Darkfall beta review @ "The Noob"

[Le Quack]

Ok, I'm sorry I call WoW a trash game(even though it is). But please don't frequent any more darkfall threads.

Olive Branch

Edit: You are kind of a prick for coming into the thread and talking WoW, when its obvious that people interested in Darkfall aren't interested in Wow.

K, that was my last jab.

Sorry =[

 

[ScytheRexx]

Ok, I'm sorry I call WoW a trash game(even though it is). But please don't frequent any more darkfall threads.

You could have done better then a sarcastic apology, in the end I will say it again.

You are wrong.

But ending on that, I will post in any Darkfall thread I wish, but to talk about Darkfall. Hopefully you can hold your ignorance and we can simply talk about that next time.

P.S. I only came into this thread because you called a game I enjoy "shit". What if I came into this thread and said...

"UO was a peice of crap, it was so bad that I could only play a few levels before the shallow PVP and boring PVE made me quit. Anyone that plays that game and pays for it is just addicted."

I would not say that, but would you really just sit there and be like "Oh, well I guess he is right, since he said so..." You would defend it, and I was simply doing that.

My first post in this thread had nothing to do with WoW at all, only that I worry about Darkfall succeeding, because frankly, evidence with most MMOs are not looking very bright these days (Tabula Rasa shutting down, AoC doing server mergers, WAR losing a lot of fans), it stinks.

 

[Shegokigo]

Honestly I wasn't even talking about WoW till you brought it up. :toocool:

None the less, olive brach recieved and accepted. I pretty much give a shot to most MMOs at some point or another (inbetween content patches of WoW usually) and will probably give Darkfall a shot. Hope it becomes UO pvp's second coming cause it might draw me from TF2. Might.

 

[Asenka]

There doesn't need to be profit or a reason to kill people. If that's the definition of griefing in a mmo, so be it. Open range pvp mmo's are made that way for a reason; to enable pvp.

It's griefing regardless of the rules. Killing someone pointlessly in a game is nothing more than causing grief to that person. Killing them to achieve a tangible goal, such as taking their money/loot, capturing an objective or denying your foe the ability to capture an objective is not griefing.

Example; I log on a toon made for more solo pvp rather than group based. the toon is quite fast on foot, so traversing the world map is fairly quick. i roam around looking for people, anyone, not in my guild, to kill. i find someone, i go after them, kill them if possible. if they have something in their inventory i can loot when they die, cool. if not *shrug* oh well, it was still fun killing them, and i move on to go kill someone else.

If that's the only pvp in the game, it's a shitty game and needs to be scrapped and redesigned. There needs to be a reason for pvp to exist other than to simply kill another player, rather than npc.

A well designed pvp game will have clear objectives for pvp combat. In fact, they should be the primary objectives of the entire game and be intricately linked to the storyline or in-game player driven events in a world where the players run everything and not the npc kingdoms.

 

[ElJuski]

Still sounds pretty fun to me. *shrug*

 

[Rubicon]

Ok, I'm sorry I call WoW a trash game(even though it is). But please don't frequent any more darkfall threads.

You could have done better then a sarcastic apology, in the end I will say it again.

You are wrong.

But ending on that, I will post in any Darkfall thread I wish, but to talk about Darkfall. Hopefully you can hold your ignorance and we can simply talk about that next time.

P.S. I only came into this thread because you called a game I enjoy "shit". What if I came into this thread and said...

"UO was a peice of crap, it was so bad that I could only play a few levels before the shallow PVP and boring PVE made me quit. Anyone that plays that game and pays for it is just addicted."

I would not say that, but would you really just sit there and be like "Oh, well I guess he is right, since he said so..." You would defend it, and I was simply doing that.

My first post in this thread had nothing to do with WoW at all, only that I worry about Darkfall succeeding, because frankly, evidence with most MMOs are not looking very bright these days (Tabula Rasa shutting down, AoC doing server mergers, WAR losing a lot of fans), it stinks.

Actually to be fair, I can understand him asking the thing about Darkfall threads. I steer clear of any WoW threads really. I think it's a god awful game and there is nothing I can contribute to its discussion. Maybe, consider the same?

 

[Rubicon]

It's griefing regardless of the rules. Killing someone pointlessly in a game is nothing more than causing grief to that person. Killing them to achieve a tangible goal, such as taking their money/loot, capturing an objective or denying your foe the ability to capture an objective is not griefing.

If that's the only pvp in the game, it's a shitty game and needs to be scrapped and redesigned. There needs to be a reason for pvp to exist other than to simply kill another player, rather than npc.

A well designed pvp game will have clear objectives for pvp combat. In fact, they should be the primary objectives of the entire game and be intricately linked to the storyline or in-game player driven events in a world where the players run everything and not the npc kingdoms.

Yea...you're just hitting a brick wall of ignorance here.

There are no fucking rules in a open pvp game. Aside from actually hacking, cheating or duping or something lame like that, anything is open. You kill, who you want, when you want too. There is no ruleset. There is no "omg you're killing me before i can get back to my grave, waaaah im calling in a GM" bullshit. You fight or you die.

If I want to log into UO or SB right now, roam around and kill someone for no reason, IT'S NOT GRIEFING. Why? THE GAME IS MADE THAT WAY. And even if it weren't made that way? I'd still do it. Why? Cause it's within the power of the player to do so. Guess what, you don't want any kind of chance for a player to kill you? Play on a server, or game, made for PvE.

There are clear goals in some pvp oriented games. Here's a non SB example; Archlord. Each period of X time, the major guilds of a server fight for the status of "Archlord". The winning guild has one person become "Archlord" who basically dominates the entire server. He gets a shit load of extra stuff no one else gets on the server. Items, weapons, pvp bonuses, etc.

A good SB example is; world control. While you don't gain specific items, controlling vast quantities of the player driven world map in terms of player cities and access to high end mobs and items? Yea that's a damn good goal. You are constantly fighting for control over these areas, and whoever can basically take over the most, pretty much wins. Think of it like, Risk, with an fantasy rpg element tossed in. And skill instead of a dice roll.

I could have told you 8 years ago when EQ was huge, pvp is the real endgame content of a mmorpg. After it's all said and done developers are gonna stop making new content for a mmo aside from bug fixes. At that point it's up to the players to generate their own fun. guess what? some mmo's give us this off the bat. yea SB has a fraction of the population WoW does but ya know what? I dont need to do a million quests and grind for months and months on end to reach level cap or get the best items. I can do this within a day if I absolutely have to. Then it's bread and butter time. Gank some noobs.

No one is asking you to play these games or like them. But if you log into one, prepare to die at any given second outside one of the extreme few safe zones. And by prepare I mean, accept it and don't complain.

 

[Shegokigo]

I think it's a god awful game

That right there, is the difference between civil conversation and belligerent trolling. "I think" and "It's".

 

[ScytheRexx]

Actually to be fair, I can understand him asking the thing about Darkfall threads. I steer clear of any WoW threads really. I think it's a god awful game and there is nothing I can contribute to its discussion. Maybe, consider the same?

If I really disliked the game, I would, but while I may not have interest now, I may later if they alter it a bit. The fact is I have yet to actually play it, and so who knows what will happen down the line. I am not going to avoid a thread about a game unless I have zero interest, but at least I don't bad mouth a game I don't like just to make myself feel special.

Shadowbane for instance, is a game that I do avoid talking about since I lost interest in it a long time ago, I even gave you that courtesy by not saying one thing about it in your promotion thread for the game. I am not about badmouthing other MMOs, but I will defend one that I find enjoyable from opinionated insults played off like facts, just as I expect you to do should someone badmouth Shadowbane.

 

[Le Quack]

Actually to be fair, I can understand him asking the thing about Darkfall threads. I steer clear of any WoW threads really. I think it's a god awful game and there is nothing I can contribute to its discussion. Maybe, consider the same?

If I really disliked the game, I would, but while I may not have interest now, I may later if they alter it a bit. The fact is I have yet to actually play it, and so who knows what will happen down the line. I am not going to avoid a thread about a game unless I have zero interest, but at least I don't bad mouth a game I don't like just to make myself feel special.

Shadowbane for instance, is a game that I do avoid talking about since I lost interest in it a long time ago, I even gave you that courtesy by not saying one thing about it in your promotion thread for the game. I am not about badmouthing other MMOs, but I will defend one that I find enjoyable from opinionated insults played off like facts, just as I expect you to do should someone badmouth Shadowbane.

Damn, you really are holding a vendetta.

You can't accept my sarcastic appology as a way to save face?

You sadist, you!

 

[Cat]

Edit: So who wants to give me a summary on Darkfall even though I'm not going to play it anyway due to my belief that paying a large fee for monthly access is for suckers? Is it a grindest? Is there any player skill involved? Could I attempt to kill anyone? Is there content besides attacking randoms to keep me occupied?

 

[Rubicon]

 

[ScytheRexx]

You can't accept my sarcastic appology as a way to save face?

I never had any face to save, nice try though. :teeth:

 

[Rubicon]

Edit: So who wants to give me a summary on Darkfall even though I'm not going to play it anyway due to my belief that paying a large fee for monthly access is for suckers? Is it a grindest? Is there any player skill involved? Could I attempt to kill anyone? Is there content besides attacking randoms to keep me occupied?

it's open range pvp.

meaning there are extremely few, if any, "safe" zones where pvp is not allowed.

you can kill anyone, even people within your own faction, though like UO, you'll get decreased faction sympathy for killing your own faction or allies there of. this simply means you can't use faction cities or related stuff. you'll still be able to use a guild city and guild npc's.

you can have mounts and mount combat.

you can have naval combat, for pirates and other naval stuff. you can launch warfare onto ports with your ships, including player built cities on shorelines.

you can steal just about anything, from anyone, including mounts and ships.

the world map is controlled by the players, the server politics for factions are dictating by the players. you build player cities and wage siege warfare on player built cities.

you drop, i think, everything when you die. you are fully lootable. there are consequences to death, and rewards for killing.

its kill or be killed in a balls to the wall arena of pwnage. no waiting in line, no set zones specifically set aside for pvp where the rest of the world is pve...it's pvp bliss in a bottle basically.

 

[Cat]

Sounds great so far. So is there going to be no questing/adventuring like in shadowbane?

 

[Skrattybones]

you can have naval combat, for pirates and other naval stuff. you can launch warfare onto ports with your ships, including player built cities on shorelines.

This GREATLY interests me. When's it out, how much's it gonna cost, and how many people want to join my "Skrat's Scavengers"?

 

[Rubicon]

Sounds great so far. So is there going to be no questing/adventuring like in shadowbane?

uh, no. and SB had 0 questing and adventuring. you killed mobs to lvl or also pvp'd to lvl, though traditional mob killing is quicker.

you just go out, kill stuff, level up. pvp whenever the situation calls for it or you want to.

no questing, no raiding, none of that.

 

[Rubicon]

you can have naval combat, for pirates and other naval stuff. you can launch warfare onto ports with your ships, including player built cities on shorelines.

This GREATLY interests me. When's it out, how much's it gonna cost, and how many people want to join my "Skrat's Scavengers"?

Euro launch is at the end of this coming January, with a NA launch to follow at some point. Probably $15 a month.

 

[Le Quack]

You can't accept my sarcastic appology as a way to save face?

I never had any face to save, nice try though. :teeth:

God you are so fucking self centered. I wanted you to accept my appology so I'd save face. God damn.

I guess you really are a fuckin Sadist. You are so fucking raged you can't even realized I'm trying to bow out of this. Fuck man, lighten up. I did.

 

[ScytheRexx]

God you are so fucking self centered. I wanted you to accept my appology so I'd save face. God damn.

I guess you really are a fuckin Sadist. You are so fucking raged you can't even realized I'm trying to bow out of this. Fuck man, lighten up. I did.

Rage would require actual anger, which I feel none towards anyone in this thread. But I can respect you want to bow you, so I accept the apology.

Now, let this thread continue as it should of, about Darkfall.

Merry Christmas! :heythere:

 

[Shawn]

[quote="Le Quack":2eexzspk]You can't accept my sarcastic appology as a way to save face?

I never had any face to save, nice try though. :teeth:

God you are so fucking self centered. I wanted you to accept my appology so I'd save face. God damn.

I guess you really are a fuckin Sadist. You are so fucking raged you can't even realized I'm trying to bow out of this. Fuck man, lighten up. I did.[/quote:2eexzspk]
*slaps Le Quack and makes dad turn the car around.*

 

[Asenka]

Yea...you're just hitting a brick wall of ignorance here.

Nope, I'd say you're the ignorant one here. A PvP game where there's no point to PvP other than killing another player is a completely worthless and shitty game.

If I want to log into UO or SB right now, roam around and kill someone for no reason, IT'S NOT GRIEFING. Why? THE GAME IS MADE THAT WAY.

Sorry, but you're wrong. 100% wrong. Killing someone for no reason other than to kill them is griefing. Unless there's a valid, in-game reason to kill someone, you're just pointlessly murdering someone and causing them grief.

And even if it weren't made that way? I'd still do it. Why? Cause it's within the power of the player to do so. Guess what, you don't want any kind of chance for a player to kill you? Play on a server, or game, made for PvE.

Your ignorance is showing here again. If the game is about PvP, there should be a reason for people to PvP. There should be clear objectives other than simply murdering each other. If I just wanted to kill other players and not AI, I'd go play Death Match FPS games where killing each other is the only goal. MMO's are not meant to be played like a Death Match FPS.

A good SB example is; world control. While you don't gain specific items, controlling vast quantities of the player driven world map in terms of player cities and access to high end mobs and items? Yea that's a damn good goal. You are constantly fighting for control over these areas, and whoever can basically take over the most, pretty much wins. Think of it like, Risk, with an fantasy rpg element tossed in. And skill instead of a dice roll.

I'm pretty sure that randomly killing people for no reason at all in a random area has no bearing on World Control. If it does, it's a shitty design for a shitty game.

No one is asking you to play these games or like them. But if you log into one, prepare to die at any given second outside one of the extreme few safe zones. And by prepare I mean, accept it and don't complain.

Once more, you're showing your ignorance. At what point did I ever say I wanted safe zones or safe areas or anything of the sort? Stop attributing bullshit to me, that I didn't say. Get a fucking clue already.

I would love to have a well designed PvP game, where everyone is on equal footing and the goal is simply control. Skill and tactics become the method by which you advance your sides agenda. Not level or gear.

 

[Krisken]

Carry on. I want to see Fanboys, and I figure this is the gamer version of it.

 

This argument will never be resolved until we all have one of these:

 

[Rubicon]

Sorry, but you're wrong. 100% wrong. Killing someone for no reason other than to kill them is griefing. Unless there's a valid, in-game reason to kill someone, you're just pointlessly murdering someone and causing them grief.

MMO's are not meant to be played like a Death Match FPS.

Would you care to ask the developers of UO or Shadowbane, about the griefing thing? They will fucking tell you, killing people for no reason at all, is perfectly acceptable in their games.

As for death match style mmo's: Guild Wars. While it's not a true MMORPG, it's a CORPG (competitive online rpg), and it's pvp is quite death match oriented, even completely randomized if you want it to be. It isn't an open world but it certainly fits a death match mmo description.

You can not like these games all you want but calling us griefers in a game built for open pvp..is just lame.

 

[Asenka]

Would you care to ask the developers of UO or Shadowbane, about the griefing thing? They will fucking tell you, killing people for no reason at all, is perfectly acceptable in their games.

I don't care what the devs say. It's griefing. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.

You can not like these games all you want but calling us griefers in a game built for open pvp..is just lame.

Truth hurts, doesn't it? You're a griefer if you just randomly kill someone for no reason other than to kill them. Doesn't have anything at all to do with the rules or lack thereof. You're a self-admitted griefer. When I PvP, I PvP with a purpose. A reason. I hunt down foes to claim a control point or deny them access to something that would give them an advantage.

Merely killing them when they can just run back and respawn isn't reason enough for me to kill someone.

edit - And once again, you're completely missing the fucking point. God damn... spend less time hating and more time reading and comprehending. I never said I didn't like pvp games you fucking dumbass. Stop dribbling stupidity all over your keyboard. "You can not like these games..." <-- That right there. You're a moron. I never said I didn't like pvp games.

 

[Skrattybones]

Dev Team Guy #1: Hey guys, let's make a game where anybody can kill anybody, at any time.
Dev Team Guy #2: Man, that is a sweet idea!
Players: NO THATS GRIEFING :waah:


edit:

Dev Team Guy #1: Hey guys, let's make a driving game where you can crash your car for points.
Dev Team Guy #2: Man, that is a sweet idea!
Players: CRASHING IS BAD STOP IT :waah:

 

[Cat]

 

[Asenka]

Oh look, more dribbling. ::wipes Skrattys chin with a wet nap::

A game can have open range pvp and still have griefing. Griefing is independent of the game itself, unless the devs specifically forbid ganking/camping and other similar means of griefing someone. You're still causing grief to someone if you corpse camp them, kill them when they pose no challenge at all, or continually hunt them down. Once again, it doesn't matter if the game allows it, it's still causing grief to someone. That makes you a griefer if you do it.

It's griefers that ruin open pvp games and it's their behavior that led to RvR combat like in DAoC and the battlegrounds on PvE servers like in WoW. It's not a matter of being able to choose when to PvP, but having fun doing it without worrying about some jackass corpse camping them for no reason other than to cause grief.

edit - I love a fair fight. Even if I lose. That's why I think levels should be eliminated from pvp mmo's. Put skill back into the game and get rid of the level grind. That won't happen though, because then the griefers wouldn't be able to grief and they wouldn't play.

 

[Rubicon]

edit - And once again, you're completely missing the fucking point. God damn... spend less time hating and more time reading and comprehending. I never said I didn't like pvp games you fucking dumbass. Stop dribbling stupidity all over your keyboard. "You can not like these games..." <-- That right there. You're a moron. I never said I didn't like pvp games.

eh, moral high ground is mine here. i didnt resort to personal insults lol

rofl at the "it's still griefing even if the developers intended the game to be played this way" argument

 

[Asenka]

Just because the game allows you to kill anyone at any time doesn't make it not griefing. It's the circumstances around the kill that define it as griefing or as a legitimate kill. As for the moral high ground, you lost that the moment you admitted to being a lame griefer.

 

[Skrattybones]

Except you're arguing "griefing" as in the definition created inside of World of Warcraft. It's griefing there, but they've got lots of stuff in place to keep it from happening. When it does happen, it's griefing.

If you report it, maybe you can even get a GM to come help you 'cause you can't stay alive.

Darkfall? You'd be laughed off the servers for crying about a feature.

 

[Cat]

I used to play gta san andreas multiplayer and even in a game like that there were a ton a whiners crying about people killing them or stealing their riced out car and driving it into the water. I was banned for blowing up a couple of guys in a van that were blocking an area vital to gun dealers just to be douchebags because they said I was griefing.

 

[Rubicon]

Just because the game allows you to kill anyone at any time doesn't make it not griefing. It's the circumstances around the kill that define it as griefing or as a legitimate kill. As for the moral high ground, you lost that the moment you admitted to being a lame griefer.

Yes, the game allowing you to kill anywhere any time kind of negates any grief factor. Hell when you reach a certain level in Shadowbane the game itself tells you "beware you can now be attack or be attacked by other players"...kinda self explanatory.

and nope, the high ground is looking good up here. i didnt resort calling you a dumbass simply because of your play style or choice of game.

victory is mine!

 

[Le Quack]

Yea...you're just hitting a brick wall of ignorance here.

Nope, I'd say you're the ignorant one here. A PvP game where there's no point to PvP other than killing another player is a completely worthless and shitty game.

If I want to log into UO or SB right now, roam around and kill someone for no reason, IT'S NOT GRIEFING. Why? THE GAME IS MADE THAT WAY.

Sorry, but you're wrong. 100% wrong. Killing someone for no reason other than to kill them is griefing. Unless there's a valid, in-game reason to kill someone, you're just pointlessly murdering someone and causing them grief.

[quote:39xlrj0i]And even if it weren't made that way? I'd still do it. Why? Cause it's within the power of the player to do so. Guess what, you don't want any kind of chance for a player to kill you? Play on a server, or game, made for PvE.

Your ignorance is showing here again. If the game is about PvP, there should be a reason for people to PvP. There should be clear objectives other than simply murdering each other. If I just wanted to kill other players and not AI, I'd go play Death Match FPS games where killing each other is the only goal. MMO's are not meant to be played like a Death Match FPS.

A good SB example is; world control. While you don't gain specific items, controlling vast quantities of the player driven world map in terms of player cities and access to high end mobs and items? Yea that's a damn good goal. You are constantly fighting for control over these areas, and whoever can basically take over the most, pretty much wins. Think of it like, Risk, with an fantasy rpg element tossed in. And skill instead of a dice roll.

I'm pretty sure that randomly killing people for no reason at all in a random area has no bearing on World Control. If it does, it's a shitty design for a shitty game.

No one is asking you to play these games or like them. But if you log into one, prepare to die at any given second outside one of the extreme few safe zones. And by prepare I mean, accept it and don't complain.

Once more, you're showing your ignorance. At what point did I ever say I wanted safe zones or safe areas or anything of the sort? Stop attributing bullshit to me, that I didn't say. Get a fucking clue already.

I would love to have a well designed PvP game, where everyone is on equal footing and the goal is simply control. Skill and tactics become the method by which you advance your sides agenda. Not level or gear.[/quote:39xlrj0i]

WoW Fanboy. This is a darkfall thread!

Go waste some more of your life. =x

Just because the game allows you to kill anyone at any time doesn't make it not griefing. It's the circumstances around the kill that define it as griefing or as a legitimate kill. As for the moral high ground, you lost that the moment you admitted to being a lame griefer.

Darkfall allows for full looting options. How about killing somebody to take all their stuff? Thats for an advantage.