[Movies] Captain America: Civil War (spoilers!)

I just realized why Bucky lied to Steve in Bucharest.

Bucky lied because he wanted Steve to give up on him. He didn't want Steve to interfere and get hurt when the authorities came for him, because he didn't think he was worth saving.

Ow.
 
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You know, there was one "revelation" that happened in Civil War that really comes out of left-field if you didn't watch Winter Soldier and really pay attention...

That Bucky was involved with the death of Tony Starks parents. When they watch the tape and Tony asks if Steve "knew", Steve says "I didn't know it was him." before Tony repeats himself with Steve admitting "Yes". For those that may not remember, in Winter Soldier, when Steve and Natasha head to the old SHIELD bunker and find the Zola computer, he stalls by telling them the story of HYDRA growing within SHIELD, and at one point he shows them a picture of Howard Stark's death and the line "accidents... will happen".

That single little blurb is the only reason Steve knew, since before that, Howard Stark's death was chalked up to a car accident since Iron Man 1. That one moment was the only lead up to Steve knowing about the murder, which is why when he admits to Tony that he "knew" about his parents it feels rather out of nowhere in the context of the movie.
 
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That whole scene was crazy good. It's the first time we really see Tony lose his cool, stop snarking and lay into someone. Every shot of his face and line of dialogue tells you just how betrayed and enraged he really is.
 
That whole scene was crazy good. It's the first time we really see Tony lose his cool, stop snarking and lay into someone. Every shot of his face and line of dialogue tells you just how betrayed and enraged he really is.
Oh yeah, it was a great scene, it just probably came out of nowhere that suddenly Steve was privy to the whole murder thing. I think most people likely missed the little reference in the middle of Winter Soldier that showed exactly why he knew.
 
Though that does remind me of one minor nitpick or gripe for the movie: the location text taking up the entire screen. Am I the only one who found that mildly annoying? Why didn't they just use the usual tiny text in the corner?
My only thought about the location text was that it was obvious that some of the film makers are fans of Movie Sins. Most of the location texts had enough information to identify the location, but no additional, redundant information -- "Bucharest" instead of "Bucharest, Romania"; "Queens" instead of Queens, New York; et cetera. This foils a common Movie Sins joke, "London, England in case you confused it with London, Ontario."
 
You know, there was one "revelation" that happened in Civil War that really comes out of left-field if you didn't watch Winter Soldier and really pay attention...

That Bucky was involved with the death of Tony Starks parents. When they watch the tape and Tony asks if Steve "knew", Steve says "I didn't know it was him." before Tony repeats himself with Steve admitting "Yes". For those that may not remember, in Winter Soldier, when Steve and Natasha head to the old SHIELD bunker and find the Zola computer, he stalls by telling them the story of HYDRA growing within SHIELD, and at one point he shows them a picture of Howard Stark's death and the line "sacrifices had to be made".

That single little blurb is the only reason Steve knew, since before that, Howard Stark's death was chalked up to a car accident since Iron Man 1. That one moment was the only lead up to Steve knowing about the murder, which is why when he admits to Tony that he "knew" about his parents it feels rather out of nowhere in the context of the movie.
Ah! Thank you! That was bugging both Mr. Z and myself. It's been a while since I watched Winter Soldier, so I forgot about that part.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
I didn't realize people didn't know Steve Knew. I thought it was one of the big bombshell moments of Winter Soldier.

Scene in question:

 
Oops... Okay so the line was actually "accidents... will happen", which fits a lot better then what my memory was telling me. Same deal though.

Still, while it was a big moment for some of us, I don't think a general audience would have really hung on that little sequence about Howard Stark over the much larger revelation that "Holy shit HYDRA is inside SHIELD!". Much of my point is that in the context of Civil War as a whole, the revelation that Steve "knew" feels like it comes out of nowhere unless you watched Winter Soldier.
 
I think, at least from that sequence, I knew Howard had died via HYDRA, but not directly from Bucky. Also, I took it with a grain of salt since it also said they killed Nick Fury.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
I think, at least from that sequence, I knew Howard had died via HYDRA, but not directly from Bucky. Also, I took it with a grain of salt since it also said they killed Nick Fury.
Well, at the time, they thought they had. This was before he was revealed to have faked his death, and it was Hydra assassins who attempted the hit.
 
I also didn't get to see Winter Soldier in the theater, so I already knew the A.o.S. spoiler before I saw the movie.
 
I think, at least from that sequence, I knew Howard had died via HYDRA, but not directly from Bucky. Also, I took it with a grain of salt since it also said they killed Nick Fury.
That is why in Civil War the first thing Steve said when Tony asked him was "I didn't know it was him." He knew HYDRA killed Tony's father from the encounter with Zola, but he didn't realize till the video that it was Bucky that carried out the hit. He was just as surprised as Tony in that regard.

The "yes" was that he knew, since Winter Soldier, that Tony's parents were murdered. Tony, up till the video, still thought his parents died in a car accident. It was entirely new to him, but not to Steve, since Zola showed him long ago. That is why the rage hit Tony so quickly, he lived all that time never knowing the truth, and he had it flung at him with the instrument of that act right next to him.

The letter at the end was Steve apologizing for not telling him about the murder sooner, bucky or no-bucky, he just didn't want Tony to know that his parents were murdered in cold blood, and he realized as a friend, he should have said something.
 
You know, there was one "revelation" that happened in Civil War that really comes out of left-field if you didn't watch Winter Soldier and really pay attention...

That Bucky was involved with the death of Tony Starks parents. When they watch the tape and Tony asks if Steve "knew", Steve says "I didn't know it was him." before Tony repeats himself with Steve admitting "Yes". For those that may not remember, in Winter Soldier, when Steve and Natasha head to the old SHIELD bunker and find the Zola computer, he stalls by telling them the story of HYDRA growing within SHIELD, and at one point he shows them a picture of Howard Stark's death and the line "accidents... will happen".

That single little blurb is the only reason Steve knew, since before that, Howard Stark's death was chalked up to a car accident since Iron Man 1. That one moment was the only lead up to Steve knowing about the murder, which is why when he admits to Tony that he "knew" about his parents it feels rather out of nowhere in the context of the movie.
I remember being surprised during Winter Soldier, but I totally forgot about that until now.

It didn't seem out of left field in Civil War anyway though. Tony asked Steve a question; Steve answered. I didn't wonder how Steve knew, I was just with Tony wondering if he knew.

I haven't seen anyone be confused by that moment in Civil War, but I'm going to guess you've seen them :p. Glad you brought it up; just another thing I can appreciate in Civil War.
 
I've seen a lot of people being surprised about that revelation, despite having seen Winter Soldier.

Even with the explanation, it's no wonder why many people went 'huh?' about the fact that Steve "knew". I mean, in Winter Soldier, all that is shown (in a timeframe of about 15 seconds) is that Zola suggests that Hydra was involved Howard Stark's death. Sure, it's an easy enough interpretation to imply what has happened, but it's not like this is definitive proof that Bucky killed Howard. It's just a conclusion that Steve apparently reached after connecting all the dots, and even he did not know for certain until he saw the same video that Tony saw (seeing as his first response was: "I didn't know it was him").

Sure, it makes sense now that we have time to go over it, but it's not strange that a lot of people had question marks on their faces about it during the movie (or even after).
 
I've seen a lot of people being surprised about that revelation, despite having seen Winter Soldier.

Even with the explanation, it's no wonder why many people went 'huh?' about the fact that Steve "knew". I mean, in Winter Soldier, all that is shown (in a timeframe of about 15 seconds) is that Zola suggests that Hydra was involved Howard Stark's death. Sure, it's an easy enough interpretation to imply what has happened, but it's not like this is definitive proof that Bucky killed Howard. It's just a conclusion that Steve apparently reached after connecting all the dots, and even he did not know for certain until he saw the same video that Tony saw (seeing as his first response was: "I didn't know it was him").

Sure, it makes sense now that we have time to go over it, but it's not strange that a lot of people had question marks on their faces about it during the movie (or even after).
But has anyone seen or interacted with someone who said they were confused at the time? Or is this just conjecture we're having? I've read and watched many more reviews than is healthy for a movie I'd already seen out of curiosity for how people were appreciating it (not enough!) and I don't mean just official ones. I'd never heard of someone being confused in that moment until Scythe's post. So again, have you guys encountered this or is it just a thing you're saying could happen, but was set up in a prior movie anyway? Because without that, it's a neat detail that everyone forgot, but wasn't necessarily confused about.
 
But has anyone seen or interacted with someone who said they were confused at the time? Or is this just conjecture we're having? I've read and watched many more reviews than is healthy for a movie I'd already seen out of curiosity for how people were appreciating it (not enough!) and I don't mean just official ones. I'd never heard of someone being confused in that moment until Scythe's post. So again, have you guys encountered this or is it just a thing you're saying could happen, but was set up in a prior movie anyway? Because without that, it's a neat detail that everyone forgot, but wasn't necessarily confused about.
Yes, I've actually seen and heard people being confused as to why Cap knew. And read plenty of reviews as well where people were stumbling on this particular point. When explained the reason, the general reaction was either "Ooooooh, so that was it!" or "uhmm okay, yes that must be it, I guess". They accept it because, well, it is plausible and no other explanation or reasoning is given. But in no way is it straight up proof that this is why Cap knew. All we do is infer and interpret reasons as to how Cap knew (or said that he knew).

The reason why this gets so much attention is that it directly divides Tony and Steve into opposite sides. If Steve didn't know, then he would be kind of a neutral party (not the Accords thing, but as friends. I mean, Tony went there to help Steve instead of arrest him, after all), trying to keep Tony and Bucky apart from each other. But he did, and for Tony that places Steve into enemy territory almost as much as Bucky. While Tony's still going after Bucky first and foremost, he doesn't shy away from dishing out a lot of hurt to Steve for keeping this secret (where he might've tried to just go around Steve or try to remove him from the battlefield if Steve didn't know). This is essentially the big plot twist of the movie, so it's not really surprising that people went 'but how did Cap know?'
 
I just love the precise placement and quality of the 1960's wilderness camera.
It was December 16, 1991. :p

Though yeah, I did quip to my friend "That is a very convenient camera out in the middle of nowhere. I wonder who owns it?"

Back on the whole knowing thing, all I am saying is that unless you watch a few quick seconds of Winter Soldier, that entire discussion seems out of nowhere. There are not any hints in Civil War about Steve knowing anything about the Stark murders, not a weird dream, not a discussion with Falcon about how he wished he told Tony the truth long ago, not even a little "almost convo" when Tony mentions how much his dad idolized Steve. Hell, even a scene after they capture him in the machine press, they could have Steve ask Bucky about things he learned during Winter Soldier and Bucky simply confirming them, which would make the interaction later feel more cohesive.

There is no build up to Steve knowing this huge secret, we just jump into the end and Steve says he knew. I talk with a lot of people that were extremely confused by that scene. "How did Steve know!?" So I just wanted to set the record straight on that info for people, here or elsewhere.
 
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Dave

Staff member
Yeah, because RDJ was that young in 1991. I know what the movie says but the years don't make any sense. I was joking about the 1960's stuff, obviously, but there's no way he was that young looking in 1991. He's older than I am. (By like 6 months...)
 
I mean, it was over 20 years ago, and Stark is probably not as old as RDJ actually is. I would figure he's supposed to be closer to mid-40's at the oldest.
 

Dave

Staff member
I guess it's because I'm old. The 1990's does not seem like they were 20 years ago. Still weird to have a camera in the wilderness that just HAPPENS to be at the right location for where they were going to crash, even if the crash was caused on purpose.
 
Yeah, because RDJ was that young in 1991. I know what the movie says but the years don't make any sense. I was joking about the 1960's stuff, obviously, but there's no way he was that young looking in 1991. He's older than I am. (By like 6 months...)
Of course RDJ was not that young back in 1991. The actors age does not automatically mean the characters age. That is why you have someone like Peter Parker as a high school kid played by a near 30 year old Andrew Garfield. I mean, go back and watch Ant-Man, how old would you say Scott Lang is? 35? Paul Rudd is in his late 40s getting close to 50 years old. The flashback was of Tony Stark back in 1991, not RDJ.

Based on the interactions of Tony and his parents, it seemed to me that Tony was supposed to be a deadbeat college age kid crashing with his parents because he has little drive in life. If we assume Civil War happens in 2016, then that is 25 years between 1991 and now. Even if we generously assume he was 20 in the flashback and not a bit older, that means he would be 45 as of Civil War, which fits just fine with RDJs general look on screen.
 
They did a bunch of special effects on RDJ to make him look younger on screen. I wouldn't go by his actual age.
 
Far as I know he's still in hiding after Winter Soldier/Ultron. He doesn't even get mentioned much in Agents of SHIELD now.
You know with that Inhuman menace and Hives return, it might have been nice if Nick gave back the Hellicarrier that Coulson was building and hiding for him back in Season 2. THANKS A LOT NICK!
 
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