Health care bill stands

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Zappit

Zappit

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YES! Now we just need to keep Romney out, as that disconnected little rich bitch says he'd introduce legislation to strike all of the law down.
 
HowDroll

HowDroll

The celebrations on Facebook (mostly by people under the age of 30) have been interesting. I know a few people who are going to be able to get treatment/surgeries they need for pre-existing conditions who wouldn't have been able to if Obamacare was struck down. I myself now know I'm going to have health insurance when I start my business in a few more weeks, as I can get back on my parents' plan. I'm really not sure what a lot of the long-term implications of Obamacare are going to be, but it seems today there's a lot of good coming out of it.
 
blotsfan

blotsfan

Ok, so you people smarter than me might be able to explain this to me.

What is the point of the individual mandate? Whatever I read about it says that it basically forces people who don't have health insurance to buy it. But considering I assume everyone who can afford health insurance has bought it (religious groups notwithstanding), wont that just make life worse for people without a lot of money?
 
Necronic

Necronic

Staff member
You have to have everyone playing the game for it to work. If only the sick people have insurance then insurance prices are too high. Basically you need young/healthy people buying insurance to help pay for the others. The pre-existing conditions policy also requires this, as there's no reason to buy insurance until you are really sick in if they can't turn you away.
 
blotsfan

blotsfan

But if they have to buy it, won't it just let the insurance companies say "Hey, they have to buy this! We can raise prices now!"
 
Necronic

Necronic

Staff member
It could, but there's still a free market, people get to choose which insurance company to go to. So if one of them jacks up their prices people just go to another one. And if they do some sort of collusion w/ hospitals or each other that requires you to go to an expensive one then that is called price-fixing, which is illegal.

There's probably other laws stopping it as well.
 
blotsfan

blotsfan

But if I remember my basic micro-economics class right, increased demand leads to higher prices, collusion or not.
 
Necronic

Necronic

Staff member
In places where supply is limited, sure, but insurance doesn't work like that. It's like a bank. An increase in the number of people wanting to save money there doesn't drive up the costs of saving money there.
 
MindDetective

MindDetective

Supply is virtually unlimited. A free market theoretically drives the price closer to the operating costs, which are basically administrative costs + average insurance payouts/person.
 
Necronic

Necronic

Staff member
Shared risk/cost. Right now the people that don't really need health insurance don't get it, and the peopel that do need it get it, but end up costing insurance companies more than they pay in premiums.

So like, if I'm a baby boomer there's a pretty good chance I will need a major operation (like say knee surgery) in 10 years, and I will probably need a handful of regular medicines for blood pressure etc. And I'm more likely to go to get a CT scan of my chest or something. The cost of those items may well end up exceeding the amount I pay for my premium.

Now, if I'm a young healthy guy, I may pay 200$/mo but I almost never go to the doctor. The money I am putting into health insurance is more than I am recieving in services.

The problem right now is that the people from the second group don't really use insurance, or at least not nearly as much as the people from the first group. The people in the second group who have insurance (like myself) have to pay higher premiums to make up for all the other people in the second group who don't have insurance. So when the number of people in the second group increases the burden I have to pay to support those in the first group decreases.

Edit: Another point is that there are a lot of people without health insurance who don't catch health issues early and end up going to the ER or getting treatments that are wayyyyy more expensive than it would have cost early on. Since they are unable to pay their bills the expense of their visit ends up getting put on the second group.

Now, by forcing them to buy insurance (or fining them), means that they may well get the preventative medicne they need to ensure that the cost of their ailment is mitigated and controlled early on.

So, another cost saver.
 
Zappit

Zappit

Staff member
Mitt's giving his speech right now, blasting the healthcare model he pioneered and implemented in Massachusetts.

I'm really relieved by this, as my kidney disease could count as a pre-existing condition. I won't suddenly lose my care because the insurance company doesn't want to pay. There were too many people paying their monthly fees, and then getting cut when they got sick on some flimsy pretext - like acne. You kinda feel safe when that can't happen to you.
 
S

Soliloquy

I'm glad the pre-existing condition thing stands. I've got a friend who could potentially be in a lot of trouble if it didn't. I've also got a brother who wouldn't be on health insurance anymore if the "able to be on your parents' health insurance until age 26" thing fell through.

But I don't trust for one moment that insurance companies are going to lower their prices. They all know they don't have to, and they all know that everyone has to buy insurance anyway -- or pay a fine. I foresee this ending badly for those who can't afford insurance. I also forsee this ending badly for the economy, as it gives employers an additional cost for hiring people.

I mean, I can't say for sure how things will turn out, but the entire plan seems to hinge on trusting insurance companies and corporations to do the right thing for the good of the people -- and there is no way they're going to do that.
 
MindDetective

MindDetective

Soliloquy said:
I mean, I can't say for sure how things will turn out, but the entire plan seems to hinge on trusting insurance companies and corporations to do the right thing for the good of the people -- and there is no way they're going to do that.
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No it doesn't. It hinges on people being able to pick and choose who they give their money to.
 
Necronic

Necronic

Staff member
If you think that overcharging your customers is a good way to make money then you don't understand how business works.
 
S

Soliloquy

MindDetective said:
No it doesn't. It hinges on people being able to pick and choose who they give their money to.
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I don't have faith that the free market system will work to lower prices when the demand reaches the level of "mandatory."
 
BananaHands

BananaHands

Staff member
Being a high-risk situation for this, I can't help but to be in the corner for health care reform, but this could be setting a bad precedent.
 
Adam

Adam

Enjoying watching far right heads explode as this is thought to be the "End of the Great Republic".

Meanwhile the majority of them are the greatest beneficiaries of the program.
 
tegid

tegid

MindDetective said:
The more Necronic describes it that way, the more it seems like a Social Security tax.
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A private S.Security tax regulated by the free market. Seems to me a lot of people who are against it should be in favor (especially if you consider as an alternative not what you previously had but the public systems in place in several other countries).
 
Adam

Adam

Charlie Don't Surf said:
Yeah, www.kurrently.com is a goldmine

it almost takes the sting off of this bill not being the solution I'd want
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A quick sampling of titles from Freerepublic:
Fourth of July Canceled.(vanity)

Health Care Ruling: What It Means For You (It means Obama is toast!)

DEATH PANELS HAVE ARRIVED

The Silver Lining: Mitt Romney just won the election.

The Dream Is Over: SCOTUS Says You're No Longer Free

Fly Your Flags UPSIDE DOWN in Distress

We plan to fire the liberals in our company

It's the End of America As We Know It!

America Crosses The Rubicon

Stock market tanks on Supreme Court Decision (going vertical)

(The stock market one makes me laugh because it was vertical well before the decision was announced)
Will John Roberts be remembered in history the same as Benedict Arnold?

Today is The Day U.S. Citizens Became Slaves of Their Government

ObamaCare ruling means Americans hostage to 70 years of Supreme Court madness
 
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