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Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther State

Apr 21, 2010#1

SpecialKO

Arizona legislature passes bill that would require Obama to provide his birth certificate to appear on the next election ballot.

I'm trying to give Arizona the benefit of the doubt here.

They could be just trying to set the whole thing to rest so crazies in AZ stop calling them about this.

On the other hand, they could also be doing so when Obama sends them his Hawaii certification of live birth, they can throw up their hands, sigh, and say, "sorry, can't do it!"

On the third hand, it's not like Obama was going to win Arizona anyway....

:noidea:

Apr 21, 2010#2

Dave

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

The more this is said the more that stupid people will buy it. They know that and no matter what they say this is their aim. It's fucking stupid.

Apr 21, 2010#3

AshburnerX

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

I'm pretty sure this is illegal.

Apr 21, 2010#4

Espy

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

I don't understand, I thought he had made his BC available? Is it not available to the public or press?

Apr 21, 2010#5

Bowielee

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

You know what makes me laugh, if the governerator were to ever try to run for president, these birthers would probably be the first ones to say that the "have to be born a US citizen" thing is outdated.

Apr 21, 2010#6

sixpackshaker

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

The sheeples still believe the BIG LIE. The bigger the better.

Apr 21, 2010#7

SpecialKO

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

Espy said:
I don't understand, I thought he had made his BC available? Is it not available to the public or press?

You know, they want his "real" one, if you know what I mean (I don't).

Apr 21, 2010#8

David

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

It's because the one available is shopped. You can tell from some of the pixels and from having seen quite a few shops in your time.

Apr 21, 2010#9

Baerdog

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

Sometimes my state really sucks. It seems like lately its been sucking extra hard.

Apr 21, 2010#10

Covar

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

AshburnerX said:
I'm pretty sure this is illegal.

It is not. The bill does not target an individual.

It would require U.S. presidential candidates who want to appear on the ballot in Arizona to submit documents proving they meet the constitutional requirements to be president.

Frankly I'm rather shocked that this is not already in place in all 50 states. You would think MAKING SURE YOU'RE ELIGIBLE would be required before putting ones name on the ballot.

Apr 21, 2010#11

Krisken

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

Baerdog said:
Sometimes my state really sucks. It seems like lately its been sucking extra hard.

Sorry Baer. You'll just have to mention it to the authorities when they stop you and ask for your citizenship papers.

Apr 21, 2010#12

phil

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

Espy said:
I don't understand, I thought he had made his BC available? Is it not available to the public or press?

http://images.google.com/images?um=...the+fucking+birth+certificate&spell=1&start=0

Apr 21, 2010#13

Baerdog

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

Krisken;374448][QUOTE=Baerdog said:
Sometimes my state really sucks. It seems like lately its been sucking extra hard.

Sorry Baer. You'll just have to mention it to the authorities when they stop you and ask for your citizenship papers.[/QUOTE]
I still don't even know what's going to qualify as "citizenship papers." Am I going to have to carry my fucking birth certificate around in my wallet or something?

Apr 21, 2010#14

GasBandit

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

phil;374455][QUOTE=Espy said:
I don't understand, I thought he had made his BC available? Is it not available to the public or press?

http://images.google.com/images?um=...the+fucking+birth+certificate&spell=1&start=0[/QUOTE]

I'm not a birther, but a photograph on the internet of a birth certificate is pretty easy to fudge. After all...

Apr 21, 2010#15

crono1224

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

GasBandit;374480][QUOTE=phil;374455][QUOTE=Espy said:
I don't understand, I thought he had made his BC available? Is it not available to the public or press?

. I'm not saying he is a Muslim extremist but isn't it interesting that his middle name is Hussein.

Apr 21, 2010#16

GasBandit

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

crono1224;374544][QUOTE=GasBandit;374480][QUOTE=phil;374455][QUOTE=Espy said:
I don't understand, I thought he had made his BC available? Is it not available to the public or press?

. I'm not saying he is a Muslim extremist but isn't it interesting that his middle name is Hussein.[/QUOTE] Well, the link he provided was a google image search for "here is the fucking birth certificate." The verbiage of that would seem to assert that this was decisive and indisputable proof of such. I'm merely pointing out that it isn't, any more than the photographs on the internet of "Barack Obama's KENYAN Birth Certificate" are proof he was born in Kenya.

Apr 21, 2010#17

Soliloquy

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

GasBandit;374558][QUOTE=crono1224;374544][QUOTE=GasBandit;374480][QUOTE=phil;374455][QUOTE=Espy said:
I don't understand, I thought he had made his BC available? Is it not available to the public or press?

Apr 21, 2010#18

Krisken

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

GasBandit;374558][QUOTE=crono1224;374544][QUOTE=GasBandit;374480][QUOTE=phil;374455][QUOTE=Espy said:
I don't understand, I thought he had made his BC available? Is it not available to the public or press?

Apr 21, 2010#19

crono1224

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

GasBandit;374558][QUOTE=crono1224;374544][QUOTE=GasBandit;374480][QUOTE=phil;374455][QUOTE=Espy said:
I don't understand, I thought he had made his BC available? Is it not available to the public or press?

Apr 21, 2010#20

Baerdog

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

He's not saying that the pics were doctored, but isn't it interesting...

Apr 21, 2010#21

GasBandit

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

Soliloquy said:
This page is a little more convincing.

See, now that's a little better.

Now stop being a birther, you friggin' birther.

NEVAR HE'S A SPACE ALIEN ELONGATED MIDGET MARTIAN VENUSIAN FROM JUPITER AND YUO CANT DISPROVE IT

Krisken said:
The fuck you looking for? A mailed copy to your home?

*I* don't need anything. I don't think he wasn't born in Hawaii. I think the "birther" movement is a dead end. I was just pointing out that the forcefully conclusive link... wasn't so much.

crono1224 said:
So what you are saying is because anything can be doctored pictures can't be trusted?

I photoshopped my own driver's license when I was 19 to buy booze. It never failed me, be it pub, liquor store, or strip joint. This was before they started swiping the magnetic strip to check though. Might have been more convincing because this was also back when color laser printers (which we had one where I worked) cost upwards of $10k or more.

Apr 21, 2010#22

crono1224

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

GasBandit said:
crono1224 said:

So what you are saying is because anything can be doctored pictures can't be trusted?

Click to expand...

I photoshopped my own driver's license when I was 19 to buy booze. It never failed me, be it pub, liquor store, or strip joint. This was before they started swiping the magnetic strip to check though. Might have been more convincing because this was also back when color laser printers (which we had one where I worked) cost upwards of $10k or more.

Also helps you live in Texas. Though I don't get your point? are you saying that because you faked it nothing can be real?

Apr 21, 2010#23

Soliloquy

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

I think what he's saying is that there's the potential justification to consider anything fake, which is what conspiracy theorists always pounce on, no matter how much information there is to the contrary.

Apr 22, 2010#24

GasBandit

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

crono1224;374619][QUOTE=GasBandit said:
crono1224 said:

So what you are saying is because anything can be doctored pictures can't be trusted?

Click to expand...

I photoshopped my own driver's license when I was 19 to buy booze. It never failed me, be it pub, liquor store, or strip joint. This was before they started swiping the magnetic strip to check though. Might have been more convincing because this was also back when color laser printers (which we had one where I worked) cost upwards of $10k or more.

Also helps you live in Texas. Though I don't get your point? are you saying that because you faked it nothing can be real?[/QUOTE]

1) You know very little about Texas. As I often say, there's no bureaucrat like a Texas bureaucrat. You're implying Texas is lax with who they sell liquor to. You're wrong. Heck, a couple years ago, there was a bit of fuss because state troopers went into a hotel bar and started arresting people IN the bar because they MIGHT drive home afterwards... even the ones who had reserved rooms at the hotel.

2) It's moot anyway, at the time I was living in Colorado, not Texas. This may shock you, but I've actually lived in many places around the US. Comes from a military family.

My point is, an expletive-laden google image search does not ironclad evidence make. After all, that very same search link also showed copies of "kenyan" obama birth certificates. Soliloquy's link was much better.

Soliloquy said:
I think what he's saying is that there's the potential justification to consider anything fake, which is what conspiracy theorists always pounce on, no matter how much information there is to the contrary.

No, my point is that a digital image on the internet, provided without reference or corroborating testimonial, is unacceptable as proof in an argument. I don't know why everybody thinks I'm this blind, frothing birther when I've said three times I'm not. I think you guys are trying harder for an argument than I ever do.

Apr 22, 2010#25

MindDetective

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

GasBandit said:
No, my point is that a digital image on the internet, provided without reference or corroborating testimonial, is unacceptable as proof in an argument.

But it IS evidence, just insufficient on its own. You can't discount it entirely simply because it is incomplete evidence.

Apr 22, 2010#26

GasBandit

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

MindDetective;374897][QUOTE=GasBandit said:
No, my point is that a digital image on the internet, provided without reference or corroborating testimonial, is unacceptable as proof in an argument.

But it IS evidence, just insufficient on its own. You can't discount it entirely simply because it is incomplete evidence.[/QUOTE]

Evidence about on par with this evidence -

Apr 22, 2010#27

Espy

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

Here is the real question: How is the citizenship of a president normally proved? I assume that before one becomes president you have to show you meet all the requirements the constitution puts forth correct? How is that done? Do all presidents turn over copies of their BC to someone or something?

Apr 22, 2010#28

Krisken

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

GasBandit;374910][QUOTE=MindDetective;374897][QUOTE=GasBandit said:
No, my point is that a digital image on the internet, provided without reference or corroborating testimonial, is unacceptable as proof in an argument.

But it IS evidence, just insufficient on its own. You can't discount it entirely simply because it is incomplete evidence.[/QUOTE]

Evidence about on par with this evidence -

To quote phil, here's "the fucking birth certificate." You can't discount it entirely, right?

Case closed? Of course not.

Somebody with no grasp of what's going on accusing me of asserting Obama was born in Kenya in 5.. 4... 3...[/QUOTE]
I'm not accusing you of being a birther. You are being intentionally obtuse. You can assert, beyond a reasonable doubt, that his birth certificate has been supplied and it is indeed the one posted describing Obama as being born in Hawaii.

However, because you want to make waves and play devils advocate in the interest of getting people riled up, you continue making up your own definitions for words and treat everything that doesn't support the narrative you wish to put out there as inconclusive and doubtful. At the same time you'll like to opinion pieces and claim them to be fact, even when they don't have sources or links to where they received their information.

So no, you aren't a birther. You're the Fox News of the forum.

Apr 22, 2010#29

GasBandit

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

Krisken;374914][QUOTE=GasBandit said:
Somebody with no grasp of what's going on accusing me of asserting Obama was born in Kenya in 5.. 4... 3...

I'm not accusing you of being a birther. You are being intentionally obtuse. You can assert, beyond a reasonable doubt, that his birth certificate has been supplied and it is indeed the one posted describing Obama as being born in Hawaii. [/quote] I can assert that, but NOT BASED ON THIS POST. Based on a lot of other things.

However, because you want to make waves and play devils advocate in the interest of getting people riled up, you continue making up your own definitions for words and treat everything that doesn't support the narrative you wish to put out there as inconclusive and doubtful. At the same time you'll like to opinion pieces and claim them to be fact, even when they don't have sources or links to where they received their information.

Actually, I link opinion pieces (in other threads) and claim them to be argument. Which has nothing to do with this thread, fallaciously enough. Every link I have provided in this thread was explicitly linked to an example of bad internet "evidence." But when you start making arguments that "your position in this thread is wrong because I disagree with you and/or your methods in another thread," you've already lost.

So no, you aren't a birther. You're the Fox News of the forum.

Then you must be the MSNBC. Sorry about that, man. I know it's rough to suck so bad.

Apr 22, 2010#30

Krisken

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

GasBandit;374919][QUOTE=Krisken;374914][QUOTE=GasBandit said:
Somebody with no grasp of what's going on accusing me of asserting Obama was born in Kenya in 5.. 4... 3...

I'm not accusing you of being a birther. You are being intentionally obtuse. You can assert, beyond a reasonable doubt, that his birth certificate has been supplied and it is indeed the one posted describing Obama as being born in Hawaii. [/QUOTE] I can assert that, but NOT BASED ON THIS POST. Based on a lot of other things.

However, because you want to make waves and play devils advocate in the interest of getting people riled up, you continue making up your own definitions for words and treat everything that doesn't support the narrative you wish to put out there as inconclusive and doubtful. At the same time you'll like to opinion pieces and claim them to be fact, even when they don't have sources or links to where they received their information.

So no, you aren't a birther. You're the Fox News of the forum.

Then you must be the MSNBC. Sorry about that, man. I know it's rough to suck so bad.

[/QUOTE]
That's the best you've got? Yeesh. You need to get back into practice. Your month off has really hurt ya.

Besides, I'm more a late night talk show host. I find one of your ridiculous stories and then make fun of it. I hardly take a slew of news items , throw them into a forum, and see which ones cause the most damage. That's your job.

Apr 22, 2010#31

JONJONAUG

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

Transcript of a CNN interview on the matter

It's pretty hilarious. Video for people who hate reading.

COOPER: You -- you also said to our producer that the president identified himself as a foreigner on his college application.

ASH: Yes.

COOPER: You know that's not true, right?

ASH: I didn't know that that was not true.

COOPER: That's a story that was put out on April Fool's Day. It's a fake AP news story.

COOPER: So, where was George Bush born?

ASH: I have no idea where George Bush was born.

COOPER: But you -- that wasn't a concern for you when he was in office?

ASH: The issue never came up.

COOPER: What about Bill Clinton? Where was he born?

ASH: I have no idea.

COOPER: So, all of a sudden, you're concerned about where the president of the United States is born, based on calls you're getting from constituents who are misinformed?

ASH: Actually, I did not get any calls from constituents until after this bill was passed.

Apr 22, 2010#32

GasBandit

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

Krisken said:
Besides, I'm more a late night talk show host. I find one of your ridiculous stories and then make fun of it. I hardly take a slew of news items , throw them into a forum, and see which ones cause the most damage. That's your job.

If you're more like a late night host, I'm more like a chinese jet pilot.

Apr 22, 2010#33

Krisken

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

GasBandit;374995][QUOTE=Krisken said:
Besides, I'm more a late night talk show host. I find one of your ridiculous stories and then make fun of it. I hardly take a slew of news items , throw them into a forum, and see which ones cause the most damage. That's your job.

If you're more like a late night host, I'm more like a chinese jet pilot.[/QUOTE]
See? You're borrowing from 1992!

I tell ya what. I'll just stop responding to you for, oh, a month. That will give you some time to get back in this decade with your come-backs.

Apr 22, 2010#34

MindDetective

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

GasBandit;374910][QUOTE=MindDetective;374897][QUOTE=GasBandit said:
No, my point is that a digital image on the internet, provided without reference or corroborating testimonial, is unacceptable as proof in an argument.

But it IS evidence, just insufficient on its own. You can't discount it entirely simply because it is incomplete evidence.[/QUOTE]

Evidence about on par with this evidence -

To quote phil, here's "the fucking birth certificate." You can't discount it entirely, right?

Case closed? Of course not.

Somebody with no grasp of what's going on accusing me of asserting Obama was born in Kenya in 5.. 4... 3...[/QUOTE]

I don't think you can say ALL evidence is equal. Some sources will be more persuasive than others. I'm not saying that any of the sources in this thread qualify, just that the evidence has to be weighted based upon the relevant information, such as the source (among other things.)

Apr 22, 2010#35

GasBandit

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

Krisken said:
See? You're borrowing from 1992!

I tell ya what. I'll just stop responding to you for, oh, a month. That will give you some time to get back in this decade with your come-backs.

The classics never go out of style, wisenheimer.

Apr 22, 2010#36

crono1224

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

GasBandit said:
1) You know very little about Texas. As I often say, there's no bureaucrat like a Texas bureaucrat. You're implying Texas is lax with who they sell liquor to. You're wrong. Heck, a couple years ago, there was a bit of fuss because state troopers went into a hotel bar and started arresting people IN the bar because they MIGHT drive home afterwards... even the ones who had reserved rooms at the hotel.

Apr 22, 2010#37

GasBandit

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

crono1224;375066][QUOTE=GasBandit said:
1) You know very little about Texas. As I often say, there's no bureaucrat like a Texas bureaucrat. You're implying Texas is lax with who they sell liquor to. You're wrong. Heck, a couple years ago, there was a bit of fuss because state troopers went into a hotel bar and started arresting people IN the bar because they MIGHT drive home afterwards... even the ones who had reserved rooms at the hotel.

This I find hilarious, I only make that statement cause I know how much you care about the crappy state of Texas. But the fact you point out some random incident of a over zealous police officer =/= the whole state being super tough on alcohol. Course that goes well in a thread where you are complaining about the use of evidence in proving something.[/QUOTE] You're right, it was anecdotal evidence, but it wasn't a single "zealous police officer," it was a large number of them working together. Texas DPS and TABC have a history bordering on notorious for this sort of thing. You want evidence?

See we have these guys called "TABC." They're a special gestapo who's got nothing better to do than hang out in bars and liquor stores arresting people for booze related charges.
If a bartender sells liquor to somebody already drunk, they arrest and kick the shit out of everybody in sight.
Or they'll just shoot you 16 times and tell everybody it was justified.
And you'll fix their damn sinks right or their boss will kick the shit out of you under official auspices.

There's no bureaucrat like a Texas bureaucrat.

Apr 23, 2010#38

Green_Lantern

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

GasBandit;375078][QUOTE=crono1224;375066][QUOTE=GasBandit said:
1) You know very little about Texas. As I often say, there's no bureaucrat like a Texas bureaucrat. You're implying Texas is lax with who they sell liquor to. You're wrong. Heck, a couple years ago, there was a bit of fuss because state troopers went into a hotel bar and started arresting people IN the bar because they MIGHT drive home afterwards... even the ones who had reserved rooms at the hotel.

Apr 23, 2010#39

GasBandit

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

Green_Lantern;375358][QUOTE=GasBandit said:
There's no bureaucrat like a Texas bureaucrat.

God Bless America[/QUOTE]

This one's uniquely Texan. Never had this problem in Colorado. Or New Mexico. Or Maryland, for that matter.

I think one of the reasons most Texans are so staunchly against increases in government power is because they see the end results of it right here in their own back yard.

Apr 23, 2010#40

Enresshou

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

No, you're all wrong. Here's the real birth certificate:

Apr 23, 2010#41

Soliloquy

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

Ye gods, I love that one.

Apr 23, 2010#42

Krisken

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

And that crazy bill has been signed into law

So, if you look somewhat foreign, or not Caucasian or African descent, don't forget your papers, or you may be locked up.

Apr 23, 2010#43

GasBandit

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

Krisken said:
And that crazy bill has been signed into law

So, if you look somewhat foreign, or not Caucasian or African descent, don't forget your papers, or you may be locked up.

This'll be an interesting constitutional crisis.

Apr 23, 2010#44

Krisken

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

GasBandit;375590][QUOTE=Krisken said:
And that crazy bill has been signed into law

So, if you look somewhat foreign, or not Caucasian or African descent, don't forget your papers, or you may be locked up.

This'll be an interesting constitutional crisis.[/QUOTE]
Yup. I can't wait to hear about how the civil courts are bogged down with these cases. It will be epic.

Apr 23, 2010#45

Soliloquy

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

Sweet! We get to re-live all those scenes from World War 2 movies!

Arizona police are going to have to work on their German accents, though.

"Papers, Please."

Apr 23, 2010#46

DarkAudit

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

An AZ Congressman has called for a boycott of his own state over this new law.

The law gives the officer "discretion" over who they can request documentation from. That means whenever he damn well feels like it. So really anyone's fair game.

Apr 23, 2010#47

Espy

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

Go-go tax dollars at work!

Apr 23, 2010#48

ThatGrinningIdiot!

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

When I visit America, I'll be sure that Arizona is a state I stay far away from.

Apr 23, 2010#49

GasBandit

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

Grats Arizona... you've displaced Texas as "The State that Most Scares Foreigners." :lol:

Apr 23, 2010#50

ThatGrinningIdiot!

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

GasBandit said:
Grats Arizona... you've displaced Texas as "The State that Most Scares Foreigners." :lol:

Yeah, trying to tell any Native American where he can and cannot go is a sure cause for insurgency.

Apr 24, 2010#51

David

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

According to people I know who've been to Arizona, some parts of it like to believe that they ARE part of Texas.

Apr 24, 2010#52

JONJONAUG

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

DarkAudit said:
An AZ Congressman has called for a boycott of his own state over this new law.

The law gives the officer \"discretion\" over who they can request documentation from. That means whenever he damn well feels like it. So really anyone's fair game.

State sanctioned racism is the best racism.

Apr 24, 2010#53

Green_Lantern

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

ThatGrinningIdiot! said:
When I visit America, I'll be sure that Arizona is a state I stay far away from.

Wait, you still want to visit America? :confused:

Apr 24, 2010#54

Kitty Sinatra

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

Green_Lantern said:
Wait, you still want to visit America?

Vermont is gorgeous in Autumn. (But get out before winter)

Apr 26, 2010#55

GasBandit

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

Kitty Sinatra;375953][QUOTE=Green_Lantern said:
Wait, you still want to visit America?

Vermont is gorgeous in Autumn. (But get out before winter)[/QUOTE]

Cause that's when the zombies start to roam, feasting upon the living.

Apr 26, 2010#56

Chazwozel

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

ThatGrinningIdiot! said:
When I visit America, I'll be sure that Arizona is a state I stay far away from.

That's a pretty stupid reason not to go to Arizona. It's not like you won't have your passport with you anyway...

---------- Post added at 11:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:31 AM ----------

GasBandit said:
Grats Arizona... you've displaced Texas as "The State that Most Scares Foreigners." :lol:

I want to visit Texas, just for the food. Nothing about the cowboy culture interests me, except steak and chili.

Apr 26, 2010#57

Kitty Sinatra

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

You're thinking of Maine, Gas. Maine gets all the zombies (and demonic dogs, and alien invasions, and homicidal clown creatures)

Vermont just gets cold.

Apr 26, 2010#58

SpecialKO

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

Chazwozel said:
I want to visit Texas, just for the food. Nothing about the cowboy culture interests me, except steak and chili.

Steak and chili are definitely good reasons to go to Texas, if you're in the neighborhood.

Apr 26, 2010#59

Chazwozel

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

Kitty Sinatra said:
You're thinking of Maine, Gas. Maine gets all the zombies (and demonic dogs, and alien invasions, and homicidal clown creatures)

Vermont just gets cold.

My goal in life is to do to Lancaster, PA what Stephen King has done to Derry, ME.

Apr 26, 2010#60

GasBandit

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

Kitty Sinatra said:
You're thinking of Maine, Gas. Maine gets all the zombies (and demonic dogs, and alien invasions, and homicidal clown creatures)

Vermont just gets cold.

Apr 26, 2010#61

Kitty Sinatra

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

yeah whatever. Texas is tiny in comparison to my province.

Apr 26, 2010#62

Krisken

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

Chazwozel;376446][QUOTE=ThatGrinningIdiot! said:
When I visit America, I'll be sure that Arizona is a state I stay far away from.

That's a pretty stupid reason not to go to Arizona. It's not like you won't have your passport with you anyway...

[/QUOTE]
I can understand people from other countries not wanting to feel unwelcome simply because of the way they look, along with being stalked and stopped constantly by law enforcement.

Apr 26, 2010#63

Tinwhistler

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

GasBandit;376466][QUOTE=Kitty Sinatra said:
You're thinking of Maine, Gas. Maine gets all the zombies (and demonic dogs, and alien invasions, and homicidal clown creatures)

Vermont just gets cold.

Those states up there are itty bitty teeny weenie. New Hampshire is the only thing betwixt the two, and zombies don't respect borders. What New Englanders would call a drive across 3 states we Texans call "the morning commute."[/QUOTE]

I had a conversation with someone in the UK once about how impossible it is to lump everyone in the USA together as a culture or ideology. I said something like "If you drove from Paris, France to Antwerp, Belgium, and then to Essen, Germany, just think of how many cultures you'd encounter, and how varied the people would be. Well, that's basically the drive between Houston and Dallas Texas."

Apr 26, 2010#64

Chibibar

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

I think the whole thing is that there are some people in the U.S don't want a NON white president. I think that is what boils down to it. I mean we had other president where their birth was never really questioned. (I personally think this is a racist issue)

Now, the transcript point out an interesting part. Each counties and state have their own way of "official" document. By law, each state will honor the certificate of another state (driver licenses, marriage, and other stuff) The state of Hawaii produce their "paper" work (I put that in quote since they went paperless 9 years ago) and people only QUESTION the president's BC...... odd isn't it??

Apr 26, 2010#65

GasBandit

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

Kitty Sinatra said:
yeah whatever. Texas is tiny in comparison to my province.

That only serves to strengthen my point - which was not that Texas is big, but that New England states are small.

Apr 26, 2010#66

Selgeron

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

I like being able to get across my entire state in a day... It means when someone says "I'm from Vermont" you sort of know their general location. Someone says "I'm from Texas" and I'm like 'thats like a third of the continental US be more specific.

Also Zombies freeze during the winter and since we have few large population centers they aren't really a threat.... We have a a big boat for the entire states population to hide on Lake Champlain anyway just in case.

Apr 26, 2010#67

ThatGrinningIdiot!

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

Chazwozel;376446][QUOTE=ThatGrinningIdiot! said:
When I visit America, I'll be sure that Arizona is a state I stay far away from.

GasBandit said:
Grats Arizona... you've displaced Texas as "The State that Most Scares Foreigners." :lol:

I want to visit Texas, just for the food. Nothing about the cowboy culture interests me, except steak and chili.[/QUOTE]

Once upon a time, my Indian status card would've allowed me to cross the border with impunity. Now after the 9/11 incident, I have a difficult time convincing the officers that my card is legitimate. With this new law in place, I doubt that the state of Arizona would readily accept my status card.

Apr 26, 2010#68

GasBandit

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

Swastikas smeared in beans on AZ capitol

Apr 26, 2010#69

Chibibar

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

heh. I just talk to one of my co-workers. I think one of the main reason people are still on the birth certificate is that the president took a while to "produce" one after requested like several months? I don't even think about it.

Apr 26, 2010#70

Covar

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

Soliloquy said:
Sweet! We get to re-live all those scenes from World War 2 movies!

Arizona police are going to have to work on their German accents, though.

"Papers, Please."

wait are you saying that when I'm driving down the road and get stopped by the police I'll have to present them with some form of identification? That's just crazy.

Apr 26, 2010#71

Kitty Sinatra

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

When you're walking down the street.

Apr 27, 2010#72

AshburnerX

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

Covar;376919][QUOTE=Soliloquy said:
Sweet! We get to re-live all those scenes from World War 2 movies!

Arizona police are going to have to work on their German accents, though.

"Papers, Please."

wait are you saying that when I'm driving down the road and get stopped by the police I'll have to present them with some form of identification? That's just crazy.[/QUOTE]

You weren't being pulled over for being not white before... OK, maybe you were, but it wasn't as blatant as it is now.

Apr 27, 2010#73

Chibibar

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

Covar;376919][QUOTE=Soliloquy said:
Sweet! We get to re-live all those scenes from World War 2 movies!

Arizona police are going to have to work on their German accents, though.

"Papers, Please."

Apr 27, 2010#74

Chazwozel

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

Chibibar;377065][QUOTE=Covar;376919][QUOTE=Soliloquy said:
Sweet! We get to re-live all those scenes from World War 2 movies!

Arizona police are going to have to work on their German accents, though.

"Papers, Please."

Apr 27, 2010#75

Chibibar

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

Chazwozel;377069][QUOTE=Chibibar;377065][QUOTE=Covar;376919][QUOTE=Soliloquy said:
Sweet! We get to re-live all those scenes from World War 2 movies!

Arizona police are going to have to work on their German accents, though.

"Papers, Please."

wait are you saying that when I'm driving down the road and get stopped by the police I'll have to present them with some form of identification? That's just crazy.[/QUOTE]

Actually the law allows police to stop anyone at anytime. You could be walking, out on a date, driving, or just hanging around. If they think you are an immigrant, they can ask for your green card/ID card. I wonder if they will be asking any white people.[/QUOTE]

Oh please, the police can stop anyone at anytime in any state and make up any kind of bullshit as to why they did it.[/QUOTE]

true, but there are rules on that. If I was just walking, dressing plainly, not carrying anything or even a chance to carry a weapon. No recent crime committed in the area. The police can't just stop me and make shit up. (well they can) but that would be harassment and I can file it (not that I would win but I can complain) If there is probable cause and the office is being nice about it, then I have no complain.

Of course I wonder if this law would allow police just to bust in your home for probable cause of having illegal immigrant or not. Generally you would need a warrant and such, but I wonder.... I haven't read the law in detail (since it is in Arizona and not Texas)

Apr 28, 2010#76

DarkAudit

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

There's prison time in the law even if you're legal but can't provide proof when it's demanded.

Apr 28, 2010#77

Chibibar

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

DarkAudit said:
There's prison time in the law even if you're legal but can't provide proof when it's demanded.

I remember a time in Chicago where my father (Thai/Indian) looks Hispanic with a beard. A cop stop him and ask for Greencard (back in 80s) and he left his wallet at home since he was just out for a stroll. He had to return to his apartment and get it while the cop follow him all the way home.

I guess in Arizona, if you forgot your wallet and don't have it on you. It is jail time instead of following to your home to get it.

Apr 29, 2010#78

Bowielee

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

Yay for institutionalized racism.

Arizona, you cooky rednecks.

Apr 29, 2010#79

Kitty Sinatra

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

DarkAudit said:
There's prison time in the law even if you're legal but can't provide proof when it's demanded.

Is it actually jail time, or are you just detained until you can provide ID?

Apr 29, 2010#80

DarkAudit

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

Kitty Sinatra;378232][QUOTE=DarkAudit said:
There's prison time in the law even if you're legal but can't provide proof when it's demanded.

Is it actually jail time, or are you just detained until you can provide ID?[/QUOTE]

Class 1 misdemeanor with up to 6 months of jail time for failing to provide documentation.

Apr 29, 2010#81

Chibibar

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

DarkAudit;378263][QUOTE=Kitty Sinatra;378232][QUOTE=DarkAudit said:
There's prison time in the law even if you're legal but can't provide proof when it's demanded.

Is it actually jail time, or are you just detained until you can provide ID?[/QUOTE]

Class 1 misdemeanor with up to 6 months of jail time for failing to provide documentation.[/QUOTE]

It would totally suck if you forgotten your wallet with your ID in it (it happens)
Also it would totally suck if you are single without friends or family who has access to your home to GET your ID and prove you are not illegal immigrant.

Apr 29, 2010#82

Norris

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

Kitty Sinatra;378232][QUOTE=DarkAudit said:
There's prison time in the law even if you're legal but can't provide proof when it's demanded.

Is it actually jail time, or are you just detained until you can provide ID?[/QUOTE]But...if you are detained...and your ID is at home...and you don't live at the jail...I don't get how that would work.

Chazwozel said:
Oh please, the police can stop anyone at anytime in any state and make up any kind of bullshit as to why they did it.

Yes, but in Arizona "Driving While Mexican" is now a perfectly legal and valid reason to stop someone. At least make people WORK at hiding blatant profiling.

Apr 29, 2010#83

Chibibar

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

Norris said:
Yes, but in Arizona "Driving While Non-White" is now a perfectly legal and valid reason to stop someone. At least make people WORK at hiding blatant profiling.

hehe.. fix it for ya

Apr 29, 2010#84

Chazwozel

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

Was listening to the radio this morning... the first wave of lawsuits are already starting over this...

Apr 29, 2010#85

Chibibar

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

Chazwozel said:
Was listening to the radio this morning... the first wave of lawsuits are already starting over this...

shouldn't be too hard. All they have to do is a cop asking and jailing a legal citizen cause he/she left his/her wallet at home with no ID.

Apr 29, 2010#86

Kitty Sinatra

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

I don't know how one can actually prove one's identity while being detained by the police, but I know that police here in Canada - or at least Ontario - can detain someone who is unwilling (or unable) to identify himself until they figure out who he is (or decide they don't care). How this works, I don't know but it must since it occurs.

It's not a crime here, though, to refuse to identify yourself. I assume this means a cop's gotta have a decent suspicion that you really are someone they're after before they can detain you while they try to figure out who you are.

Apr 30, 2010#87

DarkAudit

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

You can identify yourself just fine and still be in violation of this law. Your driver's license may be a legal form of ID, but it's not proof of citizenship or immigration status.

Apr 30, 2010#88

GasBandit

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

What I'm reading in this thread is contradicting what I'm hearing from other sources (though I've been so busy the last few days I haven't had time to look into it for myself). I'm hearing from other quarters that the cops won't just be able to pull someone over for being brown... it's that if they come across something tangible (presumably other than skin color) during the process of executing other investigations (IE, during a traffic stop) that leads them to suspect illegal status, they are to follow up now. Kinda like how the cops used to not be allowed to pull you OVER for not wearing your seat belt, but could nail you for it if they pulled you over for speeding or running a light. Of course, that didn't last, now they CAN pull you over for seat belt violations, as I found in 2004 to my chagrin.

Anybody got the pieces that say one way or the other?

Apr 30, 2010#89

Chibibar

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

GasBandit said:
What I'm reading in this thread is contradicting what I'm hearing from other sources (though I've been so busy the last few days I haven't had time to look into it for myself). I'm hearing from other quarters that the cops won't just be able to pull someone over for being brown... it's that if they come across something tangible (presumably other than skin color) during the process of executing other investigations (IE, during a traffic stop) that leads them to suspect illegal status, they are to follow up now. Kinda like how the cops used to not be allowed to pull you OVER for not wearing your seat belt, but could nail you for it if they pulled you over for speeding or running a light. Of course, that didn't last, now they CAN pull you over for seat belt violations, as I found in 2004 to my chagrin.

Anybody got the pieces that say one way or the other?

http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf

That is the full bill.

There are couple of areas (any lawyers can better sense of it?)

1. If a law officer have probably suspicion of a person immigrant status, they can stop you and ask for it (thus.... profiling) (13-2319) basically if you have multiple people in the car and law officer THINKS you are smuggling, they can stop you without a civil traffic issue that is how I understand from this sentence: NOTWITHSTANDING ANY OTHER LAW, A PEACE OFFICER MAY LAWFULLY STOP ANY PERSON WHO IS OPERATING A MOTOR VEHICLE IF THE OFFICER HAS REASONABLE
SUSPICION TO BELIEVE THE PERSON IS IN VIOLATION OF ANY CIVIL TRAFFIC LAW AND THIS SECTION. the section continues about having illegal alien in your car.

2. Day labor pickup are now illegal (13-2928)

3. Of course a shaky one that tresspassing (just being int he U.S.) is consider illegal and can be jail IF the law enforcer think you are illegal immigrant (13-1509)

Apr 30, 2010#90

GasBandit

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

So, in other words, it does seem to be that you have to be stopped/investigated for some other purpose, that you can't just be pulled over for being brown.

In related news, the Arizona "birther" law is tabled for now.

Apr 30, 2010#91

Chibibar

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

GasBandit said:
So, in other words, it does seem to be that you have to be stopped/investigated for some other purpose, that you can't just be pulled over for being brown.

In related news, the Arizona \"birther\" law is tabled for now.

actually... you CAN be stop for being brown since the "This section" including profiling and what is consider illegal conduct.

Apr 30, 2010#92

GasBandit

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

Chibibar;378945][QUOTE=GasBandit said:
So, in other words, it does seem to be that you have to be stopped/investigated for some other purpose, that you can't just be pulled over for being brown.

In related news, the Arizona \\"birther\\" law is tabled for now.

Apr 30, 2010#93

Chibibar

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

GasBandit;378947][QUOTE=Chibibar;378945][QUOTE=GasBandit said:
So, in other words, it does seem to be that you have to be stopped/investigated for some other purpose, that you can't just be pulled over for being brown.

In related news, the Arizona \\\"birther\\\" law is tabled for now.

actually... you CAN be stop for being brown since the "This section" including profiling and what is consider illegal conduct.[/QUOTE]

That's the problem with the non-english they write laws in... you've got some people claiming it mean you can, and others claiming it means you can't.[/QUOTE]

well, if you read most of the section (I haven't read the whole thing cause it gives me headache) the law made many things illegal to do in the states

just being IN the state and illegal immigrant is breaking the local law which law enforcement can arrest you and detain you (before it was just Federal level)
Local law enforcement can and allow to make assumption that if you are driving, you are brown, yellow or anything but white (assuming) they can stop you on suspicion of "smuggling" illegals again... it use to be Federal agents only but now local law enforcement in Arizona can do it now.

Thus, if you are driving a truck and have like 2 people in it and the local law enforcement has a gut feeling you are smuggling (lets say you just drove near the border town) they can stop you without any traffic violation according to the law.

I think that is what upset a lot of people right now. It just open to possible racial profiling.

Apr 30, 2010#94

Krisken

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

Apparently, teachers in Arizona with accents considered too heavy get transferred.

Apr 30, 2010#95

GasBandit

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

Krisken said:
Apparently, teachers in Arizona with accents considered too heavy get transferred.

ENGLISH teachers unable to speak english correctly/understandably.

Apr 30, 2010#96

Chibibar

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

Krisken said:
Apparently, teachers in Arizona with accents considered too heavy get transferred.

I find that silly. I have met people who English is their 2nd language spoke BETTER than people with English as first (mainly I am guessing that they learn the correct way of speaking)

Apr 30, 2010#97

Krisken

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

GasBandit;379008][QUOTE=Krisken said:
Apparently, teachers in Arizona with accents considered too heavy get transferred.

ENGLISH teachers unable to speak english correctly/understandably.[/QUOTE]
I know a Nigerian teacher who was so anal about English sentence structure, improper commas would net you a failing grade. His accent would have gotten him fired through this law.

Apr 30, 2010#98

Covar

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

just being IN the state and illegal immigrant is breaking the local law

are you saying that an ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT is not allowed in the state of Arizona? O_O

My God the horrors.

Apr 30, 2010#99

GasBandit

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

From the other side of the coin, I was learning japanese from a pakistani professor, when I was in school. I could barely understand her english. I can't imagine what I must sound like to a native Japanese speaker.

Apr 30, 2010#100

Chibibar

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

Covar said:
just being IN the state and illegal immigrant is breaking the local law

Click to expand...

are you saying that an ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT is not allowed in the state of Arizona? O_O

My God the horrors.

Apr 30, 2010#101

GasBandit

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

Chibibar;379014][QUOTE=Covar said:
just being IN the state and illegal immigrant is breaking the local law

Click to expand...

are you saying that an ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT is not allowed in the state of Arizona? O_O

My God the horrors.

Apr 30, 2010#102

Chibibar

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

GasBandit;379015][QUOTE=Chibibar;379014][QUOTE=Covar said:
just being IN the state and illegal immigrant is breaking the local law

Click to expand...

are you saying that an ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT is not allowed in the state of Arizona? O_O

My God the horrors.

Heh... I got that sarcasm. What I was trying to response to Gas is that some believe you have to violate traffic code before a cop can pull you over, but with this law, you look like illegal immigrant is good enough to pull you over.[/QUOTE]

And I replied that I've heard/read numerous people say that isn't the case. The law is written in legalese, and just looking at it makes my poor english-hardwired brain hurt. I suppose we'll be seeing whether or not it's being enforced in this manner soon enough. Meanwhile, I heard Florida is looking into this sort of legislation too.[/QUOTE]

Well at LEAST South Carolina version DOES state that you can't be pull over just cause you are brown.

http://www.scstatehouse.gov/cgi-bin...118&conid=5502174&result_pos=0&keyval=1184919

http://www2.wspa.com/news/2010/apr/...ker-proposes-immigration-bill-simi-ar-120770/

Apr 30, 2010#103

Krisken

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

Did you know a surprising amount of illegals pay income taxes? Even though they know they won't receive social security benefits, unemployment, and other benefits of paying income taxes. I know it isn't all of them, but it's a little surprising at how many do, even though they have no hope of a refund.

Apr 30, 2010#104

Chibibar

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

Krisken said:
Did you know a surprising amount of illegals pay income taxes? Even though they know they won't receive social security benefits, unemployment, and other benefits of paying income taxes. I know it isn't all of them, but it's a little surprising at how many do, even though they have no hope of a refund.

I always wonder that if illegal immigrant was such a "bad" problem, the U.S. would have nip this in the bud long ago. With the article you gave, that is like government getting "extra money" that they don't have to pay back even if they do get a refund.

May 1, 2010#105

Baerdog

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

Phoenix mayor Phil Gordon gave an interview on one of the local news channels about SB-1070 recently. Here it is.

May 6, 2010#106

Cheesy1

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

Even a white Arizona Sheriff says he won't enforce the law because it doesn't provide any new tools to fight illegals and encourages racial profiling:

May 7, 2010#107

GasBandit

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

According to Kris Kobach, a constitutional law professor who helped to draft this Arizona bill, law enforcement officers "may not consider race, color or national origin" in making any stops or determining any aliens' immigration status. That is in the bill.

May 7, 2010#108

Krisken

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

So.... what do they consider? What is the criteria for stopping someone who "looks like they might be illegal"?

I hope you don't mind, but I'm going with Politifacts checking of the Arizona bill rather than the author. I seem to remember another legal adviser who said waterboarding isn't torture.

May 7, 2010#109

Chibibar

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

Krisken said:
So.... what do they consider? What is the criteria for stopping someone who \"looks like they might be illegal\"?

I hope you don't mind, but I'm going with Politifacts checking of the Arizona bill rather than the author. I seem to remember another legal adviser who said waterboarding isn't torture.

Interesting article. I wonder how would you "suspect" a person who is undocumented illegal if not by race or color?

May 7, 2010#110

Troll

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

Chibibar;382611][QUOTE=Krisken said:
So.... what do they consider? What is the criteria for stopping someone who \\\"looks like they might be illegal\\\"?

I hope you don't mind, but I'm going with Politifacts checking of the Arizona bill rather than the author. I seem to remember another legal adviser who said waterboarding isn't torture.

Interesting article. I wonder how would you "suspect" a person who is undocumented illegal if not by race or color?[/QUOTE]

Here's an interesting clip about that very thing.

May 7, 2010#111

Chibibar

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

Troll;382639][QUOTE=Chibibar;382611][QUOTE=Krisken said:
So.... what do they consider? What is the criteria for stopping someone who \\\\"looks like they might be illegal\\\\"?

I hope you don't mind, but I'm going with Politifacts checking of the Arizona bill rather than the author. I seem to remember another legal adviser who said waterboarding isn't torture.

Interesting article. I wonder how would you "suspect" a person who is undocumented illegal if not by race or color?[/QUOTE]

Here's an interesting clip about that very thing.[/QUOTE]

That was awesome!!

May 7, 2010#112

The Lovely Boehner

Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta

Arizona really is the Alabama of the West.

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