figmentPez
Staff member
Funny (political, religious) pictures
- Thread starter strawman
- Start date
Meh... not enough dismemberment.
figmentPez
Staff member
figmentPez
Staff member
figmentPez
Staff member
I assumed it was referring to the hats and the political beliefs.
But, yes, "white trash" is a thing, and it's debatable how much it's based on behavior, and how much on location/economics/etc. Maybe there are people who call every poor white person "white trash", or every white person in the midwest "white trash", but most people I know who use the term use it to talk about people who behave a certain way. I don't see it as very prejudiced to call people who put "truck nutz" on their giant pickup truck "white trash", because holy shit is that unnecessarily vulgar behavior. Same with MAGA hats.
White people who want to stop being "white trash", generally just have to stop behaving like trash. That's not the same for other types of prejudice. A white person moves to a new city; they can still be Christian, hetero, into country music, wear jeans and a cowboy hat, drive a pickup truck, etc. and no one need ever know they were "white trash" in their former life. A black person moves to a new city; doesn't matter if they change religion, listen to new music, change their wardrobe, drive the same sedan as everyone else, they'll still be black.
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Oh fuck you. Seriously fuck you. It's nowhere near the fucking same.
You really don't think it *feels to them* like it's similar (or, probably, in their own minds, much worse)? The antipathy felt towards those snooty intellectual city folks and the feeling of being looked down upon, being considered trash, being ignored, etc etc while (uppity) minority folks (who don't deserve it) get all the breaks and the attention etc etc is a big part of the reason this big of a middle finger ended up in the White House.
White trash are that specific group that it's still OK to make fun of, laugh at, put down, talk about in crass and offensive stereotypes. Some of the jokes made at their expense would be grounds for all kinds of lawsuits if they were madde about poor black people - or so they perceive it.
Such a poster with "Keep Jackson Trash Free" with a similarly-sterotypical silhouette of a black man would be considered horribly racist. Why is it OK to put these people - no matter how offensive their viewpoints - down? They feel like they're being neglected and looked down upon, and you just reinforce that notion - you do consider them less valuable/worthy of protection.
No, I'm not saying discrimination towards white trash is any where near as bad as trans, black, hispanic, etc etc have it. Definitely not. Especially sytemical racism and so on. Saying their voice doesn't matter and they don't matter is pretty crass and self-defeating, though, and it makes you look like that type of feminist who thinks men can't be victims.
My only response to @Bubble181 is that they can have the right to be offended back when they stopped trying to kill people they disagree with. Because it's pointless to sympathize with them until they stop; they'll just keep trying to kill us until they get their way.
Seriously. I'm tired of being told to be kind to people who have proven, time after time, that they'd rather I be dead or are at least willing to support people who want me dead for some fucking reason. Because it's not like the police or government are interested in protecting us.
Seriously. I'm tired of being told to be kind to people who have proven, time after time, that they'd rather I be dead or are at least willing to support people who want me dead for some fucking reason. Because it's not like the police or government are interested in protecting us.
figmentPez
Staff member
See my previous post in this thread. I'm not responsible for someone's delusion. I'm going to speak the truth, even if there's no other way to say it than to make someone feel stupid. And that's what happens when you try to teach someone who refuses to learn. People who want to learn should never be looked down on, or told that they're stupid, but there's absolutely zero way to tell the truth about the world without insulting someone who refuses to accept reality.
I know people who come from areas that have a lot of "white trash" around. People who are ashamed of coming from the "wrong side of the tracks". I've never heard any of them fault people for calling anyone "white trash", even though they worry about people judging them for living in the wrong city. "White trash" is a joke about someone's behavior. "Oh, you're from Porter, that explains it" is a snobbish insult about someone's circumstances. Sane people know the difference.
I really don't think you understand how the term "white trash" is used in America.
As someone who lives deep in Trump Country that's densely inhabited by "White trash," I feel I have standing to say the tendency to apply both of these labels to the same group of people is not without merit.
That said, I find the second poster more worrisome, since I see it painting religious folks with too broad of a brush, and potentially even insinuating that anyone who isn't Atheist is somehow inferior.
Thirdly, marginalization and oppression do not come in colors/flavors/valences. Blacks oppressing Whites does not cancel out Whites oppressing Blacks. You then just have twice the oppression.
--Patrick
That said, I find the second poster more worrisome, since I see it painting religious folks with too broad of a brush, and potentially even insinuating that anyone who isn't Atheist is somehow inferior.
Thirdly, marginalization and oppression do not come in colors/flavors/valences. Blacks oppressing Whites does not cancel out Whites oppressing Blacks. You then just have twice the oppression.
--Patrick
I think one of the problems is that some people have embraced the "white trash" moniker. They use it and all it's stereotypical quirks as a sort of communal identity. What causes the issue is that once they latch onto that identity it's no longer something embarrassing, but instead emboldening, and so they live out the worst traits of the identity to stick to those they think look down on them (AKA Libtards).
I really think the white trash moniker would have died out a long time ago if not for this adoption.
I really think the white trash moniker would have died out a long time ago if not for this adoption.
I didn't read the second one as religious people, I read it as religious in name only, because I really don't see how someone could be Christian and support Trump's hateful agenda.
figmentPez
Staff member
That's bullshit, and you should know better. There are tons of left-leaning Christians (Barack Obama, anyone?). Criticism of MAGA and the false-religiosity of those who would use the Bible as a cudgel has nothing to do with saying that atheism is better. Even conservative churches have called out the Right for their abuse of scripture when it comes to the treatment of immigrants, among other issues.
"White trash" is a classist/economic thing, not a race thing*. Don't go dragging the myth of "reverse racism" into this.
*That said, there's a ton of rich white trash. Frat boys at Ivy League schools are as likely to be "white trash" as anyone living in a trailer park.
While I agree with your conclusions, the Bible she is holding is too generic for it to carry that sort of "...in name only" vibe. I mean, I feel like that's what the poster was intended to convey, but the graphic designer could've made it a lot more obvious (adding "Fallwell Edition" or the like, or handcuffing her wrist to the book, etc.).
I think that focusing on my use of the word "White" may have distracted you from my point, which was merely the cumulative nature of oppression, regardless of who is oppressing whom.
I suppose the White trash demographic would be a natural target audience for Conservatives, since it'd be hard to find a group more actively resistant to outside influence and new ideas.
--Patrick
figmentPez
Staff member
No, I wasn't distracted from it. I just thought it was completely irrelevant, since no one is being oppressed by the term "white trash".
That's true, but the demographic was not created by the term "white trash". Any more than racists were created by calling them racists, or nazis were created by calling them nazis. People who want to act trashy are going to act trashy, regardless of what they're called.
"We wouldn't be calling for the death of black people and Jewish people if you hadn't called us racist first! You started the hatred and intolerance, and it's your responsibility to set a civil tone if you want us to stop being violent!"..... NO. That's bullshit. Same goes for "white trash". If grown-ass adults willingly behave worse just because they've been called out for acting poorly, that's just evidence that they want to be horrible people.
figmentPez
Staff member
Wait, I take that back, in part. "White trash" may have unfairly prejudiced people against addicts and perpetuated the opiod/drug crisis in America. That bit of negative impact I will concede. Though, that's still minor compared to impact that stereotypes of ethnic minorities has had in perpetuating our mistreatment of mental illness and addiction. There's a huge problem with how we view drug use and drug addiction in this country, and that has a small connection to "white trash".
I'm a Christian, and definitely DON'T support Trump or his hatred-filled followers.
Again, my earlier comments about marginalization, oppression, and valence were about marginalization, oppression, and valence, and had nothing to do with White trash.
--Patrick
figmentPez
Staff member
So, you were just saying something that had no relation to the subject at hand?
Have you met Pat?
Oh, fer...
If you read through Bubble's previous comment (where he responds to Null's comment), you will see him saying essentially the same thing, and then kinda getting slammed for suggesting that people pigeonholed as White trash should be afforded the same rights and privileges as everyone else. And this is weird, because he's objectively correct in that assumption.
Now I'm sure some might feel that's some kind of #NotAllNazis cop-out, but it most definitely isn't. Not all White trash are Nazis, just like not all Nazis are White trash, and the percentage of people who are both isn't significant enough* to be able to automatically draw either conclusion with sufficient statistical confidence. One thing that is certain, though, is that if we start treating all White trash as Nazis, they're going to get upset about that, and their votes/Facebook pages/Letters to the Editor/actions are going to reflect that.
--Patrick
*I admit this is an assumption on my part, though I double dog dare you to find enough evidence to prove me wrong. I mean, where can you find the stats on the number of Nazis or White trash in the nation, really?
If you read through Bubble's previous comment (where he responds to Null's comment), you will see him saying essentially the same thing, and then kinda getting slammed for suggesting that people pigeonholed as White trash should be afforded the same rights and privileges as everyone else. And this is weird, because he's objectively correct in that assumption.
Now I'm sure some might feel that's some kind of #NotAllNazis cop-out, but it most definitely isn't. Not all White trash are Nazis, just like not all Nazis are White trash, and the percentage of people who are both isn't significant enough* to be able to automatically draw either conclusion with sufficient statistical confidence. One thing that is certain, though, is that if we start treating all White trash as Nazis, they're going to get upset about that, and their votes/Facebook pages/Letters to the Editor/actions are going to reflect that.
--Patrick
*I admit this is an assumption on my part, though I double dog dare you to find enough evidence to prove me wrong. I mean, where can you find the stats on the number of Nazis or White trash in the nation, really?
figmentPez
Staff member
The flaw in your reasoning is that no one has said that white trash should be denied rights or privileges. The posters are a political statement, rejecting the beliefs tied to that red hat. The treatment of people who are "white trash" cannot be compared to the discrimination faced by racial, ethic, or religious minorities; for all the reasons previously given in this thread.
You're right, not all "white trash" are also Nazis. But everyone who wears the MAGA hat is allying themselves with Nazis. The hat is the focus of the statement. The hat (and head) is the only part of the imagery that is in the NOT symbol. Everyone who wears a MAGA hat is declaring themselves to be on the side of racism, hatred, bigotry, xenophobia, etc.
You're right, not all "white trash" are also Nazis. But everyone who wears the MAGA hat is allying themselves with Nazis. The hat is the focus of the statement. The hat (and head) is the only part of the imagery that is in the NOT symbol. Everyone who wears a MAGA hat is declaring themselves to be on the side of racism, hatred, bigotry, xenophobia, etc.
Every time I see someone wearing a same color baseball cap, it puts a jolt through my system. It keeps being different baseball teams instead of MAGA, but no one should be given reason for reacting that way to a damn hat.
There's a Chinese proverb that, literally translated, means "fifty steps laughing at a hundred steps".
The origins of the proverb comes from a tale where two soldiers in an army were about to go into battle, but instead they both turned and fled. After a while, one of them had run one hundred steps away from the battle, while the other one had only run fifty steps away. The one who'd run fifty steps stopped and started laughing at the one who'd run one hundred steps, "Look how far you ran! You're such a coward!"
And the one who'd run a hundred steps turned to the other soldier and replied, "You're just as much as a coward as me, you're just a slower runner, that's all."
The point of this proverb is to remind people that sometimes the extent you do something doesn't matter all that much. What matters is that the action was done in the first place.
I don't think it's ok to call people trash. I know the extent of what MAGAers suffer pales in comparison to what they've inflicted on other groups, particularly minorities. I still don't think it's ok to call people trash.
EDIT: Having said all that, I realize I have the luxury of looking at this situation from the outside in, and that emotions are running very high in the US right now, given how divided everyone is, how the midterm elections are going on, and how there's been a bunch of terrorist attacks. I don't mean to criticize anyone here, and I definitely empathize with your anger and outrage. I just don't think it's ok to call people trash, that's all.
The origins of the proverb comes from a tale where two soldiers in an army were about to go into battle, but instead they both turned and fled. After a while, one of them had run one hundred steps away from the battle, while the other one had only run fifty steps away. The one who'd run fifty steps stopped and started laughing at the one who'd run one hundred steps, "Look how far you ran! You're such a coward!"
And the one who'd run a hundred steps turned to the other soldier and replied, "You're just as much as a coward as me, you're just a slower runner, that's all."
The point of this proverb is to remind people that sometimes the extent you do something doesn't matter all that much. What matters is that the action was done in the first place.
I don't think it's ok to call people trash. I know the extent of what MAGAers suffer pales in comparison to what they've inflicted on other groups, particularly minorities. I still don't think it's ok to call people trash.
EDIT: Having said all that, I realize I have the luxury of looking at this situation from the outside in, and that emotions are running very high in the US right now, given how divided everyone is, how the midterm elections are going on, and how there's been a bunch of terrorist attacks. I don't mean to criticize anyone here, and I definitely empathize with your anger and outrage. I just don't think it's ok to call people trash, that's all.
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And *I* see an attempt to consolidate specific brands/identities (the Bible, the flag, the CfA cup) with that red hat and with its message ("Does someone you know have these markers? If so, they may (secretly?) be a MAGA!"). I also see them as a sort of "Who's with me?" call, which sounds like a very "Hinaus mit allen Störenfrieden!" attitude, if you ask me.
I don't disagree with the intent ("Wear a red MAGA cap and you will be called out as an ememy"), because that's pretty straightforward. I do disagree with the attempt to "widen the search" as it were, and also with the implied "wanted poster" feel, where the viewer is essentially being recruited for a posse.
--Patrick
That's awfully close to "The people calling people Nazis are the real Nazis".
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