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Happy Halloween, here's some lost faith in humanity for you - 13 preadolescent, unrepentant murderers.

Yikes. Um....thanks....?

I love the fact that Google ads is showing me Dexter in this thread.

Dave said:

Yikes. Um....thanks....?

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Always happy to oblige.

You know, one thing I noticed is that most of these stories fall along the lines of "people wanted the death penalty, but the judge went lenient on the kid and now they're out." Up until you get to the black kid, which then becomes "youngest person to get life in prison without parole."

Ugh, the worst is when you read that a kid did something sexual to their victims. That's usually a spot on indicator that that kid themselves had been victims of sexual crimes.

Ravenpoe said:

You know, one thing I noticed is that most of these stories fall along the lines of "people wanted the death penalty, but the judge went lenient on the kid and now they're out." Up until you get to the black kid, which then becomes "youngest person to get life in prison without parole."

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Who was then released, and robbed a pizza delivery...

sixpackshaker said:

Who was then released, and robbed a pizza delivery...

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My point wasn't that he was innocent. My point was sentencing bias in judges and juries.

Also most of these kids are not in America.

very little holds a candle to Albert Fish. And these are close.

I think I could have gone the rest of my life quite happily not knowing about Albert Fish... damn my innate curiosity.

Ravenpoe said:

You know, one thing I noticed is that most of these stories fall along the lines of "people wanted the death penalty, but the judge went lenient on the kid and now they're out." Up until you get to the black kid, which then becomes "youngest person to get life in prison without parole."

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I noticed that too.

Brrr... this is disturbing.

Parents of young infants should not read that link.

MindDetective said:

Parents of young infants should not read that link.

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I'm not certain that anyone should read that link. At the risk of starting a philosophical discussion, is there really any purpose that a list like that serves, other than to remind us that there are "monsters" in this world?

you know, a couple of them aren't that bad. The black kids for instance actually seems like ti could have been an accident. Except for the fact that he was black of course.

I do like that the examples are from all sorts of time periods. Usually when they have an article like this, they use it as a springboard to try to illustrate how the current state of the media or culture is breeding kids who are serial killers.

They even left out "I hate Mondays."

err, "I don't like Mondays."

the nastiest serial killers I've heard of were HH Holmes and Albert Fish, bar none. Not to mention war criminals/murderous royalty. Serial killers of today have nothing on the old ones. Thankfully.

Necronic said:

the nastiest serial killers I've heard of were HH Holmes and Albert Fish, bar none. Not to mention war criminals/murderous royalty. Serial killers of today have nothing on the old ones. Thankfully.

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So far as we've heard, at least. Last I heard, they still didn't know why all of those feet kept washing ashore in B.C, pre-tsunami.

probably Chinese or Russian gangland assasinations.

Gared said:

I'm not certain that anyone should read that link. At the risk of starting a philosophical discussion, is there really any purpose that a list like that serves, other than to remind us that there are "monsters" in this world?

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Yes. I want to hurt your soul.

But that aside, there's little I enjoy more than a "Human beings are inherently evil" discussion.

heh. If reading words on an electronic medium could hurt my soul, I'd be screwed. Or dead. Or possibly locked away in a psychiatric hospital for the rest of my days. I'm pretty sure my soul is safe from reading this list.

Gared said:

heh. If reading words on an electronic medium could hurt my soul, I'd be screwed. Or dead. Or possibly locked away in a psychiatric hospital for the rest of my days. I'm pretty sure my soul is safe from reading this list.

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Sociopath.

Though, since you specify "electronic" medium, would you say you are more susceptible to the physically printed word?

GasBandit said:

Though, since you specify "electronic" medium, would you say you are more susceptible to the physically printed word?

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Can't say I am, no.

Gared said:

Can't say I am, no.

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Spoken word, then?

That depends. If I'm just listening to a story, or a description of something or someone, no. If someone is talking directly to me, and is threatening me or my loved ones/friends? Then yeah, I can be affected by that.

Gared said:

That depends. If I'm just listening to a story, or a description of something or someone, no. If someone is talking directly to me, and is threatening me or my loved ones/friends? Then yeah, I can be affected by that.

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Does it have to be a threat? There is no abstract, or merely non-immediate concept which can threaten your perception of yourself or the world around you?

Sure, but we were discussing what could hurt my soul, not what could alter my perception of myself or the world around me. Plenty of things can alter my perception of myself or the world around me, but my soul remains (mostly) intact. Even this conversation has the possibility of altering my perception of myself, if not directly through your questions then indirectly by the amount, and topic, of introspection that goes into me formulating my answers.

Gared said:

Sure, but we were discussing what could hurt my soul, not what could alter my perception of myself or the world around me. Plenty of things can alter my perception of myself or the world around me, but my soul remains (mostly) intact. Even this conversation has the possibility of altering my perception of myself, if not directly through your questions then indirectly by the amount, and topic, of introspection that goes into me formulating my answers.

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It's just a question of the magnitude and direction of the alteration of perception.

I can see that, but the amount of difference in magnitude between altering my perception enough to say, make me dread my drive home, and making me think less of myself is ginormous; and it's highly unlikely that anything anyone can say to me, before I have a chance to disengage from the conversation/argument/what-have-you is going to be enough to do the trick.

Yawn.

You forget where I work, Gas.

Well...I have my reason not to sleep now.

Gared said:

I'm not certain that anyone should read that link. At the risk of starting a philosophical discussion, is there really any purpose that a list like that serves, other than to remind us that there are "monsters" in this world?

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Those that forget history are doomed to repeat it.

On the one hand, we have that 12 year old girl who wrote that they're legends, or even immortal, now. So maybe we should forget them.

On the other hand, it's not a bad idea to remember that this world is not all candies and roses, and that people do bad things to each other, often for no good reason. Even kids.

Ten years ago, a group of 14 kids in Milwaukee beat a neighborhood man to death.

A little summary:

On September 29, 2002 a group of approximately fourteen teenagers hunted down and beat a Milwaukee man to death. The man, Charlie Young, Jr., had apparently knocked out the tooth of one of the teenagers earlier in the day. At one point Young had barricaded himself inside a home while the gang began tearing at the door and windows. The homeowner force Young out of the home and into the clutches of the gang.
The case was disturbing in that it clearly illustrated the vicious mentality of a new generation of street gangs. Most of the children involved in the beating came from dysfunctional homes. "Trash and shattered glass litter streets pocked with boarded-up houses," the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel wrote in an Oct. 2, 2002 article. "It is a battle zone where almost everyone you talk to needs more than one hand to count the murdered relatives and friends -- and blames police and society."
The incident was the first in a string of similar incidents. In one later incident a group of boys threw a man in from of a bus severely injuring him.

I had to deal with a handful of the kids who were involved in that beating. None of it fazes me. I have a copy of the associated article from the MJS to that incident ("Crime Gangs and Broken Homes play large part in boys' lives", if you want to Google it). AFAIK, the youth are still in the DOC, though they've probably moved on to Green Bay Correctional by now.

Bhamv, thanks but I'm inured to it. I've been working in Juvenile Corrections for 19 years now. Kids have been getting progressively worse and more violent. The girls aren't that great, either.

Yeah, we had a similar circumstance here in Seattle a few years back. Group of teens beat the hell out of a man, apparently just for the hell of it, and then robbed him. He died nine days later from injuries suffered during the beating. Threw the kids in juvie until they hit 18, and now they're back on the streets and (at least one of them) re-offending. And while it's not an everyday occurrence, the stories of gangs of kids (by which I mean groups, not recognized gangs like M13 or the Crips) singling someone out and beating the hell out of them because they're bored, or they didn't like the way the person looked at them or whatever, are far from rare.

My sister has volumes upon volumes of Serial Killer information on her bookshelves and Nook. Needless to say she shares her wealth of information with anyone who will listen, and even those who don't want to. I bring this up because of the topic of Albert Fish that was mentioned earlier. He's easily one of her favorites as she would often say -He was lucky to live in a time he could get away with the things he did-

I love my sister, I do, but as a father with children of my own (though I know she'd never harm a hair on their head) I fear for their safety, knowing there really are people like him and her out there and am very thankful that many are shyed away from actually acting on those impulses because of the level of technology and law we have in our world today. Many of the -high kill count- serial killers lived in times where they could continue to get away with heinous acts because there just wasn't enough information and technology in place to help stop them sooner.

It's rare that outside of 3rd world countries, a long line of serial killings will happen anymore and that does give me a breath of relief.

I wonder if Charlie would be against the death penalty in the Albert Fish situation. I'm a pretty staunch death penalty opponent and I can't even think of a great reason he shouldn't have been put down.

Frank said:

I wonder if Charlie would be against the death penalty in the Albert Fish situation. I'm a pretty staunch death penalty opponent and I can't even think of a great reason he shouldn't have been put down.

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He was against Bin Laden and Saddam's death penalty so I'm pretty sure he'd be against Albert Fish. I think his stance is -Zero Kill Tolerance-

Gilgamesh said:

He was against Bin Laden and Saddam's death penalty so I'm pretty sure he'd be against Albert Fish. I think his stance is -Zero Kill Tolerance-

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Because he's a moral coward, his precious ideals matter more to him than actual people do.

ThatGrinningIdiot! said:

Because he's a moral coward, his precious ideals matter more to him than actual people do.

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I think you can be against the death penalty without being a moral coward. The problem with executing serial killers is that it sets a precedent for, you know, executing people. For every case that you know "100% guilt" there are hundreds of similar cases you don't.

jwhouk said:

Yawn.

You forget where I work, Gas.

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Where you work? Shit, I can't even remember who you are.

Don't take it personal though.

Ravenpoe said:

I think you can be against the death penalty without being a moral coward. The problem with executing serial killers is that it sets a precedent for, you know, executing people. For every case that you know "100% guilt" there are hundreds of similar cases you don't.

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You've told me what I already know, and it's not the reason I called him a moral coward in the first place. I believe he is one because he espouses morals and ideals that are incompatible with human nature and were they put into practice wouldn't benefit anyone but him. He only states his lofty morals because he wants attention and praise for having them.

In other words, like those people who do volunteer work just so they can sneer "I do volunteer work" at other people.

<- Juvenile Corrections Officer, aka "Youth Counselor", at the only juvenile correctional facility in the state of Wisconsin.

Yeah... there is no way in HELL I would ever work Juvenile corrections... being censured for protecting one's self from physical violence or threats? And you can't EVER strike Momma's little darling? Fuck that noise... at least I can still enforce the law, outside the walls of RYDC...

You, sir, are a better man than I.

It's funny you should say that.

...Nah, better PM you about it.

jwhouk said:

<- Juvenile Corrections Officer, aka "Youth Counselor", at the only juvenile correctional facility in the state of Wisconsin.

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Now if you want me to remember that, you can't ever change your avatar again.

Oh, like you do?