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I saw this picture on Failblog:


and I decided to see if it's from a real story... it is.
Bisexual men claim bias for disqualification at gay softball world series

Three bisexual men have sued a national gay-athletic organization for discrimination for disqualifying their team at the 2008 Gay Softball World Series team by deeming the three not gay enough to participate, The Seattle Times reports.

.....

The three plaintiffs played on a team called D2 that qualified for the 2008 competition, which stipulates that each team can have no more than two heterosexual players.

After a competing team complained, the lawsuit says, the alliance ruled the three bisexual men were \\"nongay\\" and stripped D2 of it second-place finish, The Times says.

The Seattle Weekly reports that the dispute erupted in the middle of the championship game and that play was stopped several times because of the protests.

After the game, the plaintiffs charge, they were grilled in front of some 25 people as to their sexual attractions and desires, purportedly to determine their gayness.

At one point, the lawsuit alleges, one of the plaintiffs was told: \\"This is the Gay World Series, not the Bisexual World Series.\\"

The men are seeking $75,000 for emotional distress and also want D2's second-place finish reinstated, The Times says.

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If the three men are bisexual, surely that's only 1½ heterosexual team members, right? :slywink:

This story makes no sense to me on so many levels.

Shego, I have a job for you...

Meh, as so many anti-gay groups have advocated, a private group can discriminate however it wants. That's why the KKK is still allowed to exist. Personally I have no interest in anything that discriminates against anyone one way or another. Anything that's "gay-only" or "straight-only" or "insert-color-only" is nothing but a gimmick to begin with rather than any true stab at equality.

That's SO not Raven.

I remember reading a couple stories when this first hit. What goes unmentioned is that basically every team goes over their allotment of heterosexual players in order to get better players. Part of the cover story for the heterosexual ringers is to claim bisexuality in case they are seen with women. It's my understanding that this is possibly a case where someone actually blew the whistle on the ringers instead of looking the other way, and the team responded by sticking to their cover story and suing. Of course, it could be true that the three men are actually bisexual, but it's not necessarily a simple case of "BISEXUALS AREN'T GAY ENOUGH."

Vytamindi said:

That's SO not Raven.

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Bwahahahahahahahahahaha.

L2gay, noob.

Vytamindi said:

That's SO not Raven.

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It's not my fault, I told them up front I wasn't gay.

I was just in it for the wonderful uniforms.

the three players were black, and in an interview to determine gayness, a white player gave the exact same questions as a black player and the white player was able to stay while the black player was kicked out

defining characteristics of gay culture:
1) Tons of sex
2) Appreciation of camp
3) Massive bigotry and classism

The fact that there's a GAY ONLY softball champion is beyond asinine to me. To be told you're not GAY enough, is downright funny. The whole thing is a joke.

Haha, reverse bigotry is funny.

Ridiculous.

I don't know what is more, though... The three men "not being gay enough" or the three men suing for "emotional distress".

Ridiculous I tell you.

Yeah, it's ridiculous that the three men would have emotional distress from being singled out and prevented from doing something they enjoy simply because of their sexuality and skin color.

It's not like it's the ONLY team they can play with!
AND it had nothing to do with their skin color so that's out of the question.

.

Morphine said:

It's not like it's the ONLY team they can play with!

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Yeah, I'm sure they'd love to move to a new area so they can play with another team, or hey maybe a regular softball league in their area will be happy to pick up a few bisexual players with a controversy in their history. Yeah, you're right, what are they whining about?

AND it had nothing to do with their skin color so that's out of the question.

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uh

Steven Soderburgin said:

the three players were black, and in an interview to determine gayness, a white player gave the exact same questions as a black player and the white player was able to stay while the black player was kicked out

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Here is a link to back this up!

Ultimately, the predominantly-white committee voted that Charles, Russ, and Apilado, all men of color, were not gay. The committee voted multiple times on at least one player. The committee also declared that the other two players, both white—one of whom had given precisely the same answers as Russ—were gay. The committee recommended disciplinary measures against Apilado, Charles, and Russ their team, and the San Francisco Gay Softball League, including forcing their team, D2, to retroactively forfeit their second-place World Series win.

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.

Steven Soderburgin;383505][QUOTE=Morphine said:

It's not like it's the ONLY team they can play with!

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Yeah, I'm sure they'd love to move to a new area so they can play with another team, or hey maybe a regular softball league in their area will be happy to pick up a few bisexual players with a controversy in their history. Yeah, you're right, what are they whining about?

AND it had nothing to do with their skin color so that's out of the question.

Click to expand...

uh

Steven Soderburgin said:

the three players were black, and in an interview to determine gayness, a white player gave the exact same questions as a black player and the white player was able to stay while the black player was kicked out

Click to expand...

Here is a link to back this up!

Ultimately, the predominantly-white committee voted that Charles, Russ, and Apilado, all men of color, were not gay. The committee voted multiple times on at least one player. The committee also declared that the other two players, both white—one of whom had given precisely the same answers as Russ—were gay. The committee recommended disciplinary measures against Apilado, Charles, and Russ their team, and the San Francisco Gay Softball League, including forcing their team, D2, to retroactively forfeit their second-place World Series win.

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[/QUOTE]

I find the fact that you're crying racism having the avatar that you do to be extremely ironic.

.

What's the point of gay softball ? They're all batting for the same team!

Bowielee said:

I find the fact that you're crying racism having the avatar that you do to be extremely ironic.

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I can see why someone might find the avatar racist, though I didn't think of it that way. That doesn't excuse it, of course. Furthermore, my avatar does not change the fact that this is pretty blatant racism in addition to bigotry against bisexuals.

Lol@chaz

Steven Soderburgin;383526][QUOTE=Bowielee said:

I find the fact that you're crying racism having the avatar that you do to be extremely ironic.

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I can see why someone might find the avatar racist, though I didn't think of it that way. That doesn't excuse it, of course. Furthermore, my avatar does not change the fact that this is pretty blatant racism in addition to bigotry against bisexuals.[/QUOTE]

Black people smoke weed.

---------- Post added at 01:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:59 PM ----------

Gay softball: The only time you'll see a pitcher behind the catcher!

Oh cool now this thread is about making gay jokes. awesome.

?

.

Alright, I'm done. Any more would just be labored.

I find ironic how some people can find racism on ANYTHING.

My point is, yes, I don't think it's right for them to reject these guys for not being "gay enough" but suing for "emotional distress" is just plain drama.

Morphine said:

suing for "emotional distress" is just plain drama.

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Well....

I think there's a case to be made for it being racist - when a white athlete and a black athlete in the same circumstances give the same answers, one is exonerated and the other punished, race is very possibly a factor. If for no other reason than it's the most immediate difference between the two.

Morphine said:

I find ironic how some people can find racism on ANYTHING.

My point is, yes, I don't think it's right for them to reject these guys for not being "gay enough" but suing for "emotional distress" is just plain drama.

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So you're arguing that they are gay enough?

Morphine said:

I find ironic how some people can find racism on ANYTHING.

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WHAT DOES THIS SENTENCE EVEN MEAN

Picky, picky.

Null said:

I think there's a case to be made for it being racist - when a white athlete and a black athlete in the same circumstances give the same answers, one is exonerated and the other punished, race is very possibly a factor. If for no other reason than it's the most immediate difference between the two.

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That's pretty much the definition right there.

Cat;383616][QUOTE=Morphine said:

I find ironic how some people can find racism on ANYTHING.

My point is, yes, I don't think it's right for them to reject these guys for not being "gay enough" but suing for "emotional distress" is just plain drama.

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So you're arguing that they are gay enough? [/QUOTE]

No, I'm saying it is ridiculous to even try to qualify someone as "gay enough" either you are or you're not, it's like saying someone isn't "pregnant enough".

Jigglymuff;383617][QUOTE=Morphine said:

I find ironic how some people can find racism on ANYTHING.

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WHAT DOES THIS SENTENCE EVEN MEAN[/QUOTE]

It means that if you want to, you'll find racism anywhere even if it's not there. If someone doesn't get accepted for something, if someone even gets a traffic ticket, in whichever case, even if it doesn't have anything to do with it, if you want to make it about that, you will.

Morphine said:

No, I'm saying it is ridiculous to even try to qualify someone as "gay enough" either you are or you're not, it's like saying someone isn't "pregnant enough".

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Gay isn't a boolean or binary switch. Gay is an analog potentiometer. There are varying degrees of gaiety.

Morphine said:

Jigglymuff;383617][QUOTE=Morphine said:

I find ironic how some people can find racism on ANYTHING.

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WHAT DOES THIS SENTENCE EVEN MEAN

Click to expand...

It means that if you want to, you'll find racism anywhere even if it's not there. If someone doesn't get accepted for something, if someone even gets a traffic ticket, in whichever case, even if it doesn't have anything to do with it, if you want to make it about that, you will.[/QUOTE]

HOW IS ANY OF THAT

IRONY

or is it just more...

CONJECTURE

Find out just how gay you are with the Channel 4 Gay-O-Meter! And be honest, you insecure dingbats.

(warning, slightly NSFW graphic on site)
http://www.channel4.com/gayometer

26% gay! Suck it everyone I grew up with who were surprised I married a woman!

Before I click on that link, how much of it is offensive stereotyping?

Steven Soderburgin said:

Before I click on that link, how much of it is offensive stereotyping?

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Well it's an internet quiz with a pretty awful graphic, so I'd say it's safe to assume most of it is.

Steven Soderburgin said:

Before I click on that link, how much of it is offensive stereotyping?

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You'd have to tell me, Sir Whiteknight.

Most of the questions are based on stereotypes, but there were a couple that actually had to do with sexuality. That's a couple more than I was expecting.

I got 46%, by the way.

30%

Suck it Dave.

Covar said:

30%

Suck it Dave.

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I would but I'm only 26% gay. Were I 30% or higher I'd think about it.

33% !


And some of those questions have shitty answers.

Well played Dave. Well played.

Steven Soderburgin said:

Most of the questions are based on stereotypes, but there were a couple that actually had to do with sexuality. That's a couple more than I was expecting.

I got 46%, by the way.

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Guess you won't be playing softball either, there, you filthy breeder.

23%

I normally go into these things thinking I'd score higher.

GasBandit;383685][QUOTE=Steven Soderburgin said:

Most of the questions are based on stereotypes, but there were a couple that actually had to do with sexuality. That's a couple more than I was expecting.

I got 46%, by the way.

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Guess you won't be playing softball either, there, you filthy breeder.[/QUOTE]Nah, I'm white, it's cool.

Steven Soderburgin;383688][QUOTE=GasBandit;383685][QUOTE=Steven Soderburgin said:

Most of the questions are based on stereotypes, but there were a couple that actually had to do with sexuality. That's a couple more than I was expecting.

I got 46%, by the way.

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Guess you won't be playing softball either, there, you filthy breeder.[/QUOTE]Nah, I'm white, it's cool.[/QUOTE]

Well played indeed!

.

40%?!

I am SURE I'm way gayer than that.

These questions are stupid u_u

Wow. I'm at 56%, which is higher than I expected. Heh.

HCGLNS is 6% Gay, apparently I'm just too straight for these modern times.

46% Gay. LOL

Well, I guess it's not every day that you wake up and find that you're a screaming bender with no more right to live on god's clean earth than a weasel. [1]

CynicismKills;383667][QUOTE=Steven Soderburgin said:

Before I click on that link, how much of it is offensive stereotyping?

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Well it's an internet quiz with a pretty awful graphic, so I'd say it's safe to assume most of it is.[/QUOTE]

Yyyyeah, dumb questions. What does it matter if I'm more of I'd rather hire a professional than do a home project myself, I wonder? Still, it's just a silly diversion. 40%.

56% gay.


Hrm, I would say I'm more like a 49%... definitely a minority share.

But I'm still all man, baby... ooh yeah.

Anyway, to get back on topic, the gay community in general tends to hate bisexuals, and bisexuals are a largely invisible part of the gay community. It's pretty terrible and it's the reason I always strive to identify as bisexual even when identifying as gay is easier.

For example, when I came out to my mom, I was very tempted to say that I was gay instead of bisexual because people know what "gay" means. With being bisexual, a lot of parents seem to think it's just a phase, or hold out hope that you'll date the opposite gender anyway so they won't have to worry about it. My mom actually didn't believe that someone could be bisexual when I told her. The gay community doesn't help this perception because they do things like this, wherein they paint bisexuals as non-gay and exclude them.

16% gay. I was mildly surprised by that.

Steven Soderburgin said:

Anyway, to get back on topic, the gay community in general tends to hate bisexuals, and bisexuals are a largely invisible part of the gay community. It's pretty terrible and it's the reason I always strive to identify as bisexual even when identifying as gay is easier.

For example, when I came out to my mom, I was very tempted to say that I was gay instead of bisexual because people know what "gay" means. With being bisexual, a lot of parents seem to think it's just a phase, or hold out hope that you'll date the opposite gender anyway so they won't have to worry about it. My mom actually didn't believe that someone could be bisexual when I told her. The gay community doesn't help this perception because they do things like this, wherein they paint bisexuals as non-gay and exclude them.

Click to expand...

I tell people I'm an atheist when, by definition, I'm actually agnostic.


... ok, so maybe it isn't the same.

Steven Soderburgin said:

Anyway, to get back on topic, the gay community in general tends to hate bisexuals, and bisexuals are a largely invisible part of the gay community. It's pretty terrible and it's the reason I always strive to identify as bisexual even when identifying as gay is easier.

For example, when I came out to my mom, I was very tempted to say that I was gay instead of bisexual because people know what "gay" means. With being bisexual, a lot of parents seem to think it's just a phase, or hold out hope that you'll date the opposite gender anyway so they won't have to worry about it. My mom actually didn't believe that someone could be bisexual when I told her. The gay community doesn't help this perception because they do things like this, wherein they paint bisexuals as non-gay and exclude them.

Click to expand...

On the same front, black guys tend to be biased against Asians or Hispanics. Hispanics tend to look down on Hispanics from different places. There's a pecking order IIRC with Costa Ricans being at the bottom and Mexicans at the top. I don't know the order because I don't really care.

What I'm trying to say is that any group that associates itself AS a group tends to look at different groups as outsiders. So the gay community identifies themselves as gays and everyone else is NOT gay. In addition, there's this group of people who AREN'T gay trying to say they they ARE and we can't have that!

Human nature, my friend.

Dave;383934][QUOTE=Steven Soderburgin said:

Anyway, to get back on topic, the gay community in general tends to hate bisexuals, and bisexuals are a largely invisible part of the gay community. It's pretty terrible and it's the reason I always strive to identify as bisexual even when identifying as gay is easier.

For example, when I came out to my mom, I was very tempted to say that I was gay instead of bisexual because people know what "gay" means. With being bisexual, a lot of parents seem to think it's just a phase, or hold out hope that you'll date the opposite gender anyway so they won't have to worry about it. My mom actually didn't believe that someone could be bisexual when I told her. The gay community doesn't help this perception because they do things like this, wherein they paint bisexuals as non-gay and exclude them.

Click to expand...

On the same front, black guys tend to be biased against Asians or Hispanics. Hispanics tend to look down on Hispanics from different places. There's a pecking order IIRC with Costa Ricans being at the bottom and Mexicans at the top. I don't know the order because I don't really care.[/QUOTE]

I don't think Mexicans are at the top; it seemed to be Puerto Ricans where I came from.

WHY DON'T YOU KNOW, DAVE? WHY DON'T YOU CARE?

I don't care because I think ranking bias is stupid. Like in Ireland when they used to hate each other because of their religion. They are the SAME PEOPLE yet they find a way to hate each other. Same with the Muslim/Jewish countries. The Sunnis and Shiites hate each other but if they didn't know what the other believed they would eb fine with each other.

It's just dumb.

You are being a little too simple with the Irish issue. People gloss over the invasions/wars dynamic of the relationship.

Whose house does it snow on first? Yours or your neighbours?

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~ Rev. Duncan MacAllister, 1786

Dave said:

On the same front, black guys tend to be biased against Asians or Hispanics. Hispanics tend to look down on Hispanics from different places. There's a pecking order IIRC with Costa Ricans being at the bottom and Mexicans at the top. I don't know the order because I don't really care.

What I'm trying to say is that any group that associates itself AS a group tends to look at different groups as outsiders. So the gay community identifies themselves as gays and everyone else is NOT gay. In addition, there's this group of people who AREN'T gay trying to say they they ARE and we can't have that!

Human nature, my friend.

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It's a little different because the vast majority of people, even those within the gay community, tend to think of LBGT as a singular group that all want the same thing and want to work together for equality for all (or, depending on your political leaning, want to overthrow the government and destroy marriage and morality). The reality, of course, is that the G and the L tend to hate the B for various reasons and all three of them often prove more than willing to throw the T under the bus.

Steven Soderburgin;383958][QUOTE=Dave said:

On the same front, black guys tend to be biased against Asians or Hispanics. Hispanics tend to look down on Hispanics from different places. There's a pecking order IIRC with Costa Ricans being at the bottom and Mexicans at the top. I don't know the order because I don't really care.

What I'm trying to say is that any group that associates itself AS a group tends to look at different groups as outsiders. So the gay community identifies themselves as gays and everyone else is NOT gay. In addition, there's this group of people who AREN'T gay trying to say they they ARE and we can't have that!

Human nature, my friend.

Click to expand...

It's a little different because the vast majority of people, even those within the gay community, tend to think of LBGT as a singular group that all want the same thing and want to work together for equality for all (or, depending on your political leaning, want to overthrow the government and destroy marriage and morality). The reality, of course, is that the G and the L tend to hate the B for various reasons and all three of them often prove more than willing to throw the T under the bus.[/QUOTE]

OMG OMG They fight amongst themselves just like real people! That's so cute!

The first time I heard LBGT community, I thought it was an odd pairing. Since those are some disparate groups. But there are strength in numbers, and they make a better lobbying group than just a gay or lesbian alliance. etc.

Hmm, self segregation seems like the best way to have society accept y- waaait a minute. Also, when did being gay need a test? I haven't studied at all, just extracurricular activities.

SeraRelm said:

Hmm, self segregation seems like the best way to have society accept y- waaait a minute. Also, when did being gay need a test? I haven't studied at all, just extracurricular activities.

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Face it, Sera. You're a natural talent.

SeraRelm said:

Hmm, self segregation seems like the best way to have society accept y- waaait a minute. Also, when did being gay need a test? I haven't studied at all, just extracurricular activities.

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I hear the practical portion of the exam is a real pain in the...

OK, I'm probably going to get lambasted here, but here we go anyway.

I fully understand why many "100% gay" people have a problem with bisexuals in general. Now this is largely based upon my experience with the GLBT community, and as such is completely biased to my experience, but by and large most of the bisexuals I've met are only bisexual when it comes to sex and straight when they are introducing their partner to their families.

I think we see far too many "weekend gays", especially because being bisexual is all the rage right now.

Many feel that it minimizes the struggle that gay men and women have gone through in accepting their sexuality, and being accepted by others.

Personally, I could care less what your sexuality is, but I can see where gay men and women, especially ones from generations who were forced to live a lie most of their lives, would feel slighted by bisexuals hitching their wagon onto the gay rights movement.

As to transgendered folk, I can't even begin to see why they're thrown to the wolves by the gay community as they are/were just as stigmatized, if not more so than gays and lesbians.

All that being said, at the end of the day, we're all human and don't like what's different and that happens in all groups.

I'll close with a line from Torch Song Trilogy. "Just once, I'd like to meet a bisexual who brings his boyfriend home to his mother and steps out with his woman on the weekends."

Very good points, Bowie.

Bowielee said:

OK, I'm probably going to get lambasted here, but here we go anyway.

I fully understand why many "100% gay" people have a problem with bisexuals in general. Now this is largely based upon my experience with the GLBT community, and as such is completely biased to my experience, but by and large most of the bisexuals I've met are only bisexual when it comes to sex and straight when they are introducing their partner to their families.

I think we see far too many "weekend gays", especially because being bisexual is all the rage right now.

Many feel that it minimizes the struggle that gay men and women have gone through in accepting their sexuality, and being accepted by others.

Personally, I could care less what your sexuality is, but I can see where gay men and women, especially ones from generations who were forced to live a lie most of their lives, would feel slighted by bisexuals hitching their wagon onto the gay rights movement.

As to transgendered folk, I can't even begin to see why they're thrown to the wolves by the gay community as they are/were just as stigmatized, if not more so than gays and lesbians.

All that being said, at the end of the day, we're all human and don't like what's different and that happens in all groups.

I'll close with a line from Torch Song Trilogy. "Just once, I'd like to meet a bisexual who brings his boyfriend home to his mother and steps out with his woman on the weekends."

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(inner pedant twitches uncontrollably).

I know what you mean, Bowie. I'm not gay, so it feels weird being "indignant" about this kind of thing, but that kind of behavior bothers me too. It's like that "Close Face" episode of Moral Orel where the sex shop girl falls in love with a girl in high school, but she only sticks around to giggle about how daring and "bad" she's being. I had mostly gay guy friends in high school, and a lot of them struggled. It was a really conservative school where any whiff of homosexuality was pounced upon as the best gossip, because it was such a fun "novelty" at that school. Lots of people tried to get close to them just because they were gay... to "study" them, it seemed like.... and to talk casually about how they might be bi because they think they might be attracted to both sexes. It's not easy when people make light of a part of your identity or turn it into a game. It never affected me directly, but I felt for my friends who were really bothered by it.

I don't pretend that I can tell when someone is honestly bisexual or just indulging in a fad, so it's not something that makes me mad often. I remember having a pretty good feeling about it back then, though.

Too bad feeling indignant that other people had it easier doesn't progress the issue as a whole.