What's your thoughts about America? Some think of the US as a hero that saves the day, some the World's police and some as a big bully. I think the US's bullied enough countries (China, Afghanistan, Syria, Russia, Egypt and countless others), and it should stop it's imperialism and I think it's an Empire of sort.
America or the US
- Thread starter Naiwen
- Start date
I can buy the argument that we have bullied some of those countries, but I don't see how we bully either Russia or China. To be a bully we would have to be in a position of power to leverage on them, and both are powerful enough to defy the US whenever they feel like it. Could you elaborate on how you see other large powers such as China and Russia as being bullied?
On the Tibet and Taiwan issues, as well as the Ukraine issue, the US constantly uses sanctions to bully them (Russia and China) into listening to America's orders, which is to let them independent and democratic countries (listening to the US's only).
...and yet Tibet is still under Chinese control, while Taiwan is under constant threat and cannot be recognized properly. In what way has China listened to America's order on those two issues? And how has the US bullied Russia in any way?
Not agreeing with what they do is not the same as bullying them.
Not agreeing with what they do is not the same as bullying them.
Oh yes, like the US didn't issue ultimatums in the Ukraine-Russia issue to pressurize Russia?
What ultimatum was issued in the Ukraine-Russia conflict?
"Hey, don't annex Crimea."
"Or what?"
"Orrrrr you'll see sanctions."
Putin annexes Crimea.
Obama unfriends Putin on Facebook.
"Hey, don't annex Crimea."
"Or what?"
"Orrrrr you'll see sanctions."
Putin annexes Crimea.
Obama unfriends Putin on Facebook.
For me, the US is the world' biggest bully, nothing else. Why can the US use sanctions against other countries then? Or why is it America's right to punish other countries? And the US never gets sanctions for invading others and bullying and oppressing others into democracy and submission?
And what right does the US have to bully other nations into submission and to invade other countries (like Afghanistan, Iraq) without ever getting any punishment for their crimes in the world? And why can the US have the whole world's resources and some other countries have nothing? I'm thinking about the poorer countries like Syria, Libya, Egypt... Pakistan, India...How is it any fair to others?
America isn't like some kind of single-faceted entity that reaches into the world and does stuff to further its agenda for its own glorification. How much easier would it be not to talk to Libya, or Crimea, or Russia, or China, or Taiwan, or Tibet? To wash their hands of the problems of other nations?
America is also its people: 'Oh, I don't mean I think Americans are bullies.' Just the people they vote for, right? My mother is an American, as is my whole family on that side. They're lovely. Of course there are some real asshole Americans, too. But that sentiment is not true because of America, it is true because some people are lovely and some people are assholes, and no people are exclusively lovely or exclusively assholes.
America is a phenomenal trading partner to Canada. Our relationship with them has been very beneficial to us both.
Why isn't Russia a bully for annexing two Georgian provinces in 2008? For forcing a revolt in Crimea when his puppet-ruler failed in Ukraine? Why is the US a bully for saying that Putin ought not to interfere in a sovereign nation's affairs, while Putin marches in with the army and shrugs off the deaths and evictions of citizens who aren't ethnically Russian?
America is also its people: 'Oh, I don't mean I think Americans are bullies.' Just the people they vote for, right? My mother is an American, as is my whole family on that side. They're lovely. Of course there are some real asshole Americans, too. But that sentiment is not true because of America, it is true because some people are lovely and some people are assholes, and no people are exclusively lovely or exclusively assholes.
America is a phenomenal trading partner to Canada. Our relationship with them has been very beneficial to us both.
Why isn't Russia a bully for annexing two Georgian provinces in 2008? For forcing a revolt in Crimea when his puppet-ruler failed in Ukraine? Why is the US a bully for saying that Putin ought not to interfere in a sovereign nation's affairs, while Putin marches in with the army and shrugs off the deaths and evictions of citizens who aren't ethnically Russian?
And no, don't lock the thread just because we disagree on something. I intend to speak fully my mind about the US's taking up others' resources, like the Mid-East's oil and etc...
Oh, other countries (like Russia) cannot protect their own interests can they? Only America can? Lol.
No, America needs to stop meddling in other countries' internal affairs.
Oh, other countries (like Russia) cannot protect their own interests can they? Only America can? Lol.
No, America needs to stop meddling in other countries' internal affairs.
I'm curious what your understanding of punishment by/to the US is. How does the US have all the world's resources while others have none? How is this true of the US and not Canada, or England, or France, or Germany, or Russia, or China, or Japan, or Brazil?
US is the one the world's richest country and one that wastes the most on important resources like water, gas and oil. And a country that steals from other countries' resources (here I'n referring to the Mid-East oil reserve).
I guess I'm saying that Russia is not protecting its own interests when it invades a sovereign country.
Your argument seems to be that because the US has done bad things in the past, it cannot point out bad things that others do. If I were married, and cheated, I would still be correct in saying "It is wrong to cheat on your wife," to my friend. Being guilty does not make you blind.[DOUBLEPOST=1395355267,1395355166][/DOUBLEPOST]
How is it stolen? Do you mean they don't pay for the oil they get from the middle east?
Well, you and I don't agree. The US has no right to tell what other people or countries should do, and to be on a high horse, while having committed the same crimes than some other countries did (Afghanistan, Syria, Egypt, Iran-Iraq, North-Korea, Japan).
GasBandit
Staff member
The US is the last global superpower on the side of liberty and western civilization, slowly sliding out of that superpower status. China, Russia and such are despotic, dystopian, totalitarian states where life is cheap and corruption and decay reign both politically and physically. As others have pointed out, America "bullies" Russia and China the same way a security guard "bullies" vandals and shoplifters. Your next question is, "so who made the US the world's security guard?" The world did. Whenever there's a crisis or natural disaster anywhere in the world, what's the first thing a local screams into the first TV camera they can find? Is it "Where is Russia?" Is it "Where is China?" No, it's "Where is America? Save us!"
And like it or not, America was not the lone country to go into Iraq, either time.
And like it or not, America was not the lone country to go into Iraq, either time.
Lol, dream on, the world hates the US's meddling. Here's exactly why the Muslisms have attacked the US (I'm referring to the (9/11 attacks), because they got fed up with
the US's interfering with their internal affairs and bullying their countries (the Mid-East). So they stood up to the US.
I'm pretty surprised you think it's at all that simple. I don't disagree that the US's economic reach was a factor, and is resented in many places, but it's not one or the other. And what is "The US"? How long has "The US" been doing this? Because it is run by people, and people who change jobs over decades.
Because it's run by presidents who want to be World Leaders and who are on a high horse, that's why it's such a bully to other smaller nations. But who gave the US the right to bully other smaller or poorer countries into democracy? And who gave the US the right to tell people what to do when it has it's own problems?
Okay, but Russia is not a small or poor nation, and Russia is telling Ukraine what to do with Crimea. Why is that acceptable? What nations are allowed to say that it is wrong?
Yes, because Crimea once belonged to Russia, so it's protecting it's own interests, just like America is. I love the hypocrisy in this thread. And because Russia is only protecting what's theirs. And America isn't.
So America alone is right and can tell others what to do, yes? And has the right to meddle in others' affairs? And when it's America that does it, it's called protecting it's own interests, but when other countries are only protecting what's theirs it's called "telling others what to do?", right?
GasBandit
Staff member
Of course they do. Right up until they want us to meddle again. This crimean crisis is the latest perfect example. Everybody's eyes turned immediately to the US to see what we were going to do about Russia invading another sovereign nation on the flimsiest of pretexts.
No, they attack the US because the US supports Israel and has been the muslim world's scapegoat for why their lives are horrible and they're destined to live their short life in either turmoil or staring at livestock until they wander onto a (usually Russian) landmine one day. Demonizing the west, and particularly the United States, is just part and parcel of their never-ending recruitment drive for ununiformed combatants in their never-ending medieval religious war. And frankly, the organizers of the 9/11 attacks were perfectly willing to accept American help when they were fighting the Russians in Afghanistan.
Dream on, you America worshipper. No one likes America's meddling nor wants it. In fact, they got sick of America's interfering in the Middle-East, that's why they decided to bomb the US.Of course they do. Right up until they want us to meddle again. This crimean crisis is the latest perfect example. Everybody's eyes turned immediately to the US to see what we were going to do about Russia invading another sovereign nation on the flimsiest of pretexts.
No, they attack the US because the US supports Israel and has been the muslim world's scapegoat for why their lives are horrible and they're destined to live their short life in either turmoil or staring at livestock until they wander onto a (usually Russian) landmine one day. Demonizing the west, and particularly the United States, is just part and parcel of their never-ending recruitment drive for ununiformed combatants in their never-ending medieval religious war. And frankly, the organizers of the 9/11 attacks were perfectly willing to accept American help when they were fighting the Russians in Afghanistan.
Speaking of hypocrisy....
So how do you justify getting on a high horse about how rich America is? The fact that you can get on the internet and post about it means I'm willing to bet you're pretty high up there is wealth as far as the entire world's population is concerned. Ever heard the (admittedly unsourced) saying "If you have food in your fridge, clothes on your back, a roof over your head and a place to sleep you are richer than 75% of the world". Check out this site and see how you rate before complaining about how rich others are.
GasBandit
Staff member
It's been over 100 years since crimea belonged to russia, and they were the ones to cede as part of Ukraine in the first place (as an underhanded trick to get another UN vote, incidentally, since Ukraine was a puppet nation until relatively recently). By your logic, it would be acceptable for Mexico to invade the US and claim everything from Texas to Oregon.[DOUBLEPOST=1395356420,1395356390][/DOUBLEPOST]
Ok, NOW we can lock the thread. This preadolescent needs to go.
Yes, since it originally belonged to the Natives. And Texas is a stolen land from the Native Americans. And they have more right to be on that land, than White American, and it is rightfully theirs. And no, you can't lock it because we disagree. You're more childish than me.
And in fact, the whole of the US is a stolen land from the Natives? Why don't the American White get any punishment for having stolen lands from the Natives?
http://onion.com/1r1l8TV So this is The Onion, but it still kind of makes the point of why it is silly to call the US a bully as far as Crimea goes.
I have never said that America is right, or is alone in being right. In fact, I asked what other countries can be right. America makes mistakes, and will make more. America has intentionally committed acts against popular will, and even against international law. I would not say otherwise. This does not mean that America is only a country which makes mistakes and commits actions that are selfish or harmful.
And this is not an issue of simple right-or-wrong, good-and-evil, either; I don't think America's foreign policy is "right" per se, but better than Russia's, certainly.
GasBandit
Staff member
You're the one who started namecalling and making fallacious ad-hominem attacks. You want to stick to debating ideas, then do it.
Furthermore, Texas was a soveriegn nation before being (voluntarily) annexed by the US. I think you need to spend more time with your nose in your history books.
that's not name-calling, that's describing you as who you are: a US worshipper.
How reductionist do you go, then? Should we all just head on back to Africa, where we think homo sapiens originated? We cannot have any other space, because we were only in one place first.
GasBandit
Staff member
That is the very definition of name calling. You are calling me a name without actually addressing my point.
Yeah, what I hate about the US is that it acts as if it hasn't committed any crimes against humanity, when it almost wiped out an entire race and always targets China, Russia or the Mid-East and other countries for the killing of innocent native.