Dear Cambridge Police...STFU

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Chazwozel

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/24/office ... topstories

CAMBRIDGE, Massachusetts (CNN) -- President Obama should apologize to members of the Cambridge Police Department for saying they acted stupidly, the president of the city's police union said Friday.
Sgt. Jim Crowley says he is disappointed President Obama opined on the matter without having all the facts.

Sgt. Jim Crowley says he is disappointed President Obama opined on the matter without having all the facts.
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Dennis O'Connor, president of the Cambridge Police Superior Officers Association, said at a news conference that Obama should not have criticized officers' actions in last week's arrest of Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates Jr.

Sgt. James Crowley, the officer who arrested Gates for disorderly conduct, has previously said he was dismayed by the president's remarks and that Obama had offended police in Cambridge and elsewhere.

\"I was a little surprised and disappointed that the president, who didn't have all of the facts by his own admission, then weighed in on the events of that night and made a comment that really offended not just officers in the Cambridge Police Department but officers around the country,\" Crowley told CNN affiliate WHDH-TV in Boston.

Obama, however, stood by his comment, saying he is \"surprised by the controversy surrounding\" it.

\"I think it was a pretty straightforward commentary that you probably don't need to handcuff a guy, a middle-aged man who uses a cane, who's in his own home,\" Obama told ABC's \"Nightline.\" Video Watch Crowley's boss defend the arrest »

When Obama waded into the story by answering a question about it during his news conference Wednesday night, he admitted that he \"may be a little biased\" because Gates is a friend.
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\"I don't know all the facts,\" he also conceded.

He said he did not know what role race played, but \"the Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home.\"

Crowley, in the police report about the incident, said Gates refused to cooperate with him and repeatedly accusing him of racism when he went to Gates' home following a report of a possible break-in July 16.

Crowley said he tried to determine whether there was someone else at the home and wanted to ensure Gates' safety.

Gates, however, told him \"that I had no idea who I was 'messing' with\" and was being so loud that he could not give pertinent information to the department when he was calling in, the sergeant said.

Authorities have said they may release tapes of the officer calling in, in which Gates is heard in the background

Crowley's report said that when he asked to speak with Gates outside, the professor at one point responded, \"I'll speak with your mama outside.\" Video Watch Crowley's response »

Gates' attorney, Charles Ogletree, said the professor never made such a remark.

The full story will show that Gates did nothing wrong -- and that Crowley did not identify himself at first, Ogletree said.

Gates said Wednesday he would listen to Crowley \"if he would tell the truth about what he did, about the distortions that he fabricated in the police report. I would be prepared as a human being to forgive him.\"

Crowley has said he will not apologize. The police incident report states that Crowley twice provided his name to Gates, who subsequently asked for it two more times.

Gates ultimately was arrested for disorderly conduct, but the department later dropped the charges.

Cambridge police Commissioner Robert Haas said he \"deeply regrets\" the arrest but stands by the procedures his department followed.

\"I trust [Crowley's] judgment implicitly. He is a stellar officer,\" Haas said.

He added the department is \"very proud about its diversity within this community and how hard we've worked over the years to build a strong, solid relationship [between] the department and the community.\"

Haas said he agreed with Crowley about Obama's remarks.

\"I have to tell you the officers take that very personally and basically feel hurt by that comment. We truly are trying to do the best service we can to the community and sometimes we make mistakes. We're human. But we learn from those mistakes and we move on,\" he said.

Numerous police officers, including African-Americans, have spoken up on Crowley's behalf and portrayed him as a good and fair officer. Crowley, who is white, had once been chosen by a black police officer to teach a police academy course on ways to avoid racial profiling.

Obama said he had heard of Crowley's record, saying, \"I don't know all the extenuating circumstances, and as I said, I respect what police officers do. From what I can tell, the sergeant who was involved is an outstanding police officer, but my suspicion is probably it would have been better if cooler heads prevailed.\"

Gates' legal team argues that authorities are misrepresenting the professor and the officer, and Gates has said he is determined to keep the issue alive despite the charges being dropped.

\"This is not about me; this is about the vulnerability of black men in America,\" he said this week.

Ogletree said Gates might sue the department and would bring forward witnesses who say they've had similar experiences with Crowley.
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When asked for examples, Ogletree said only that they may come out in time depending on how the police department handles the situation moving forward.

\"I think you will be hearing much more complex and different perspective on him [Crowley] in the coming days and weeks,\" Ogletree said, alleging that Crowley \"is well-known among people, particularly young people, for some of his police practices.\"
Normally I side with the police in terms of tasers on naked wizards and other assholes, but seriously this cop and his prescient are a bunch of moronic bullies who are getting called out on their ignorance and stupidity. You don't just arrest a dignified scholar in his own home for stupid reasons. I'm not saying that Dr. Gates is above the law, but he clearly showed it was his house, and the cop was NOT needed there any further. He should have FUCKING LEFT, GATES'S HOUSE after it was established that it was his home. I fully understand why Gates would become irate after a long business trip, having to bust open his own door, and then being bothered by a bully cop who refuses to leave his property.
 
Yeah, from everything I've seen on the incident so far, I really have to side with the professor on this one. I don't understand why the officer was so adamant about there being "No apology", either. Saying that in front of a bunch of reporters just blew things up.

And for the police being insulted about Obama using the word "stupid" to describe the arrest, not the officer himself, just the actions, it seems to me like a legitimate way to describe it. It looks like a bunch of stupid decisions on the officer's part.
 
The cops were in the process of leaving when Gates pursued them outside of his home and continued screaming. Had Gates remained in his house the cops would have left within moments without him in the back of the cruiser.
 
Dubyamn said:
The cops were in the process of leaving when Gates pursued them outside of his home and continued screaming. Had Gates remained in his house the cops would have left within moments without him in the back of the cruiser.
You're the first person I've seen describe it like this. Is there somewhere I can read it from this perspective (neutral news source, preferably)?
 
C

Chibibar

Chazwozel said:
Normally I side with the police in terms of tasers on naked wizards and other assholes, but seriously this cop and his prescient are a bunch of moronic bullies who are getting called out on their ignorance and stupidity. You don't just arrest a dignified scholar in his own home for stupid reasons. I'm not saying that Dr. Gates is above the law, but he clearly showed it was his house, and the cop was NOT needed there any further. He should have FUCKING LEFT, GATES'S HOUSE after it was established that it was his home. I fully understand why Gates would become irate after a long business trip, having to bust open his own door, and then being bothered by a bully cop who refuses to leave his property.
I been following this since yesterday, but with current facts (at least what is reported)

1. Gates DID break into his own home cause the lock was broken/not working/lost keys (not sure which but he had to)
2. Neighbor called the cops seeing a person (not recognizing the person) breaking into the home.
3. Police arrive on the call and question the "suspect"
4. After learning that Gates is the owner couple of things should have happen.

Cop side
1. Should have just report that it was false alarm and go home. There is no break in. I don't think it is against the law to break into YOUR own home (especially if you prove it)
2. Should have just let the guy vent and leave.


Gates (being a professor)
1. should have kept his cool, but I guess after a long trip and having to break into YOUR own home, well... I would not be in the best of moods at the time
2. Should have realize (being an intelligent man) that the cop is doing his duty and let the cop go (of course the allege name calling happening here which we still don't have proof yet. It is all "He said, he said"

both are being a dick, but the "cooler head" should have been the cop and just let it go.

Now.... we do have some officers on the forum, do you agree with my assessment?
 
Unfortunately there is no neutral news source that has any kind of story that isn't directly lifted from Gates' lawyer or from the official report. There is only one news story that I found that had any kind of witness statement but the only thing the witness said was that Gates was belligerent and was yelling.

http://www.theroot.com/views/lawyers-st ... s-gates-jr

Lawyer's version of events

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/ye ... ates1.html

Police report.

I go with the police reports version of events because it actually makes sense to me. Gates' version of events just doesn't.
 
S

Singularity.EXE

I have to ask, unless I'm missing it, where does the officer learn that Gates is the actual owner of the home? From the police report, and other news stories I have read, they claim that Gates refused to show ID as he was too busy accusing the officer of racism.
 
Krisken said:
Dubyamn said:
The cops were in the process of leaving when Gates pursued them outside of his home and continued screaming. Had Gates remained in his house the cops would have left within moments without him in the back of the cruiser.
You're the first person I've seen describe it like this. Is there somewhere I can read it from this perspective (neutral news source, preferably)?
Every time I've read the story, that is how it is described. The cops were called to the scene of a break in. They ask for credentials to prove that the man in the house belonged there. Gates starts screaming at the cops about being profiled, wanting the badge # of the cop. Which btw is on his badge. The officer refused to give his badge #, which again is in plain sight. The cop leaves, and Dr. Gates follows him outside and continues to insult the cop. The photo on Yahoo news looks to back up the cop's story. There was even another African American cop on the scene.

Cops are normally expected to take shit of the people that they are trying to protect, but they don't have to.

Gates did not need to be arrested, but at some point a cop does not need to have his mother insulted.

-- Fri Jul 24, 2009 12:49 pm --

Singularity.EXE said:
I have to ask, unless I'm missing it, where does the officer learn that Gates is the actual owner of the home? From the police report, and other news stories I have read, they claim that Gates refused to show ID as he was too busy accusing the officer of racism.
Right, it sounded like the cop was the one getting bullied by a celebrity professor at one of the world's best colleges.
 
sixpackshaker said:
Krisken said:
Dubyamn said:
The cops were in the process of leaving when Gates pursued them outside of his home and continued screaming. Had Gates remained in his house the cops would have left within moments without him in the back of the cruiser.
You're the first person I've seen describe it like this. Is there somewhere I can read it from this perspective (neutral news source, preferably)?
Every time I've read the story, that is how it is described.
Yeah, outside of the lawyer I haven't heard any other version.
 
S

Singularity.EXE

Holy shit, I just read the lawyer's statement. Are you fucking kidding me?

I want to hear something from the witnesses, it seemed like there should be a lot of them.
 
This story and this http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/07/24/ ... index.html seem to highlight a distressing trend in the lat 30 years of police conduct. All to often it seems situations escalate to quickly to violence/subduing the perp by any means necessary when instead talking 2 minutes to talk to all parties involved would save a ton of hassle and paperwork.

"But officer I was just...ZAPZAPZAP*PEPPERSPRAY*ZAPZAPZAP"

"I SAID BACK AWAY!!!!!"

Is it standard SOP these days to taser/spray/shoot people into submission haul them off to jail and then sort the shit out?
 
rac3r_x said:
Is it standard SOP these days to taser/spray/shoot people into submission haul them off to jail and then sort the poop out?
I must have missed that, did they do any of that to him? Sounded to me like they just handcuffed him for disorderly conduct, which if it's true is well within their rights to do so.
 
Espy said:
rac3r_x said:
Is it standard SOP these days to taser/spray/shoot people into submission haul them off to jail and then sort the poop out?
I must have missed that, did they do any of that to him? Sounded to me like they just handcuffed him for disorderly conduct, which if it's true is well within their rights to do so.
No that last part is not referring to Gates but to the trend I have seen lately in most stories about people detained wrongfully by police.
 
rac3r_x said:
This story and this http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/07/24/ ... index.html seem to highlight a distressing trend in the lat 30 years of police conduct. All to often it seems situations escalate to quickly to violence/subduing the perp by any means necessary when instead talking 2 minutes to talk to all parties involved would save a ton of hassle and paperwork.

\"But officer I was just...ZAPZAPZAP*PEPPERSPRAY*ZAPZAPZAP\"

\"I SAID BACK AWAY!!!!!\"

Is it standard SOP these days to taser/spray/shoot people into submission haul them off to jail and then sort the poop out?
So we should be celebrating that the cop was a professional all the way through the incident? I mean the cop never reached for or drew a weapon and was able to cuff him without incident. To top it off he tried multiple times to calm the situation down and was actually leaving while Gates pursued and made a scene.
 

Neither side did what they should have. And Obama should have not answered the question as he ends up looking like a tool no matter which way he answered it. His answer should have been, "The incident was unfortunate but at this time I think commenting would be premature."

End of story.
 
C

Chibibar

Edrondol said:
Neither side did what they should have. And Obama should have not answered the question as he ends up looking like a tool no matter which way he answered it. His answer should have been, "The incident was unfortunate but at this time I think commenting would be premature."

End of story.
^-- agree

While I can see that being a friend would normally take your friend's word, but the president has a "higher image" and should be careful of every action (I mean the new talk about Obama's jean for crying out loud)
 
Edrondol said:
Neither side did what they should have. And Obama should have not answered the question as he ends up looking like a tool no matter which way he answered it. His answer should have been, "The incident was unfortunate but at this time I think commenting would be premature."

End of story.
It kinda seemed like they wanted the last question to take the lead to me. Maybe not, but the White House is pretty damn media savvy these days...
 
I can't say if they did things right or wrong really, I wasn't there. I will say this, I agree with Ed, Obama should have kept his nose out of this, it was terribly unprofessional of him.
 
C

Chibibar

Espy said:
I can't say if they did things right or wrong really, I wasn't there. I will say this, I agree with Ed, Obama should have kept his nose out of this, it was terribly unprofessional of him.
I was kind of shock on how quickly Obama commented on this matter. He usually is very careful about these kind of things.
 
Chibibar said:
Espy said:
I can't say if they did things right or wrong really, I wasn't there. I will say this, I agree with Ed, Obama should have kept his nose out of this, it was terribly unprofessional of him.
I was kind of shock on how quickly Obama commented on this matter. He usually is very careful about these kind of things.
All the more reason I think it may have been intentional. Obama prefaced his calling on the last reporter by saying he'd promised one last question to her. If intentional, it was either to take focus of a healthcare debate that is directionless or to put focus on race relations. I'd guess the former but maybe it was all just a cock up.
 
MindDetective said:
It kinda seemed like they wanted the last question to take the lead to me. Maybe not, but the White House is pretty damn media savvy these days...
I don't know if Obama or some other democrat had been having some kind of scandal I think he would have loved to get America interested in some other shiney ball. but nobody was investigating a scandel or anything else. As it is Obama spent all of that night talking about his health care reforms. How it'll lower costs, bring healthcare to millions and cause us to live longer healthier lives.

Then in 3 minutes he managed to destroy all that because nobody cares what he said about health care reform. For the same effect he could have spent the night eating Bon-Bons watching sportscenter and then write it up and give it to his press secretary to read for him and we would have no different news coverage right now.

And he's not going to be able to get back on message because he has the Police union sending him open letters, the cop talking back in the press and police across the country shaking their heads at him.
 
G

GeneralOrder24

Sounds to me like the man was a total dick in this situation. The man kept asking for his name, and just talked over him when he went to give it. The officer went to leave, and the man followed him out and became more irate. As there was already a crowd of people there, the cop warned the man twice that he was being disorderly. When he was arresting the man, the man said he couldn't walk without his cane so he moved the cuffs to the front so he could hold his cane.

Oh yeah, sounds totally racist to me. The cop definitley needs to apologize now.....twice for good measure.
 
rac3r_x said:
This story and this http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/07/24/ ... index.html seem to highlight a distressing trend in the lat 30 years of police conduct. All to often it seems situations escalate to quickly to violence/subduing the perp by any means necessary when instead talking 2 minutes to talk to all parties involved would save a ton of hassle and paperwork.

\"But officer I was just...ZAPZAPZAP*PEPPERSPRAY*ZAPZAPZAP\"

\"I SAID BACK AWAY!!!!!\"

Is it standard SOP these days to taser/spray/shoot people into submission haul them off to jail and then sort the poop out?
Just read the number of names that get added to America's Peace Officer's Memorial each year to figure out why cops will put people to the ground so fast.
 
MindDetective said:
Chibibar said:
Espy said:
I can't say if they did things right or wrong really, I wasn't there. I will say this, I agree with Ed, Obama should have kept his nose out of this, it was terribly unprofessional of him.
I was kind of shock on how quickly Obama commented on this matter. He usually is very careful about these kind of things.
All the more reason I think it may have been intentional. Obama prefaced his calling on the last reporter by saying he'd promised one last question to her. If intentional, it was either to take focus of a healthcare debate that is directionless or to put focus on race relations. I'd guess the former but maybe it was all just a * up.
Wasn't it just recently that they were caught basically planting questions from the Huffpo? I think he knew exactly what was going on when he called on that reporter.
 
C

Chazwozel

Singularity.EXE said:
I have to ask, unless I'm missing it, where does the officer learn that Gates is the actual owner of the home? From the police report, and other news stories I have read, they claim that Gates refused to show ID as he was too busy accusing the officer of racism.

Gates showed him his School badge and driver's license.
 

This just in:

CNN said:
Obama speaks to police officer in Gates case

WASHINGTON (CNN) — President Barack Obama said Friday he spoke with the police officer who arrested a Harvard professor and told the officer that he did not mean to malign the Cambridge Police Department.

I call bullshit. What else does "they acted stupidly" mean?
 

GasBandit

Staff member
Chazwozel said:
Singularity.EXE said:
I have to ask, unless I'm missing it, where does the officer learn that Gates is the actual owner of the home? From the police report, and other news stories I have read, they claim that Gates refused to show ID as he was too busy accusing the officer of racism.

Gates showed him his School badge and driver's license.
From what I read, he refused at first to show any ID, but when the handcuffs came out so did the school ID... but by then it's too late to un-disorderly yourself.
 
GasBandit said:
Chazwozel said:
Singularity.EXE said:
I have to ask, unless I'm missing it, where does the officer learn that Gates is the actual owner of the home? From the police report, and other news stories I have read, they claim that Gates refused to show ID as he was too busy accusing the officer of racism.

Gates showed him his School badge and driver's license.
From what I read, he refused at first to show any ID, but when the handcuffs came out so did the school ID... but by then it's too late to un-disorderly yourself.
If that is true then yeah, he made a mistake and had to pay for it. You act like a dick to cops and surprise! You go to jail.
 
Edrondol said:
This just in:

CNN said:
Obama speaks to police officer in Gates case

WASHINGTON (CNN) — President Barack Obama said Friday he spoke with the police officer who arrested a Harvard professor and told the officer that he did not mean to malign the Cambridge Police Department.

I call bullshit. What else does "they acted stupidly" mean?
It means he took his friend's side of the story. In reality a President should not speak out on a police matter with out a Justice Department Inquiry to back him up.
 
Espy said:
If that is true then yeah, he made a mistake and had to pay for it. You act like a * to cops and surprise! You go to jail.
It's not Gates at first refused to ID himself but later on he retrieved his Harvard ID for the officer. At that point the officer started calling in that it was a false alarm but had to go out of the house because of Gates' yelling. Gates pursued and continued to yell which is when he was told to calm down and subsequently arrested.
 
Dubyamn said:
Espy said:
If that is true then yeah, he made a mistake and had to pay for it. You act like a * to cops and surprise! You go to jail.
It's not Gates at first refused to ID himself but later on he retrieved his Harvard ID for the officer. At that point the officer started calling in that it was a false alarm but had to go out of the house because of Gates' yelling. Gates pursued and continued to yell which is when he was told to calm down and subsequently arrested.
So it's purely a disorderly conduct thing then. Fair enough. Hardly sounds like an abuse of police power if the report is correct.
 
G

GeneralOrder24

GasBandit said:
Chazwozel said:
Singularity.EXE said:
I have to ask, unless I'm missing it, where does the officer learn that Gates is the actual owner of the home? From the police report, and other news stories I have read, they claim that Gates refused to show ID as he was too busy accusing the officer of racism.

Gates showed him his School badge and driver's license.
From what I read, he refused at first to show any ID, but when the handcuffs came out so did the school ID... but by then it's too late to un-disorderly yourself.

It was both. The cop asked for ID, the man refused and cried racism for a bit, and then went inside to get his wallet. The copy arrested him AFTER seeing his ID, as the man was repeatedly loud and disorderly outside.
 
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