[NCAAF] Goodbye Joe Pa
- Thread starter Mathias
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You're not getting it. The school did do it. Those men, the head football coach, the Athletic Director, the president of the University, they acted in the name of Penn State Football. They acted in the name of the Pennsylvania State University. Those men covered up horrific acts in order to protect the reputation of the football program and the university as a whole. They acted to protect the millions of dollars the football program brought to the university. They did not do this on their own. They put the university seal on the coverup.
As the NCAA calls it, "lack of institutional control".
We're not talking about shutting down an entire university here, we're talking about holding them accountable for what they allowed to happen in their name. Penn State will continue to exist with or without a football team.
As the NCAA calls it, "lack of institutional control".
We're not talking about shutting down an entire university here, we're talking about holding them accountable for what they allowed to happen in their name. Penn State will continue to exist with or without a football team.
Punishments announced.
60 million dollar fine.
4 year postseason ban.
Loss of scholarships
Paterno's wins vacated dating back to 1998
Any player can transfer and play next season, or quit football and just become a regular student at penn state while keeping his scholarship.
http://espn.go.com/college-football...million-fine-4-year-bowl-ban-wins-dating-1998
Not the death penalty, but thats gonna kill penn state. Gonna be interesting to see the fight over their players.
60 million dollar fine.
4 year postseason ban.
Loss of scholarships
Paterno's wins vacated dating back to 1998
Any player can transfer and play next season, or quit football and just become a regular student at penn state while keeping his scholarship.
http://espn.go.com/college-football...million-fine-4-year-bowl-ban-wins-dating-1998
Not the death penalty, but thats gonna kill penn state. Gonna be interesting to see the fight over their players.
That is fucking awesome. I am giddy that he lost the all time wins record. His statue is torn down and this is his legacy now.
Unless they are an NFL prospect.
Dave
Staff member
Or think they are.
So if you are the 3rd string right guard, sit where you are and take the cash...
GasBandit
Staff member
I'm not super familiar with the administrative side of NCAA sports, so can someone explain the long-term affects to me?
Is that fine coming out of their football program or the university coffers?
Does that also go for conference revenues?
I'm not really sure what this is supposed to do. I understand the idea of punishing the cultural pressures that lead to this, but seeing as how it doesn't directly affect the same cultural pressures existing at other football schools, I'm not sure what this is supposed to solve except temporarily remove a single school from the equation.
Also, what is the NCAA going to be doing with that fine money? I have no clue what financial obligations they have or don't have, so I'm curious about the intent here (beyond punishing Penn State).
Is that fine coming out of their football program or the university coffers?
Does that also go for conference revenues?
I'm not really sure what this is supposed to do. I understand the idea of punishing the cultural pressures that lead to this, but seeing as how it doesn't directly affect the same cultural pressures existing at other football schools, I'm not sure what this is supposed to solve except temporarily remove a single school from the equation.
Also, what is the NCAA going to be doing with that fine money? I have no clue what financial obligations they have or don't have, so I'm curious about the intent here (beyond punishing Penn State).
Maybe the NCAA will find an ex-coach and start a charity for neglected and fatherless boys...
This is the only time I really like vacating wins just from the asshole side of giving the all-time-wins record back to a good person (as far as I know)
You don't strike me as the kind of person who is okay with whitewashing history.
Vacating wins is frankly just insulting. It means nothing (the games were still played and the team that lost still lost), and only serves to let the NCAA pat themselves on the back.
As far as banning of bowl or championship appearances I'd probably be insulted if I were the other teams in the conference. Don't give Penn State the money if they make a bowl appearance that's great, but if you don't want them to be in the system just kick them out or kill the program. Don't make it so a team that plays worse than them can receive accolades they don't deserve.
I don't think the vacating wins is whitewashing history. I think it's just purely punitive for the school / people. It doesn't give the opposing team a win or anything. When... I think it was USC vacated their national championship, the crystal ball didn't go to the team they lost to. Or the #2 ranked team at the end of the season in the BCS.
As far as I'm concerned the people giddy about the win vacating are doing so because of school rivalry and not because they care about young boys being raped.
Overall I understand the 60 million and the probation period and even the bowl games.
Did the molestation of young boys somehow help PSU win games from 98 to 2012? Am I missing something?
I don't think it did, really. Until someone else passes his number - the actual number of wins he earned, not the spiteful reduced number as a result of this - there will always be an asterisk or an "it's the best in the record book, but..." attached to whoever has first place.
Plus the fact that he's dead and isn't suffering as a result of any of this, of course.
Plus the fact that he's dead and isn't suffering as a result of any of this, of course.
Eh, it's punishment for a school that had it's authority figures cover up child molestation. It has zero impact on me but I'm delighted (I wouldn't call it giddy since I'm not in pigtails jumping up and down) that people and organizations are taking it seriously. If you cover up kids getting abused you get punished. I think the people who are complaining that this is just too harsh might need to step back a second. Or not. Whatever rocks your socks I guess.
I root for an SEC team, we don't give a fuck about the other shitty conferences.
He's dead, and doesn't care about that. What's the point? I've stated before that I hate Penn State, but that's no reason to tarnish their football record when the case at hand has nothing to do with cheating. The NCAA didn't even give them due process like they did for every other infringing university has ever received. The problem I have is this. Essentially the blame comes down to four guys. One is dead. One has been tried and found guilty and is going to Federal prison, and the other two will probably be charged. Therefore I fully support the punishment in terms of a financial blow to the football dept (60 million is a bit steep, but whatever), probation, and the loss of bowl games. However, vacating wins and removing scholarships is bullshit of all bullshits. I really think the NCAA over-stepped it's boundaries, and all that Mark Emmert is spouting about academics vs. athletics is bullshit too. The only reason he acted was due to the media circus pressure depicting PSU as the scapegoat itself. It's about four guys. Period.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/20...el/07/23/penn-state-ncaa-sanctions/index.html[DOUBLEPOST=1343093018][/DOUBLEPOST]
I feel it is too harsh because justice had been served when the perpetrator of the crimes had been convicted and sent to Federal prison. On what grounds is the NCAA acting? The Freeh report is an investigation drawn up by one judge (who has a murky history to himself). Really the NCAA has no right to act until Graham Spanier, Gary Schultz and Tim Curley are tried and convicted for conspiracy in a court of law. They've done this for every single university scandal except this one.[DOUBLEPOST=1343093406][/DOUBLEPOST]
That's great and all, but it seems to me you care more about another institution getting hammered to the wall over any actual justice being bestowed upon the victims. What do the NCAA punishments really accomplish other than showing that the NCAA can act on a university well outside matters that govern university athletics. Why are they even involved? In what way does the scandal affect the outcome of the games played by PSU? That's the whole purpose of the NCAA: to monitor fairness between competing institutions; not to get involved in matters outside of what directly affects the players and coaches.
Guys look at how ridiculous this has gotten. This story is about Sandusky first and foremost. Then Joe Paterno, Graham Spanier, Gary Schultz and Tim Curley. That's where it ends. What the hell is going on where the media is now targeting the entire institution and in so doing pressuring action from the NCAA. It's almost like mob-justice.
Not almost like, exactly like.
Either way, it's clear that people are going to grab their pitchforks and torches.
I see it as no different from a company getting punished for a few executives deciding it's ok to dump toxic waste in residential areas. Did the company as a whole play a role in it? No. You have to make sure other companies don't follow suit thinking the specific people making the decisions are the only ones punished though. It was a company decision, just like the decision to cover this up was.
Yes that's fine. Can you explain why the NCAA is actively crippling the football program though? The problem with the company analogy is a company would be fined and forced to pay restorative fees to the damage it caused. That fine would be a decided amount based off the damage cause.
It's not like a punishment would be forcing that company to reduce employee salaries (scholarships) or mar every company award (wins) from the record books.
The problem is the NCAA is an organization. They decide what is proper behavior for that organization. I think the catholic church and the boy scouts could learn a lesson from this. Show that covering up this sort of behavior is not acceptable, and it wouldn't become an institutional norm like it is for them.
They covered it up to protect the football program since if this came out, it would be a black mark and make re€€€€€€€
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http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-fo...cgloin-ncaa-freeh-report-joe-paterno-sandusky
I'm really impressed with the current PSU players. They are taking this full brunt, head-on, and together. Really impressed that none of them are leaving, essentially saying F-U to the NCAA's imposed free agency sanction. As someone who's played organized sports my whole life, I really respect that the individual players are putting the team and their school ahead of themselves. Good for them. Finally, some positive light in this story.
I'm really impressed with the current PSU players. They are taking this full brunt, head-on, and together. Really impressed that none of them are leaving, essentially saying F-U to the NCAA's imposed free agency sanction. As someone who's played organized sports my whole life, I really respect that the individual players are putting the team and their school ahead of themselves. Good for them. Finally, some positive light in this story.
Wait, you like a college football team but think it should be banned?
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