[Comics] And The Joker Killed.....

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sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

Jason Todd, in the Tent, with a lead pipe.

It should come full circle.[DOUBLEPOST=1360612874][/DOUBLEPOST]And because it was a fucking cheap trick to bring him back in the first place.
 
phil

phil

The joker finds a time machine and kills Jason Todd after sending him back to be batman's dad.
 
Gilgamesh

Gilgamesh

Gryfter said:
Does it really matter as whoever dies will just return to life once the sales slump again.
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That's just it, if it's Alfred, I don't think we'll see a ressurection of him in this continuity. It's not like a Super-Hero death, then again non-superheroes tend to pop back up from the dead too thanks to cloning.
 
Dave

Dave

Staff member
I'm always amazed that nobody has killed these people before. Looking at the kinds of stuff Batman has, it's not a huge leap to know who he really is.
 
Frank

Frank

Gilgamesh said:
That's just it, if it's Alfred, I don't think we'll see a ressurection of him in this continuity. It's not like a Super-Hero death, then again non-superheroes tend to pop back up from the dead too thanks to cloning.
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If Aunt May can die and be resurrected, so can Alfred. Aunt May is the Kenny of comics.
 
Bowielee

Bowielee

They don't really have as many supporting characters as Marvel does, usually, either. My major distinction between Marvel and DC throughout the years have been that DC is about super-heroes as iconic heroes and Marvel is about super-heroes as people. Consequently, they tend to have more supporting characters (many of whom have stayed dead, for example Captain Stacy, Jean DeWolfe, Moira McTaggart).[DOUBLEPOST=1360618086][/DOUBLEPOST]
figmentPez said:
So, Metallo is the new Hank Henshaw?
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Underworld Unleashed happened around the same time that it was revealed who the Cyborg Superman was, so they kind of run parallel. A lot of the villain power ups stuck. Of course, that's all moot now with the relaunch.

Also, Killer Moth was a much more formidible opponent when he became an ACTUAL giant killer moth.
 
ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Not to mention Chuck Dixon used the super-smart Blockbuster perfectly in his run on Nightwing, making him the Kingpin to Nightwing's Daredevil.

Also, I wouldn't say Spidey's deal with Mephisto is the same as Underworld Unleashed. DC, at least, understood that there are huge ramifications when dealing with the devil rather than just saying "Oh, it's magic. We don't need to explain it." (Seriously, Joe Quesada is actually quoted saying that). I recall there was a great story arc with Flash's Rogue Gallery after Neron wiped them out.
 
Bowielee

Bowielee

Spidey's deal with Mephisto has no bearing on the point I was replying to, in relation to bringing back minor characters. Aunt Mae never actually died in OMD. She was in the PROCESS of dying and was mainly just the mcguffin to get Peter to make the deal. Aunt Mae was extremely periphreal to the main reason it was done, which was to wipe out Spidey's unmasking and remove the marriage to MJ. Basically, she wasn't killed off as an event to sell comics, it was just part of the story. It could just as much have been her being banished to another dimension or any other trite reason to make Peter make the deal with Mephisto.

Now, if we're talking support characters dying that came back through stupid ass/comic book logic/magic/clone body/never actually happened/whatever, there are probably just as many examples on the DC universe as in the Marvel universe.
 
Gilgamesh

Gilgamesh

Bowielee said:
Now, if we're talking support characters dying that came back through stupid ass/comic book logic/magic/clone body/never actually happened/whatever, there are probably just as many examples on the DC universe as in the Marvel universe.
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Just going to disagree with you there. It's definitely used way more often as BIG SURPRISE CHANGES EVERYTHING then retconned within 5-10 issues on Marvel's side. Hell look at Aunt May or Capt America. Now compare that to Jason Todd or Oracle's spinal shot.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I'm saying the death of Alfred is something way more comic book world shattering than Aunt May or just about anyone who's died on Marvel's side.
 
Bowielee

Bowielee

Hey, speaking of which... With the reboot, what's the status of Elastic Man and Sue Dibney? They still dead or did the whole Jean Lorring killing her thing never happen?[DOUBLEPOST=1360638534][/DOUBLEPOST]
Gilgamesh said:
Just going to disagree with you there. It's definitely used way more often as BIG SURPRISE CHANGES EVERYTHING then retconned within 5-10 issues on Marvel's side. Hell look at Aunt May or Capt America. Now compare that to Jason Todd or Oracle's spinal shot.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I'm saying the death of Alfred is something way more comic book world shattering than Aunt May or just about anyone who's died on Marvel's side.
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Actually, until you brought up the deals with devils/gods thing, my response was going to be that up to about 10 years ago, I would have agreed that at least DC stayed consistent with keeping characters dead for the most part. But then they started bringing everyone and their brother back from the dead. Barry Allen, Hal Jordan, Supergirl etc... and they seem to be coming back from the dead faster and faster nowadays. Hell, Superboy was dead for, what, 2 months?[DOUBLEPOST=1360638696][/DOUBLEPOST]

I'd also refer you to the Death of Superman and Breaking of Batman to refute that one.
 
Gilgamesh

Gilgamesh

Bowielee said:
Hey, speaking of which... With the reboot, what's the status of Elastic Man and Sue Dibney? They still dead or did the whole Jean Lorring killing her thing never happen?[DOUBLEPOST=1360638534][/DOUBLEPOST]

Actually, until you brought up the deals with devils/gods thing, my response was going to be that up to about 10 years ago, I would have agreed that at least DC stayed consistent with keeping characters dead for the most part. But then they started bringing everyone and their brother back from the dead. Barry Allen, Hal Jordan, Supergirl etc... and they seem to be coming back from the dead faster and faster nowadays. Hell, Superboy was dead for, what, 2 months?[DOUBLEPOST=1360638696][/DOUBLEPOST]

I'd also refer you to the Death of Superman and Breaking of Batman to refute that one.
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Everyone you named was a Super Hero. Which isn't my original point.
 
Bowielee

Bowielee

Gilgamesh said:
To counter the point made, but not the original one.
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No, you brought up Batgirl and Robin of examples of characters that were changed for extended periods and compared them to Aunt May and Cpt. America in terms of staying dead. You're making a false equivalency.
 
Gilgamesh

Gilgamesh

I guess Alfred dying would mean shit, he'll be back in a few issues. What a stupid idea for DC to come up with. My bad.
 
Bowielee

Bowielee

Gilgamesh said:
I guess Alfred dying would mean shit, he'll be back in a few issues. What a stupid idea for DC to come up with. My bad.
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My point in saying that "yes, in the past DC was consistent with keeping characters dead" is that this is no longer the case, like, at all. If they kill him off, it will to be sell books and bringing him back will be to do the same.[DOUBLEPOST=1360639781][/DOUBLEPOST]
Gilgamesh said:
Yep, what a pointless event. Why bother killing anyone, means nothing.
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That's kind of what almost every comic book fan realized about 10 years ago. Welcome to the cynic party.
 
Gilgamesh

Gilgamesh

Bowielee said:
My point in saying that "yes, in the past DC was consistent with keeping characters dead" is that this is no longer the case, like, at all. If they kill him off, it will to be sell books and bringing him back will be to do the same.[DOUBLEPOST=1360639781][/DOUBLEPOST]

That's kind of what almost every comic book fan realized about 10 years ago. Welcome to the cynic party.
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I was being sarcastic. Cynicism is a choice.
 
Frank

Frank

Panel 1: A shadowy figure appears in the doorway. Wind blows rain inside the room.

Panel 2: A shocked Bruce Wayne recoils

Panel 3: Close up of the shadowy figure.
Shadowy Figure: I had to Master Bruce.

Panel 4: Shadowy Figure is revealed to be none other than thought dead trusty butler Alfred.
Alfred: You needed something to push you more than ever against him.
 
Bowielee

Bowielee

lol, you just spent the last page doing just that. You can be cynical about what will happen in the future and still enjoy things. I've just come to accept that storylines in comics are to be enjoyed as they come as individual story arcs. I don't care of things get undone or people are reborn, as long as the writing is quality, I don't care.[DOUBLEPOST=1360640117][/DOUBLEPOST]Now will someone answer my Elongated Man question :p
 
Gilgamesh

Gilgamesh

Bowielee said:
lol, you just spent the last page doing just that. You can be cynical about what will happen in the future and still enjoy things. I've just come to accept that storylines in comics are to be enjoyed as they come as individual story arcs. I don't care of things get undone or people are reborn, as long as the writing is quality, I don't care.
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It seems you do care, or you wouldnt' be cynical. Also I didn't dissect anything, I defended against a cynical point with little to no factual backing.
 
ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Your example of Captain America doesn't quite work, Gilg. He managed to have the fortitude to stay dead for at least two years.

Also, DC had Jason Todd come back because Superboy Prime punched the walls of reality.

Honestly, it's a silly argument because you could name great examples of stories of death & resurrection (Superman, Captain America) and not so great examples (Jason Todd, Sue Dibny).

Also, Aunt May's been dead I think at least twice. Certainly once during the Clone Saga.
 
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