Dear Cambridge Police...STFU

[Chibibar]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/27/gates. ... index.html

Hmmm.. This is interesting...

So the police report could be wrong?

The woman who made the 911 call that led to the arrest of Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. never referred to race when she contacted authorities for what she thought was a potential break-in, her attorney told CNN on Monday.

Attorney Wendy Murphy also categorically rejected part of the police report that said her client, Lucia Whalen, talked with Sgt. James Crowley, the arresting officer, at the scene.

\"Let me be clear: She never had a conversation with Sgt. Crowley at the scene,\" Murphy said. \"And she never said to any police officer or to anybody 'two black men.' She never used the word 'black.' Period.\"

She added, \"I'm not sure what the police explanation will be. Frankly, I don't care. Her only goal is to make it clear she never described them as black. She never saw their race. ... All she reported was behavior, not skin color.\"

Calls to the Cambridge Police Department about the issue have not been returned. In the police report, filed by Crowley, he says he spoke with Whalen outside the home before he approached Gates' house.

\"She went on to tell me that she observed what appeared to be two black males with backpacks on the porch of Ware Street,\" the report says. \"She told me that her suspicions were aroused when she observed one of the men wedging his shoulder into the door as if he was trying to force entry.\"

Murphy's comments add yet another layer of intrigue to the July 16 arrest that has prompted heated discussion across the nation on race relations in America.

Murphy also disputed accounts of her client as a white woman in the traditional sense. \"The fact is she's olive-skinned and of Portuguese descent. You wouldn't look at her and say necessarily, 'Oh, there's a white woman.' You might think she was Hispanic,\" Murphy said

 

[Charlie Don't Surf]

I say uppity all the time, mostly to my employees. Don't get all uppity. UPPITY UPPITY.

I don't think it is the universally reviled racist epithet that you seem to perceive it to be.

As for those who continue to defend the professor, despite a complete lack of any kind of witness statements or other evidence to support him, well it just proves another theory of mine. I call it the ''Liberals can't be wrong effect.'' I first postulated this theory when Clinton was in office and was being harangued for porking a bunch of nasty skanks and then lying about it. To the nation.

Basically, conservatives pile on the evidence, logic and facts, while libs insert their heads firmly in their asses and say ''NUH UH! NUH UH! NUH UH!''

This particular phenomenon has taken on epic proportions since Buttcrack Obama hit the scene. Like a parent's favored child, he can do no wrong. Similarly, those supporting the UPPITY professor will never admit that he might be wrong, even if and when the recordings of him screaming and insulting the officer's mother (in a most UPPITY fashion) are released to the public.

He was in the wrong. WAY in the wrong, by any reckoning. But that won't stop you from charging to his UPPITY defense will it?

UPPITY UPPITY UPPITY UPPITY

G-g-g-Glenn Beck?

 

[Dubyamn]

Wouldn't the second thing that the 911 operator asks for be a description of the individuals?

Definitely starting to look like the cops need to release the tapes from the initial phone call to the arrest.

 

[Krisken]

Wouldn't the second thing that the 911 operator asks for be a description of the individuals?

Definitely starting to look like the cops need to release the tapes from the initial phone call to the arrest.

That still won't have the conversation between the woman and the police officer on the scene, though.

 

[Dubyamn]

That still won't have the conversation between the woman and the police officer on the scene, though.

Shouldn't it? I thought that cops carried mics that linked with the dashboard cam. Which is why you can actually understand anything that anybody is saying during the release of those tapes.

 

[Krisken]

That still won't have the conversation between the woman and the police officer on the scene, though.

Shouldn't it? I thought that cops carried mics that linked with the dashboard cam. Which is why you can actually understand anything that anybody is saying during the release of those tapes.

I was unaware that police men were miked. If this is the case, I would definitely be interested it being released.

 

[SpecialKO]

[quote="The Messiah":r0zrfmvp]I say uppity all the time, mostly to my employees. Don't get all uppity. UPPITY UPPITY.

I don't think it is the universally reviled racist epithet that you seem to perceive it to be.

As for those who continue to defend the professor, despite a complete lack of any kind of witness statements or other evidence to support him, well it just proves another theory of mine. I call it the ''Liberals can't be wrong effect.'' I first postulated this theory when Clinton was in office and was being harangued for porking a bunch of nasty skanks and then lying about it. To the nation.

Basically, conservatives pile on the evidence, logic and facts, while libs insert their heads firmly in their asses and say ''NUH UH! NUH UH! NUH UH!''

This particular phenomenon has taken on epic proportions since Buttcrack Obama hit the scene. Like a parent's favored child, he can do no wrong. Similarly, those supporting the UPPITY professor will never admit that he might be wrong, even if and when the recordings of him screaming and insulting the officer's mother (in a most UPPITY fashion) are released to the public.

He was in the wrong. WAY in the wrong, by any reckoning. But that won't stop you from charging to his UPPITY defense will it?

UPPITY UPPITY UPPITY UPPITY

G-g-g-Glenn Beck?[/quote:r0zrfmvp]

Heh.

I'd still like to know why a man yelling at a police officer to leave him alone on his own property, after identifying himself, after (apparently) not threatening him at all, is considered "uppity" and worthy of arrest.

Worthy of a fine for disturbing the peace, sure. If he was walking down a public street screaming and refused to stop, okay. If he had completely refused to identify himself and wasn't doing anything notably different from your average robbery, like bringing in his suitcases and putting his coat in closet, okay.

But the idea that you can be arrested for yelling in your own home is ludicrous. If he had physically threatened the officer (or anyone else), then okay, case closed. I have yet to see anything saying that at all, let alone from a credible source.

I said it before; if you're so badly emotionally injured by someone making remarks about your mother that you have to arrest the person who said it to feel better, you have no business being a traffic monitor, let alone a police officer.

 

[Zappit]

I had thought that dashcams were pretty popular and commonplace now - I hadn't heard much about cops being miked up.

Honestly, I'm more surprised that there isn't a cell-phone video of this out there somewhere. Everything's on YouTube now.

As for where Gates was arrested, I read today in my local paper that Gates followed Crowley outside, still berating him and yelling at him, and because he was outside the home, and that's the reason the officer arrested him for disorderly.

If you really look at it, the whole thing just seems like a clash of egos - Gates lost his temper and berated a cop, and Crowley just decided not to take crap and took advantage of a technicality - could we agree that possibly, possibly, both men were just a bit at fault here?

 

[Chibibar]

I had thought that dashcams were pretty popular and commonplace now - I hadn't heard much about cops being miked up.

Honestly, I'm more surprised that there isn't a cell-phone video of this out there somewhere. Everything's on YouTube now.

As for where Gates was arrested, I read today in my local paper that Gates followed Crowley outside, still berating him and yelling at him, and because he was outside the home, and that's the reason the officer arrested him for disorderly.

If you really look at it, the whole thing just seems like a clash of egos - Gates lost his temper and berated a cop, and Crowley just decided not to take crap and took advantage of a technicality - could we agree that possibly, possibly, both men were just a bit at fault here?

oh yea... you can bet BOTH men are at fault.

 

[MindDetective]

That's how it usually is...

 

[Cajungal]

Sorry, had to.

 

[Chippy]

Buttcrack Obama

AHAHAHAHAHA!!! HOLY SHIT! AHAHAHAHAH!!! FUCKIN' A!!!



AHHHAAAA!

You sir, are a comedic genius! Such wit!

 

[Dieb]

I am once again amazed that people cannot, apparently, actually read the police report. Gates didn't just follow the police officer outside after the officer said he would leave. Not even the police report says that. The police officer ASKED Gates to step outside. Again, in the official police report: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/ye ... ates2.html

Of course, the police report is almost certainly lying in at least one matter. In that report, the officer says he spoke to the woman who called 911, Lucia Whalen when he arrived at Gates' house, and that she then told the officer that she had seen two black men entering the house. However, as Chibibar linked to, Lucia Whalen denies that she ever spoke to the police officer in question. Moreover, she says she says she didn't get a clear look at Gates when he was entering the house and was unaware that he was black. This later assertion is backed by the release of the 911 call she made, in which she said one man might be hispanic and that she was completely unsure about the race of the other. So yea, I think it's pretty damn likely that the police officer has lied in this matter, at least.

Again though, we KNOW Gates didn't just follow the police officer outside, the police officer ASKED him to step outside, because that is what the police report asserts, and presumably that report is not biased against the police officer.

 

[The Messiah]

The report doesn't say he asked him to come outside. He said he would be outside if Gates had any questions. Since the guy was screaming he had to go outside to talk on his radio. Nowhere does it say he asked him to come outside.

 

[SpecialKO]

Radley Balko has a good article about a federal appeals decision about insulting cops.

 

[The Messiah]

38 Responses to “The First Amendment and Insulting Cops” ...

It doesn’t matter what the law says. It doesn’t matter that the constitution says. Did you ever see the constitution jump out of its glass case in the museum and throw itself between and angry police officer and his victim? Cops can do whatever they want because there is no one to enforce the law when they break it. Who’s going to enforce the laws against a cop?

Geez, JS. You obviously don’t know much about the US Constitution. Of course it doesn’t jump out of glass case in a museum to come and protect our rights.

If you had paid attention during your high school civics class, you’d know that when the Constitution is being violated, the president stands in front of a mirror and reads the Preamble to the Constitution three times. This causes the image of Lincoln on the penny nearest to the constitutional violator to come to life and grow 10 feet tall (while retaining its copper luster, of course). The giant re-animated Lincoln then wrestles the violator to the ground and forces him to say “uncle”.

The Post Office is in on it, too. That’s why stamps are never priced at amounts divisible by 5, so there will still be pennies.

 

[SpecialKO]

Doesn't remotely invalidate the federal appeals court decision, sorry.

 

[@Li3n]

Murphy also disputed accounts of her client as a white woman in the traditional sense. "The fact is she's olive-skinned and of Portuguese descent. You wouldn't look at her and say necessarily, 'Oh, there's a white woman.' You might think she was Hispanic," Murphy said

You americans are crazy... next thing i'll hear is how someone had a tan so wasn't white at that moment.

 

[Tress]

The report doesn't say he asked him to come outside. He said he would be outside if Gates had any questions. Since the guy was screaming he had to go outside to talk on his radio. Nowhere does it say he asked him to come outside.

You're both wrong. He never ordered Gates to go outside, and he never phrased it as a command. However, when one says "I'll speak to you outside," it's an implied request to continue the conversation outside. So he did ask him outside, and he didn't at the same time.

I agree with what others said: I think both men could have handled this better. As for the President's response, it was heated and he probably should have chosen his words better. I still am not going to hold it against him. He gave a passionate defense of a friend. I don't think any of it is relevant to the President's performance as commander-in-chief.

P.S. I respect and admire the police, but Krisken's right: "Disorderly conduct" is sometimes used as a catch-all phrase for "person pissed me off, and I wanted to get back at him by arresting him." The fact that the charges were dropped quickly doesn't do anything to dispute that interpretation.

 

[The Messiah]

The report doesn't say he asked him to come outside. He said he would be outside if Gates had any questions. Since the guy was screaming he had to go outside to talk on his radio. Nowhere does it say he asked him to come outside.

You're both wrong. He never ordered Gates to go outside, and he never phrased it as a command. However, when one says "I'll speak to you outside," it's an implied request to continue the conversation outside. So he did ask him outside, and he didn't at the same time.

The report says ''If you want to discuss it further I will be outside.'' Gates continues screaming and he says ''We can discuss this outside.'' He said it only because the dude was screaming and acting the fool. Dare I say, getting UPPITY?

Anyway, the report says one thing, but we all know cops are full of shit. So take it with a grain of salt. I got pulled over once by cops looking for someone who stole a truck just like mine. The description of the thieves was ''3 black guys with guns.'' I am actually one white guy, with no gun. That didn't stop the police from pushing me down in the middle of the street and standing on me. Yes, I said STANDING on me, making it impossible to breathe or speak. After I filed a complaint with the Tampa PD, I got a chance to read the report. You can guess how similar the report was to actual real life events.

So, make of it what you will in that regard.

I still haven't seen or heard dash cam/mike footage, the definitive and largely final word on these types of things.

 

[SpecialKO]

The report says ''If you want to discuss it further I will be outside.'' Gates continues screaming and he says ''We can discuss this outside.'' He said it only because the dude was screaming and acting the fool. Dare I say, getting UPPITY

Yeah, in his own house, as he was being hassled by a police officer.

Looks like Massachusetts judicial precedent requires public (as in not by a police officer) complaint for disorderly conduct to apply on private property.

http://www.mass.gov/?pageID=dmdatermina ... csid=Dmdaa

-- Tue Jul 28, 2009 10:15 am --

I'm fairly sure that Chibibar's interpretation of events is pretty spot-on.

 

[Krisken]

The report says ''If you want to discuss it further I will be outside.'' Gates continues screaming and he says ''We can discuss this outside.'' He said it only because the dude was screaming and acting the fool. Dare I say, getting UPPITY

Yeah, in his own house, as he was being hassled by a police officer.

Looks like Massachusetts judicial precedent requires public (as in not by a police officer) complaint for disorderly conduct to apply on private property.

http://www.mass.gov/?pageID=dmdatermina ... csid=Dmdaa

-- Tue Jul 28, 2009 10:15 am --

I'm fairly sure that Chibibar's interpretation of events is pretty spot-on.

I would bet that's why the charges got dropped.

 

[Chazwozel]

I am once again amazed that people cannot, apparently, actually read the police report.

Your nativity is oozing through my monitor.

 

[Krisken]

I am once again amazed that people cannot, apparently, actually read the police report.

Your nativity is oozing through my monitor.

His nativity?

# birth, esp. with reference to place, time, or accompanying conditions
# Astrol. the horoscope for the time of a given person's birth

 

[Espy]

I am once again amazed that people cannot, apparently, actually read the police report.

Your nativity is oozing through my monitor.

His nativity?

Holy crap. This changes everything.

 

[The Messiah]

I am once again amazed that people cannot, apparently, actually read the police report.

Your UPPITY is oozing through my monitor.

 

[Charlie Don't Surf]

look everyone, the messiah learned a new word

 

[Chazwozel]

I am once again amazed that people cannot, apparently, actually read the police report.

Your UPPITY is oozing through my monitor.

So you like Obama or don't like him? I've ignored the majority of your posts to really know? What's the deal?

 

[Cuyval Dar]

Heh.

I'd still like to know why a man yelling at a police officer to leave him alone on his own property, after identifying himself, after (apparently) not threatening him at all, is considered "uppity" and worthy of arrest.

He and his driver were trying to break down the front door of the university's house. So it was not even his property that he was essentially destroying.
Additionally, they had already been able to enter through the back door, so it really was not necessary to break the front door

Worthy of a fine for disturbing the peace, sure. If he was walking down a public street screaming and refused to stop, okay. If he had completely refused to identify himself and wasn't doing anything notably different from your average robbery, like bringing in his suitcases and putting his coat in closet, okay.

He was outside screaming obscenities and accusing the officer and the police in general of racism, drawing a fairly large crowd.
And it did look like a break in to the woman who called 911.

But the idea that you can be arrested for yelling in your own home is ludicrous. If he had physically threatened the officer (or anyone else), then okay, case closed. I have yet to see anything saying that at all, let alone from a credible source.

He was not inside a home, his or another person's. Rules are different based on what property you are on.
He called the officer racist, which is harmful to his ability to maintain control of a situation, especially with a crowd forming that may be prone to violence if they see a black man playing the race card hauled off by a white police officer.

I said it before; if you're so badly emotionally injured by someone making remarks about your mother that you have to arrest the person who said it to feel better, you have no business being a traffic monitor, let alone a police officer.

How dense do you have to be to think that the officer was offended by an old, foolish man (falsely) seeing racial profiling in everything.


For the TLRers. In summary, STFU and RTFUBA (Unbiased Articles).

 

[The Messiah]

I am once again amazed that people cannot, apparently, actually read the police report.

Your UPPITY is oozing through my monitor.

So you like Obama or don't like him? I've ignored the majority of your posts to really know? What's the deal?

He is too uppity for me. Or not uppity enough. Either way, I am clearly racist for using the U word (pssst--UPPITY).

 

[Chippy]

What's the deal?

 

[Cuyval Dar]

What's the deal?

Ok, folks, the thread is over. Please leave through the exit to your left.

 

[Chazwozel]

[quote="The Messiah":qm4ki3zx]

Your UPPITY is oozing through my monitor.

So you like Obama or don't like him? I've ignored the majority of your posts to really know? What's the deal?

He is too uppity for me. Or not uppity enough. Either way, I am clearly racist for using the U word (pssst--UPPITY).[/quote:qm4ki3zx]


It's like watching a 3rd grader learn the word 'fuck' for the first time, isn't it?

Fuck. Fuck. Fuck.
Mother mother fuck. Mother mother fuck fuck. Mother fuck mother fuck.
Noise noise noise.
1 2 1 2 3 4
Noise noise noise.
Smokin weed, smokin weed.
Doin' coke, drinkin beers.
Drinkin beers, beers beers.
Rollin' fatties, smokin blunts.
Who smokes the blunts? We smoke the blunts.
Rollin' blunts and smokin um'
<>
15 bucks, little man, put that shit in my hand.
If that money doesn't show then you owe me owe me owe.
My jungle love.
Oh e oh e oh.
I think I wanna know ya know ya ... yeah, what.

 

[SpecialKO]

Heh.

I'd still like to know why a man yelling at a police officer to leave him alone on his own property, after identifying himself, after (apparently) not threatening him at all, is considered \"uppity\" and worthy of arrest.

He and his driver were trying to break down the front door of the university's house. So it was not even his property that he was essentially destroying.

Um, it makes no difference whether he owned or rented. As far as the police are concerned, it is not a public space.

He was outside screaming obscenities and accusing the officer and the police in general of racism, drawing a fairly large crowd.

The police report itself points out that he was standing on his porch, and the officer had to step back onto that porch to arrest him. So no, he was not "outside".

And it did look like a break in to the woman who called 911.

Which is not what the officer arrested him for.

He called the officer racist, which is harmful to his ability to maintain control of a situation, especially with a crowd forming that may be prone to violence if they see a black man playing the race card hauled off by a white police officer.

Massachusetts judicial precedent says that's not enough to arrest a man for disorderly conduct.

http://www.mass.gov/?pageID=dmdatermina ... csid=Dmdaa

Claiming that gates was trying to incite the crowd of his neighbors to riot is pretty severely at odds with the police report, let alone the account of his lawyer.

In summary, STFU and RTFUBA (Unbiased Articles).

The police report and that link I posted make it pretty clear you have not taken your own advice.

 

[Cuyval Dar]

2. outside - the outer side or surface of something
inside, interior - the inner or enclosed surface of something

1. A covered platform, usually having a separate roof, at an entrance to a building.
2. An open or enclosed gallery or room attached to the outside of a building; a verandah.
3. Obsolete A portico or covered walk.

Mind explaining how a porch is "inside" of a house?

CHAPTER 272. CRIMES AGAINST CHASTITY, MORALITY, DECENCY AND GOOD ORDER

Chapter 272: Section 53. Penalty for certain offenses

Section 53. Common night walkers, common street walkers, both male and female, common railers and brawlers, persons who with offensive and disorderly acts or language accost or annoy persons of the opposite sex, lewd, wanton and lascivious persons in speech or behavior, idle and disorderly persons, disturbers of the peace, keepers of noisy and disorderly houses, and persons guilty of indecent exposure may be punished by imprisonment in a jail or house of correction for not more than six months, or by a fine of not more than two hundred dollars, or by both such fine and imprisonment.

http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/272-53.htm

In order to secure a disorderly conduct conviction, the prosecution would have to show three things:

1. That Gates engaged in fighting, threatening, violent or tumultuous behavior or created a hazardous condition by an act that served no legitimate purpose;
2. That Gates’ actions were reasonably likely to affect the public; and
3. That the defendant either intended to cause public inconvenience, annoyance, alarm or recklessly created a risk of public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm.

1. Check. He was drawing a crowd. And you know how crowds can get when they see a white policeman hauling of a black man.
2. Check. He was loudly, publicly accusing a police officer of racism and racial profiling.
3. Throwing a huge fit, cursing out a cop and pulling the race card? Check. Drawing a large crowd? Check. Engaging in behavior that appeared to be a robbery, and diverted emergency resources? Check.
http://blogs.masslawyersweekly.com/news ... es-arrest/

I think that this guy from Off The Wall put it best.

Nobody's questioning his right to be angry. I'd be angry too. But I wouldn't stand on my front porch, yelling loud enough to draw a crowd, and insulting the guy who responded to a 911 call with the intent of protecting my property.

So yeah, it's his fault. Cop shows up and asks for ID, you show him your ID, give him the stink eye, and tell him to leave once he established that you're not robbing your own home. If you start hollering and create a scene, you get arrested for disorderly conduct. Seems simple enough to me.

The ruling that you posted involved no one but the cops and a guy making a lot of noise, with no public audience. Gates made enough noise to draw a crowd.
Thanks, but I RTFA. Please try again.