent of SHADE - Loved it! From SHADE's HQ, to the slightly different (from their Flashpoint counterparts) Creature Commandos, to Father Time's new body, good weird science/magic fun.

Legion Lost- Huh. Not bad. Was not a fan of
Gates and Chameleon Girl dying
but I will see where it goes.


#67

Kovac

Kovac

How does the Wonder Woman reboot work?

It has been rebooted along with the rest of the DC lineup but didn't it have a reboot already just a few short months ago?


#68

Covar

Covar

Batman - Read it. Scott Synder is an excellent and welcome addition to the Bat Family.
Nightwing - If you like Dick (Grayson that is) you'll probably already be reading this. It was pretty good.
Supergirl - I wish DC would remember that they have fonts for Kryptonian and Interlac alphabets. This book was like Justice League, really needs issue 2.
Blue Beetle - I need to brush up on my Spanish. I like Tony Bedard, didn't give Jamie a chance with his last book, but liked him in Teen Titans and especially in Batman: Brave and the Bold. first issue was just that, same as Supergirl.

That's all I've read so far from this week. I still have Legion of Super-Heroes, Wonder Woman, Birds of Prey, DC Comics Presents (Deadman's book so far), and Green Lantern Corp waiting on my stack.


#69

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Didn't pick up anything this week. Can't say I was interested in anything, honestly. I might still pick up Wonder Woman but I haven't decided.

So, now that DC's first month of their new universe is nearly done, what's going on your pull list? My picks are ones that I feel (optimistically, that is) won't have much crossover interference in them:

-Animal Man
-OMAC
-Demon Knights
-Frankenstein
-Resurrection Man
-Mr. Terrific (at least trying #2)
-Action Comics (I think; I'm still trying to get #1 from my local comic store)


#70

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

Have alot of reviews to make, as I just finished up the last few comics I picked up on Wed.

I will say this though, I've read/gone through my issue of Catwoman three times. Those who've read it, know why.


#71

Norris

Norris

Birds of Prey - Other than a bad case of "Remember the new guy", pretty good. Still, little more than a part one. All the team books so far have had that.

Blue Beetle - Why are we completely retreading his origin? Other than that, OK.

Green Lantern Corps - May have well just continued the old numbering. Still, good as usual.

Red Hood and The Outlaws - What. Just...what? Hate the Starfire characterization. HATE IT. Just enough interesting to keep me to issue 2. Barely.

Legion of Super-Heroes - Another almost-no-changes book. But Paul Levitz knows his shit, so that is A-OK.

Nightwing - Good start, genuinely interesting mystery. I like Dick Grayson a lot.

Wonder Woman - YES BITCH! Focused on the "involved with Greek myth" aspect over the "costumed hero" aspect. Dug the hell out of it. On. Fucking. Board.

Next Week:
Aquaman
Blackhawks
The Flash
The Fury of Firestorm: The Nuclear Men
Green Lantern: New Guardians
Teen Titans
Voodoo (which I am only buying on the strength of Grifter, them both being Wildcats and both books maybe involving Daemonites)

With two, maybe three exceptions (Red Hood, Legion Lost, and Voodoo), I don't see myself cutting any DC books. Which means I am trying to make deep, deep cuts to the marvel side of my list.

On a side note - I loaned (and will continue to loan) a bunch of my DC comics to the cute girl who may or may not be into me. So yeah.


#72

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

Norris said:
On a side note - I loaned (and will continue to loan) a bunch of my DC comics to the cute girl who may or may not be into me. So yeah.
Click to expand...
Want to... snark... so bad, but don't wanna drag Asking sub-forum into here... damn you...


#73



kaykordeath

If you didn't pick up Scott Snyder's Batman you missed out on what I'd say has been the best book of all 3 weeks. Including Action. And for that you are less of a human being.

As for Catwoman. I enjoyed it, but I do regret the loss of
Selena knowing Batman's identity


#74

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Meh. Batman will sell, regardless. I'm gonna support the books that will struggle because people can't move away from their safety blanket characters.


#75



Rubicon

Can someone explain the continuity...? I pick up a few issues of the New 52 (sold out of most) and its like they just threw new fans in the pan of fire on this one. Case in point, Batman #1, you see the Robin's (and Nightwing) ok it at least mentions their name and such but you're just supposed to assume he's had three Robins? Or Green Lantern #1, Hal lost his ring, Sinestro is back etc etc

I get the old storylines, been reading DC for 20+ years now but looking at it from a "new fan" angle, they seem to expect you to know a lot off hand.


#76

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Unfortunately, the Bat and GL franchises are continuing more or less unchanged compared to everyone else. Green Lantern #1 may as well have just been #80-something, whatever was next in the series, pre-reboot.

If you really want to come into it as a new fan, I'd say check out the non-big names like Animal Man and Frankenstin.


#77

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

I think there are people who want to read the characters, Nick. Animal Man may be better than the rest, but sometimes, people want to read about Batman.

In which case, I believe Detective Comics and Action Comics are "starting over" titles, while Batman and Superman are both going on their own thing. Many of them seem to be of their own devices and you just need to roll with it to see where they'll fall continuity-wise.


#78



kaykordeath

Rubicon said:
Can someone explain the continuity...? I pick up a few issues of the New 52 (sold out of most) and its like they just threw new fans in the pan of fire on this one. Case in point, Batman #1, you see the Robin's (and Nightwing) ok it at least mentions their name and such but you're just supposed to assume he's had three Robins? Or Green Lantern #1, Hal lost his ring, Sinestro is back etc etc

I get the old storylines, been reading DC for 20+ years now but looking at it from a "new fan" angle, they seem to expect you to know a lot off hand.
Click to expand...
For GL, you know all you need to know...in terms of plotting. Hal has lost his ring, and his ring has chosen Sinestro as his replacement. If you are curious about the how/why, you can read the books prior to the reboot, but if not, that's the start of the current storyline/conflict.

And yes, Batman has had 3 Robins. The current one is his biological son Damian Wayne.


#79

Gryfter

Gryfter

kaykordeath said:
For GL, you know all you need to know...in terms of plotting. Hal has lost his ring, and his ring has chosen Sinestro as his replacement. If you are curious about the how/why, you can read the books prior to the reboot, but if not, that's the start of the current storyline/conflict.

And yes, Batman has had 3 Robins. The current one is his biological son Damian Wayne.
Click to expand...
There are 4 by my count, but maybe the reboot changed the continuity a little. There's Dick Grayson (now Nightwing), Jason Todd (now Red Hood), Tim Drake (now Red Robin), and finally Damien Wanye(plain old Robin). There's also Stephanie Brown but she seems to have gotten the shaft completely in this reboot as she appears to be absent entirely; no longer Robin, Batgirl or Spoiler.


#80

Covar

Covar

Change that was made and absolutely love, Bruce Wayne adopting Dick from the start, no more antiquated "ward."


#81

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

So now that the first round of 52 is over.... what the fuck is up with continuity?

Is the "new" Justice League/Action comics in the same universe as Green Lantern#1 etc? Are Batman, Detective Comics, Catwoman, Batgirl, Suicide Squad all in the same universe/storyline?

I'm lost as shit.


#82

Norris

Norris

They're all the same universe, most of the old stories happened in some form or another, and both Action Comics and Justice League take place in the past.


#83

Gryfter

Gryfter

Shegokigo said:
So now that the first round of 52 is over.... what the fuck is up with continuity?

Is the "new" Justice League/Action comics in the same universe as Green Lantern#1 etc? Are Batman, Detective Comics, Catwoman, Batgirl, Suicide Squad all in the same universe/storyline?

I'm lost as shit.
Click to expand...
It's a good thing they rebooted the whole universe to make it easier for new and returning readers to understand everything.


#84

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

That's why I haven't picked anything up yet. Confusion.

All I know is that Justice League, Action Comics, and Detective Comics take place "Five Years Ago", and I only learned that from Linkara. No idea how the varied titles cross. I would prefer each title be its own continuity, but I doubt they'd do that.

I'm still interested in Justice League Dark.


#85

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

I'm fine with it being one big universe, I just wanted to make sure. There was also nothing to imply that it was taking place "5 years ago". Also in the Green Lantern #1 it doesn't say SHIT about Sinestro's past other than his Warlord days. His affiliation with the Yellow Lanterns and the whole "betrayal" thing is just not in the least bit explained. I just want to know if this is all new continiuty, then what's all that about or are we supposed to wait and see and forget the past?


#86

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

The Green Lantern stuff is basically just continuing on from all the previous stuff up to before the reboot. GL #1 could easily just be GL #80-something. I think the Batman stuff falls into a similar category, but I'm really not sure.

I think this intial confusion is going to hurt DC in the long run. They had an incredible first month, but the next six months are going to be very interesting to watch. They've already said that all the titles out now will be given minimum 6 issues. I highly doubt Red Hood & the Outlaws is going to last past that.


#87



kaykordeath

Gryfter said:
It's a good thing they rebooted the whole universe to make it easier for new and returning readers to understand everything.
Click to expand...
It's only confusing if you think about it from the frame of mind of a longer term reader who cares about "shared universe" and "continuity". Which most new readers aren't...give them time to appreciate those nuances.

JL had a box in the second panel that says "Five years ago." Action is slightly move vague but it makes it clear Superman is fairly "new" on the public scene.

As for the GL/Sinestro bit? Yeah, that's probably the weakest point, but I'm hoping that most of what is NEEDED knowledge will c ome out...right now, as the story goes, this guy has the ring, doesn't want it, other GLs dont want him to have it, the blue guys wont take it away...that right there is the start of the story's conflict.


#88

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

I'm trying really hard to "forget" what I've learned over the last 5 months of GL and look at it with open eyes, but I can see someone picking up GL1 for the first title ever and saying "What the fuck is going on with any of this?"


#89

Norris

Norris

So I've decided to drop Red Hood, instead going with Paul Levitz's Huntress mini. Voodoo might get dropped (haven't gotten it yet but I have heard not good things) in favor of The Shade limited series. Likewise, Legion Lost has to wow me with its second issue to avoid being replaced by LoSH: Secret Origin, also by Levitz.

Also, I am so jazzed for the new Defenders series coming from Marvel in December.


#90

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

This is nitpicking, but man, why would they get rid of Dr. Strange's awesome cloak? Now he just looks like some kung-fu guy that fight in tournaments with Iron Fist?


#91

Norris

Norris

ThatNickGuy said:
This is nitpicking, but man, why would they get rid of Dr. Strange's awesome cloak? Now he just looks like some kung-fu guy that fight in tournaments with Iron Fist?
Click to expand...
The cloak was one of the vestments of his office as Sorcerer Supreme. There isn't a Sorcerer Supreme anymore. So no cloak. He's been rocking a trench coat and business suit for two years now, this is kind of step back into super-hero fashion.


#92

Covar

Covar

Read some more

Justice League Dark - Why are you going to change one of the greatest Costumes in the DC Universe? Art's nice, story was okay, and why the hell do they keep having Constantine shooting energy blasts on the covers?

Batman: the Dark Knight - Like all the other Batman books it was good. Not as good as Batman and Batman & Robin, but a good read.

Teen Titans - Unsure what to think about this yet. Things I liked and things I didn't.

Fury of Firestorm - Wow, Jason came across as a complete ass. Don't know how I feel about the 2 separate Firestorms.

I still got more to read.


#93

twitchmoss

twitchmoss

I enjoyed the hell out of the previous jaime reyes blue beetle series, and was really stoked for a new run. i'm... kind of less so now, what with the 'hiding his identity' retcon thing. i know, i know, its a reboot, so stuff changes. but the fact that his family *did* know about it early on was one of the more interesting aspects of the character :\

is it still worth picking up? or should i wait a while longer.


#94

Norris

Norris

This week, for the first time ever, Back To The Past screwed up and missed something on my pull sheet. It was Voodoo #1, which I was considering dropping on the reviews alone. I take this as a sign.

Blackhawks - Decent. Not anything amazing, nothing terrible either. Held my interest.

The Fury of Firestorm The Nuclear Men - Other than that fucking title, I really enjoyed it. Intrigued by this new take on the origins. Seemed very...filmable, I guess.

Green Lantern New Guardians - Well other than nothing really happening, I liked it. Felt like an issue zero you'd get for free. Still, worth sticking aroumd.

The Flash - Much better than I was expecting. I generally am leery of artists who take over writing duties, but Manapul brings it.

Aquaman - YES BITCH! This. Was. Perfect.

Teen Titans - Good start. interested in how this shapes up.

This week I also played catch up using the digital comics system (which is surprisingly good). Demon Knights, Animal Man, and Supergirl will all be added to my already overfull Pull List.


#95

Kovac

Kovac

Norris said:
1) Congratulations!

2) As a slightly pudgy, average looking comic book nerd who can't even talk to girls romantically, I hate you with every fiber of my soul. Nothing personal.
Click to expand...
Well that's just creepy.

You describe me AND we share a name


#96

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

I almost picked up Justice League Dark, but I swear it was thinner and full of more ads than the other comic magazines I glanced at on the shelf. Not worth $3 to me.


#97

Covar

Covar

So let's see, except for GL:Corps, New Guardians, and the Savage Hawkman I've read all the first issues I'm going to.

Superman - I'll probably be in the minority here, but I liked it better than Action Comics. Much like how DC re-focuses their attention on Bruce Wayne/Wayne Enterprises and Gotham City itself, it's very refreshing and I'm happy to see the Daily Planet staff becoming characters again.

Flash - Francis Manipul's Barry Allen seems to actually act more like Barry Allen then Geoff Johns's writing of the character ever did. Yet another book reset to before the point of the super-hero marriage. At least it better be, particularly because of the in canon cause of the restart.

Aquaman - I love the art of Ivan Reis. The story has promise, but I'm wary after Geoff Johns's last couple of works (and yes that includes GL).

Blackhawks - It has potential. I hope that the Lady Blackhawk mentioned in the beginning is Zinda, but somehow I doubt it.


#98

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

So I love me some Batman but pretty much dislike everything Robin/Nightwing/Batwing etc related. I like it simple. Batman vs Villains. What trades should I be picking up month to month and what's the difference between: Detective Comics - Dark Knight and Batman?


#99

Norris

Norris

My....my comics....they didn't arrive today. This...this is the first time that's happened. Ever. They mail them Wednesday, USPS moves them across the state on Thursday, I get them Friday. This is the part where Kit goes berserk.

I'm starting to get the shakes. And possibly hallucinate. Either that or Stormwatch is trying to recruit me. Either or.

In all honesty though, I'm a little worried by this development. Nearly $30 worth of comics I already paid for failed to arrive on time. That's...that's a potential problem, to say the least. And I'm pretty damned sure it isn't Pete at Back To The Past's fault.


#100

Covar

Covar

Shegokigo said:
So I love me some Batman but pretty much dislike everything Robin/Nightwing/Batwing etc related. I like it simple. Batman vs Villains. What trades should I be picking up month to month and what's the difference between: Detective Comics - Dark Knight and Batman?
Click to expand...
Punisher.


#101

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

That.... didn't help...


#102

Frank

Frankie Williamson

Norris said:
The cloak was one of the vestments of his office as Sorcerer Supreme. There isn't a Sorcerer Supreme anymore. So no cloak. He's been rocking a trench coat and business suit for two years now, this is kind of step back into super-hero fashion.
Click to expand...
Is Brother Voodoo not the Sorcerer Supreme anymore?

Also, I...uh...read most of the 52 #1s. I didn't read DC before and these did not help. If DC thinks these comics are going to pull in the mystical person who doesn't buy comics but wants to, they're dead wrong (in my case anyway). I think the most jarring one to read was Red Hood and the Outlaws. I watched the Teen Titans cartoon and I dug it so that probably biased me somewhat. Those characters in that comic were fucking awful.

The only one that got me remotely interested was Detective Comics and wanting to know what the Joker is up to.


#103

Norris

Norris

Frankie Williamson said:
Is Brother Voodoo not the Sorcerer Supreme anymore?
Click to expand...
Spoilers for a year old storyline:

In the pages of New Avengers, Brother Voodoo helped the team battle Agamotto who was making a play to get his eye (in the form the Sorcerer Supreme's amulet) back. In the course of the battle, they realized that this would be very bad for humanity so Voodoo sacrificed himself in a magic explosion that destroyed The Eye of Agamotto and banished Agamotto from Earth permanently. With the Eye and The Cloak of Levitation destroyed, there isn't really a Sorcerer Supreme anymore.


#104

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

So...... difference between:

Detective Comics
Dark Knight
Batman

?


#105

Frank

Frankie Williamson

Different writers and artists. Different Batman stories. They don't make any sense that they're happening at the same time (Wolverine style). Detective Comics is the only one that made me give a crap.


#106

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

So then there's zero difference, just more stories per month?

I'm already following Batgirl, Suicide Squad and JLA so I really didn't want to follow more than one Batman title.


#107

Norris

Norris

Shegokigo said:
So then there's zero difference, just more stories per month?

I'm already following Batgirl, Suicide Squad and JLA so I really didn't want to follow more than one Batman title.
Click to expand...
Well, each writer is going to have their own take on Batman but if you mean in basic premise, then no. All three are Batman fighting villains solo.


#108



kaykordeath

Detective is more, well, crime-solve-y detectivey.

Batman is more about Batman being a hero/badass. But it's also written by Scott Snyder who many (myself included) consider one of the single biggest and best upcoming authors. He wrote the last arc on Detetective dealing with the return of Com. Gordon's potentially psycopath son, James Jr.

It would get my vote of the 3, Shego.


#109

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

So we're almost 4 months into the new DC. How's everyone finding it?

Personally, I'm still picking up the same books as I had from the start: Action Comics, Superman, Demon Knights, Resurrection Man, OMAC, Frankenstein, and Animal Man. And I'm still digging all of them. Like Shego said in another thread, I'm basically treating most of them as stand-alone titles. There's some light crossovers occurring now, like the upcoming OMAC/Frankenstein, which I can't wait for. But overall, they've been very self-contained, something I'm very happy to see. Especially in comparison of Marvel's "crossover ALL the books!"

I've also started buying The Shade. It's not as good as Starman, but I'm still enjoying it. It's certainly better than (writer) Robinson's writing in quite a long time.


#110

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

"Like Shego said in another tread"

Why not post in my thread/!?!?!?!

;)


#111

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Because it wasn't there when I wrote that! Yeesh!


#112

Frank

Frankie Williamson

Almost every new 52 comic I've read has been shitty and convoluted. The sales may not agree, but I think this experiment was garbage.


#113

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Which ones are you reading? I've honestly been steering clear of most of the big name titles (Superman & Action aside, though thinking of dropping Superman).


#114

Bowielee

Bowielee

I picked up the Flashpoint trade, and haven't even been able to get into it. I found it kind of boring. I'm not a fan of an entire reboot like this. I still don't understand why they didn't do a seperate imprint, like with the marvel ultimate line, but oh well. Comics are really low on my priority list at the moment.


#115

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

Bowielee said:
I picked up the Flashpoint trade, and haven't even been able to get into it. I found it kind of boring. I'm not a fan of an entire reboot like this. I still don't understand why they didn't do a seperate imprint, like with the marvel ultimate line, but oh well. Comics are really low on my priority list at the moment.
Click to expand...
I thought that was what they were trying to do with the All-Stars comics, which were half-fail.


#116

Frank

Frankie Williamson

Quotemander Prime said:
I thought that was what they were trying to do with the All-Stars comics, which were half-fail.
Click to expand...
Yeah, the Superman one was COMPLETE garbage. All-Star Batman though, best comic in 20 years.

It was so good that it would do it a disservice for Miller and Lee to finish it.


#117

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

Went from 25 pulls a month to:

Batgirl
Batwoman
Catwoman
Detective Comics
Deathstroke
Supergirl
Suicide Squad
Action Comics
Justice League
Justice League International
Green Lantern
Green Lantern Corps
Green Lantern New Guardians
Red Lanterns
Wonder Woman

With Supergirl and Batgirl dropping soon unless some serious changes take place.

The best way to enjoy this "revamp" is to treat each comic as it's own stand alone series. Ignore everything previous, ignore any kind of continuity between them and you have some solid stories and great art.


#118

Bowielee

Bowielee

I'm not a fan of non-crippled Babs for 2 reasons.

She was awesome as Oracle.

She was one of the very few disabled characters in comics that was awesome.

Now it's just, who, Daredevil?


#119

figmentPez

figmentPez

Bowielee said:
Now it's just, who, Daredevil?
Click to expand...
Did Professor X start walking again? I know he does that from time to time.


#120

Bowielee

Bowielee

figmentPez said:
Did Professor X start walking again? I know he does that from time to time.
Click to expand...
He's dead, I think. He's done that multiple times too.


#121

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

Bowie, your avatar is made of awesome and win.

Figured I should point that out.


#122

Frank

Frankie Williamson

Bowielee said:
He's dead, I think. He's done that multiple times too.
Click to expand...
He's dead again?

He's fucking worse than Magneto.


#123

Norris

Norris

Frankie Williamson said:
He's dead again?

He's fucking worse than Magneto.
Click to expand...
Nope. Professor X is currently alive, telepathic, and walking. He's just been pushed somewhat out of focus the last few years in favor Cyclops (who has morphed into a fiercely pragmatic survivalist and de facto leader of all mutantkind...at least until Wolverine and a few X-Men decided to leave the mutant island nation of Utopia and rebuild the school).


#124

Covar

Covar

Bowielee said:
I'm not a fan of non-crippled Babs for 2 reasons.

She was awesome as Oracle.

She was one of the very few disabled characters in comics that was awesome.

Now it's just, who, Daredevil?
Click to expand...
Yea I dropped Batgirl. I think it's sad that these are the stories they desperately needed Barbara in order to tell. It's about as bad as when Barry came back and did nothing but act like an angry brooding loner who didn't have time for everything.

On a related note I've been surprised with how much I'm enjoying Manapul's Flash. It's not perfect, but it's miles ahead of Geoff John's Barry Allen.

Frankie Williamson said:
Yeah, the Superman one was COMPLETE garbage. All-Star Batman though, best comic in 20 years.

It was so good that it would do it a disservice for Miller and Lee to finish it.
Click to expand...
No they were indeed half-fail. People like to forget this and just praise ASS, but the All-Star line was supposed to be a complete line, with a different superstar creative team writing each arc. The problem was ASBAR was terrible, and both titles had the absolute worst creative teams for sticking to any kind of schedule. It's hard to promote a line when it takes you 3 years to get out one arc (out of 2 attempted).


#125

Frank

Frankie Williamson

ASBAR was the best/worst comic ever made. It never failed to make me embarrassed to have ever read comics and yet still was unintentionally hilarious enough to keep me interested in a masochistic way.

I really liked All Star Superman, which is about the first time I've ever said I've liked anything Superman related. But I never bought issue to issue and only ever picked up the trade like I do with all comics now.


#126

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Personally, I find both Morrison and Quitely to be hit and miss...and unless they're working with each other. It's like they bring out the best in each other. That said, I flipping love All Star Superman. It may have been delayed out the yin-yang, but at least it finished. Miller and Lee can't say that.


#127

Frank

Frankie Williamson

So, I guess the number 1 reboot thing was enough to give DC 3 months as the number 1 comics company. Marvel's back on top again.

I don't know how many people are like me but the whole thing turned me off of DC more than anything.


#128

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

Not sure vs the amount of people like me who hadn't bought a comic book in almost 10yrs (other than a graphic novel here or there) are now buying 10+ trades a month.


#129

Gryfter

Gryfter

Frankie Williamson said:
So, I guess the number 1 reboot thing was enough to give DC 3 months as the number 1 comics company. Marvel's back on top again.

I don't know how many people are like me but the whole thing turned me off of DC more than anything.
Click to expand...
Aww that's okay DC, maybe next year you can reboot the whole line again and get four months at the number one spot.


#130

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

I hope not, because that'll pretty much end my fresh new journey into comics again.


#131

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

As others have said before the relaunch started, the real question whether the reboot is successful starts around now. Even though Marvel's back on top, I'd say DC's doing a lot better, now. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure they've picked up a healthy chunk of new readers.


#132



kaykordeath

Marvel is back on top for dollars, by just over half a percentage point by charging a dollar more for a vast majority of books and unit share double shipping a number of their top titles plus publishing approximately 30 titles more than DC.

DC had 8 of the top 10 titles for the month.

I'm sure DC isn't running scared by any means.


#133

Norris

Norris

Exactly. Marvel is winning by sheer numbers, but DC is still dominating the top ten charts. Considering Marvel's been beating the pants off of them for about a decade, I'm inclined to say that DC's still doing well.


#134

Bowielee

Bowielee

Lately, I've found myself turned off to most of the big 2's comics period. I think the last marvel thing I read was Seige and the run of Thor prior to it and the last DC thing I read was Brightest Day.

The X-men titles are a big old mess. Spider-man hasn't been readable for years. I generally hate the whole concept of the reboot and the wave of bringing all the silverage DC heroes back from the dead.


#135

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/dc-new-52-new-titles-120112.html

Six of the new 52 titles are being cancelled. 6 new ones are being launched.

The cancelled:
-Men of War (no loss, there)
-Mister Terrific (I dug it at first, but no surprise)
-O.M.A.C. (I loved it, sad to see it go, but it was one of the lowest selling, so no big surprise.)
-Blackhawks (mercy killing)
-Static Shock (no surprise)
-Hawk & Dove (mercy killing)

I'm honestly surprised that Red Hood & the Outlaws managed to miss the cut.

The new titles:
-Batman Incorporated, by Grant Morrison and previous Batman Inc. artist, Chris Burnham
-Earth 2, by James Robinson and Nicola Scott
-World's Finest, by Paul Levitz, George Perez, and Kevin McGuire. Apparently about an Earth 2 Power Girl and Huntress in this DC universe.
-The Ravagers, by Howard Mackie (who I think hasn't written for comics in a long time) and Ian Churchill. Apparently about a group of super-teens on the run from N.O.W.H.E.R.E.
-G.I. Combat - Looks to be a mix of some of the classic Silver Age war-style stories like The War that Time Forgot and the Haunted Tank. Could be good.
-Dial H, by novelist China Mieville. It's a mix of superheroes, horror, sci-fi, and "lots of psychological ramifications" for the main character. Sounds like they're resurrecting the old Dial H for HERO property, which has me excited. There was a similar title years ago called H.E.R.O. that was great. We'll see if that's the case here.

So what do you think, folks? Anyone broken hearted over any of the titles here? I'll miss the hell out of OMAC.

EDIT: I missed Hawk & Dove and subsequently added it.


#136

Covar

Covar

Only one I was still reading was Men of War and that was because I want a good War comic. I hated that they kept shoving some weird supernatural aspect into the Sgt. Rock story. Hopefully G.I. Combat is good.
Added at: 15:30
I also want to add that I thought The Ray had a really strong first issue. Pretty much the book I was hoping to get with the new Blue Beetle. Hopefully it continues to be good and gets turned into an ongoing.


#137

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

Nope, still enjoying the hell out of my titles, and none of those were on my list. Still currently with:

Detective Comics
Batgirl
Batwoman
Suicide Squad
Red Lanterns
Green Lantern
Green Lantern Corps
Green Lantern: New Guardians
Wonder Woman
Action Comics
Supergirl
Justice League
Justice League Intl
Deathstroke


#138



kaykordeath

Only one on my list being cut is OMAC.

A for the new ones: I'll be back on board with Batman Inc. I'm enjoying enough of Teen Titans (and Superboy) to give Ravagers a try. I kinda dig when novelists take a first stab at comics, and the concept has always been a very fun one in my book, so I'll pick up Dial H.

I've never gotten into Earth 2 and/or the JSA so that's a pass...and while I'd lump Powergirl in that group as well, I do like Huntress...so I may trade wait Worlds Finest.

I'm not reading the current war comic and have no interest in the new one.


#139

Frank

Frankie Williamson

Ravagers sounds a lot like Runaways.


#140

AshburnerX

AshburnerX

Honestly, I like the Static Shock comic, but it was also one of the comics that kept it's continuity. This means that from the very start, there are tons of things you know nothing about, such as his friends from Dakota and his cloned sisters (!?). Considering he's not well known outside of people who followed his comics or TV show years ago, this was a REALLY stupid move.

I honestly think they should just boot him off to the Titans again. He's a much better character when he's got people to play off of. Maybe put him on Young Justice to get his name out there again.


#141

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

All the Green Lantern titles sadly are the same way (previous continuities) so it's been frustrating too.


#142

Norris

Norris

Two of those are on my pull list (Static Shock and Mr. Terrific). Super excited about Earth-2 (JUSTICE SOCIETY!) and Batman, Inc. might be pretty good. The Ravagers...more information required. What characters are in it mainly.


#143

Steve

Steve

From iFan "DC will cancel six titles, so we still end up with a straight 52, which has been a hell of a marketing term for them. Readers can say goodbye to the following titles with their eighth issues:
Blackhawks, Hawk & Dove, Men of War, Mister Terrific, O.M.A.C., and Static Shock."
If I'm reading this right DC will only have 52 titles at any one given time? And Static Shock had a title? Wow.


#144



kaykordeath

52 regular "in universe" monthly ongoings.

There are also additional miniseries, all ages titles, DC Presents reprints, among others.


#145

AshburnerX

AshburnerX

Steve said:
From iFan "DC will cancel six titles, so we still end up with a straight 52, which has been a hell of a marketing term for them. Readers can say goodbye to the following titles with their eighth issues:
Blackhawks, Hawk & Dove, Men of War, Mister Terrific, O.M.A.C., and Static Shock."
If I'm reading this right DC will only have 52 titles at any one given time? And Static Shock had a title? Wow.
Click to expand...
Static's has a title at LEAST 4 times. His original run, his first DC run, then he was in the Teen Titans for awhile, then he had a second DC run. This makes 4.

What bothers me is that the comic is only failing because they fucking moved him away from Dakota. That meant all of his enemies were 7 states away, leaving him to fight some really stupid looking kids on flying bikes. Seriously... it's like they set him up to fail.


#146

@Li3n

@Li3n

Shegokigo said:
All the Green Lantern titles sadly are the same way (previous continuities) so it's been frustrating too.
Click to expand...
If they weren't we'd be torching DC headquarters right now...


#147

Bowielee

Bowielee

@Li3n said:
If they weren't we'd be torching DC headquarters right now...
Click to expand...
It would be a particularly stupid move seeing as the Green Lantern runs starting with the Light War have been the best that DC has produced in decades.

As much as I hated them bringing back all the silver age incarnations just because, the Green Lantern titles have been consistently good.


#148

Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

Bowielee said:
It would be a particularly stupid move seeing as the Green Lantern runs starting with the Light War have been the best that DC has produced in decades.

As much as I hated them bringing back all the silver age incarnations just because, the Green Lantern titles have been consistently good.
Click to expand...
You're not biased or anything there, are you, Mr. Hal Jordan Impersonator? :zoid:

*
Yes, I know that's actually Krona


#149

Frank

Frankie Williamson

Wait, wait, wait, wait.

Hawk and Dove was cancelled? What the fuck am I supposed to do without the two lamest superheros ever created? Not even Justice League Unlimited and Wayne and Kevin Arnold could make them not fucking awful and that show managed to make Vigilante and Shining Knight rad.

Holy Jesus Christ.



I hope whoever ok'd this however many years ago was fired from life.


#150

Bowielee

Bowielee

Ravenpoe said:
You're not biased or anything there, are you, Mr. Hal Jordan Impersonator? :zoid:

*
Yes, I know that's actually Krona
Click to expand...
Let's just put it this way. I've never bought any comic book swag sort of stuff before. I got those rings pretty much solely on the fact that those stories were some of the best comics I've ever read.


#151

Covar

Covar

Remember when Sinestro was a horrible villain who controlled his planet like Hitler controlled Berlin (not a Godwin, this was an actual allusion)? Neither does Geoff Johns.


#152

@Li3n

@Li3n

Covar said:
Remember when Sinestro was a horrible villain who controlled his planet like Hitler controlled Berlin (not a Godwin, this was an actual allusion)? Neither does Geoff Johns.
Click to expand...
Actually i'm pretty sure that if the criminals he was using as meat shields started killing aryans Hitler would be pretty pissed too...
Added at: 13:15
Frankie Williamson said:
Wait, wait, wait, wait.

Hawk and Dove was cancelled?
Click to expand...
They also had someone that goes by Rob drawing it... i think someone at DC thinks the same about Hawk and Dove...


#153



kaykordeath

Covar said:
Remember when Sinestro was a horrible villain who controlled his planet like Hitler controlled Berlin (not a Godwin, this was an actual allusion)? Neither does Geoff Johns.
Click to expand...
Actually, that's been the focal point of Sinestro in a Green Lantern uniform returning to his home planet and being confronted with just that...so I'd say he remembers fairly well...


#154

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

The thing that's most upsetting for me, is that the GL titles are what I look forward to the most and I have NO idea where I should start to get the full back story.

I haven't read ANYTHING GL before 52 (other than wiki entries) and everytime I ask the question, I'm told I need to go back about 10yrs and hundreds of dollars. Something about the prophecy of the multiple light spectrums, then the actual Blackest Night/Brightest Day series which is broken up into so many different books I'd have no idea how to follow it.


#155

Covar

Covar

Shegokigo said:
The thing that's most upsetting for me, is that the GL titles are what I look forward to the most and I have NO idea where I should start to get the full back story.

I haven't read ANYTHING GL before 52 (other than wiki entries) and everytime I ask the question, I'm told I need to go back about 10yrs and hundreds of dollars. Something about the prophecy of the multiple light spectrums, then the actual Blackest Night/Brightest Day series which is broken up into so many different books I'd have no idea how to follow it.
Click to expand...
War of the Green Lanterns was the last big GL event before the new 52 and contains the most important things relevant to the post-flashpoint GL (i.e. Sinestro as a Green Lantern again, Death of Mogo, everything involving the Guardians, etc.).


#156

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

But War of the Green Lanterns was an after effect of somethingelse wasn't it?


#157

@Li3n

@Li3n

Shegokigo said:
I haven't read ANYTHING GL before 52 (other than wiki entries) and everytime I ask the question, I'm told I need to go back about 10yrs and hundreds of dollars. Something about the prophecy of the multiple light spectrums, then the actual Blackest Night/Brightest Day series which is broken up into so many different books I'd have no idea how to follow it.
Click to expand...
Yeah, the 10 year thing is kinda unavoidable, but you can skip the dollars part easy... :unibrow:


#158

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

Yeah but I enjoy owning large collected trades.

I guess I'd mostly like to start at the Blackest Night series with one big collected trade that covers the majority of what I need to know, then Brightest Day, then War then 52.


#159

@Li3n

@Li3n

Shegokigo said:
I guess I'd mostly like to start at the Blackest Night series with one big collected trade that covers the majority of what I need to know, then Brightest Day, then War then 52.
Click to expand...
As i recall that's actually kinda late... you need to start a bit earlier, when the first of the other lantern corps shows up... i'm not sure if it's Sinetro War or even earlier then that...

Hell, you could even start here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Lantern:_Rebirth , it's pretty much where Johns started all this.


#160

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

See, I have Rebirth and I still felt kind of lost.

I read up on the past (How Kyle, Guy, Stewart became Lanterns and the whole Paralaxx storyline) on wikis but I was wondering if that was really the point I should have started on. After Rebirth can I just get large collected trades on Sinestro Wars? Is that the next step?


#161



kaykordeath

While the large scape story telling of GL has been VERY tightly knit together, I'd wager that other than WANTING (and enjoying) the detailed history, you can take any of the above (Blackest Night, Brightest Day, even reboot) as a starting on point and the details DO fill in rather nicely.

Going off this:
http://stefanmesch.wordpress.com/2011/06/29/green-lantern-timeline-reading-order/

I'd say start at #54...2007...so maybe the last 4 years worth....
It only feels like 10 when you factor in Green Lantern plus Green Lantern Corps titles....


#162

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

Good god that was alot to take in. I think I'd want to start at Rebirth and work my way toward Blackest Night, then Brightest Day, then War of the Lanterns, but I'm wondering exactly what to pick up to accomplish this. I think I may have to give my comic book shop owner an annurism and ask him to help.


#163



@li3n...

Shegokigo said:
See, I have Rebirth and I still felt kind of lost.

I read up on the past (How Kyle, Guy, Stewart became Lanterns and the whole Paralaxx storyline) on wikis but I was wondering if that was really the point I should have started on. After Rebirth can I just get large collected trades on Sinestro Wars? Is that the next step?
Click to expand...
Well i myself started with Sinestro War back when it came out, so i'm not sure... of course that was way after i learned a lot of backstory stuff from wiki, which helps...

Of course there's also a lot of retconning going on (the original paralax story had no yellow entity, just Hal going crazy), so frankly just going with the wiki and reading everything after Rebirth should do, with the missing pieces being slowly covered by retcons...


#164

Bowielee

Bowielee

Really, if you're being a completist about it, you have to go all the way back to the death of Superman arc, which is the trigger point for Hal becoming Parallax, but honestly, Rebirth is a good place to start.

All you need to know going in is that Hal had gone rogue and killed off most of the lantern corps and Senestro, became a godlike entity and tried to restart time in his perfect vision of it. After that he started regretting what he'd done and sacrificed himself to restart earth's sun after it was consumed by a Sun Eater. Following that, he became the new host for the Spectre. That leads right into Rebirth.

After Rebirth, I'd jump right into the Sinestro Corps War, then Blackest Night, followed by Brightest Day, then the Lantern War. That will hit all the high points.


#165

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

Now the only question is, are there large collected trades?


#166

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Not really. The most each collection covers is 6-7 issues. There's a complete Sinestro Corps trade now, whereas before they had it split into three volumes (stupid, if you ask me).


#167

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

So I'm annoyed. I was loving the new 52 Run of Deathstroke but then of course came the announcement of Liefeld coming in on issue #9 so I told my comic book shop to stop my pull at #8.

So what's Deathstroke#9 going to be about?
Deathstroke vs Lobo.
FML


#168

Norris

Norris

Second wave starts next week. I'm really looking forward to Earth Two and World's Finest, thought I'm leery of the treatment my beloved JSA will be getting.


#169

Frank

Frank

Shegokigo said:
So I'm annoyed. I was loving the new 52 Run of Deathstroke but then of course came the announcement of Liefeld coming in on issue #9 so I told my comic book shop to stop my pull at #8.

So what's Deathstroke#9 going to be about?
Deathstroke vs Lobo.
FML
Click to expand...
Yeah, but it's Liefeld Lobo.

I don't want to even know what that looks like.


#170

figmentPez

figmentPez

Frank said:
Yeah, but it's Liefeld Lobo.

I don't want to even know what that looks like.
Click to expand...
Google image search says it looks like this:
bwulf1lee.jpg


#171

Bowielee

Bowielee

I still want to know how that guy ever got a career in comics....

I have extra bile for him because he destroyed one of my favorite teams of all time. I used to love the New Mutants so much. He's even responsible for making them take on the EXTREME name X-Force. The only good things he ever did were created Deadpool and Cable, both of which were only made great after someone took them away from him and did their own thing.


#172

Norris

Norris

Bowielee said:
I still want to know how that guy ever got a career in comics....
Click to expand...
Honestly, I don't think his work on the 1988 Hawk & Dove mini or pre-X-Force in general was that bad. As seen here. The problems seem to have started after New Mutants rose up through the sales charts under his pencils and he became a star.


#173

Gryfter

Gryfter

Bowielee said:
I still want to know how that guy ever got a career in comics...
Click to expand...
He is a case of right place right time, he hit at a time when new art styles were the popular thing. I really loved his jeans ad where he admitted to having no formal training... and was proud of that. :rolleyes:


#174

Bowielee

Bowielee

It also still baffles me that they allow Frank Miller to pencil his own comics. He really is a crap artist (I'll leave the quality of his writing open for debate).


#175

Covar

Covar

No he's a crappy writer too. His pencils used to be really good, but he drastically deteriorated over time. A lot of artists do, but his work is particularly noticeable. JRJR is a similar case.


#176

Bowielee

Bowielee

I still like John Ramita Jr's work. But honestly, it's like the guy should have been an architect rather than a comic book artist. His art is so boxy.


#177

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

He should draw GL: John Stewart comics! Hey oh!


#178

Bowielee

Bowielee

Well, given who his father is, I'm sure that he was probably all like:

"I don't want your life!"
I Don't Want Your Life varsity Blues.jpg


And his dad was like:

"Shut up and draw Spider-Man"


#179

Covar

Covar

Last time I saw something drawn by JRSR all I could think was "the man's still got it." Love, love, LOVE John Romita Sr's artwork.


#180

Norris

Norris

Read all four of the wave two books that came out yesterday.

Dial H - Definitely a keeper! Will probably be Animal Man's replacement on my pull list.
G.I. Combat - Two stories in one book. "The War That Time Forgot" seems promising
Two American soldiers are caught in a dinosaur infested radio/satellite dead zone in North Korea
but the first issue here was mostly set up. Unknown Soldier was pretty damned cool though. Sticking around for the second issue at least.
World's Finest - First issue was pretty slow, mostly set up. Art was great. I have faith in Paul Levitz, so I'll be sticking around.
Earth 2 - Fan. Fucking. Tastic. When the cover was first announced, I was immediately leery - The Trinity fighting Parademons? Didn't we get six issues of that in Justice League? Covers for subsequent issues, featuring modern takes on Jay "The Flash" Garrick and Alan "Green Lantern" Scott made curious. The first issue sold me on the concept. Total spoilage:
The first issue deals mostly with The Trinity fighting the last battle of the ApokolipsWar (AKA Darkseid's invasion). Things have not gone well up to now - Metropolis is a Parademon stronghold leaving Lois Lane dead, Amazon Island and all of its inhabitants except Wonder Woman have been destroyed, and the Roman Gods that supported them are dying in battle as well. Batman has devised a computer virus that will destroy all the Parademon control towers, Supes and Wondy are covering his approach to the Metropolis tower. Helena "Robin" Wayne is covering them in the Bat Jet, Supergirl is covering the military's last resort nuclear option. Wonder Woman is killed by Apokoliptian general Steppenwolf, Superman is blown to smithereens by surprise attack, Batman's plan succeeds in destroying the Parademon Control Towers but kills him in the process, and Robin & Supergirl fly headlong into a mysterious energy rip never to be seen again (except on New Earth). Earth is safe...and without heroes. Incidentally, one of the military teams controlling a tactical nuke cannon was lead by five foot nothing soldier Al Pratt...wonder if that'll be important? Five years later, GBC president Alan Scott watches the final cut of his documentary (which he's giving away for free, feeling the subject too important to profit from) about the war on his private jet as he flies over the still smoking craters left over from the invasion. In Lansing, MI (SQUEE!), recent college graduate Jay Garrick is being rather harshly dumped by his girlfriend. That night, as he considers what she said, the god Mercury crashes to Earth with a grave warning and that's all for this ish. Is it June 6th yet?


#181

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

With Deathstroke dropped from my pull, I picked up Earth 2 today. Looks very promising.

I refuse to buy World's Finest with the shit job they did on Power Girl (and I'm not even talking about the lack of boob window).


#182

Norris

Norris

Shegokigo said:
I refuse to buy World's Finest with the shit job they did on Power Girl (and I'm not even talking about the lack of boob window).
Click to expand...
What are you talking about, if I may?


#183

AshburnerX

AshburnerX

I imagine it lacks the fun and energy of the last 2-3 years pre-52, which was the only reason it was worth reading in the first place.


#184

filmfanatic

filmfanatic

For anyone that has been holding out until the trades, DC has released the schedule for the volumes of the new 52:

May
June
July
August
September
October
November
  • BLACKHAWKS VOL 1: THE GREAT LEAP FORWARD
  • BLUE BEETLE VOL 1: METAMORPHOSIS
  • CAPTAIN ATOM VOL 1: EVOLUTION
  • DC UNIVERSE PRESENTS VOL 1 FEATURING DEADMAN & CHALLENGERS OF THE UNKNOWN
  • THE FLASH VOL 1: MOVE FORWARD
  • RED HOOD AND THE OUTLAWS VOL 1: REDEMPTION
  • SUPERMAN VOL 1: WHAT PRICE TOMORROW?


#185

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

I'm guessing this is just a collection of the first few issues?


#186

filmfanatic

filmfanatic

Shegokigo said:
I'm guessing this is just a collection of the first few issues?
Click to expand...
Pretty much. They're your standard volumes they sell, putting a few issues together into a trade. Just thought I'd post it up for anyone that was waiting for the volumes to be sold before going in.

I admit I'm among this group, but I did check out a few of the #1s when they were released. I also checked out some of the Second Wave, one of which I'm really interested in is Dial H. I had read some of China Mieville's novels and like the direction he's stating out with the Dial H for Hero concept.


#187

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

So far have 1-9 of everything I'm interested in. However I'm going be dropping another 4 or so from my pull list. I'm really turned off by this whole "Court of Owls" thing. I hate cross-overs that make you buy from a series you don't read at all, or worse, buy entire side comic sets to get the story. I want to follow my character, I want to buy her series and not have to buy anythingelse to see what happens to her.

So yeah, I'm basically dropping all my "Bat" trades with the exception of Batwoman and a few of my others like: Supergirl and Action.


#188

filmfanatic

filmfanatic

For someone getting into the new 52 with these volumes, which ones would you recommend?


#189

Norris

Norris

Shegokigo said:
So far have 1-9 of everything I'm interested in. However I'm going be dropping another 4 or so from my pull list. I'm really turned off by this whole "Court of Owls" thing. I hate cross-overs that make you buy from a series you don't read at all, or worse, buy entire side comic sets to get the story. I want to follow my character, I want to buy her series and not have to buy anythingelse to see what happens to her.
Click to expand...
I don't know, I only read the peripheral bat-books (Batwing, Red Hood, Nightwing, Birds of Prey, and Batgirl) and I think they've done an excellent job keeping each story self contained. Each hero/team fights a different Talon, each book gives you the information you need to understand the Court of Owls, and each series features its protagonist triumphing over their Talon. No "Follow Red Hood to Batman: Dark Knight #9!" foolishness in sight.

filmfanatic said:
For someone getting into the new 52 with these volumes, which ones would you recommend?
Click to expand...
Wonder Woman, OMAC, Aquaman, Firestorm, Deathstroke, Batwing, Suicide Squad, generally most of the B-Level titles.


#190

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

Deathstroke was good till they let Leifeld take the reins on issue #9. I dropped it then.

Suicide Squad, Wonder Woman, Bat Woman, Detective Comics, Action Comics, (IF you have some backround history on the Lantern storyline) Green Lantern was decent, New Guardians also decent, Red Lanterns is fan service but Corps was downright amazing. Justice League was also fantastic in setting up this new reboots JL series.


#191

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

I find my interest in the 52 has been slowly degrading. My original list was:

OMAC (cancelled)
Mister Terrific (ended, but I dropped it long before that)
Superman (dropped)
Action Comics (still holding, but tentatively)
Animal Man (still going strong and loving it)
Resurrection Man (dropped it, especially after reading the trade of the original series, which was much better)
Frankenstein (still going and still sort of digging it)

I think might drop them all and get what I want in trade, instead (like Animal Man and Frank). Honestly, the more I watch Young Justice, the more I prefer it as my main source for the DCU over this stuff. Especially now that they're hyping that Trinity War event, which I have no interest in at all. Not to mention that the majority of the characters are just over-designed. I like the idea behind Superman's armour, for example. There's another comic coming out soon called Superman Family or something. The artist uses the current, new suit for the costume, but it's much more simplified, looking more like a uniform than armour, and it works much better than Jim Lee's design.

As for what to recommend, filmfanatic? Most assuredly Animal Man. That's probably one of the best mainstream books right now. If you dig that, I'd also recommend Frankenstein. I hear Swamp Thing is good (I plan on getting the trade, as I missed out on the monthlies). Action Comics is mostly solid, though there's a couple of one-shot stories in the middle of the first storyarc that aren't qutie as good. I've heard Batwoman's been great. OMAC, especially if you're at all a fan of Jack Kirby; the comic is basically a love letter to him, but still doing its own thing. And while I haven't been interested in it myself (might check out the trade), Aquaman has been at the top of a lot of people's lists.


#192

AshburnerX

AshburnerX

Batman Beyond Unlimited is great if you watched the show.


#193

Bowielee

Bowielee

If Nick dropped a Superman book, you know it has to be terrible.


#194

filmfanatic

filmfanatic

Thank you all for the recommendations, you guys. This will help as I finally take the full plunge into the new 52.


#195

Bubble181

Bubble181

Bowielee said:
If Nick dropped a Superman book, you know it has to be terrible.
Click to expand...

The Epic Story of One Man, Facing his Troubles as he Realizes he's not actually an Alien, but it's all part of his alcohol-induced hallucinations. :devil:


#196

@Li3n

@Li3n

Bubble181 said:
The Epic Story of One Man, Facing his Troubles as he Realizes he's not actually an Alien, but it's all part of his alcohol-induced hallucinations. :devil:
Click to expand...
L...lll...liiieeessss... ^hic^


#197

Frank

Frank

So, after much speculation, they've revealed which iconic DC character is gay (in a totally non-exploitational way, comics don't do that kind of thing).

It's the Earth 2 version of the Green Lantern no one gives a shit about, Alan Scott.

I dunno, maybe I'm just being cynical but it really does seem more like a me-too thing with the Marvel Northstar deal going on right now than an actual honest to goodness stab at making a non-stereotypical gay character. But then, that's comics right? I guess it's a step up that he's not Dick Gayhard the Rainbow Cowboy (oh wait, Marvel did that already). How long did it take for black characters to not have black in their names?


#198

AshburnerX

AshburnerX

Why is this even an issue? We already have great gay DC characters, who's sexual orientation isn't really that much of a defining characteristic for them ANYWAY. Why do they feel the need to "reveal" established ones that no one cares about as being gay as well? It's clearly meant to drive sales and the long time fans know this.


#199

Covar

Covar

What's funny is that Alan Scott had a gay son in prior to the New 52. Oh well, if they even bother, they'll probably just have Thorn rape him or something so they can still have Obsidian. Because who gives a fuck about Jade, amirite?


#200

Bowielee

Bowielee

Covar said:
What's funny is that Alan Scott had a gay son in prior to the New 52. Oh well, if they even bother, they'll probably just have Thorn rape him or something so they can still have Obsidian. Because who gives a fuck about Jade, amirite?
Click to expand...
That was my reaction... Um... Jade and Obsidian?

This is just a stupid, stupid ploy. There are any number of Golden Age characters that this could actually work for, but Alan Scott is not one of them.


#201

@Li3n

@Li3n

Is Earth 2 set in the 1940? Because that's the only way i see this actually being interesting even a little bit...


#202

Norris

Norris

Frank said:
So, after much speculation, they've revealed which iconic DC character is gay (in a totally non-exploitational way, comics don't do that kind of thing).

It's the Earth 2 version of the Green Lantern no one gives a shit about, Alan Scott.

I dunno, maybe I'm just being cynical but it really does seem more like a me-too thing with the Marvel Northstar deal going on right now than an actual honest to goodness stab at making a non-stereotypical gay character.
Click to expand...
That depends. It takes about six months (or at least it did in the 90's, it may be less than that now but it's presumably still at least four) to take a comic from start to finish. Northstar has been out and proud for twenty plus years, a major character in X-Books on and off for about a decade. When did Marvel start hinting at his upcoming wedding?

AshburnerX said:
Why is this even an issue? We already have great gay DC characters, who's sexual orientation isn't really that much of a defining characteristic for them ANYWAY. Why do they feel the need to "reveal" established ones that no one cares about as being gay as well? It's clearly meant to drive sales and the long time fans know this.
Click to expand...
The thing is that it is editorial making a big deal of this. Based on the promo page they released, while it is a "big reveal" in the issue itself, it's not a "big deal" in the long run. The character is gay, out of the closet, and has a boyfriend - it's the reader for whom this is a big change. Like The Flash's connection to the Roman Gods , the deaths of the Trinity, and Kendra Saunders being the first Hawkgirl, this is just another one of the differences on new Earth-2.

Likewise, its not really a "reveal an established character is gay" situation any more than Mortal Kombat (2011) revealed that Sub-Zero was a cyborg. New continuity, new character history.

Covar said:
What's funny is that Alan Scott had a gay son in prior to the New 52. Oh well, if they even bother, they'll probably just have Thorn rape him or something so they can still have Obsidian. Because who gives a fuck about Jade, amirite?
Click to expand...
None of the Infinity, Inc. generation exist. Jay Garrick just graduated from college for goodness sake, his peers can't have adult children. If anything, the new Alan Scott is gay precisely because of Pre-Flashpoint Obsidian.

We've seen editorial make too big of a deal about this, we've seen one page of the actual issue, but we haven't seen how this is actually handled long term. Personally, I think the best way to handle it is to make Alan Scott essentially the same character he's always been (with setting and origin updates, of course) who just happens to be gay and in a relationship. Let's allow the next issue or two to drop before writing it off completely. Remember when Batwoman was announced? Besides, Robinson has a decent track record with gay characters, as I understand it.

And please knock it off with the "no cares about the Justice Society" crap. I get that you're saying that the mainstream isn't familiar with them and that Alan Scott isn't who most people think of when people think Green Lantern, however the Justice Society had their own series from August 1999 to October 2011 (with only a four month gap between the October 2006 JSA #81 and the February 2007 Justice Society of America #1 to break the stride), not counting the multiple spin-off minis and on-goings. The team has fans, dammit.


#203

Bowielee

Bowielee

Norris said:
And please knock it off with the "no cares about the Justice Society" crap. I get that you're saying that the mainstream isn't familiar with them and that Alan Scott isn't who most people think of when people think Green Lantern, however the Justice Society had their own series from August 1999 to October 2011 (with a four month gap between the October 2006 JSA #81 and the February 2007 Justice Society of America #1 to break the stride), not counting the multiple spin-off minis and on-goings. The team has fans, dammit.
Click to expand...
I love the Justice Society, but they could have chosen so many other characters that would make more sense. Alan Scott is actually my favorite character from that era and I feel one of the few who kept relevant in the mainstream universe as well. Obviously, I'm not at issue with more gay characters, but really, why make Alan Scott gay?


#204

Norris

Norris

Bowielee said:
I love the Justice Society, but they could have chosen so many other characters that would make more sense. Alan Scott is actually my favorite character from that era and I feel one of the few who kept relevant in the mainstream universe as well. Obviously, I'm not at issue with more gay characters, but really, why make Alan Scott gay?
Click to expand...
If I'm being cynical, I'd say it is to take the place of Obsidian on the list of gay DC characters. If I'm being optimistic, I'd say its because this is a New Earth-2 which is re-imagining all the JSA characters and their origins. The shortest is: I don't know yet. Alan Scott appeared on all of two pages in the first issue.


#205

AshburnerX

AshburnerX

Here's what I don't get... wasn't the entire idea behind the New 52 that all the heroes had only been doing the hero thing for a few years at most? So... why is the JSA around? The entire point of the JSA was that it was sort of the "old guard"'s club, where they took in the new guys and got them up to snuff. But if Super Heroes are relatively new, this kinda puts the JSA in a weird area.

Anyone more familiar with the JSA in the reboot able to give me some idea of the point of it now?


#206

Covar

Covar

It's back to being Earth-2, and they are/becoming (I haven't read Earth-2 yet) the current generation of heroes on that world.


#207

AshburnerX

AshburnerX

Why... THE FUCK... are they adding in alternate universes? They already admitted that the idea behind those things was just fucking confusing for new readers.


#208

Covar

Covar

1) because it's far less confusing than most the run-around crap they had to come up with post-crisis in order to keep around a lot of the great characters and concepts they had before the collapse of the multiverse.
2) It was never that confusing, unless you're the same mystical reader that somehow needs to be made aware of Superman's origin, or one of those "die-hard trekkies" who can't seem to grasp that the divergent timeline in the new movie did nothing to wipe the original series out of continuity.
3) The mythical new reader that needs everything dumbed down and will be confused if everything doesn't line up with the movie they just saw is bogus. More often than not things like the reboot and movies result in short term bumps, new readers that do stick around would have regardless of when they started reading. As far as the new 52, most the people I've talked about it have been a) existing DC readers who had drastically been cutting their list prior, b) former DC readers who has stopped, and,or c) Former Marvel Zombies.


#209

Norris

Norris

AshburnerX said:
Why... THE FUCK... are they adding in alternate universes? They already admitted that the idea behind those things was just fucking confusing for new readers.
Click to expand...
There are literally two titles handling alternate universes on any sort of regular basis - Earth-2 (which says in the title that it's a different earth) and World's Finest (which is about two refugees from Earth-2 living in the mainstream DCnU, no more confusing than time travelers or aliens). The only time alternate universes become remotely confusing to new readers is when they become required reading to understand what's going on in the "mainstream" universe, and even then its not that confusing if it's written properly. Comics have had the concept of "multiverses" and "imaginary stories" for something like sixty years. They will NEVER go away. Even when DC said "No More Mulitverse!", it took about ten years for them to decide "But there is Hypertime" and half that for them to say "Elseworlds are OK too".

Anyhow, to answer your first question
AshburnerX said:
Anyone more familiar with the JSA in the reboot able to give me some idea of the point of it now?
Click to expand...

It's new 52'ing the Golden Age, basically. Cliff's notes on what is known so far: Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman all died successfully repelling an Akopolitian invasion of Earth. There have been no super heroes in the last five years. Earth-2, from issue two forward, will chronicle the rise of The Justice Society as the second generation of Earth's protectors as they prepare to face a threat even greater than that of the invasion. The Flash is recent college graduate Jay Garrick, who will receive his speed powers from the dying Roman god Mercury and essentially be Wonder Woman's spiritual successor. He's also a Michigander from the state capitol of Lansing, which makes me absurdly happy. Green Lantern is Alan Scott who will get his ring...in issue three but will be one of the most powerful heroes once he does and will essentially be Superman's spiritual successor. Hawkgirl is...I swear I read that they were going with Kendra Saunders but now I can't find it. Anyhow, she shows up in issue three as well and she will be Batman's sprititual successor as a super detective. We'll also be seeing Mr. Terrific, who migrated to Earth-2 at the end of his own series and is a super science hero almost in the Marvel mold, as well as Atom Smasher. I personally think that Atom Smasher is going to be Al Pratt, who showed up in the first issue as a soldier guarding a high tech nuclear weapon that was the Plan-B if The Trinity had failed to take out the towers. We've also got the seeds of Hourman (Jay Garrick's girlfriend dumps him as she leaves town for a job at Tyler-Chem, Hourman is chemist Rex Tyler) and The Guardian (a guy named "Harper" was part of Pratt's squad, Jim Harper was the original Guardian and had the same boxing trainer as Al Pratt).

I'm sort of excited about this series, if you didn't notice. Not only is it my beloved Justice Society, it's also about 10x more carefully planned out than the "Four Robins in five years" DCnU.


#210

Norris

Norris

Sorry for the double post, but here's a CBR interview with series writer James Robinson about the announcement.


#211

Bowielee

Bowielee

Blech... I don't like the idea of the JSA being the new guard rather than the old guard.

Then again, I hate the new universe as a whole.


#212

Covar

Covar

Read Aquaman.


#213

Bowielee

Bowielee

I've dropped DC entirely over this. I've tried reading Flashpoint, but I just HATED it.


#214

Covar

Covar

Well that's your problem. Flashpoint is not worth your time. As a whole I find myself enjoying the n52 about the same as the post-crisis universe. There's new things I like (Aquaman, A flash book worth reading, anything with Batman in the title.), new things I hate (Why have Bart Allen and not Wally West?!?! Especially since he's irrelevant to the Flash and hasn't even been mentioned by Barry Allen outside of Teen Titans).


#215

AshburnerX

AshburnerX

The only DC Titles I read right now are Batman Beyond Unlimited (because this should have happened A LONG TIME AGO), All Star Western (Love me some Jonah Hex), and Suicide Squad (which I may drop now.) There really isn't much to keep me there anymore.


#216

tegid

tegid

Bowielee said:
I've dropped DC entirely over this. I've tried reading Flashpoint, but I just HATED it.
Click to expand...
Yeah, Flashpoint was terrible, but there are some really strong titles going on right now. Wonder Woman has been really good, most of the 'dark' titles (JL Dark, Animal Man, Swamp Thing), Aquaman...


#217

Bowielee

Bowielee

Well, the last comic book period that really sucked me in was the Green Lantern series of titles through Brightest Day.


#218

evilmike

evilmike



#219

Covar

Covar

Starfire has always been slutty, and Barry's mom was killed when Geoff Johns brought him back before the relaunch (difference being the book is good now).

Wally and Donna is funny.


#220

Norris

Norris

Also, the "Never Robin" thing is almost distinction without difference. He was still Batman's partner (for an indeterminate amount of time, but it has to be less than a year before striking out on his own for the timeline to even pretend to work), but he simply called himself "Red Robin" from the beginning.


#221

Yoshimickster

Yoshimickster

Covar said:
Starfire has always been slutty, and Barry's mom was killed when Geoff Johns brought him back before the relaunch (difference being the book is good now).

Wally and Donna is funny.
Click to expand...
Its not just that Star Fire is slutty its that her original nice personality has pretty much vanished!


#222

Covar

Covar

You mean her "I'm so bubbly until I decide someone needs to be murdered, don't judge me by your moral standards, that's the Tameranian way!"? Yea. Starfire's a nutter. Always has been.


#223

Yoshimickster

Yoshimickster

Covar said:
You mean her "I'm so bubbly until I decide someone needs to be murdered, don't judge me by your moral standards, that's the Tameranian way!"? Yea. Starfire's a nutter. Always has been.
Click to expand...
True I meant she's mean now! Unlikable, abhorrent, generally despicable. The old Star Fire had her problems but at least she was likable.


#224

@Li3n

@Li3n

Covar said:
and Barry's mom was killed when Geoff Johns brought him back before the relaunch (difference being the book is good now).
Click to expand...
Batman, GL and Flash basically didn't change from where they where before Flashpoint, they just got some slight retcons...

I wonder if Barry's mom was still killed by Zoom...


#225

Yoshimickster

Yoshimickster

Does anyone else find beardless Aquaman weird? For the past couple years Aquaman has been a swarthy bearded man and now he's back to Golden Age clean shave? Not a complaint, just weird to me is all.


#226

Norris

Norris

Yoshimickster said:
Does anyone else find beardless Aquaman weird? For the past couple years Aquaman has been a swarthy bearded man and now he's back to Golden Age clean shave? Not a complaint, just weird to me is all.
Click to expand...
Uh, Aquaman hasn't rocked the beard since about 2001.


#227

Yoshimickster

Yoshimickster

Norris said:
Uh, Aquaman hasn't rocked the beard since about 2001.
Click to expand...
No your right, I'm thinking of the cartoons. I personally he looks cooler with the beard, but I can deal.


#228

Bowielee

Bowielee

I grew up with him not having the beard, so this is actually return to form for me.

As for the reboot, still not reading it. It's mostly due to time factors, but I may pick up trades of Batwoman at some point as I heard that it is a great comic and one that's minimally affected by the reboot seeing as the character is relatively new.


#229

AshburnerX

AshburnerX

I hear the new Animal Man stuff is also pretty awesome. It's some hardcore horror stuff now.


#230

Bowielee

Bowielee

Ever since Alan Moore did his run on Animal Man, he's been mostly awesome.


#231

Norris

Norris

I found Animal Man to be very "meh". Batman by Scott Snyder, on the hand, lives up to the hype. Earth 2 is crazy good, but I've been a giant JSA fan since I was eight so there's likely a bias at play.

Oh, Wave Three started last month. Team 7 #0 and Sword of Sorcery #0 had strong potential, but neither really slapped me in the face and grabbed my attention.


#232

Yoshimickster

Yoshimickster

In the comic Animal Man is in " The Ravagers" Beast boy is just red right? They didn't fuck with his personality and character development right? RIGHT?!


#233

Bowielee

Bowielee

Animal Man has his own book right now. It sounds pretty similar to the Vertigo stuff from a few years back. If beast boy is red now, it may be due to "The Red" which is the morphogenic field that Animal Man taps in for his powers. Like Swamp Thing is part of "The Green".
http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/linkara/longbox-of-the-damned/36821-lotd-animal-man-the-hunt
Linkara just did a longbox of the damned about it:


#234

Norris

Norris

Yoshimickster said:
In the comic Animal Man is in " The Ravagers" Beast boy is just red right? They didn't fuck with his personality and character development right? RIGHT?!
Click to expand...
Uh...hard to say. Beast Boy really hasn't had much to do, so he's coming off as pretty bland thus far in Ravagers.


#235

Yoshimickster

Yoshimickster

Norris said:
Uh...hard to say. Beast Boy really hasn't had much to do, so he's coming off as pretty bland thus far in Ravagers.
Click to expand...
DAMMIT! And I knew about "The Red" but I still think its weird that Beast Boy is red because of that. Not because he looks different, but the fact that he is red similar to Animal Man's "The Red" it signifies that Beast Boy is Animal Man's side-kick. Wasn't he a full on super-hero a few years ago by the name of Changeling? It feels kind-of like he's devolved.


#236

AshburnerX

AshburnerX

He became Changeling because he kinda got too old to be calling himself Beast Boy. That's really all it comes down to and it's why most incarnations (Teen Titans, Young Justice, etc) still use Beast Boy.


#237

Yoshimickster

Yoshimickster

AshburnerX said:
He became Changeling because he kinda got too old to be calling himself Beast Boy. That's really all it comes down to and it's why most incarnations (Teen Titans, Young Justice, etc) still use Beast Boy.
Click to expand...
True, but for me when young DC comic supers gain an adult tital it feels like they've gone through a right of passage. Like they are there own hero now. Just my opinion is all.


#238

Norris

Norris

Yoshimickster said:
DAMMIT! And I knew about "The Red" but I still think its weird that Beast Boy is red because of that. Not because he looks different, but the fact that he is red similar to Animal Man's "The Red" it signifies that Beast Boy is Animal Man's side-kick. Wasn't he a full on super-hero a few years ago by the name of Changeling? It feels kind-of like he's devolved.
Click to expand...
....How so? In the mythology they're building, The Red is the spiritual connection between all animals (red like blood, I think was the idea) and The Green* is the connection between all plant life (which has been around since late 80's Swamp Thing, I think). Beast Boy (a name that they went back to using circa 2000, incidentally) being red denotes him as Animal Man's sidekick about as much as Poison Ivy being covered in green plant life makes her Swamp Thing's. There's no connection between the two except that their powers flow from the same supernatural source, albeit in very different ways.

And the change of name wasn't so much like "Robin to Nightwing" but more related to most of his original teammates/surrogate family dying. He certainly hadn't outgrown the name, as he was still pretty young at the time.

*But not on Earth Two. On Earth Two, The Green is the spark of all life and its champion is Green Lantern (Alan Scott). They also have The Grey, the force of entropy whose champion is Grundy.


#239

Covar

Covar

Norris said:
I found Animal Man to be very "meh". Batman by Scott Snyder, on the hand, lives up to the hype. Earth 2 is crazy good, but I've been a giant JSA fan since I was eight so there's likely a bias at play.

Oh, Wave Three started last month. Team 7 #0 and Sword of Sorcery #0 had strong potential, but neither really slapped me in the face and grabbed my attention.
Click to expand...
Phantom Stranger was abyssal, and Team 7 just has me looking forward to having the chance to read a book with Black Canary that isn't complete and utter shit. So far it's up in the air, although better than BoP, which it would have to work hard to be worse.


#240

Covar

Covar

There's going to be a Superman title worth reading

Seriously, how do you manage to botch your number 1 property?


#241

Norris

Norris

Covar said:
Phantom Stranger was abyssal, and Team 7 just has me looking forward to having the chance to read a book with Black Canary that isn't complete and utter shit. So far it's up in the air, although better than BoP, which it would have to work hard to be worse.
Click to expand...
I'm gonna have to disagree with you there. While Birds of Prey hasn't exactly been A-#1, I've been enjoying it. I dig all that undercover covert ops shit and was happy to see Black Canary "return" to it (in the Golden Age, she briefly had the schtick of going undercover and busting up gangs from the inside - its part of why she dresses like she does or so I'm told) so I might be a bit biased. I loved Birds of Prey #0:

It explains that Black Canary and Starling met when they were both infiltrating The Penguin's organization, which is also the source of their codenames. It also showed us that Starling works for Amanda Waller and is keeping tabs on Black Canary for her. That last bit had been foreshadowed the week before, in Suicide Squad #0, when Starling's picture was in Waller's recruitment file.
Overall, I think the introduction of this Team 7 mythology might make for a much deeper story among The Edge titles and I'm rather hopeful about it.
Covar said:
There's going to be a Superman title worth reading

Seriously, how do you manage to botch your number 1 property?
Click to expand...
1) I am looking forward to this book.
2) I personally think that Action Comics, at least what's been collected so far, was pretty damn good.


#242

Yoshimickster

Yoshimickster

Norris said:
....How so? In the mythology they're building, The Red is the spiritual connection between all animals (red like blood, I think was the idea) and The Green* is the connection between all plant life (which has been around since late 80's Swamp Thing, I think). Beast Boy (a name that they went back to using circa 2000, incidentally) being red denotes him as Animal Man's sidekick about as much as Poison Ivy being covered in green plant life makes her Swamp Thing's. There's no connection between the two except that their powers flow from the same supernatural source, albeit in very different ways.
Click to expand...
But I don't think Beast Boy's powers came from the red originally. Bitten by a mutant green monkey and and then healed and then got shape-changing powers and what not. His powers were more mad science than mystical force. I guess tying him to "the Red" makes sense, but I still think its a stretch.


#243

Covar

Covar

Yoshimickster said:
But I don't think Beast Boy's powers came from the red originally. Bitten by a mutant green monkey and and then healed and then got shape-changing powers and what not. His powers were more mad science than mystical force. I guess tying him to "the Red" makes sense, but I still think its a stretch.
Click to expand...
hmm, how to explain this. COMICS CHANGE! Jason Todd doesn't have red hair, and Superman's parents are dead (again).


#244

Norris

Norris

Yoshimickster said:
But I don't think Beast Boy's powers came from the red originally. Bitten by a mutant green monkey and and then healed and then got shape-changing powers and what not. His powers were more mad science than mystical force. I guess tying him to "the Red" makes sense, but I still think its a stretch.
Click to expand...
His new origin is still mad science (experimented on, metagene activated and connected him to The Red) but it links in to the greater mythology of the DCnU. And since The Red is, as I understand, a brand new concept...yeah, he wasn't tied to The Red previously because it didn't exist previously. Now Beast Boy, Animal Man, and (presumably) Vixen all draw their power from the same source. This gets down to a measure of taste, but I actually rather like that. Instead of three heroes with largely unconnected (although it was later "revealed" that Vixen and Animal Man's powers were tied into the same source) but very similar powers, we now have three heroes who each draw on the same energy field and use it differently.


#245

Bowielee

Bowielee

For the record, The Flash was tied to the Speed Force through an accident in the same way, so Beast Boy's being tied to The Red in a similar way is not unprecedented.

Also, I think that he went by Changeling longer than he did Beast Boy in the original DC universe.


#246

Norris

Norris

Bowielee said:
Also, I think that he went by Changeling longer than he did Beast Boy in the original DC universe.
Click to expand...
He went by Beast Boy from 1965 to 1980 (15 years, though he admittedly saw use sparingly during that period) and from 2000-present. That's 27 years and counting. He went by Changeling from 1980 to 2000, twenty years. Of course, he saw a lot more regular use during his 20 years as Changeling than he did during his first 15 years as Beast Boy.


#247

Bowielee

Bowielee

Yeah, that would have been his entire run that I was exposed to him, so I know him better as Changeling than as Beast Boy. So much so that I was mystified as to why they used Beast Boy in the Teen Titans cartoon.


#248

Norris

Norris

See, I'm the opposite - he's been Beast Boy for over half my life, and it was the half in which I was buying comics regularly. I personally prefer that codename, as "Changeling" sounds a bit too generic.


#249

Bowielee

Bowielee

Honestly though, he was more commonly referred to as Gar than he ever was by his code names in Teen Titans.


#250

Yoshimickster

Yoshimickster

Okay I can probably deal with Beast Boy/Changeling's redness since his origin is still intact. Its still extremely weird to me though. Gar is still silly in the new comic at least right?

Edit: Man he has quite a few nick-names doesn't he?


#251

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

This is somewhat unrelated, but I didn't feel like making a whole new thread for this:

The Unwritten, one of my favourite comic book series, will soon feature characters from another Vertigo title: Fables. Yeah, a crossover.

This honestly bothers me. The reason I pick up Vertigo titles or self-contained titles is because it's one creative team with (usually) an end in mind. Which is why I dropped Fables long ago. It started turning from this great series into a franchise, with spin-off titles and, ugh, crossovers. I shouldn't have to go from Volume 12 to Volume 13 of Fables and require reading Volume whatever of Spin Off Title #3.

Unwritten's writer, Mike Carey, has stated his has an end goal in mind for the series. And it's really one of the best books out there (like Fables once was). But if it's going to require knowledge of current events in Fables? I'm out. I'm done. I'll sell my copies of Unwritten and say fuck it.


#252

Yoshimickster

Yoshimickster

Superman's lack of red shorts...I feel neutral towards it. It doesn't take away from his image as a hero, but it doesn't add anything either. Honestly I can go either way.


#253

Frank

Frank

ThatNickGuy said:
This is somewhat unrelated, but I didn't feel like making a whole new thread for this:

The Unwritten, one of my favourite comic book series, will soon feature characters from another Vertigo title: Fables. Yeah, a crossover.

This honestly bothers me. The reason I pick up Vertigo titles or self-contained titles is because it's one creative team with (usually) an end in mind. Which is why I dropped Fables long ago. It started turning from this great series into a franchise, with spin-off titles and, ugh, crossovers. I shouldn't have to go from Volume 12 to Volume 13 of Fables and require reading Volume whatever of Spin Off Title #3.

Unwritten's writer, Mike Carey, has stated his has an end goal in mind for the series. And it's really one of the best books out there (like Fables once was). But if it's going to require knowledge of current events in Fables? I'm out. I'm done. I'll sell my copies of Unwritten and say fuck it.
Click to expand...
The Great Fables crossover soured me on the series.


#254

Yoshimickster

Yoshimickster

How was the first Justice League comic from the new Reboot? I heard mixed reviews.


#255

Norris

Norris

Yoshimickster said:
How was the first Justice League comic from the new Reboot? I heard mixed reviews.
Click to expand...
The first arc was pretty so-so (felt kind of rushed) but the Villain's Journey was pretty good...though come to think of it, the ending felt a little rushed on that one too. So mostly so-so, but the Shazam back-up is great (in my opinion).


#256

Yoshimickster

Yoshimickster

Norris said:
The first arc was pretty so-so (felt kind of rushed) but the Villain's Journey was pretty good...though come to think of it, the ending felt a little rushed on that one too. So mostly so-so, but the Shazam back-up is great (in my opinion).
Click to expand...
Good to know. By the way, is Captain Marvel really just called Shazam now? That I find really really weird.

Edit: I mean Black Adam uses Shazam. Mary Marvel used Shazam. Are they Shazam now too? Its just weird to me.


#257

Norris

Norris

Yoshimickster said:
Good to know. By the way, is Captain Marvel really just called Shazam now? That I find really really weird.

Edit: I mean Black Adam uses Shazam. Mary Marvel used Shazam. Are they Shazam now too? Its just weird to me.
Click to expand...
He's called Shazam now, because he's more explicitly the wizard's replacement as protector of Earth. And because DC will never get the trademark to "Captain Marvel" back from Marvel and they are therefore legally obligated to title/advertise anything the character stars in (comics, tv, movies, video games, anything) "Shazam" anyway. May as well call the character by a name they can advertise.


#258

Yoshimickster

Yoshimickster

Norris said:
He's called Shazam now, because he's more explicitly the wizard's replacement as protector of Earth. And because DC will never get the trademark to "Captain Marvel" back from Marvel and they are therefore legally obligated to title/advertise anything the character stars in (comics, tv, movies, video games, anything) "Shazam" anyway. May as well call the character by a name they can advertise.
Click to expand...
....seriously? Captain Marvel has been called Captain Marvel for over 60 years and NOW Marvel is pulling the plug.

And I just looked at what Captain Marvel looks like now...what the fuck? Why does he look like Altair ? Not just the cloak but the stoic face he's giving. I admit to not being that knowledgeable of Captain Marvel but from what I remember he was a nice smiley man. Reboots are fucking weird.


#259

AshburnerX

AshburnerX

Yoshimickster said:
....seriously? Captain Marvel has been called Captain Marvel for over 60 years and NOW Marvel is pulling the plug.
Click to expand...
Marvel has the entirety of the Disney legal team behind them. DC only has the Warner Bros.

DC's been doing this off and on ever since they bought the company that owned him. They'll do Captain Marvel for awhile, then shift over to Shazam, then switch back after a few years. It never sticks because the fans don't like it, the writers don't like it, and it usually ends up causing more problems by confusing the people who actually read the fucking comic.

And DC needs to get off their ass and give Captain Marvel a kid-friendly movie or TV show.


#260

Yoshimickster

Yoshimickster

AshburnerX said:
And DC needs to get off their ass and give Captain Marvel a kid-friendly movie or TV show.
Click to expand...
DAMN STRAIGHT! Its about a kid who can magically turn into an adult super-hero, kids would love that!


#261

AshburnerX

AshburnerX

Yoshimickster said:
DAMN STRAIGHT! Its about a kid who can magically turn into an adult super-hero, kids would love that!
Click to expand...
Kids HAVE loved that. Captain Marvel used to sell more issues than Superman. In the Golden Age. Elvis Presley stole his hair and wore it like that for years. By all rights and privileges Captain Marvel should still be as well known as Superman, but Marvel basically put the kibosh on that and prevented DC from properly using the character for decades.


#262

Yoshimickster

Yoshimickster

AshburnerX said:
Kids HAVE loved that. Captain Marvel used to sell more issues than Superman. In the Golden Age. Elvis Presley stole his hair and wore it like that for years. By all rights and privileges Captain Marvel should still be as well known as Superman, but Marvel basically put the kibosh on that and prevented DC from properly using the character for decades.
Click to expand...
....Elvis ripped off his hair cut? ELVIS?! So thanks to Marvel, a beloved pop-culture icon was dashed for ripping of a name that he had years before them. I. Fucking. Hate. CORPORATIONS!


#263

Bowielee

Bowielee

Actually, the current change in his name is story specific. (assuming that Day of Vengence is still valid in the reboot universe)

Shazam (the godlike mage who gave Captain Marvel his powers) was killed by the Spectre. Billy Batson had to become the new Shazam to ensure that the lineage of magical protectors continued. Mary Marvel is still Mary Marvel (or at least she was prior to the reboot and GOD, please tell me if they retconned all this crap that they undid all the shit they did with her through Infinite Crisis), Captain Marvel Jr is still Captain Marvel Jr, etc...

Again, this is based of the original continuity, as stated before I haven't followed jack since the reboot.

Eh, just wiki'd the new Captain Marvel post reboot and he got completely reset, so apparently none of that stuff happened.

This is another reason that the reboot pisses me off. Some of the best work DC comics had done in decades is just down the drain. Almost everything surrounding 52 was just great, IMO. Hell, they managed to make freakin' Catman and Ragdoll into compelling characters.

All that... GONE.

Yeah, man, fuck the reboot and fuck DC.


#264

AshburnerX

AshburnerX

Yoshimickster said:
....Elvis ripped off his hair cut? ELVIS?! So thanks to Marvel, a beloved pop-culture icon was dashed for ripping of a name that he had years before them. I. Fucking. Hate. CORPORATIONS!
Click to expand...
Well it was actually Captain Marvel Jr., but the point still stands.

Really, you only need to look at the two side-by-side to see the resemblance.


#265

@Li3n

@Li3n

AshburnerX said:
Kids HAVE loved that. Captain Marvel used to sell more issues than Superman. In the Golden Age. Elvis Presley stole his hair and wore it like that for years. By all rights and privileges Captain Marvel should still be as well known as Superman, but Marvel basically put the kibosh on that and prevented DC from properly using the character for decades.
Click to expand...
I don't know, DC kinda fucked things up on their end too, i mean Bats stars in Detective Comics and Supes in Action Comics, why they didn't just make an X Comics for Captain Marvel always puzzled me, would have avoided the I Am Not Shazam thing easily that way.

Then again DC at the time was still obsessed with Superman having to be #1 at everything, and it always felt like they didn't really want Captain Marvel to regain the success it had in the Golden Age.[DOUBLEPOST=1350127150][/DOUBLEPOST]
AshburnerX said:
Marvel has the entirety of the Disney legal team behind them. DC only has the Warner Bros.
Click to expand...
That actually doesn't really matter, what matters is that Marvel keeps using the Cpt. Marvel on a book every time the trademark is getting close to expiring, which is why atm there's no Ms. Marvel running around, but Carol has her own book.


#266

Norris

Norris

Yoshimickster said:
....seriously? Captain Marvel has been called Captain Marvel for over 60 years and NOW Marvel is pulling the plug.
Click to expand...
No, that plug was pulled forty-five years ago, when Captain Mar-Vell debuted. There's been at least a one-shot or mini starring one of their Captains Marvel every few years ever since. When DC did revive the original character, it was in a comic entitled "Shazam!". When the character got a TV show in the seventies, it was "Shazam!". DC holds the copyright to their version of the character, they can still call him Captain Marvel, there's nothing new here on Marvel's part. DC is simply tired of having a character whose name they can't use to promote him.

Keep in mind, Captain Marvel had been out of publication for fifteen years when Marvel introduced their version. It's not like they did anything underhanded to get the trademark.

Yoshimickster said:
And I just looked at what Captain Marvel looks like now...what the fuck? Why does he look like Altair ? Not just the cloak but the stoic face he's giving. I admit to not being that knowledgeable of Captain Marvel but from what I remember he was a nice smiley man. Reboots are fucking weird.
Click to expand...
Well, they're playing up the "troubled orphan" angle a little more with the reboot, but he's still good hearted and relatively smiley in the actual stories (Billy got the power in Justice League #0, so we've only seen an issue's worth of him as Shazam). At least I think, but my copy is in East Lansing at MSU with my sister right now.

@Li3n said:
That actually doesn't really matter, what matters is that Marvel keeps using the Cpt. Marvel on a book every time the trademark is getting close to expiring, which is why atm there's no Ms. Marvel running around, but Carol has her own book.
Click to expand...
That's a change that should have happened years ago, in my opinion. A Skrull imposter got to use the name before she did.


#267

Yoshimickster

Yoshimickster

One thing that has been talked about a billion times is the Batman Catwoman thing. I am okay with them getting together, but did it have to be awful roof-top hate sex? I mean for fucks sake, what is the point of these two being together if they are not in love? Its like in "Titans" when Star Fire and Nightwing did the dance and absolutely nothing happened between them afterwards. Completely pointless.


#268

@Li3n

@Li3n

Norris said:
That's a change that should have happened years ago, in my opinion. A Skrull imposter got to use the name before she did.
Click to expand...
Didn't it already happen once? I always assumed it did at some point (then again Monica and Phylla where created for the name, so i guess maybe not).


But i disagree, Ms. Marvel just has a nice ring to it...


#269

Norris

Norris

@Li3n said:
Didn't it already happen once? I always assumed it did at some point (then again Monica and Phylla where created for the name, so i guess maybe not).
Click to expand...
Only in "House of M".


#270

@Li3n

@Li3n

I knew i remembered something...


#271

Norris

Norris

There will be fifty-two variant covers for Justice League of America #1. Which is the stupidest gorram thing I've heard in a while. On the other hand, both Katanna and Vibe will be getting solo books. Which is both pretty cool (I personally love to see more obscure characters get a chance at a solo series) and kind of stupid. Katanna might have some heat from her recent stint in Birds of Prey and her upcoming appearances in "Beware The Batman!" (she'll be Batman's sidekick there), but Vibe...he's the "joke" of the Justice League Detroit era. I'm skeptical about his revival at all, much less giving him a solo series.


#272

Yoshimickster

Yoshimickster

Norris said:
There will be fifty-two variant covers for Justice League of America #1. Which is the stupidest gorram thing I've heard in a while. On the other hand, both Katanna and Vibe will be getting solo books. Which is both pretty cool (I personally love to see more obscure characters get a chance at a solo series) and kind of stupid. Katanna might have some heat from her recent stint in Birds of Prey and her upcoming appearances in "Beware The Batman!" (she'll be Batman's sidekick there), but Vibe...he's the "joke" of the Justice League Detroit era. I'm skeptical about his revival at all, much less giving him a solo series.
Click to expand...
Pfft- HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Oh lord that is the most desperate ploy for money I've heard from a comics company this hour. And whats even funnier is that you know there's gonna be at least a hundred guys who buy every single variant cover. Oh man, its like the 90s are alive and well.


#273

Bowielee

Bowielee

Wait, CATWOMAN in the JLA? I'm so glad I don't follow DC anymore.


#274

Norris

Norris

quote="Yoshimickster, post: 997600, member: 1430"]Pfft- HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Oh lord that is the most desperate ploy for money I've heard from a comics company this hour. And whats even funnier is that you know there's gonna be at least a hundred guys who buy every single variant cover. Oh man, its like the 90s are alive and well.[/quote]
Well, yes and no. Unlike most variant covers, retailers can just order as much of each cover as they want. I'm honestly thinking the "big money" will be made on the secondary market, as retailers in each state will likely stock their themed cover in higher quantities than any other. And their rationale actually makes a kind of sense - each cover will represent a state, district, or territory of the USA.

Still stupid.

Bowielee said:
Wait, CATWOMAN in the JLA? I'm so glad I don't follow DC anymore.
Click to expand...
Uh...why is that something so terrible? This is the "second string" team, after all and Catwoman hasn't been a "villain" for at least twenty years now.


#275

Yoshimickster

Yoshimickster

Bowielee said:
Wait, CATWOMAN in the JLA? I'm so glad I don't follow DC anymore.
Click to expand...
....where the hell have you been? She's been an anti-hero for like- YEARS!


#276

Bowielee

Bowielee

I know she's an anti-hero. That's exactly why she shouldn't be in the JLA. It would like Marvel putting the Punisher in the Avengers.


#277

Espy

Espy

Catwoman can't even figure out how to zip up her damn shirt, the idea of her having to do anything important is kind of terrifying. She's obviously a mentally challenged.


#278

Norris

Norris

Bowielee said:
I know she's an anti-hero. That's exactly why she shouldn't be in the JLA. It would like Marvel putting the Punisher in the Avengers.
Click to expand...
A goodly chunk of this Justice League consists of anti-heroes:

Katanna: Currently works with the covert-based Bird of Prey. Has diced up foes with her sword so that her husband, whose soul lives within it, can interrogate them.
Catwoman: We all know she's a thief who frequently does the right thing.
Martian Manhunter: Former member of Stormwatch, a team more than willing to kill if they have to. Attacked and mind-wiped all of his teammates when he decided to quit.
Simon "Green Lantern" Baz: Former car thief and current terrorism suspect (he's innocent of the terrorism - he had the bad luck to boost a van with a bomb in it).
Steve Trevor: Ok, he's not really an anti-hero. He's just a gun toting government agent.

Green Arrow and Hawkman (though I haven't been reading the latter's solo book) are the only played straight costumed heroes on the team. Well, Stargirl and Vibe haven't debuted yet and I can't imagine Courtney Whitmore being an anti-hero. Still, the point stands. This is the anti-hero Justice League. If John Constaine is leading a Justice League, I don't think Catwoman is the step too far.


#279

AshburnerX

AshburnerX

John Constantine leading a Justice League is the stupidest thing ever and whoever thought it up should be ashamed of themselves. How are he and Zatanna supposed to have magically drugged fueled sex when they have other guys roaming around their place?


#280

Norris

Norris

AshburnerX said:
John Constantine leading a Justice League is the stupidest thing ever and whoever thought it up should be ashamed of themselves. How are he and Zatanna supposed to have magically drugged fueled sex when they have other guys roaming around their place?
Click to expand...
Justice League Dark is an awesome series and the sex is well in their past at this point. John kind of accidentally got Zatara killed in the DCnU. That puts a slight damper on any relationship.


#281

Bowielee

Bowielee

Yeah, I'm sticking with my original stance. The reboot is balls.


#282

Norris

Norris

Bowielee said:
Yeah, I'm sticking with my original stance. The reboot is balls.
Click to expand...
I'm thinking your blanket dismissal of 77 distinct ongoings or minis, some of which haven't even come out yet, as "balls" might be coming from a place more of emotion than reason.


#283

Bowielee

Bowielee

I disagree. The fact that they jettisoned some 60 years worth of history in the name of making a darker, grittier DC universe is balls.

One of the main reasons I ever read DC comics over Marvel comics at times was because it embraced its campy, silly, and morally dis-ambiguous history and treated it with respect. For me, DC was about escapism, whereas Marvel was about heroes that I can personally relate to.

Basically, DC has transformed itself into a poor Marvel clone rather than embracing what made them unique.


#284

Covar

Covar

20 years worth of History. COIE dumped everything that came before it as well.


#285

Bowielee

Bowielee

No, it didn't. Crisis, Zero Hour, etc didn't completely jettison the histories, it just used the events to merge convergent histories together. It was no where near the complete flushing away that occurred with the reboot.


#286

Yoshimickster

Yoshimickster

So are we to assume that 20 years from now, they'll reboot again? If so, I still don't think they can make Superman look cooler. Of course...looking cool has nothing to do with how good a comic is but I am not sure DC knows that.

Bowielee said:
No, it didn't. Crisis, Zero Hour, etc didn't completely jettison the histories, it just used the events to merge convergent histories together. It was no where near the complete flushing away that occurred with the reboot.
Click to expand...
Eeeeeeeeeh, I think I have to disagree there. Crisis had lots of characters from the other universes needlessly killed just to declutter the DC comics continuity. Sure they justified it by saying that all the alternate characters merged into one character, but in the end they were really just the versions of the characters that people liked the best.


#287

Norris

Norris


Well that's disappointingly plain. Fifty two variant covers...really just one cover Photoshopped a lot.


#288

Yoshimickster

Yoshimickster

...that is the opposite of looking cool. That...that is quite lame.


#289

Bowielee

Bowielee

Ick, Green Lantern's costume looks like ass.


#290

Yoshimickster

Yoshimickster

Bowielee said:
Ick, Green Lantern's costume looks like ass.
Click to expand...
He looks a lazily designed luchadore. And when DC screws up a Green Lantern luchadore , quite possibly one of the coolest sounding things I can think of right now- THEY SCREW UP!


#291

Bowielee

Bowielee

I swear they just went to DCU online and just found people with copycat characters and used those costumes.


#292

twitchmoss

twitchmoss

Norris said:
​
Well that's disappointingly plain. Fifty two variant covers...really just one cover Photoshopped a lot.
Click to expand...
So its pretty much the exact same thing as one of the big two did a while ago, where you could buy a particular issue of something (I forget what) with the name of your LCS on the front. not really too surprised there. anyone remember that?


#293

evilmike

evilmike

IDW had a fairly successful LCS-themed version of this with their Godzilla #1. (all covers here)
and so on...


#294

Bowielee

Bowielee

Wait, is that Green Arrow supposed to be Ollie, or Speedy?


#295

Norris

Norris

Bowielee said:
Wait, is that Green Arrow supposed to be Ollie, or Speedy?
Click to expand...
That's Oliver. They've aged him down quite a bit. He's like the age of his pre-reboot son now. Incidentally, February will see him lose his fortune and company. Perhaps a return to the character's strengths is on the way.

Also, this:

• No, that’s not a typo. Vibe stars in his own ongoing monthly title, starting with this debut issue cowritten by GEOFF JOHNS!
• One of the most unlikely members of the Justice League of America ever (okay, THE most unlikely) will soon discover he’s one of the most powerful individuals on Earth. But how did Vibe get his abilities? What is the cost to them? And why does the JLA want him on the team so desperately?
• Plus: We’ve seen the Red Room and the Black Room, but what is...the Circus?
Click to expand...
Well....I'm going to read it. Since they're not giving Cyborg an ongoing (for some reason, making him the only one of the new big seven without one), I'll take whatever Detroiter headlining a comic I can get. I just about messed my pants when the new Jay Garrick turned out to be from Lansing (meaning he may even be an MSU grad).


#296

AshburnerX

AshburnerX

Hey, at least you GET heroes from your home town. The only Ohioian in DC comics is Black Alice and she's basically a villain. If I want a native hero team, I have to go to the web comic Spinnerette.


#297

Norris

Norris

AshburnerX said:
Hey, at least you GET heroes from your home town. The only Ohioian in DC comics is Black Alice and she's basically a villain. If I want a native hero team, I have to go to the web comic Spinnerette.
Click to expand...
My literal home town, Livonia (a Detroit suburb), was the place the entity of Hope roosted after Blackest Night. The artwork was amusingly divorced for reality (imagine suburban sprawl, just miles of subdivisions with businesses along the major roads...that's us - we're literally in zoning textbooks) but it was a cool shout out nonetheless.


#298

Yoshimickster

Yoshimickster

At least you guys HAVE real super heroes representing your states. When was the last non-comedy New Jersey based super hero? Not that many.

Edit: Feel free to correct me, I would be so okay with being wrong on this.


#299

Norris

Norris

Yoshimickster said:
At least you guys HAVE real super heroes representing your states. When was the last non-comedy New Jersey based super hero? Not that many.

Edit: Feel free to correct me, I would be so okay with being wrong on this.
Click to expand...
The (technically non-canon) Atlas of the DC Universe from 1990 said that Gotham City is located in New Jersey. So depending on the writer, you have the entire Bat-Family.


#300

Yoshimickster

Yoshimickster

Norris said:
The (technically non-canon) Atlas of the DC Universe from 1990 said that Gotham City is located in New Jersey. So depending on the writer, you have the entire Bat-Family.
Click to expand...
I'LL TAKE IT! Sure that means we also have the Joker, but WHO CARES! BATMAN!


#301

Bowielee

Bowielee

Who do we have from the upper peninsula of Michigan? No one, that's who.

Though, we're mistaken for Canadians so often, I'm claiming Alpha Flight and Wolverine.


#302

filmfanatic

filmfanatic

By the way, John Constantine is getting his own solo title in the New 52. Just thought folks might like to know that.


#303

Yoshimickster

Yoshimickster

Bowielee said:
Who do we have from the upper peninsula of Michigan? No one, that's who.

Though, we're mistaken for Canadians so often, I'm claiming Alpha Flight and Wolverine.
Click to expand...


#304

Norris

Norris

Bowielee said:
Who do we have from the upper peninsula of Michigan? No one, that's who.

Though, we're mistaken for Canadians so often, I'm claiming Alpha Flight and Wolverine.
Click to expand...
True, but what's up there that's worth protecting? Michigan Tech and Oswald's Bear Ranch?


#305

Covar

Covar

Bowielee said:
Who do we have from the upper peninsula of Michigan? No one, that's who.

Though, we're mistaken for Canadians so often, I'm claiming Alpha Flight and Wolverine.
Click to expand...
I don't know about the upper peninsula, but Guy Gardner is from Michigan.


#306

Norris

Norris

Covar said:
I don't know about the upper peninsula, but Guy Gardner is from Michigan.
Click to expand...
Actually, he's from Baltimore but went to school at the University of Michigan. Cyborg (in the DCnU) is from Detroit, Vibe is from Detroit, Gypsy might be from Michigan (her origin has her be a suburbanite who ran away from home on a one-way to Detroit...she could be a Grand Rapidian, an Ohioan, or from anywhere), and DCnU Jay "The Flash" Garrick is from Lansing. Marvel briefly had Peter David's X-Factor team based out of the D as well, though they were all non-natives.

I'm actually rather happy that they made Cyborg the Detroit super hero in the DCnU, though it seems a little on the nose (a black dude whose super power is based in engineering is from a predominantly African American city known for the auto industry). The Yoopers never get any super heroes because there's nothing really up there. Although they are the home to Aperture Labs from the Portal games, so they have Chell.


#307

jwhouk

jwhouk

...I was not aware that Apeture Labs was based out of the UP. It explains sooo much.


#308

Yoshimickster

Yoshimickster

So is Beast Boy at least still funny? I may have asked this before, but I can take him being Red as long as he is still silly. And then he evolves into Changeling and gets all cool and stuff. Such is the natural progression of things.


#309

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

These days, my favourite rendition of the DCU is Young Justice. Apparently, I'm not alone in this feeling.

Which is probably why DC is seemingly trying to do away with the show.


#310

AshburnerX

AshburnerX

DC's not doing it, Warner Brothers (or possibly just Cartoon Network) are the ones trying to pimp the dragon show over the DC block... which is strange because the DC block is going to be getting even larger in the future, now that Teen Titans GO! is turning into a full fledged show. Unless they are planning to drop ether Green Lantern (which currently hinges on a second season, even if it was kinda meh) or Young Justice (the only successful Saturday morning show CN has right now).

Cartoon Network makes a lot of strange decisions with it's line up, especially with regards to it's critically acclaimed shows. It really only feels like Adventure Time and Regular Show are immune to this.


#311

Norris

Norris

ThatNickGuy said:
These days, my favourite rendition of the DCU is Young Justice. Apparently, I'm not alone in this feeling.

Which is probably why DC is seemingly trying to do away with the show.
Click to expand...
YJ has had a nearly unprecedented* level of access to characters - Wonder Woman, Wonder Girl, Captain Marvel, Black Adam, Icon, Rocket, etc. - that had previously been somewhat inaccessible. The blame for Young Justice's delays rest squarely on the shoulders of Cartoon Network.


#312

Frank

Frank

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=44405

So, DC has lost more talent. Now the writer of Green Lantern Corps and Red Lanterns has fucked off because they mandated the death of John Stewart. Apparently Dwayne McDuffie (RIP you magnificent bastard) was dead on.



#313

DarkAudit

DarkAudit

Green Lantern of Earth Ambush Bug? :D


#314

Covar

Covar

Baz isn't black...


#315

Frank

Frank

Yeah, he's arab, my mistake.


#316

Kovac

Kovac

Don't all DC comic book characters need to die at some point?

Is it really something to quit over when i'm sure that he will be resurrected in the near future.


#317

Covar

Covar

Kovac said:
Don't all DC comic book characters need to die at some point?

Is it really something to quit over when i'm sure that he will be resurrected in the near future.
Click to expand...
and maybe he be brought back with personality.


#318

Frank

Frank

I hear that's a common complaint. Isn't that bad writing more than anything? Any comic character can be made interesting.


#319

Covar

Covar

Tangentially related, any comic character can be made interesting, but good comic characters are ones written interestingly in the hands of multiple people (which has been a big problem lately).

In the case of John Stewart it's pretty tricky. The character was created as "Angry Black Man who teaches white guys about racism" and didn't have a whole lot else going for him. In truth about as interesting as Silver Age Hal Jordan. Once they removed that aspect of the character he became ... bland. and not in the way that every character was. Everything that was written to define his character served to make him the mild, level headed, precise character that the other Lanterns (and let's be honest, the starring Lanterns) got to play off of. Have you ever gamed with a power gamer who is terrified of doing anything that might be even remotely interesting non-optimal? John Stewart is kind of like that. Mind you this is not a lack of character development, that is his development. There's a reason he was a completely different character on Justice League and JLU. A character they keep trying to turn comic John Stewart into, which doesn't stick do to its forced nature. When DC swapped Kyle for John on JLA they tried this as an instant change. The result is Stewart lecturing the "rookie" Flash (Well established at this point that he had been fighting crime and saving the world at age 10. John got his ring already into his adulthood) on Justice League Regulations. Recently they've been retconning in a career in the Marines prior to becoming an architect and GL. This done by making him a reservist while in college, allowing him to all of a sudden remember that he was a Marine 1 weekend a month, 2 weeks a year and can thus act like a jarhead stereotype, and slowly expanding that to "elite military sniper." Recently in the books they've turned him into a killer of planets, BECAUSE HE DOES WHAT IT TAKES KYLE!

Bottom line John Stewart is a supporting character that doesn't work when attempts are made to turn him into the starring role.



#320

Frank

Frank

Justice League and Justice League Unlimited managed it.


#321

Covar

Covar

Frank said:
Justice League and Justice League Unlimited managed it.
Click to expand...
In Justice League and Justice League Unlimited the Green Lantern is an interesting character with a (rather dull and boring) power ring who happens to be named John Stewart.


#322

Gryfter

Gryfter

Kovac said:
Don't all DC comic book characters need to die at some point?

Is it really something to quit over when i'm sure that he will be resurrected in the near future.
Click to expand...
I think the issue here isn't the writer coming up with a story that involves the death of a hero but rather that the writer is being told by editorial that they have to kill a hero. One is a creative evolution that may or may not lead to a good story and the other is a directive designed 100% to gain a short term boost in sales.

I say good for him for not caving to Didio and CO and recognizing that hero death is truly passe in comics.


#323

Bowielee

Bowielee

Kovac said:
Don't all DC comic book characters need to die at some point?
Click to expand...
FTFY

Jean Grey is still the patron saint of dying and being resurrected. The only character that's died more in main continuity is Mr. Immortal.


#324

Yoshimickster

Yoshimickster

"I ain't wearing any mask, this black man lets it all hang out!" He lets his...face hang out? I have never heard the term "hang out" to be used for anything but testicles, because they actually hang from someone. But faces don't really hang, they stick to things. Glad his lingo changed over time.


#325

CynicismKills

CynicismKills

Bowielee said:
I know she's an anti-hero. That's exactly why she shouldn't be in the JLA. It would like Marvel putting the Punisher in the Avengers.
Click to expand...
I know this is a really old post, but wasn't Punisher made into some Dark Avenger at some point? Leading an X-Factor style team of Avengers for wetwork ops or something.


#326

Gryfter

Gryfter

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/06...s-talks-about-leaving-dc-and-marvel-for-boom/

Really interesting read about the current state of the two big Comic companies from an insider. DC really needs to nuke their current editorial staff from the top down and start from scratch.


#327

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Jesus. I knew DC & Marvel were kind of a mess these days, but not to that point.


#328

figmentPez

figmentPez

I feel this site is relevant:
http://www.hasdcdonesomethingstupidtoday.com/


#329

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

http://nickpiers.wordpress.com/2013/06/06/long-term-thinking-for-comic-books/

I ranted here about comic book's short-term thinking and how, honestly, long-term thinking might be the better way to go for them. Not sure how well it all comes together, as this was mostly free-written.


#330

Gryfter

Gryfter

Good write-up Nick. I like your thinking.


#331

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Gryfter said:
Good write-up Nick. I like your thinking.
Click to expand...

Thanks. Though someone commented with a good point: doing something like this might push away those old, long-term readers. I don't know if I entirely agree, but I can see their point. Maybe a better balance between the continuity-laden stories and the self-contained stories would work.


#332

jwhouk

jwhouk

See, replace the words "Marvel" and "DC" with "Star Trek" and "Star Wars" (and the subsequent characters and titles) and you've got my problem with the reboot under Abrams - and the dread that fills me for Episode VII.


#333

Yoshimickster

Yoshimickster

So, there are ONLY 52 Earths in the DC multiverse now right? Is there like, a magic spell stopping more universes from existing because the whole point of multiverse theory is that there are infinite realities each of which branching out and making new realities. Or do alternate time-lines not count as alternate universes?

Also in your article I see you mention the Earth-1 books, are those good? I heard good stuff.


#334

Covar

Covar

Yoshimickster said:
Also in your article I see you mention the Earth-1 books, are those good? I heard good stuff.
Click to expand...
They are terrible.


#335

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

I don't think DC has come out and said for sure that there are only 52 Earths in this new continuity. They tried that with the reboot and it didn't work very well at all. It's better not to think about it too much.

As far as the Earth 1 books, I've only read the first Superman one. And didn't like it very much. The villain was incredibly cliche whose only purpose was to give Superman something to hit at the end. I've heard some good things about the second book, though. And the Batman one is supposed to be good, but I can't look past artist Gary Frank's work. Whenever someone's mouth is open, all of his characters look like they're ancestors of squirrels or something.


#336

Covar

Covar

ThatNickGuy said:
I don't think DC has come out and said for sure that there are only 52 Earths in this new continuity. They tried that with the reboot and it didn't work very well at all. It's better not to think about it too much.

As far as the Earth 1 books, I've only read the first Superman one. And didn't like it very much. The villain was incredibly cliche whose only purpose was to give Superman something to hit at the end. I've heard some good things about the second book, though. And the Batman one is supposed to be good, but I can't look past artist Gary Frank's work. Whenever someone's mouth is open, all of his characters look like they're ancestors of squirrels or something.
Click to expand...
In the second book Superman encourages murder, and Batman Earth One suffers from the movie problem of Batman is against killing, unless someone does it for him.


#337

Yoshimickster

Yoshimickster

Okay those sound like books to stay away from, thanks guys.

One comforting thought about the multiverse is if it DOES adhere to true multiverse physics, than logically there has to be an alternate universe where the New 52 never happened! Where Aquaman still rocks that awesome beard and water hand, where Beast Boy isn't some angry rejected X-men character, and where Raven wears her classic cloak rather than that new costume that I can't look at without laughing(though I am glad her personality seems the same).


#338

Frank

Frank





#339

Covar

Covar

You know if you were to update Lobo, that's pretty much exactly how he should look.


#340

Espy

Espy

Wait, thats LOBO????




I honestly don't hate the design but it just doesn't look anything like Lobo. Why not make a new character and keep the basic idea of Lobo the same?


#341

Covar

Covar

Well Lobo's basic idea was a parody of the 90s hyperviolent comics, so if you were to update him to modern comics I really can't think of what other than that image would suit him.

The vast chunk of Lobo fans are just like majority of Squirrel-girl fans. They don't seem to be in on the joke.


#342

Frank

Frank

Covar said:
Well Lobo's basic idea was a parody of the 90s hyperviolent comics, so if you were to update him to modern comics I really can't think of what other than that image would suit him.
Click to expand...
I've never read a Lobo comic or have had any exposure to him beyond him being voiced by Brad Garret in Superman and Justice League but yeah, if that's the case, I guess so.


#343

Yoshimickster

Yoshimickster

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/08...ium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+ign/all+(IGN+All)

So apparently the new Lobo design is for a one shot where this character is supposedly the REAL Lobo and the Lobo that was introduced in Deathstroke #9 was the fake Lobo even though he looks like the original...okay I'll admit that sounds potentially hilarious.


#344

Gryfter

Gryfter

I really need to stop thinking that the idiots at DC can't make anything worse. That Lobo redesign is atrocious.


#345

Yoshimickster

Yoshimickster

If the one-shot ends with that Lobo being killed at the end as I predict it, I'll be cool with it. However this is DC and to expect a good idea like that from them nowadays...yeah nnnnnnnnnot so muuuuuuuch.


#346

Zappit

Zappit

I'm beginning to think that DC's editorial process is guided entirely by a tattered Mad Libs book they pulled out of a public library's restroom.


#347

figmentPez

figmentPez

Lobo is supposed to be a bad-ass space biker who rides a hog and gets into bar fights, right? This guy looks like he'd ride the space equivalent of one of those Japanese motocylcles that puts your ass over your head, and use it to get to various... swim... meets. Is this guy suppoed to tap into the Free! fanbase or something?
X


#348

Zappit

Zappit

figmentPez said:
Lobo is supposed to be a bad-ass space biker who rides a hog and gets into bar fights, right? This guy looks like he'd ride the space equivalent of one of those Japanese motocylcles that puts your ass over your head, and use it to get to various... swim... meets. Is this guy suppoed to tap into the Free! fanbase or something?
X
Click to expand...
No. DC comics doesn't believe in women.


#349

Bowielee

Bowielee

The New 52 continues to be a horrible, horrible mistake.

I do have to admit that I've been reading back issues of Animal Man and Swamp Thing and they are brilliant, but that has nothing to do with the relaunch. Everything in those books would have worked just fine in the normal continuity.


#350

Frank

Frank

New Lobo looks like some Dark Eldar unit.


#351

Yoshimickster

Yoshimickster

Has anyone read those new Dial H for Hero comics? They look interestingly horrifying.


#352

figmentPez

figmentPez

I'm surprised, but I almost agree with Kurtz on this one:
"I’m on board with Affleck as Batman only IF by Batman you mean Terry McGinnis. Eastwood as Bruce Wayne. Batman Beyond movie is past due."

Affleck is too old to play Terry, but I still like the idea of a Batman Beyond movie.


#353

Bowielee

Bowielee

Yoshimickster said:
Has anyone read those new Dial H for Hero comics? They look interestingly horrifying.
Click to expand...
No, but the Animal Man and Swamp Thing books are "interestingly horrifying". They intertwine quite a bit and I love the idea of the balance between the three life forces of the planet, The Red, The Green, and The Rot.


#354

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Yoshimickster said:
Has anyone read those new Dial H for Hero comics? They look interestingly horrifying.
Click to expand...
I picked up the first trade while back. Read...most of it. I don't know. It wasn't bad, but it just didn't keep me engaged enough to finish it. The writing is honestly kinda sloppy at points, likely because it's China Mieville's first foray into writing comics. The transition from prose to comic script can't be easy.


#355

Bowielee

Bowielee

Really, I have to give Kudos for the team on Animal Man, they have managed to pretty perfectly merge the Vertigo and Mainstream Animal Man into a cohesive character and didn't chuck any of the continuity, per se (the entire Grant Morrison run is a dream in the new continuity).

Speaking of which, what events actually happened in the new continuity? Crisis on Infinite Earths, Zero Hour, Infinite Crisis, Countdown and Final Crisis. Did those happen or not?


#356

AshburnerX

AshburnerX

figmentPez said:
I'm surprised, but I almost agree with Kurtz on this one:
"I’m on board with Affleck as Batman only IF by Batman you mean Terry McGinnis. Eastwood as Bruce Wayne. Batman Beyond movie is past due."

Affleck is too old to play Terry, but I still like the idea of a Batman Beyond movie.
Click to expand...
Batman Beyond is supposedly back on the table right now and it might be the next Batman solo film. We'll see what happens with it.


#357

Zappit

Zappit

Bowielee said:
Really, I have to give Kudos for the team on Animal Man, they have managed to pretty perfectly merge the Vertigo and Mainstream Animal Man into a cohesive character and didn't chuck any of the continuity, per se (the entire Grant Morrison run is a dream in the new continuity).

Speaking of which, what events actually happened in the new continuity? Crisis on Infinite Earths, Zero Hour, Infinite Crisis, Countdown and Final Crisis. Did those happen or not?
Click to expand...
I don't think any of those events happened in the new continuity, except maybe Green Lantern, since it was the only book to keep going as normal? DC probably has no clue, either, and more than likely doesn't care.

It's a damn shame, really. DC always seems to do themselves in. They have a far more original and fantastic setting than any other comic universe, but they bog it down in multiple Earths until it creates catastrophic continuity disasters resulting in stories impenetrable to even regular readers. They reset to one Earth, then make the same dang mistakes all over. They try to reach out to girls, but take take characters that genuinely appealed to them - like Starfire - and transformed them into dull sex dolls devoid of the personality and character that made them popular to begin with. New 52 was a giant middle finger to longtime readers, as it tossed aside everything that had come before. Currently, the editorial department is shredding scripts, bullying creators, and hacking finished books apart at the last seconds with changes the creators are not even informed of. DC needs to let those folks tell their stories, rather than dilute their product so badly that loyal readers will give up on them. They also need to recognize that women, I dunno...are people? The Batman movies cannot carry them forever. But the orders come down through multiple levels, books are edited by committee, and they get their asses handed to them by Marvel.

Marvel's got their own problems, but at least they seem to let their creators put the books out without fucking them over. Sure, some things have to be kept in line for the sake of the movies - Peter Parker should make his triumphant return by the time the new film debuts - but they've been kicking DC's butts up and down the street in terms of storytelling.


#358

Bowielee

Bowielee

So, I'm through the Rotworld series on Animal Man and Swamp thing. Has anyone read Justice League Dark? That sounds pretty good in theory.


#359

Covar

Covar

Starfire has always been a dull sex doll devoid of personality and character. Starfire has only ever been popular for two reasons, her bikini costume and general aversion to clothing, and the Teen Titans cartoon.


#360

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Bowielee said:
So, I'm through the Rotworld series on Animal Man and Swamp thing. Has anyone read Justice League Dark? That sounds pretty good in theory.
Click to expand...
I haven't been reading it, but hear it starts out well enough but becomes less enjoyable as the team membership changes. I think that's what I heard.


#361

Covar

Covar

For @figmentPez
Bastion of clothing and modesty:




Starfire eating Breakfast:


Starfire learning English:




#362

Bowielee

Bowielee

There's a huge difference between a sexually liberated character and one that is portrayed as a cum dumpster.


#363

figmentPez

figmentPez

Bowielee said:
There's a huge difference between a sexually liberated character and one that is portrayed as a cum dumpster.
Click to expand...
Damn straight. Having different standards of modesty and physical affection than those on Earth is one thing. It's another thing to completely forget about your friends when one of your defining characteristics was your love and caring.

Yes, Starfire was eyecandy, but that does not negate that she had characterization beyond that, especilally in the animates series. And don't try to give me bullshit that the animated series doesn't count, because Harley Quinn says that's laughable. Starfire had a lot of fans, both because of her part in the comics and in the animated series, and the new 52 throws out the major reasons for her devoted fans.


#364

Bowielee

Bowielee

For the record, Countdown to Adventure was one of my favorite countdown titles, and Starfire is one of the reasons I loved it so much. If I loved her as a character for her dressing slutty, I sure as hell need to re-evaluate a few things about my life.[DOUBLEPOST=1377480566,1377480434][/DOUBLEPOST]Another example of a character who is largely portrayed as sexually liberated, but is also a really fleshed out character is She-Hulk. Sure she's banged half the Avengers, but she's also a kick ass woman who is as intelligent as she is busty.


#365

evilmike

evilmike

I thought David Willis had a pretty interesting take on Starfire in Shortpacked just after the New 52 reboot:
20110926math.png


#366

Bowielee

Bowielee

I'd also like to point out that even though they may have toned her sexuality down for Teen Titans, the character from the cartoons is not that far off from the comic book version of Starfire once she sheds her "I'm a Tamaranian warrior princess who will kill you" side.[DOUBLEPOST=1377481163,1377480929][/DOUBLEPOST]On a completely unrelated note, can I just squeel with glee that they've already killed off Damien Wayne. Good F'n riddance.


#367

Frank

Frank

Really? I didn't know his character well (and I say this as someone who's read so little DC) but I did read some of the comics where he was Robin to Dick Grayson's Batman (while Batman was time travelling Batman for some reason) and really liked the dynamic they had.


#368

Yoshimickster

Yoshimickster

Yeah he wasn't the best Robin, but I still put him above Jason Todd. But seriously, did this really need to freakin' happen again? Can we PLEASE stop making Batman more tragic?!


#369

Covar

Covar

FUCK YOU, GRANT MORRISON IS WRITING HIS STORY AND YOU WILL NOT UPSET HIS CREATIVE VISION!!!

Grant Morrison is a great writer who ego is his worst enemy. The Damian Wayne death was completely out of left field, had piss poor timing, and it's clear from the publishing of the Damian Wayne mini, and the fact that Retailers weren't made aware of this happening until the Monday before the books release (when the news was made public) That most of DC had no idea it was happening. Right after Death of the Family, which managed to tell a great story without a shocking death, only to have one happen a week later in a book that's been perpetually late by a writer that refuses to acknowledge the work of anyone else at the company.

I liked Damian, but always found it amusing that he had the most personality and complexity when someone other than Grant Morrison (like Peter J. Tomasi and Brian Q. Miller).


#370

tegid

tegid

I didn't like the concept of Damian or, rather, how the character started, but it grew to be a very good character. Also, one that wasn't ruined by the new 52. His death I did not like. It was anticlimatic and poorly handled.


#371

Covar

Covar

I think the first couple arcs in Batman & Robin in the new 52 did a lot for defining the character and his relationship with Bruce that he didn't really get the chance to have before (although him being Dick Grayson's Robin was a brilliant decision, see Grant Morrison is a brilliant writer sometimes). The best use of Damian has got to be the times he appeared in Batgirl and got to interact with Stephanie Brown.


#372

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

DC needs to go full retro with the Lobo costume.



#373

AshburnerX

AshburnerX

I'm just glad that Damian is dead because it makes things less murky in the Batman Beyond timeline. According to that, Tim Drake is still Robin when the Joker dies and Damian Wayne NEVER showed up in any capacity (meaning he was ether dead or no canon with the series). Damian being dead means that Batman Beyond can still fit into the timeline.


#374

tegid

tegid

Meh... You still need that:
- Tim Drake goes back to being Robin.
- They don't introduce a new Robin.


#375

AshburnerX

AshburnerX

tegid said:
Meh... You still need that:
- Tim Drake goes back to being Robin.
- They don't introduce a new Robin.
Click to expand...
Depends on how well Red Robin takes as a character. The "sidekick upgrades always stick" rule was broken when they made Oracle into Batgirl again, so it's definitely possible.

Really, I'm just kinda sick of their stance on it. They clearly want to integrate the series into the main universe because they included shit like Batman Inc. in the canon of Batman Beyond. On the other hand, it seems like they just can't commit to it because they don't want to make an official "death" for one of their most important characters.


#376

Bowielee

Bowielee

The Tim Drake of Batman Beyond continuity is nothing like the comic counterpart.


#377

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

It also doesn't help that they're trying to mix the animated universe mythos with the comic book mythos, which are two very different things.


#378

Bowielee

Bowielee

Especially when the origin of Tim Drake in the DCAU was actually Jason Todd's origin.


#379

AshburnerX

AshburnerX

ThatNickGuy said:
It also doesn't help that they're trying to mix the animated universe mythos with the comic book mythos, which are two very different things.
Click to expand...
Except they've been doing it for years. Harley Quinn joined canon a long time ago and is a break-out character. Mr. Freeze's back story has been using the DCAU version since it was first introduced because it was simply better than his original one. Renee Montoya started as an inconsequential side character in the DCAU and was (for a time) a big name hero in her own right, both as herself and as The Question.

I will admit that integrating an entire show (even severed from the rest of the DCAU) is daunting. But it honestly doesn't have much effect on the scheme of things, except explicitly saying that the Joker will die.


#380

Bowielee

Bowielee

And completely destroying Tim Drake as a character.


#381

AshburnerX

AshburnerX

Bowielee said:
And completely destroying Tim Drake as a character.
Click to expand...
I actually like Tim Drake in Batman Beyond though. He's in his 50's and has basically done everything he can to pull himself away from a life that almost got him killed (or worse). In doing so, he has found the kind of life that Bruce never could: happily married, doing a job he enjoys. Quite literally, out of everyone in the Bat Family, the only ones with any kind of happiness in their life are Tim and possibly Barbara and that is because they got out of it. It's the positive message that heroes CAN stop if it becomes too much... that they aren't their hero identities.


#382

Bowielee

Bowielee

That's why it's ridiculous to try to make the BB future the actual canon DC future. Tim Drake never has been and never will be the character in the DCAU. He's already differentiated himself tenfold from other Robins. He proved himself by actually using detective work to figure out who Batman was and tracking down the Batcave. The DCAU Tim Drake is simply an amalgamation of Jason Todd and young Dick Greyson.


#383

tegid

tegid

Don't you know? They changed his origin already :/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Drake#The_New_52_.282011.E2.80.93present.29

It's one of the worst things to come of the new 52. Previously, each Robin was markedly different. The acrobat, the detective, etc. Now Tim Drake is a super gymnast hacker genius detective.


#384

Bowielee

Bowielee

Man, fuck the New 52 right up it's stupid ass.


#385

Bowielee

Bowielee

Really, Tim Drake has always been my favorite Robin. He had to fight to become Robin in the first place, because Batman refused to take on another sidekick due to the "death" of Jason Todd. Also, we got to really get to know him and his relationship with his dad prior to Identity Crisis, so for the first time you actually understood the tragedy directly that Dick and Bruce went through when their parents died.


#386

Covar

Covar

As a fan of the Legion of Super-Heroes I find this whole frustration over wanting Batman Beyond to be the definitive future of DC amusing. As a Batman fan who reads multiple books and likes the Bat-family I find it insulting.


#387

Espy

Espy

Regarding the Tim Drake thing: A Lonely Place of Dying is still one of my favorite Batman arcs. Tim Drake was awesome.


#388

Bowielee

Bowielee

I do have to admit that I haven't really read any of the Bat Family books since Battle for the Cowl.


#389

Espy

Espy

Not sure if you are responding to my last post Bowie, but A Lonely Place of Dying was Tim's origin story back in the early nineties. Totally worth picking up if you are into Tim Drake. Plus Jim Aparo!


#390

Covar

Covar

Bowielee said:
I do have to admit that I haven't really read any of the Bat Family books since Battle for the Cowl.
Click to expand...
N52 Nightwing is surprisingly good. The whole traveling with Haley Circus around the country solving crimes bad tv premise that they were suggesting was the book, was really just an arc. Not so much solving crimes as solving a particular crime. That involved the circus. The books been generally solid, and Kyle Higgins has a good handle on writing Dick.[DOUBLEPOST=1377610685,1377610411][/DOUBLEPOST]
Espy said:
Not sure if you are responding to my last post Bowie, but A Lonely Place of Dying was Tim's origin story back in the early nineties. Totally worth picking up if you are into Tim Drake. Plus Jim Aparo!
Click to expand...
You're getting a bonus like for Jim Aparo.

A Lonely Place of Dying tends to get bundled in trades with Death in the Family, and I believe that is the case with the current Death in the Family trade in print.


#391

Bowielee

Bowielee

Espy said:
Not sure if you are responding to my last post Bowie, but A Lonely Place of Dying was Tim's origin story back in the early nineties. Totally worth picking up if you are into Tim Drake. Plus Jim Aparo!
Click to expand...
I was responding to Covar's post. I read the Batman related books pretty heavily in that era.


#392

Espy

Espy

Gotcha.[DOUBLEPOST=1377619872,1377619780][/DOUBLEPOST]
Covar said:
N52 Nightwing is surprisingly good. The whole traveling with Haley Circus around the country solving crimes bad tv premise that they were suggesting was the book, was really just an arc. Not so much solving crimes as solving a particular crime. That involved the circus. The books been generally solid, and Kyle Higgins has a good handle on writing Dick.[DOUBLEPOST=1377610685,1377610411][/DOUBLEPOST]
You're getting a bonus like for Jim Aparo.

A Lonely Place of Dying tends to get bundled in trades with Death in the Family, and I believe that is the case with the current Death in the Family trade in print.
Click to expand...
Oh, I only have them as separate trades. You know, the funny thing about Jim Aparo, his art... it's not my favorite style, his men all kind of look the same and everyone looks rigid but... for some reason... I'm just drawn to anything he does. Even when those little details bug me he just... I dunno, he just DOES comic book art. And it's perfect.


#393

Gryfter

Gryfter

DC editorial is at it again and losing more great creative people because of it.

http://io9.com/dc-wont-allow-batwomans-gay-marriage-to-be-depicted-1257106266


#394

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

It's apparently more about the character getting married than about her being gay and married. Of course, that doesn't help at all and certainly makes for a PR nightmare for DC.

This editorial regime in both companies has gotten worse over the years, even before the new 52. Before, editors were quality control, making sure that Superman doesn't purposely blow up an orphanage or something. Now, they're telling the writers what to write, even when a crossover isn't involved. Creative freedom for creative teams in the two big companies is a thing of the past.


#395

Covar

Covar

Considering Batwoman's just a publicity stunt I'm honestly surprised that they didn't want her to have a wedding.


#396

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Covar said:
Considering Batwoman's just a publicity stunt I'm honestly surprised that they didn't want her to have a wedding.
Click to expand...
Ehhhh, she might have started as a publicity stunt (due to how DC's PR department promoted her), but when the character was actually introduced, she was a really great, well-rounded character. You can thank Greg Rucka for that, who has a history of writing really great, fleshed out women characters.


#397

Covar

Covar

She was nothing but terrible in 52, and I'd bother to read her book if she was actually a part of the Bat Family.


#398

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Covar said:
She was nothing but terrible in 52, and I'd actually care to read her book if she was actually a part of the Bat Family.
Click to expand...
Wow, then you're really missing out. Her solo book is fantastic. And honestly, she has really, really loose ties with the Bat Family. She's not a part of crossovers and her solo book rarely has any appearances with the rest of the Bat Family.

....which might be part of why editorial is trying to force off the current creative team.


#399

figmentPez

figmentPez

So, DC is holding a contest Break Into Comics With Harley Quinn. One of the images required to be drawn for entry is:

PANEL 4
Harley sitting naked in a bathtub with toasters, blow dryers, blenders, appliances all dangling above the bathtub and she has a cord that will release them all. We are watching the moment before the inevitable death. Her expression is one of “oh well, guess that’s it for me” and she has resigned herself to the moment that is going to happen.
Click to expand...
Harley Quinn, nude and about to commit suicide.

I don't have any words for how messed up this is.


#400

Bowielee

Bowielee

What the hell DC... what... the... hell...

I'm glad my interest in DC comics is only marginal at best. Even more so since the New 52.[DOUBLEPOST=1378522078,1378521897][/DOUBLEPOST]
Covar said:
She was nothing but terrible in 52, and I'd bother to read her book if she was actually a part of the Bat Family.
Click to expand...
Are you sure you don't mean Countdown? Her comic in 52 was one of my favorite parts of 52.


#401

Gryfter

Gryfter



#402

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

Fuck DC.


#403

Bowielee

Bowielee

Speaking of DC wankery, this month is "Villains Month"with a ton of variant cover comics with 3D motion covers.

It's like the 90s all over again. Why is DC trying to revive the worst age in comic book history?


#404

Frank

Frank

Bowielee said:
Speaking of DC wankery, this month is "Villains Month"with a ton of variant cover comics with 3D motion covers.

It's like the 90s all over again. Why is DC trying to revive the worst age in comic book history?
Click to expand...
I didn't know the Creeper was a villain.


#405

AshburnerX

AshburnerX

Frank said:
I didn't know the Creeper was a villain.
Click to expand...
I think he's a villain in the same way that Deadpool is a hero.


#406

Espy

Espy

Holy crap. What the hell DC.


#407

Zappit

Zappit

Espy said:
Holy crap. What the hell DC.
Click to expand...
You mean this contest?
http://jezebel.com/dc-comics-contest-draw-a-naked-woman-committing-suicid-1265537616

Getting convinced that the editorial department at DC is comprised entirely of alcohol-damaged former frat boys with fedoras stapled to their skulls.


#408

Bowielee

Bowielee

Because it was jogged in my memory in another thread, I just want to pimp out Animal Man and Swamp Thing again. Those books are astoundingly good and would have worked in the original continuity or the rebooted continuity just as well.

The Rotworld crossover was simply great.

Read them....


Read them NOW.

Disclaimer: I've only read through the last 2 issues after rotworld, so I don't know how the last few issues have been.


#409

BananaHands

BananaHands

I'm so mad after what they did to Lobo.


#410

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

First, Batwoman's amazing creative team is leaving because DC didn't want the main character to get married. Not because it was a same-sex marriage, but because they want all their heroes to be swinging singles.

Now they have even more controversy:

http://multiversitycomics.com/news/artists-respond-dcs-harley-quinn-contest/

Last week, DC offered up a contest to break into comics by drawing a page for the upcoming “Harley Quinn” #0, which would feature multiple artists auditioning to Harley directly to be her new artist. The scene, whose intention was to be a humorous portrayal of events in Harley’s life, featured Harley contemplating suicide by various different fashions for four different panels, including one in which she was naked in the bath — and naturally, some people didn’t find it so funny.

Bad week to be a female character in the DC universe.


#411

AshburnerX

AshburnerX

I like how none of those comics have her in that stupid juggalo outfit ether.


#412

Gryfter

Gryfter

ThatNickGuy said:
First, Batwoman's amazing creative team is leaving because DC didn't want the main character to get married. Not because it was a same-sex marriage, but because they want all their heroes to be swinging singles.

Now they have even more controversy:

http://multiversitycomics.com/news/artists-respond-dcs-harley-quinn-contest/

Last week, DC offered up a contest to break into comics by drawing a page for the upcoming “Harley Quinn” #0, which would feature multiple artists auditioning to Harley directly to be her new artist. The scene, whose intention was to be a humorous portrayal of events in Harley’s life, featured Harley contemplating suicide by various different fashions for four different panels, including one in which she was naked in the bath — and naturally, some people didn’t find it so funny.

Bad week to be a female character in the DC universe.
Click to expand...
Well good on Palmiotti for owning up to the mistake and apologizing but editorial should've looked it over before this went public. It speaks volumes that no-one there stopped and said , "Uh hey guys... is this panel with her nude and about to commit suicide in a tub really appropriate?"


#413

Espy

Espy

I expected the "apology" to end like this:

"So since you little shits didn't like our awesome idea we are going to start a NEW "52 Weeks" event, where every week we brutally kill off a different female character! Now, check out some tits!"


#414

Covar

Covar

I will say having read the entire page description, the whole thing has been overblown.


#415

Espy

Espy

Seriously? You read that and thought that was no big deal? Dude.


#416

Covar

Covar

I read that and thought it was clearly misrepresented. Bad joke? probably depending on the artist, but not the "DC perverts are sitting in their offices waiting to masturbate to the incoming pages to suicide porn" people wanted to make it out to be based on a single panel absent of dialog (which is key).


#417

Espy

Espy

I don't think anyone thinks they are a bunch of perverts masterbating to this stuff, I think they are part of a culture that revels in misogyny and objectification and are totally unaware of it. If there WAS some "context" that makes this not misogynistic the fact that they wrote up the contest and no one went, "Hey this could be really easily construed as horrible" shows that, at the very least, they are amazingly ignorant.


#418

figmentPez

figmentPez

How have I not heard of these before now?

Canada can be pretty cool, sometimes.


#419

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

There's some kind of upcoming Bat-book crossover called GOTHTOPIA. This is quite possibly the stupidest story title since MAXIMUM CLONAGE.

It sounds more like some underground Goth fetish nightclub.


#420

filmfanatic

filmfanatic

The Superman 75th Anniversary short has been released.

http://insidemovies.ew.com/2013/10/...story-in-a-2-minute-animated-short-exclusive/


#421

Frank

Frank

Lois kinda got the shaft there.


#422

filmfanatic

filmfanatic

Frank said:
Lois kinda got the shaft there.
Click to expand...
Yeah, her and Lex kinda did get the shaft. The only appearance of him was the Golden Age cover with him punched through a brick wall. I wouldn't have minded maybe a reference to him elected President.


#423

Bowielee

Bowielee

filmfanatic said:
The Superman 75th Anniversary short has been released.

http://insidemovies.ew.com/2013/10/...story-in-a-2-minute-animated-short-exclusive/
Click to expand...
Watching that made me realize that I've read way more Superman than I thought I had.


#424

figmentPez

figmentPez

Frank said:
Lois kinda got the shaft there.
Click to expand...
No kidding. I get that DC hates marriage right now, so they didn't include the wedding of Clark Kent and Lois Lane (which was a pretty damn big moment in Superman history), but have they completely forgotten what an amazing character Lois Lane is? She's the one who gave Superman his name, for goodness sake!

A history of Superman shouldn't give more screen time to the Super Pets than it does to Lois Lane. She is not just a figure in an adoring crowd, she is a central part to the life of Clark Kent and Superman.


#425

Covar

Covar

figmentPez said:
No kidding. I get that DC hates marriage right now, so they didn't include the wedding of Clark Kent and Lois Lane (which was a pretty damn big moment in Superman history), but have they completely forgotten what an amazing character Lois Lane is? She's the one who gave Superman his name, for goodness sake!

A history of Superman shouldn't give more screen time to the Super Pets than it does to Lois Lane. She is not just a figure in an adoring crowd, she is a central part to the life of Clark Kent and Superman.
Click to expand...
Zack Snyder was involved, can you really be surprised they left out one of the greatest female characters in comics?


#426

PatrThom

PatrThom

figmentPez said:
A history of Superman shouldn't give more screen time to the Super Pets than it does to Lois Lane. She is not just a figure in an adoring crowd, she is a central part to the life of Clark Kent and Superman.
Click to expand...
I saw it as a showcase of the respective eras rather than the characters, and to that end, I thought it jumped waaaay too quickly from N64 to Doomsday.

--Patrick


#427

Gryfter

Gryfter

Great caustic review of a Dan Didio outing into writing that also provides some great analysis of the kind of stories ushered in by the new 52.

http://toobusythinkingboutcomics.blogspot.com/2013/11/on-dan-didio-j-g-jones-man-bat-out-of.html


#428

Covar

Covar

Holy shit that's overwritten. So much so it's almost as unreadable as the comic it's trying to comment on.

[edit] I take that back, it's completely unreadable. BREVITY IS THE SOUL OF WIT!


#429

Yoshimickster

Yoshimickster

So are the new Earth 2 books as depressing as I've read from the summary? Sure this Batman wasn't dying of Cancer but still.


#430

Bowielee

Bowielee

I recently read Trinity War.

BLECH!


#431

figmentPez

figmentPez


Batgirl and Red Lantern Supergirl Comic by mikemaihack


#432

figmentPez

figmentPez

I just saw a few panels from the comic DC gave out yesterday for free comic book day.

No. No, no, NO. Not enough "no" to know how much "no" I want to no.


#433

twitchmoss

twitchmoss

And since free comic book day is the best time to put out something to draw in new readers, especially younger ones, DC put out something with this in it.



BRAVO DC. GOOD JOB.


#434

Celt Z

Celt Z

Wow. When you thought they couldn't do anything more offensive than "fridging", they come up with "rib-caging". I think DC's standards have sunk so low, you can find them somewhere around The Challenger Deep.


#435

Bowielee

Bowielee

Jesus christ, that's horrible. Way to venerate one of the classic DC heroes.[DOUBLEPOST=1399293447,1399293303][/DOUBLEPOST]Why does DC seem to think that no one cares about any character outside of the Big Three? Say what you will about Marvel, but they do at least care about their second string characters a little bit.


#436

figmentPez

figmentPez

Celt Z said:
Wow. When you thought they couldn't do anything more offensive than "fridging", they come up with "rib-caging".
Click to expand...
They're literally treating their superheroines as nothing but body parts. :puke:

The other panels I've seen from the comic aren't any better. Here's a few others on Linkara's Tumblr. Including hands and arms getting chopped off; as well as Wonder Woman as some grotesque spider-bot getting torn to pieces by the Flash. Keep in mind that bleak, hopeless future, combined with body horror and brutal death is all wrapped up with Batman Beyond on the cover. Oh, and some places even bundled both of DC's offerings together. The other comic? A reprint of the same Teen Titans Go! comic they put out last year. What a wonderful goodie bag for the kids.

It seems to be in service of a pretty standard post-apocalyptic time-travel plot, too. DBZ Abridged is working on the Android/Cell sagas right now, did that trigger someone at DC? Or have they just been rewatching the Terminator series?


#437

Celt Z

Celt Z

This needs an "I'm so disappointed" rating.


#438

filmfanatic

filmfanatic

...I'm guessing that the folks at DC seemed to have forgotten the early '90s, considering they seem to think that grimdark sells well.


#439

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

I'd be disappointed, if I thought DC had standards.


#440

Dei

Dei

Considering that my kids gravitated to Mouse Guard and Spongebob on Free Comic Book Day (well and $70 of MLP comics -_-), I did not even notice this. Our comic shops only allows 3 free comics per person.


#441

CynicismKills

CynicismKills

There's only one LCS in my area, and the line to get inside was an hour long, if not more. I decided to skip out on Free Comic Day as I didn't want to stand out in 100+ degree weather.


#442

AshburnerX

AshburnerX

Oh fuck... they had a Mouse Guard free comic? I am disappoint.


#443

Dei

Dei

AshburnerX said:
Oh fuck... they had a Mouse Guard free comic? I am disappoint.
Click to expand...
Yep, hardcover and everything.

image-4171793082.jpg


#444

figmentPez

figmentPez

So, Superman got infected by Doomsday, and is now turning into Doomsday because Doomsday is like an insect, and all we've seen so far is his larval form?

WUT?

In the New 52 continuity, when did Superman face Doomsday? Did he die? I don't understand.


#445

Yoshimickster

Yoshimickster

Sounds kinda like in All Star, when Superman went all evil and Jimmy Olsen infected himself with Doomsday. Only that was a single issue, and this story will go on longer than it satan-damned should.

Also, who/what the hell is Baka? He looks like a gray Nightcrawler.


#446

Gryfter

Gryfter

figmentPez said:
So, Superman got infected by Doomsday, and is now turning into Doomsday because Doomsday is like an insect, and all we've seen so far is his larval form?

WUT?

In the New 52 continuity, when did Superman face Doomsday? Did he die? I don't understand.
Click to expand...
It's okay... no one really understands the Nu52.... don't feel bad...you are not alone.


#447

Bowielee

Bowielee

Why do I click on this thread. It only makes me sad.


#448

fade

fade

The sad part is that countdown actually made me care. Then they spoiled the momentum.


#449

Bowielee

Bowielee

I really hope they pull a Heroes Reborn and forget all about this "dark and gritty" path.


#450

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

I keep hoping the real DC heroes show up and are all like, "What the hell, guys?!"

Which is ironic, because that's pretty much Infinite Crisis.


#451

evilmike

evilmike

There's an interesting credit on the Special 75th anniversary edition of Detective Comics:


io9 (and others) have reported that this is the first time Bill Finger has received a cover credit for a Batman Story.


#452

Gryfter

Gryfter

evilmike said:
There's an interesting credit on the Special 75th anniversary edition of Detective Comics:


io9 (and others) have reported that this is the first time Bill Finger has received a cover credit for a Batman Story.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but it's only because it reprints one of his stories. Bob Kane effectively blocked Finger from ever getting credit for his part in the creation of Batman (you know...everything about the character except the name).


#453

CynicismKills

CynicismKills

DC knows things are bad, they're even giving comics away.


#454

evilmike

evilmike

Huh.

DC is going in a new direction with Batgirl. They've given her a new costume that has already received a lot of positive reactions from the fans. Comics Alliance is quite impressed with the new creative team as well.



#455

Bowielee

Bowielee

I actually like the redesign.


#456

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

I like the Doc Martens. As I gaze upon my own.


#457

evilmike

evilmike

Bowielee said:
I actually like the redesign.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I think it's a solid design too. The only thing that's odd is that Batgirl looks about 10 years younger than I was expecting.


#458

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

For once I am happy that they lowered the sexiness quotient, since she is underage...


#459

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

I like the redesign. I also like that this frees up Gail Simone. While it doesn't sound like it was a bad split from DC, it sounds like she's not doing any work with them for now. Personally, I hope she breaks out with her own creator owned project at Image or Dark Horse. It's high time she joined Brubaker and Rucka over at Image.


#460

Celt Z

Celt Z

I know the artist is making her look a little younger than 23 (sort of. I've known enough 23 year olds that could still easily pass for teens), but I otherwise love the outfit! It seems far more practical than the average hero costume, but still clever and characteristic. I love the jacket description, too.


#461

Covar

Covar

sixpackshaker said:
For once I am happy that they lowered the sexiness quotient, since she is underage...
Click to expand...
Only in the drawings they've showed yesterday. She's consistently in her low to mid-20s. On the Batman & Robin age range (from which you can guesstimate anyone in the DC universes age) she's younger than Bruce Wayne, older than Dick Grayson (although they've evened out over the years).

If it wasn't for the hair I would keep thinking that's Stephanie Brown in that costume.


#462

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

Oh, I thought since DC was starting over, she would be like 14 again. Like in the DCAU Batman.


#463

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

sixpackshaker said:
Oh, I thought since DC was starting over, she would be like 14 again. Like in the DCAU Batman.
Click to expand...
She's had a title SINCE the reboot, actually.


#464

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

ThatNickGuy said:
She's had a title SINCE the reboot, actually.
Click to expand...
I haven't read comics in years. So they just put her back to an older age than she was when she was crippled, then rebooted?


#465

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

sixpackshaker said:
I haven't read comics in years. So they just put her back to an older age than she was when she was crippled, then rebooted?
Click to expand...
She was a cripple right to the end of the previous universe. I think she was de-aged a little bit (like to Nightwing's age) for the reboot. I don't think she was meant to be THIS young, but I'm not sure. I haven't read the book.


#466

Bowielee

Bowielee

The events of The Killing Joke still occurred in the New 52 universe, but she somehow got better from a bullet shattering her spine.

I believe she was officially Oracle in the new timeline for about a year. In the first issue after the reboot, it's her first time back out in the field after her rehabilitation.


#467

PatrThom

PatrThom

The boots break it for me. The rest of the outfit looks sensible and practical, but those boots look too heavy for crimefighting (this could just be because they also look a couple sizes too large).

--Patrick


#468

filmfanatic

filmfanatic

They have also announced that Lobo is getting a new title later this year. It is, however, centered around the "real" Lobo that DC has introduced, instead of the awesome original.



#469

Bowielee

Bowielee

It's a sad, sad day when I prefer Rob Liefeld's version of a character over someone else's.


#470

PatrThom

PatrThom

MUTTONCHOPS! Where are the glorious muttonchops?
images.jpeg

Unknown.jpeg


That illustration @filmfanatic posted above shows a complement of weapons, but with that character design, I keep expecting to see a gunblade.

--Patrick


#471

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Bulky, ugly, with mutton chops and voiced by Brad Garret or GTFO.


#472

figmentPez

figmentPez

PatrThom said:
That illustration @filmfanatic posted above shows a complement of weapons, but with that character design, I keep expecting to see a gunblade.
Click to expand...
Look at the pistol on the left side. It has a blade on the butt of the handle.


#473

PatrThom

PatrThom

figmentPez said:
Look at the pistol on the left side. It has a blade on the butt of the handle.
Click to expand...
I saw it, but given its placement I wasn't sure if it was part of a three-piece fishing rod-type arrangement that included the katana as the rod and the gunhook as the fishhook, or if it was just overlap from the items he is already holding.

--Patrick


#474

evilmike

evilmike

As part of Convergence, DC's big event for next Spring featuring every DC universe colliding with other, all of the regular titles will go on hiatus and DC will publish 40 2-issue mini-series. These series include a number of callbacks to the pre-52 universe including Wally West as Flash, Stephanie Brown as Batgirl, Barbara Gordon as Oracle, Renee Montoya as the Question, and a certain married couple.

(via io9)


#475

fade

fade

Is anyone else getting tired of these big, universe-changing crossover events?


#476

Covar

Covar

fade said:
Is anyone else getting tired of these big, universe-changing crossover events?
Click to expand...
I don't waste my time/energy/emotion on them so no. I'm really more annoyed with people complaining about them constantly. Particularly as they're lining up to buy them. So much good comics out there to enjoy, even from the big 2.


#477

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

evilmike said:
As part of Convergence, DC's big event for next Spring featuring every DC universe colliding with other, all of the regular titles will go on hiatus and DC will publish 40 2-issue mini-series. These series include a number of callbacks to the pre-52 universe including Wally West as Flash, Stephanie Brown as Batgirl, Barbara Gordon as Oracle, Renee Montoya as the Question, and a certain married couple.

(via io9)
Click to expand...
"Hey kids, remember back when people liked our comics more? Well, here's a small teaser of that. But then we're going right back to trying too hard to be like 90's Image Comics."

I just don't care anymore. This feels more like a blatant slap in the face for people like me who hate the new DCU. At this point, I'm more a Marvel fan than I am DC.


#478

Bowielee

Bowielee

Covar said:
I don't waste my time/energy/emotion on them so no. I'm really more annoyed with people complaining about them constantly. Particularly as they're lining up to buy them. So much good comics out there to enjoy, even from the big 2.
Click to expand...
Outside of Swamp Thing and Animal Man, I ain't bought shit from DC since Blew fifty dudes.


#479

AshburnerX

AshburnerX

ThatNickGuy said:
"Hey kids, remember back when people liked our comics more? Well, here's a small teaser of that. But then we're going right back to trying too hard to be like 90's Image Comics."

I just don't care anymore. This feels more like a blatant slap in the face for people like me who hate the new DCU. At this point, I'm more a Marvel fan than I am DC.
Click to expand...
Let me know when they start being like 2000's Image Comics. You know, the stuff I buy the hell out of because it's all pretty much great?


#480

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

I just realized something else:

Not only will they likely use this event in order to show how superior the new universe is, they'll likely kill off a number of characters from the old one in order to hype up this big threat.


#481

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

Somehow I got back to this thread and its first page:

Zero Esc said:
DC is relaunching a bunch of titles at #1, resetting everything. Great idea, I think.
Click to expand...
Well that was a dumb thing to think. Hindsight, eh?


#482

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

A lot of us got pulled into the excitement at first. Even me, whose first comment in this thread showcases my distaste for The Big Two. I wound up getting caught in the excitement, but it slowly dwindled.

I get the feeling Rebirth won't be much different. I'm curious to see what people's opinions will be on it in a few years and compare it with the New 52 universe. Everyone's still riding pretty high with it at the moment, but like New 52, I get the feeling that goodwill (and sales) will dwindle.

If anything, I think Rebirth has been even messier than the New 52. It's not a complete reboot and yet they still rebooted all the titles, acting like it's a fresh reboot. Yet it carries all the continuity from the last five or so years. People keep telling me to read the current Superman book and I'm just completely disinterested. DC hasn't earned my faith back and I doubt anything will at this point.


#483

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

ThatNickGuy said:
A lot of us got pulled into the excitement at first. Even me, whose first comment in this thread showcases my distaste for The Big Two. I wound up getting caught in the excitement, but it slowly dwindled.

I get the feeling Rebirth won't be much different. I'm curious to see what people's opinions will be on it in a few years and compare it with the New 52 universe. Everyone's still riding pretty high with it at the moment, but like New 52, I get the feeling that goodwill (and sales) will dwindle.

If anything, I think Rebirth has been even messier than the New 52. It's not a complete reboot and yet they still rebooted all the titles, acting like it's a fresh reboot. Yet it carries all the continuity from the last five or so years. People keep telling me to read the current Superman book and I'm just completely disinterested. DC hasn't earned my faith back and I doubt anything will at this point.
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Don't ... worry about Superman right now. While it's cool to have the old Superman back and see him interacting with his son, while he and Lois and kid hide out on a farm under the guise of the Smith family, all signs point to a complete return to the old status quo. If they were going to keep a new thing going of Superman deciding farm life was for him with his wife and son, that'd be cool, but they're introducing elements to essentially pave the way to get both parents back to the Daily Planet, with the only difference now being that they have a 10-year-old (who will be in a series with Batman's son and possibly Batcow--now that's a comic I can get behind! :p)

There are some solid series going on with excellent writers,, but will they be left alone to do their thing? We'll see.

The best thing I've seen to come out of the New 52 was a 12-issue maxiseries The Omega Men that DC tried to cancel at issue 7 because it wasn't selling, because as you stated at the beginning of this thread, the really interesting stuff never seems to sell ... until it's collected in its trade and then makes the New York Times bestseller list -_-. DC, you almost screwed yourselves out of money again, and us out of an excellent book.

The only things I'm still curious about from New 52 are the initial run of The Flash (and even DC knows it went crappy after the starting team left, since they're collecting an omnibus of only those issues) and Animal Man (up until its starting team left too ... man, after a couple years New 52 became "abandon ship!" for a lot of these titles).


#484

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

I'll admit SOME gems came out of New 52. Lemire's Animal Man and Snyder's Swamp Thing were two big wins to me. I own the trades for both of their runs. As I stated early in the thread years ago, I dug OMAC and I still have that trade on my shelf. I don't know how it turned out in the long run since I stopped buying it, but I wouldn't mind re-reading Demon Knights. And if DC ever does a new series of trades for Snyder's Batman, collecting them in in some easier to follow volumes (or just ones that would look nicer on the shelf, labeled something like "Scott Snyder's Batman, Volume 1, 2, 3, etc").

I don't know if I ever said it on here, but I think I know what bothers me the most about the classic Superman returning: it feels rushed. What bothers me isn't that he's back, but that DC didn't really earn it in my eyes. They literally skipped years of character development for Lois, Clark, and their son. We didn't see her learning she was pregnant. We didn't see them struggle with the idea of having a child or even if they should (or if she could carry through). We didn't see them visit Kent Farm to excitedly tell Martha (which they can't now because she's dead in this universe). I think the baby was born at the end of Convergence, but then they jumped to the kid being 5 or 6. There are years of storytelling skipped because they decided, "Welp, let's kill off this Supes and bring back the classic. Oh, and then we'll kill of this Lois, too, even though her new Superwoman title was supposed to star her." It all felt so rushed and inorganic. Not to mention that their entire story is muddled with crossovers like Convergence and Flashpoint, events like Rebirth, and other universes. I might have been interested if I could've caught up on the years that happened in between, with the issues of Action Comics that didn't come out because they decided to just return to the original numbering even though we've had 50-some issues focusing on the other guy.

Oh, and as for Omega Men, I plan on reading that in its entirety at some point. I'll have to check if the whole thing is collected yet.

EDIT: Oh hey, look at that. Welp, that's wish listed.


#485

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

ThatNickGuy said:
I'll admit SOME gems came out of New 52. Lemire's Animal Man and Snyder's Swamp Thing were two big wins to me. I own the trades for both of their runs. As I stated early in the thread years ago, I dug OMAC and I still have that trade on my shelf. I don't know how it turned out in the long run since I stopped buying it, but I wouldn't mind re-reading Demon Knights. And if DC ever does a new series of trades for Snyder's Batman, collecting them in in some easier to follow volumes (or just ones that would look nicer on the shelf, labeled something like "Scott Snyder's Batman, Volume 1, 2, 3, etc").
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Snyder's Batman is the whole New 52 run; he never left the title during that phase. I think they just released volume 9 a week or two ago. It'd be nice if they collected them into fewer but larger volumes since he had a five-year run of the title, though. Same with Animal Man; I'm willing to buy the five Lemire volumes, but it'd be nice if they just put them in one or two omnibus covers.

Though not too big. I just got the 52 omnibus this past week, about 1200 pages in one hardcover. This is the best home defense I've ever had :p.

I don't know if I ever said it on here, but I think I know what bothers me the most about the classic Superman returning: it feels rushed. What bothers me isn't that he's back, but that DC didn't really earn it in my eyes. They literally skipped years of character development for Lois, Clark, and their son. We didn't see her learning she was pregnant. We didn't see them struggle with the idea of having a child or even if they should (or if she could carry through). We didn't see them visit Kent Farm to excitedly tell Martha (which they can't now because she's dead in this universe). I think the baby was born at the end of Convergence, but then they jumped to the kid being 5 or 6. There are years of storytelling skipped because they decided, "Welp, let's kill off this Supes and bring back the classic. Oh, and then we'll kill of this Lois, too, even though her new Superwoman title was supposed to star her." It all felt so rushed and inorganic. Not to mention that their entire story is muddled with crossovers like Convergence and Flashpoint, events like Rebirth, and other universes. I might have been interested if I could've caught up on the years that happened in between, with the issues of Action Comics that didn't come out because they decided to just return to the original numbering even though we've had 50-some issues focusing on the other guy.
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That's actually a really good point. Though there is a mini-series about them hiding on Earth post-Convergence, all those stories you listed were never told and probably won't be until someone does a Birthright-style graphic novel of that time period to "redefine" it. Which they should do because otherwise those stories will never be told.

Oh, and as for Omega Men, I plan on reading that in its entirety at some point. I'll have to check if the whole thing is collected yet.

EDIT: Oh hey, look at that. Welp, that's wish listed.
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Yeah, and for being a poor enough seller that DC wouldn't commit to just five more issues, NYT bestseller. I bought it and read it the release week. It's one of those books that should be brought up years from now. The guy who wrote it is on Batman now, so at least he can tell his stories without worrying DC is going to cancel the book this time.


#486

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Zero Esc said:
Snyder's Batman is the whole New 52 run; he never left the title during that phase. I think they just released volume 9 a week or two ago. It'd be nice if they collected them into fewer but larger volumes since he had a five-year run of the title, though. Same with Animal Man; I'm willing to buy the five Lemire volumes, but it'd be nice if they just put them in one or two omnibus covers.

Though not too big. I just got the 52 omnibus this past week, about 1200 pages in one hardcover. This is the best home defense I've ever had :p.
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Heh. It's like when Neil Gaiman got his copy of the first Absolute Sandman. He could stop a burglar with it. When the police ask what happened, he'd say, "I killed him with dreams." :D He said all that in a tweet or blog once.

But yeah, that's basically what I mean. I'd like his run in fewer, but larger volumes like Gail Simone's Secret Six or how DC is now finally re-collecting Greg Rucka's run on Wonder Woman. Given the popularity of Snyder's run, I'm sure it'll get re-collected some time in the future. I'm in no rush. I agree on Lemire's Animal Man. I actually only have the first three volumes (up to the Rotworld crossover with Swamp Thing), but borrowed out the last two at the library. I'd love to see a full, two-volume collection. They did one complete collection for Snyder's Swamp Thing, actually, though to be fair, his run stopped at the end of Rotworld.

Does that 52 omnibus include commentary in between each issue? I have the 4 softcover volumes that came out years ago which includes that. It has commentary from Rucka, Johns, Morrison, Waid, AND Giffen. Some really great insights. I thought about getting the newer 2-volume editions, but flipping through them, I saw the commentary wasn't included, which I thought was a huge loss.


#487

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

ThatNickGuy said:
Heh. It's like when Neil Gaiman got his copy of the first Absolute Sandman. He could stop a burglar with it. When the police ask what happened, he'd say, "I killed him with dreams." :D He said all that in a tweet or blog once.

But yeah, that's basically what I mean. I'd like his run in fewer, but larger volumes like Gail Simone's Secret Six or how DC is now finally re-collecting Greg Rucka's run on Wonder Woman. Given the popularity of Snyder's run, I'm sure it'll get re-collected some time in the future. I'm in no rush. I agree on Lemire's Animal Man. I actually only have the first three volumes (up to the Rotworld crossover with Swamp Thing), but borrowed out the last two at the library. I'd love to see a full, two-volume collection. They did one complete collection for Snyder's Swamp Thing, actually, though to be fair, his run stopped at the end of Rotworld.

Does that 52 omnibus include commentary in between each issue? I have the 4 softcover volumes that came out years ago which includes that. It has commentary from Rucka, Johns, Morrison, Waid, AND Giffen. Some really great insights. I thought about getting the newer 2-volume editions, but flipping through them, I saw the commentary wasn't included, which I thought was a huge loss.
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I hadn't actually started it yet, but I flipped to the ends of a couple issues (these are nice thick pages; Marvel should take notes) and there is sketches, concept art, a little word blurb here and there. I don't know if it's the same commentary as the books you have, but there are some small extras.


#488

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Zero Esc said:
I hadn't actually started it yet, but I flipped to the ends of a couple issues (these are nice thick pages; Marvel should take notes) and there is sketches, concept art, a little word blurb here and there. I don't know if it's the same commentary as the books you have, but there are some small extras.
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Just read a review on Amazon for the omnibus and nope, it doesn't include the commentary. They were in between each issue and were 1-2 pages long each time. Damn shame. Still a great comic and I imagine the omnibus is gorgeous, but to not include the commentary is crazy. It was really insightful looks into the behind-the-scenes stuff. Like how a sudden, throwaway comment from Morrison during a meeting decided on the series' big villain.


#489

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

ThatNickGuy said:
Just read a review on Amazon for the omnibus and nope, it doesn't include the commentary. They were in between each issue and were 1-2 pages long each time. Damn shame. Still a great comic and I imagine the omnibus is gorgeous, but to not include the commentary is crazy. It was really insightful looks into the behind-the-scenes stuff. Like how a sudden, throwaway comment from Morrison during a meeting decided on the series' big villain.
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Nope, nothing like that. Lots of sketches/concept art and blurbs, but no big commentary aside from at the very beginning that summarizes Infinite Crisis. For the most part, it's just the story.


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