[Brazelton] US Ambassador to Libya killed, consulate burned down

[GasBandit]

U.S. Ambassador to Libya Chris Stevens was killed late Tuesday -- September 11 -- along with three other embassy staff after armed militants stormed the U.S. consulate in Benghazi in retaliation for a California businessman's low-budget anti-Muslim film, Innocence of Muslims, that attacks Islam's prophet Muhammad.

What an interesting and coincidental choice of day for that to happen - and also have similar protests if not attacks in other arab nations on US embassies.

This is just the latest thin excuse, flimsy pretext to rail against the american infidel devil.

Obama's condemnation of the attacks was equaled by his condemnation of those who "hurt the religious feelings" of muslims with their mean and evil low budget movies.

 

[sixpackshaker]

If one of the points that the guy wanted to make was, Muslims are petulant children that murder at the flimsiest of excuses, then he proved himself right.

Now he needs to man up and not stay in hiding and take responsibility for his actions. Four good men died because of his Bullshit, Rabble Rousing.

 

[Covar]

Seriously?

 

[GasBandit]

Funny how any time somebody mocks Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism (please do not offer my god a peanut), buddhism, shintoism, etc... no embassies get invaded. Did the guy make an offensive video? Yes. Does that make him in ANY WAY RESPONSIBLE for the churlish, idiotic, senseless murder of innocents by borderline subhumans with mentalities rooted in a century with only a single digit? Not in the least.

As said, the stupid movie only provided the pretext for them to do what they wanted to do anyway: kill more americans on september 11.

 

[Gared]

The incredibly cynical part of me gives it 2 days, 3 at most, before the latest reports that the killings were actually carried out by "heavily armed Islamist radicals who infiltrated the protests as cover" become reports that Iran did this, and that this is just the "Red Line" that Israel needs to authorize a full-on war against Iran.

I do love Reince's claims yesterday that Obama sympathized with the attackers in Egypt. That's real fuckin' classy, Reince. You keep fighting the good fight and doing everything you can to paint a good, Christian, American president as a filthy America-hating Muslim; on 9/11, no less. You know, it's funny... but I've been searching for several hours now for any indication that Obama actually did say anything at all about "sympathizing" with the Egyptian attackers, and I can't find anything. Now, I did find the tweets that the US Embassy staff in Cairo deleted (because once something's online, it's never gone forever, no matter how badly you want it to be), that said that they condemned the abuse of the right to free speech to hurt the religious feelings of others; but if Reince wants to claim that, because some part of the government (an Embassy in Cairo) said something, then obviously the President believes the same thing, then I'm afraid I'm going to have to draw the conclusion that, regardless of whatever else Romney and Reince say, they must absolutely believe that there is a difference between legitimate rape, and consensual sex - which would be any sex that results in pregnancy.

Sorry guys, you can't have your cake and smear it in your opponent's face too.

 

[@Li3n]

Does that make him in ANY WAY RESPONSIBLE for the churlish, idiotic, senseless murder of innocents by borderline subhumans with mentalities rooted in a century with only a single digit? Not in the least.

TIL, GasBandit thinks the Spanish Inquisition happened before the 10th century...

Sorry guys, you can't have your cake and smear it in your opponent's face too.

You can if you regurgitate it all mangled up...

 

[GasBandit]

TIL, GasBandit thinks the Spanish Inquisition happened before the 10th century...

TIL @Li3n doesn't realize that Islam was founded in the 7th century.

 

[Wahad]

For anybody here who played EVE, one of the people killed was Vilerat. The community is now renaming a ton of stations in his memory: http://evemaps.dotlan.net/outposts/changes

Not even going to say anything else because I'll probably be howled out of the thread anyway. My sympathies go out to families of the deceased.

 

[strawman]

Obama's condemnation of the attacks was equaled by his condemnation of those who "hurt the religious feelings" of muslims with their mean and evil low budget movies.

Wait, can I get a quote of what he said? Did he really spend time during the same statement about the murders of diplomats to ask people to suppress their right to free speech? Did he really suggest that as a nation we should live by the laws of the Muslim religion by forcing everyone to respect their prophet, regardless of our own views?

 

[sixpackshaker]

Wait, can I get a quote of what he said?

No, to the best of my knowledge Obama said no such thing.

 

[GasBandit]

Wait, can I get a quote of what he said? Did he really spend time during the same statement about the murders of diplomats to ask people to suppress their right to free speech? Did he really suggest that as a nation we should live by the laws of the Muslim religion by forcing everyone to respect their prophet, regardless of our own views?

It was not during obama's speech this morning, it was his state department's statement issued on the egypt protest-turned-embassy-invasion. I linked it in what you quoted.

September 11, 2012

The Embassy of the United States in Cairo condemns the continuing efforts by misguided individuals to hurt the religious feelings of Muslims – as we condemn efforts to offend believers of all religions. Today, the 11th anniversary of the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks on the United States, Americans are honoring our patriots and those who serve our nation as the fitting response to the enemies of democracy. Respect for religious beliefs is a cornerstone of American democracy. We firmly reject the actions by those who abuse the universal right of free speech to hurt the religious beliefs of others

.

"Abuse freedom of speech to hurt feelings." My mohammadesque butthole.


Someone who puts my thoughts eloquently into words:
If a low budget film by a fringe Florida pastor carries more weight in the Muslim world than the words and deeds of the President of the United States then that tells me ... these efforts to engage the Muslim world are a monumental waste of time.

 

[Wahad]

Relevant.

Edit; Link with more pictures of this protest.

Edit 2: changed the representative picture so that people don't miss the point.

 

[GasBandit]

Well, that's an encouraging picture, even if there's only a half dozen people in it.

Meanwhile, Obama throws the egypt embassy under the bus. The embassy doesn't speak for the president now? Was not authorized but came from the official source? I guess that 3:00 am call they were talking about in 2008 finally came, and nobody picked up the phone.



[DOUBLEPOST=1347482819][/DOUBLEPOST]

Yeah, tear down that american flag while you wear your adidas sweatpants, dudes.

 

[strawman]

No, to the best of my knowledge Obama said no such thing.

Ah, it was the embassy that made the odd statement. And, predictably, Obama disassociated himself from it. It would have been monumentally stupid to have said it, or let it stand.

 

[GasBandit]

Attack drones headed towards Libya. Sucks to be a jihadi today.

 

[strawman]

Attack drones headed towards Libya. Sucks to be a jihadi today.

Where do you get the word attack, when the first sentence in the article begins with "A senior U.S. official tells CNN that U.S. unmanned surveillance drones..."

Surveillance drones are cheaper to buy and operate than those meant to carry munitions, so attack drones are only used when you are actually actively attacking a target.[DOUBLEPOST=1347483557][/DOUBLEPOST]In b4 conspiracy theorists suggest that the US carried out the murders so they could convince Libya to allow drone overflights into their country...

 

[@Li3n]

TIL @Li3n doesn't realize that Islam was founded in the 7th century.

And during the middle ages it was a way more tolerant religion that christianity (at least to the "peoples of the book")... while murdering others over hurt feeling is older then written history...

The embassy doesn't speak for the president now? Was not authorized but came from the official source? I guess that 3:00 am call they were talking about in 2008 finally came, and nobody picked up the phone.

Should we start calling you Mike or did you just steal that?[DOUBLEPOST=1347483707][/DOUBLEPOST]

In b4 conspiracy theorists suggest that the US carried out the murders so they could convince Libya to allow drone overflights into their country...

Well we still don't know if the guy behind the movie actually exists, so DUN DUN DUN DUN!!!!!

 

[sixpackshaker]

Yeah, tear down that american flag while you wear your adidas sweatpants, dudes.

Go ahead and blame Anonymous, since there are more Guy Fawkes masks than Adidas sweats. It would only be ironic to burn the German Flag while wearing Adidas.

 

[strawman]

The fact that one can identify adidas sweatpants in a photograph says more about one's brand awareness than about the rioters.

 

[GasBandit]

Go ahead and blame Anonymous, since there are more Guy Fawkes masks than Adidas sweats. It would only be ironic to burn the German Flag while wearing Adidas.

I see 2 guy fawkes masks, I see 2 pairs of adidas pants.

The fact that one can identify adidas sweatpants in a photograph says more about one's brand awareness than about the rioters.

They're actually very identifiable. Dark/Navy blue with white stripes down the outer seam. It's a brand image they've been cultivating for decades.

I'm not even going to dignify @lien's asinine bullshit with a response.

 

[Gared]

If a low budget film by a fringe Florida pastor carries more weight in the Muslim world than the words and deeds of the President of the United States then that tells me ... these efforts to engage the Muslim world are a monumental waste of time.

I've been trying to figure out how to adequately express my... concerns... over a comment like this for a while now; without just falling back on hyperbole. But after a couple of hours of consideration, I find myself strangely OK with this concept, so long as it can be applied unilaterally. For instance, Christians keep blowing up abortion clinics and killing doctors who perform abortions; this has been going on for years, so we should stop trying to engage the whole of Christianity in any kind of debate. Republicans keep saying really horrific stuff about poor people, people without adequate health care, cheering when politicians say that we should just let poor people die, etc., so we should stop trying to engage them outright.

And the list goes on. In fact, no single group of people is immune from having some member, or small sect of members, who've tarnished the reputation of the entire group, so we should just stop engaging in any sort of social or civil activity. Anarchy is clearly the only way that we can move forward as individuals.

 

[DarkAudit]

Adidas is GERMAN, dude.

 

[@Li3n]

I'm not even going to dignify @lien's asinine bullshit with a response.

Well that's rude, i mean i dignified yours with one...

PS: The Mike thing was based on the fact that the 1st comment from that article you linked said the exact same thing about the 3am thing.

 

[BananaHands]

 

[GasBandit]

I've been trying to figure out how to adequately express my... concerns... over a comment like this for a while now; without just falling back on hyperbole. But after a couple of hours of consideration, I find myself strangely OK with this concept, so long as it can be applied unilaterally. For instance, Christians keep blowing up abortion clinics and killing doctors who perform abortions; this has been going on for years, so we should stop trying to engage the whole of Christianity in any kind of debate. Republicans keep saying really horrific stuff about poor people, people without adequate health care, cheering when politicians say that we should just let poor people die, etc., so we should stop trying to engage them outright.

You had me through Christians, but I'd like to see some links on the "cheering that we should let poor people die" thing. Cause it just sounds like stock issue leftist hyperbole.

Adidas is GERMAN, dude.

Germans have more in common with the US than with Egypt, and I'd even be willing to bet more Americans wear Adidas products than Germans. Was Run DMC German?

Welp, I googled it to see... we're like on page 4 or so.

 

[GasBandit]

Libyans in Benghazi took to the streets today to make it clear they do not condone the attack by militants on the U.S. consulate that killed U.S. Ambassador Chris Stevens and three other Americans.

Their signs were full of apology and support: "Benghazi is against terrorism"; "Chris Stevens was a friend to all Libyans"; and "No No No to Al Qaeda."

Mohammed Magarief, Libya's interim leader, said that the National Congress and the transitional government "condemn the criminal aggression," and will make sure justice is served.

[DOUBLEPOST=1347554532][/DOUBLEPOST]More Pictures:

 

[Gared]

You had me through Christians, but I'd like to see some links on the "cheering that we should let poor people die" thing. Cause it just sounds like stock issue leftist hyperbole.

Really, you hadn't heard about that one? That's odd... it happened exactly a year before yesterday at a GOP debate, back in the primary season, hosted by CNN and the Tea Party and mediated by Wolf Blitzer - made all of the newspapers and everything. Here are some sources. Oh, and for clarity's sake, I'm not talking about the politicians themselves, I'm talking about the audience members, the voters who keep electing those politicians, or trying to at least.

Raw Story - I don't really like Raw Story myself, it doesn't feel like a legitimate enough news source, so there's also
Yahoo News - Though most of the comments seem to be centered around what a Lenninist, left-wing slut the journalist is and how she must have been blowing her boyfriend at the time.

But, I suppose, since that little kerfuffle did include the Tea Party, and they are rather extreme as a group, I'll have to go with my fall-back reason to not want to deal with the Republican party or their voters at all - their statement to their voting base, and to the American population at large - that their number one priority, in a time when we have massive debt problems, 15+% poverty rates, 8.1% unemployment, a weak economy which is struggling to recover, a 12 year long war that's winding down but still managing to kill off our soldiers, a suicide epidemic among our armed forces, escalating tensions between one of our allies (Israel) and Iran, and everything else going on in this country and abroad; their number one priority isn't to fix any of those things through direct action. Their number one priority is to ensure that President Obama is a one-term president. And yes, I know you love sources, so here you go.

- Senate Minority Leader, Mitch McConnell; 2010

Although, it seems that maybe the Senator McConnell was slightly off-message, since the number one priority according to Boehner a mere 8 months earlier was not to make Obama a 1 one-term president (or, of course, to do anything to fix all of those problems up there), but to repeal Obamacare.

 

[BananaHands]

They sure have wonderful priorities. Take the House Republican Leader in Pa., Mike Turzai as an example:


Why not spend a significant amount of time restricting the right to vote instead of focusing on issues?

 

[Dei]

Yes it's Fox News, but it's nothing biased, just about one of the people killed.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...a-to-fellow-gamers-assuming-dont-die-tonight/

 

[GasBandit]

Really, you hadn't heard about that one? That's odd... it happened exactly a year before yesterday at a GOP debate, back in the primary season, hosted by CNN and the Tea Party and mediated by Wolf Blitzer - made all of the newspapers and everything. Here are some sources. Oh, and for clarity's sake, I'm not talking about the politicians themselves, I'm talking about the audience members, the voters who keep electing those politicians, or trying to at least.

Raw Story - I don't really like Raw Story myself, it doesn't feel like a legitimate enough news source, so there's also
Yahoo News - Though most of the comments seem to be centered around what a Lenninist, left-wing slut the journalist is and how she must have been blowing her boyfriend at the time.

But, I suppose, since that little kerfuffle did include the Tea Party, and they are rather extreme as a group, I'll have to go with my fall-back reason to not want to deal with the Republican party or their voters at all - their statement to their voting base, and to the American population at large - that their number one priority, in a time when we have massive debt problems, 15+% poverty rates, 8.1% unemployment, a weak economy which is struggling to recover, a 12 year long war that's winding down but still managing to kill off our soldiers, a suicide epidemic among our armed forces, escalating tensions between one of our allies (Israel) and Iran, and everything else going on in this country and abroad; their number one priority isn't to fix any of those things through direct action. Their number one priority is to ensure that President Obama is a one-term president. And yes, I know you love sources, so here you go.

- Senate Minority Leader, Mitch McConnell; 2010

Although, it seems that maybe the Senator McConnell was slightly off-message, since the number one priority according to Boehner a mere 8 months earlier was not to make Obama a 1 one-term president (or, of course, to do anything to fix all of those problems up there), but to repeal Obamacare.

Ok, I watched the video, it was two guys who yelled "Yeah!" and then a handful of people laughed after wolf blitzer asked Ron Paul "should we just let them die?" After which Paul immediately said "No, I used to be a practicing doctor, we never turn anyone away" which was met by raucous applause.

The rest of what you (and Banana) are talking about is arguing over semantics and context - of course their number 1 priority is making sure President Obama doesn't get re-elected, they don't think they can accomplish anything else unless that is done first. Frankly, I wish it was their #1 priority - but I'm not so sure it really is.

They sure have wonderful priorities. Take the House Republican Leader in Pa., Mike Turzai as an example:

And that is easily explained (and has been) by anyone without a political axe to grind as a badly phrased way of saying that he believes that preventing voter fraud will level the playing field enough to where Romney can win. He'd have to have been mentally disabled to come out and say what the equally brain-dead people keep insisting he's "really saying."

 

[Gared]

Like I said, I'm talking specifically about those people in the audience, not the politicians themselves. And frankly, if anyone's number one priority in a two-party representative democracy is, above all else, the removal of the other side's political leader from office, rather than working with that person to accomplish the goals of the many, they can fuck right off and I, personally, will feel absolutely no regret about refusing to deal with them or their supporters. If your view is going to be "I'd rather get rid of you than try to work with you to improve the lot of the entire country," don't be surprised or dismayed when my view is the same.

In a much less politicized view, however, the rate with which this bullshit is spreading is really starting to erode my patience and tolerance. We now have reports of protests at US embassies in Cairo (more protests), Yemen, Libya, Iran, Iraq, Israel, Gaza, Kashmir, Tunisia, Sudan, Morocco, and Egypt (outside of Cairo).

I get that you're pissed off. I get that this movie offended you. I can't get behind violent retaliation because you didn't like a movie. Stop attacking the government employees who had absolutely nothing to do with this, before this gets completely out of hand.

 

[GasBandit]

Like I said, I'm talking specifically about those people in the audience, not the politicians themselves. And frankly, if anyone's number one priority in a two-party representative democracy is, above all else, the removal of the other side's political leader from office, rather than working with that person to accomplish the goals of the many, they can fuck right off and I, personally, will feel absolutely no regret about refusing to deal with them or their supporters. If your view is going to be "I'd rather get rid of you than try to work with you to improve the lot of the entire country," don't be surprised or dismayed when my view is the same.

Well, that last sentence is fair enough. The real issue here is a genuine conflict of two completely incompatible worldviews - collectivism and individualism. Those who feel that the cradle-to-grave government nanny state depicted in the Obama campaign's "Life of Julia" is comforting or horrifying. In today's political reality, there flat out is a great deal of territory over which there can be no "working together," no compromise. Your reaction is the natural progression of this reality. For too long has "work with us" been a euphemism for "give us what we want and shut up," and a great many people are sick of it.

You may have cancer and heart disease and blood pressure problems, but if somebody is trying to "fix" all that by putting leeches on you, your first priority needs to be to stop the quack from putting leeches on you.

 

[sixpackshaker]

Yeah, let the other world view bleed you instead.

 

[strawman]

Yeah, let the other world view bleed you instead.

So you're saying that no one has a reasonable plan? That seems fairly fatalistic.

 

[Gared]

Well, that last sentence is fair enough. The real issue here is a genuine conflict of two completely incompatible worldviews - collectivism and individualism. Those who feel that the cradle-to-grave government nanny state depicted in the Obama campaign's "Life of Julia" is comforting or horrifying. In today's political reality, there flat out is a great deal of territory over which there can be no "working together," no compromise. Your reaction is the natural progression of this reality. For too long has "work with us" been a euphemism for "give us what we want and shut up," and a great many people are sick of it.

You may have cancer and heart disease and blood pressure problems, but if somebody is trying to "fix" all that by putting leeches on you, your first priority needs to be to stop the quack from putting leeches on you.

Honestly, for several years now, I've found myself wondering if the real problem, in the absolute heart of the political divide between liberals and conservatives in America (and all of their off-shoots), isn't that this country is simply too big, too heavily populated, and too diverse for the government that was established 200+ years ago, when the population of the entire country was only 300k people more than the population of the metro area that I currently live in, to continue to govern using the same methods, rules, and values. Since the time when the Constitution was drafted, we've added massive amounts of new immigrants, all with their own personal values, fears, hopes, and moralities; not to mention their own religions and their own cultural heritages. Outside of immigration, we've added massive amounts of natural born citizens, whose viewpoints are just as widely divergent as those of the various immigrants. Technologies and tools, how we accomplish the things we've been doing since the founding of the country, have changed so much in some cases that it's nearly impossible to recognize that the new tools are working on the same projects as the old (case in point, your example of leeches).

And honestly, at the end of the day, I don't know that any of these divides can ever be sealed, and in some cases I'm not sure that they should be - where "sealing" a divide means subjugating one person's beliefs* in favor of another person's.

*Except in cases where people use their beliefs to hold other people down. Racism, for instance.