K
Kitty Sinatra
Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta
When you're walking down the street.
When you're walking down the street.
Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther State
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Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta
You weren't being pulled over for being not white before... OK, maybe you were, but it wasn't as blatant as it is now.
wait are you saying that when I'm driving down the road and get stopped by the police I'll have to present them with some form of identification? That's just crazy.[/QUOTE]
You weren't being pulled over for being not white before... OK, maybe you were, but it wasn't as blatant as it is now.
C
Chibibar
Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta
Actually the law allows police to stop anyone at anytime. You could be walking, out on a date, driving, or just hanging around. If they think you are an immigrant, they can ask for your green card/ID card. I wonder if they will be asking any white people.
wait are you saying that when I'm driving down the road and get stopped by the police I'll have to present them with some form of identification? That's just crazy.[/QUOTE]
Actually the law allows police to stop anyone at anytime. You could be walking, out on a date, driving, or just hanging around. If they think you are an immigrant, they can ask for your green card/ID card. I wonder if they will be asking any white people.
C
Chazwozel
Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta
Actually the law allows police to stop anyone at anytime. You could be walking, out on a date, driving, or just hanging around. If they think you are an immigrant, they can ask for your green card/ID card. I wonder if they will be asking any white people.[/QUOTE]
Oh please, the police can stop anyone at anytime in any state and make up any kind of bullshit as to why they did it.
wait are you saying that when I'm driving down the road and get stopped by the police I'll have to present them with some form of identification? That's just crazy.[/QUOTE]
Actually the law allows police to stop anyone at anytime. You could be walking, out on a date, driving, or just hanging around. If they think you are an immigrant, they can ask for your green card/ID card. I wonder if they will be asking any white people.[/QUOTE]
Oh please, the police can stop anyone at anytime in any state and make up any kind of bullshit as to why they did it.
C
Chibibar
Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta
Actually the law allows police to stop anyone at anytime. You could be walking, out on a date, driving, or just hanging around. If they think you are an immigrant, they can ask for your green card/ID card. I wonder if they will be asking any white people.[/QUOTE]
Oh please, the police can stop anyone at anytime in any state and make up any kind of bullshit as to why they did it.[/QUOTE]
true, but there are rules on that. If I was just walking, dressing plainly, not carrying anything or even a chance to carry a weapon. No recent crime committed in the area. The police can't just stop me and make shit up. (well they can) but that would be harassment and I can file it (not that I would win but I can complain) If there is probable cause and the office is being nice about it, then I have no complain.
Of course I wonder if this law would allow police just to bust in your home for probable cause of having illegal immigrant or not. Generally you would need a warrant and such, but I wonder.... I haven't read the law in detail (since it is in Arizona and not Texas)
wait are you saying that when I'm driving down the road and get stopped by the police I'll have to present them with some form of identification? That's just crazy.[/QUOTE]
Actually the law allows police to stop anyone at anytime. You could be walking, out on a date, driving, or just hanging around. If they think you are an immigrant, they can ask for your green card/ID card. I wonder if they will be asking any white people.[/QUOTE]
Oh please, the police can stop anyone at anytime in any state and make up any kind of bullshit as to why they did it.[/QUOTE]
true, but there are rules on that. If I was just walking, dressing plainly, not carrying anything or even a chance to carry a weapon. No recent crime committed in the area. The police can't just stop me and make shit up. (well they can) but that would be harassment and I can file it (not that I would win but I can complain) If there is probable cause and the office is being nice about it, then I have no complain.
Of course I wonder if this law would allow police just to bust in your home for probable cause of having illegal immigrant or not. Generally you would need a warrant and such, but I wonder.... I haven't read the law in detail (since it is in Arizona and not Texas)
C
Chibibar
Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta
I guess in Arizona, if you forgot your wallet and don't have it on you. It is jail time instead of following to your home to get it.
I remember a time in Chicago where my father (Thai/Indian) looks Hispanic with a beard. A cop stop him and ask for Greencard (back in 80s) and he left his wallet at home since he was just out for a stroll. He had to return to his apartment and get it while the cop follow him all the way home.
I guess in Arizona, if you forgot your wallet and don't have it on you. It is jail time instead of following to your home to get it.
K
Kitty Sinatra
Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta
Is it actually jail time, or are you just detained until you can provide ID?
Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta
Class 1 misdemeanor with up to 6 months of jail time for failing to provide documentation.
Is it actually jail time, or are you just detained until you can provide ID?[/QUOTE]
Class 1 misdemeanor with up to 6 months of jail time for failing to provide documentation.
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Chibibar
Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta
Class 1 misdemeanor with up to 6 months of jail time for failing to provide documentation.[/QUOTE]
It would totally suck if you forgotten your wallet with your ID in it (it happens)
Also it would totally suck if you are single without friends or family who has access to your home to GET your ID and prove you are not illegal immigrant.
Is it actually jail time, or are you just detained until you can provide ID?[/QUOTE]
Class 1 misdemeanor with up to 6 months of jail time for failing to provide documentation.[/QUOTE]
It would totally suck if you forgotten your wallet with your ID in it (it happens)
Also it would totally suck if you are single without friends or family who has access to your home to GET your ID and prove you are not illegal immigrant.
Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta
Is it actually jail time, or are you just detained until you can provide ID?[/QUOTE]But...if you are detained...and your ID is at home...and you don't live at the jail...I don't get how that would work.
Yes, but in Arizona "Driving While Mexican" is now a perfectly legal and valid reason to stop someone. At least make people WORK at hiding blatant profiling.
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Chibibar
Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta
hehe.. fix it for ya
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Chazwozel
Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta
Was listening to the radio this morning... the first wave of lawsuits are already starting over this...
Was listening to the radio this morning... the first wave of lawsuits are already starting over this...
C
Chibibar
Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta
shouldn't be too hard. All they have to do is a cop asking and jailing a legal citizen cause he/she left his/her wallet at home with no ID.
K
Kitty Sinatra
Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta
I don't know how one can actually prove one's identity while being detained by the police, but I know that police here in Canada - or at least Ontario - can detain someone who is unwilling (or unable) to identify himself until they figure out who he is (or decide they don't care). How this works, I don't know but it must since it occurs.
It's not a crime here, though, to refuse to identify yourself. I assume this means a cop's gotta have a decent suspicion that you really are someone they're after before they can detain you while they try to figure out who you are.
I don't know how one can actually prove one's identity while being detained by the police, but I know that police here in Canada - or at least Ontario - can detain someone who is unwilling (or unable) to identify himself until they figure out who he is (or decide they don't care). How this works, I don't know but it must since it occurs.
It's not a crime here, though, to refuse to identify yourself. I assume this means a cop's gotta have a decent suspicion that you really are someone they're after before they can detain you while they try to figure out who you are.
GasBandit
Staff member
Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta
What I'm reading in this thread is contradicting what I'm hearing from other sources (though I've been so busy the last few days I haven't had time to look into it for myself). I'm hearing from other quarters that the cops won't just be able to pull someone over for being brown... it's that if they come across something tangible (presumably other than skin color) during the process of executing other investigations (IE, during a traffic stop) that leads them to suspect illegal status, they are to follow up now. Kinda like how the cops used to not be allowed to pull you OVER for not wearing your seat belt, but could nail you for it if they pulled you over for speeding or running a light. Of course, that didn't last, now they CAN pull you over for seat belt violations, as I found in 2004 to my chagrin.
Anybody got the pieces that say one way or the other?
What I'm reading in this thread is contradicting what I'm hearing from other sources (though I've been so busy the last few days I haven't had time to look into it for myself). I'm hearing from other quarters that the cops won't just be able to pull someone over for being brown... it's that if they come across something tangible (presumably other than skin color) during the process of executing other investigations (IE, during a traffic stop) that leads them to suspect illegal status, they are to follow up now. Kinda like how the cops used to not be allowed to pull you OVER for not wearing your seat belt, but could nail you for it if they pulled you over for speeding or running a light. Of course, that didn't last, now they CAN pull you over for seat belt violations, as I found in 2004 to my chagrin.
Anybody got the pieces that say one way or the other?
C
Chibibar
Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta
That is the full bill.
There are couple of areas (any lawyers can better sense of it?)
1. If a law officer have probably suspicion of a person immigrant status, they can stop you and ask for it (thus.... profiling) (13-2319) basically if you have multiple people in the car and law officer THINKS you are smuggling, they can stop you without a civil traffic issue that is how I understand from this sentence: NOTWITHSTANDING ANY OTHER LAW, A PEACE OFFICER MAY LAWFULLY STOP ANY PERSON WHO IS OPERATING A MOTOR VEHICLE IF THE OFFICER HAS REASONABLE
SUSPICION TO BELIEVE THE PERSON IS IN VIOLATION OF ANY CIVIL TRAFFIC LAW AND THIS SECTION. the section continues about having illegal alien in your car.
2. Day labor pickup are now illegal (13-2928)
3. Of course a shaky one that tresspassing (just being int he U.S.) is consider illegal and can be jail IF the law enforcer think you are illegal immigrant (13-1509)
http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf
That is the full bill.
There are couple of areas (any lawyers can better sense of it?)
1. If a law officer have probably suspicion of a person immigrant status, they can stop you and ask for it (thus.... profiling) (13-2319) basically if you have multiple people in the car and law officer THINKS you are smuggling, they can stop you without a civil traffic issue that is how I understand from this sentence: NOTWITHSTANDING ANY OTHER LAW, A PEACE OFFICER MAY LAWFULLY STOP ANY PERSON WHO IS OPERATING A MOTOR VEHICLE IF THE OFFICER HAS REASONABLE
SUSPICION TO BELIEVE THE PERSON IS IN VIOLATION OF ANY CIVIL TRAFFIC LAW AND THIS SECTION. the section continues about having illegal alien in your car.
2. Day labor pickup are now illegal (13-2928)
3. Of course a shaky one that tresspassing (just being int he U.S.) is consider illegal and can be jail IF the law enforcer think you are illegal immigrant (13-1509)
GasBandit
Staff member
Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta
So, in other words, it does seem to be that you have to be stopped/investigated for some other purpose, that you can't just be pulled over for being brown.
In related news, the Arizona "birther" law is tabled for now.
So, in other words, it does seem to be that you have to be stopped/investigated for some other purpose, that you can't just be pulled over for being brown.
In related news, the Arizona "birther" law is tabled for now.
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Chibibar
Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta
actually... you CAN be stop for being brown since the "This section" including profiling and what is consider illegal conduct.
GasBandit
Staff member
Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta
That's the problem with the non-english they write laws in... you've got some people claiming it mean you can, and others claiming it means you can't.
actually... you CAN be stop for being brown since the "This section" including profiling and what is consider illegal conduct.[/QUOTE]
That's the problem with the non-english they write laws in... you've got some people claiming it mean you can, and others claiming it means you can't.
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Chibibar
Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta
That's the problem with the non-english they write laws in... you've got some people claiming it mean you can, and others claiming it means you can't.[/QUOTE]
well, if you read most of the section (I haven't read the whole thing cause it gives me headache) the law made many things illegal to do in the states
just being IN the state and illegal immigrant is breaking the local law which law enforcement can arrest you and detain you (before it was just Federal level)
Local law enforcement can and allow to make assumption that if you are driving, you are brown, yellow or anything but white (assuming) they can stop you on suspicion of "smuggling" illegals again... it use to be Federal agents only but now local law enforcement in Arizona can do it now.
Thus, if you are driving a truck and have like 2 people in it and the local law enforcement has a gut feeling you are smuggling (lets say you just drove near the border town) they can stop you without any traffic violation according to the law.
I think that is what upset a lot of people right now. It just open to possible racial profiling.
actually... you CAN be stop for being brown since the "This section" including profiling and what is consider illegal conduct.[/QUOTE]
That's the problem with the non-english they write laws in... you've got some people claiming it mean you can, and others claiming it means you can't.[/QUOTE]
well, if you read most of the section (I haven't read the whole thing cause it gives me headache) the law made many things illegal to do in the states
just being IN the state and illegal immigrant is breaking the local law which law enforcement can arrest you and detain you (before it was just Federal level)
Local law enforcement can and allow to make assumption that if you are driving, you are brown, yellow or anything but white (assuming) they can stop you on suspicion of "smuggling" illegals again... it use to be Federal agents only but now local law enforcement in Arizona can do it now.
Thus, if you are driving a truck and have like 2 people in it and the local law enforcement has a gut feeling you are smuggling (lets say you just drove near the border town) they can stop you without any traffic violation according to the law.
I think that is what upset a lot of people right now. It just open to possible racial profiling.
Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta
Apparently, teachers in Arizona with accents considered too heavy get transferred.
Apparently, teachers in Arizona with accents considered too heavy get transferred.
GasBandit
Staff member
Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta
ENGLISH teachers unable to speak english correctly/understandably.
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Chibibar
Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta
I find that silly. I have met people who English is their 2nd language spoke BETTER than people with English as first (mainly I am guessing that they learn the correct way of speaking)
Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta
I know a Nigerian teacher who was so anal about English sentence structure, improper commas would net you a failing grade. His accent would have gotten him fired through this law.
ENGLISH teachers unable to speak english correctly/understandably.[/QUOTE]
I know a Nigerian teacher who was so anal about English sentence structure, improper commas would net you a failing grade. His accent would have gotten him fired through this law.
GasBandit
Staff member
Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta
From the other side of the coin, I was learning japanese from a pakistani professor, when I was in school. I could barely understand her english. I can't imagine what I must sound like to a native Japanese speaker.
From the other side of the coin, I was learning japanese from a pakistani professor, when I was in school. I could barely understand her english. I can't imagine what I must sound like to a native Japanese speaker.
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Chibibar
Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta
Heh... I got that sarcasm. What I was trying to response to Gas is that some believe you have to violate traffic code before a cop can pull you over, but with this law, you look like illegal immigrant is good enough to pull you over.
GasBandit
Staff member
Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta
And I replied that I've heard/read numerous people say that isn't the case. The law is written in legalese, and just looking at it makes my poor english-hardwired brain hurt. I suppose we'll be seeing whether or not it's being enforced in this manner soon enough. Meanwhile, I heard Florida is looking into this sort of legislation too.
Heh... I got that sarcasm. What I was trying to response to Gas is that some believe you have to violate traffic code before a cop can pull you over, but with this law, you look like illegal immigrant is good enough to pull you over.[/QUOTE]
And I replied that I've heard/read numerous people say that isn't the case. The law is written in legalese, and just looking at it makes my poor english-hardwired brain hurt. I suppose we'll be seeing whether or not it's being enforced in this manner soon enough. Meanwhile, I heard Florida is looking into this sort of legislation too.
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Chibibar
Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta
And I replied that I've heard/read numerous people say that isn't the case. The law is written in legalese, and just looking at it makes my poor english-hardwired brain hurt. I suppose we'll be seeing whether or not it's being enforced in this manner soon enough. Meanwhile, I heard Florida is looking into this sort of legislation too.[/QUOTE]
Well at LEAST South Carolina version DOES state that you can't be pull over just cause you are brown.
http://www.scstatehouse.gov/cgi-bin...118&conid=5502174&result_pos=0&keyval=1184919
http://www2.wspa.com/news/2010/apr/...ker-proposes-immigration-bill-simi-ar-120770/
Heh... I got that sarcasm. What I was trying to response to Gas is that some believe you have to violate traffic code before a cop can pull you over, but with this law, you look like illegal immigrant is good enough to pull you over.[/QUOTE]
And I replied that I've heard/read numerous people say that isn't the case. The law is written in legalese, and just looking at it makes my poor english-hardwired brain hurt. I suppose we'll be seeing whether or not it's being enforced in this manner soon enough. Meanwhile, I heard Florida is looking into this sort of legislation too.[/QUOTE]
Well at LEAST South Carolina version DOES state that you can't be pull over just cause you are brown.
http://www.scstatehouse.gov/cgi-bin...118&conid=5502174&result_pos=0&keyval=1184919
http://www2.wspa.com/news/2010/apr/...ker-proposes-immigration-bill-simi-ar-120770/
Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta
Did you know a surprising amount of illegals pay income taxes? Even though they know they won't receive social security benefits, unemployment, and other benefits of paying income taxes. I know it isn't all of them, but it's a little surprising at how many do, even though they have no hope of a refund.
Did you know a surprising amount of illegals pay income taxes? Even though they know they won't receive social security benefits, unemployment, and other benefits of paying income taxes. I know it isn't all of them, but it's a little surprising at how many do, even though they have no hope of a refund.
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Chibibar
Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta
I always wonder that if illegal immigrant was such a "bad" problem, the U.S. would have nip this in the bud long ago. With the article you gave, that is like government getting "extra money" that they don't have to pay back even if they do get a refund.
Arizona is either nipping it in the bud, or may be becoming the first Birther Sta
Phoenix mayor Phil Gordon gave an interview on one of the local news channels about SB-1070 recently. Here it is.
Phoenix mayor Phil Gordon gave an interview on one of the local news channels about SB-1070 recently. Here it is.
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