Gas Bandit's Political Thread V: The Vampire Likes Bats

As the author/presenter says, it's because it's not the same statistic. They're not "inverses" or something of each other. Survival rate can be really REALLY odd. Take something like a gunshot wound. You either survive it, or you don't, right? Survival rates there are HIGHLY correlated to the mortality rate, and quickly... for the most part. But there are cases of lead poisoning in cases where the slug is left in (that happens, and is accepted medical practice) where they die DECADES later. Of a gunshot wound, but it just took a LOT longer. But Survival rates are "5 years out" (or 10 sometimes) for Cancer. But detection affects that number, as well as treatment. Hence why mortality rates are more of an "Aggregate over the years" regardless of how long it takes a particular disease/condition to kill you. Compared year-on-year, you can tell if it's just detection is getting better, or if you're actually reducing the overall number of deaths due to a specific cause. Yes the numbers are smaller because it's based on the WHOLE population, but it's more accurate year-on-year that you're having an effect through policy. The Thumb Cancer example is great, in that the survival rate skyrocketed, but the mortality rate stayed exactly the same. That was the point of the example.


So because of the HUGE amount of money spent on detection in the USA, your 5-year survival rates for many cancers is better, and even very markedly so versus many "socialized medicine" countries. But your MORTALITY rates (% of population that will die from it each year) are barely better at all, and only in some cases. According to my original link, MORE of your population per year dies of all cancers than in Canada at the least, which was your original comparison.
If you're comparing the mortality rates though, you also need to compare the rate of incidence, since cancer isn't entirely random and doesn't affect everyone the same. If two countries have similar morality rates but one develops 50% more cases each year, that one is clearly treating them better than the other.

So on that note, the World Cancer Research Fund International has the US at 7th in cancer rate per 100,000, while Canada is 12th, for a difference in frequency of about 23 people per 100,000. So Canada's slightly lower mortality rate is less impressive because of it's more significantly lower frequency rate.
 
If you're comparing the mortality rates though, you also need to compare the rate of incidence, since cancer isn't entirely random and doesn't affect everyone the same. If two countries have similar morality rates but one develops 50% more cases each year, that one is clearly treating them better than the other.

So on that note, the World Cancer Research Fund International has the US at 7th in cancer rate per 100,000, while Canada is 12th, for a difference in frequency of about 23 people per 100,000. So Canada's slightly lower mortality rate is less impressive because of it's more significantly lower frequency rate.
True, but less than 10% difference from the numbers you gave there. So very comparable rates of both incidence and death from such, for FAR less money spent overall on the system.
 
And we see him in this mood before he gets diagnosed. The cancer was just the straw that broke the camel's back and gave him the push.
I thought he'd already been diagnosed before beating up that bully and torching Kenwins' car. Man, I really miss watching new episodes every week.
 

Dave

Staff member
It was much more than cooking the books. The way she did her accounting was the way it's been done for a long time. The difference this time is that she wasn't corrupt and was bringing corruption investigations against a lot of powerful people. So they impeached her. They outright stated that this was to stop the investigations and they succeeded. Again, corrupt people in power using that same power to keep their power.
 
Yeah, I'm not saying she's great ,but presenting it like that is disingenuous. Also, including the "first female" is....Well, unnecessary. it's either a slight to Hillary - because hurr hurr women - or a way to actively try and link negative things - corruption - with a group.

ou wouldn't mention it if they were male, why do it if they're female?

(not you yoy. The media you)
 

GasBandit

Staff member
Yeah, I'm not saying she's great ,but presenting it like that is disingenuous. Also, including the "first female" is....Well, unnecessary. it's either a slight to Hillary - because hurr hurr women - or a way to actively try and link negative things - corruption - with a group.

ou wouldn't mention it if they were male, why do it if they're female?

(not you yoy. The media you)
Granted, I basically just copy and pasted the headline off my RSS feed.
 
As the author/presenter says, it's because it's not the same statistic. They're not "inverses" or something of each other. Survival rate can be really REALLY odd. Take something like a gunshot wound. You either survive it, or you don't, right? Survival rates there are HIGHLY correlated to the mortality rate, and quickly... for the most part. But there are cases of lead poisoning in cases where the slug is left in (that happens, and is accepted medical practice) where they die DECADES later. Of a gunshot wound, but it just took a LOT longer. But Survival rates are "5 years out" (or 10 sometimes) for Cancer. But detection affects that number, as well as treatment. Hence why mortality rates are more of an "Aggregate over the years" regardless of how long it takes a particular disease/condition to kill you. Compared year-on-year, you can tell if it's just detection is getting better, or if you're actually reducing the overall number of deaths due to a specific cause. Yes the numbers are smaller because it's based on the WHOLE population, but it's more accurate year-on-year that you're having an effect through policy. The Thumb Cancer example is great, in that the survival rate skyrocketed, but the mortality rate stayed exactly the same. That was the point of the example.


So because of the HUGE amount of money spent on detection in the USA, your 5-year survival rates for many cancers is better, and even very markedly so versus many "socialized medicine" countries. But your MORTALITY rates (% of population that will die from it each year) are barely better at all, and only in some cases. According to my original link, MORE of your population per year dies of all cancers than in Canada at the least, which was your original comparison.
So what you're basically saying is that roughly the same number of people die, it's that in the USA they just find out sooner what it is they're dying from?

--Patrick
 

GasBandit

Staff member
So what you're basically saying is that roughly the same number of people die, it's that in the USA they just find out sooner what it is they're dying from?

--Patrick
However that statistic is based on total population, not how many people actually get cancer verses how many die.
 
How many are actually *diagnosed* with the specific type of cancer and die.

Undiagnosed deaths are still a thing, you know. "Natural causes" doesn't really exist.
 
I wonder if the standard of care for the elderly is the same as well. I know in many cases once you reach a certain level of dementia, alzheimer's, or similar mental illness some care systems no longer diagnose cancer if a mass is found. While I expect doctor's respect the wishes of family and DNR documents at times like this, the support system and recommendations may differ between the two countries, making this an even harder comparison.
 
I wonder if the standard of care for the elderly is the same as well. I know in many cases once you reach a certain level of dementia, alzheimer's, or similar mental illness some care systems no longer diagnose cancer if a mass is found. While I expect doctor's respect the wishes of family and DNR documents at times like this, the support system and recommendations may differ between the two countries, making this an even harder comparison.
Kinda in my wife's job area, they diagnose, but care may just be Hospice to keep the patient comfortable and as pain free as possible since the treatments can be so invasive and severe that they wouldn't survive working toward the cure.
 
A

Anonymous

Anonymous

I can't get into details, but the barely-present understanding that federal officials have of mental illness is atrocious. Two cases this week involved mentally ill individuals placed in a system full of people that think they can explain a person into being mentally healthy.

I want people to have healthcare benefits across the board, but when I see shit like this, I have to ask how I can possibly trust these assholes to properly manage it? At what point will a situation be considered "bad enough" that treatment is merited when they can't comprehend that you can't discuss a person out of schizophrenia? There has to be some balance, but these people give me zero confidence that could be achieved.
 
I can't get into details, but the barely-present understanding that federal officials have of mental illness is atrocious. Two cases this week involved mentally ill individuals placed in a system full of people that think they can explain a person into being mentally healthy.

I want people to have healthcare benefits across the board, but when I see shit like this, I have to ask how I can possibly trust these assholes to properly manage it? At what point will a situation be considered "bad enough" that treatment is merited when they can't comprehend that you can't discuss a person out of schizophrenia? There has to be some balance, but these people give me zero confidence that could be achieved.
I'm with you entirely. My best friend was struggling with what we believe was undiagnosed schizophrenia. He had attempted to apply for government benefits several times to seek help, and was denied every time. He grew more and more paranoid, pushing everyone away, and eventually had a psychotic break where he stabbed a stranger that he thought was out to kill him. This eventually lead to a standoff with police where he was shot and killed.
 
I had a great photo of that LPWI.org sign for Gas, but as the road it's on is a state arterial highway, I couldn't stop and press SAVE on my phone at the same time.

Sorry, @GasBandit.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
Yet more irritating government fuzzy-wuzzy-feelgood meddling bullshit.

Kari's Law.

It requires all businesses to have phone systems where dialing 911 goes directly to the emergency line (IE, without requiring you to dial 9 for an outside line first, then 911).

So, all businesses with older phone systems that don't have that capability either had to do a hurried upgrade, or apply for a waiver.

We applied for a waiver.

Apparently that waiver requires us to now put HUGE PRINTED INSTRUCTIONS on every handset instructing you to dial 9-9-1-1.

0908161538~2~2~2.jpg


You know, the sort of thing an 8-year old in a panic very probably would ignore, and really, makes the handset much less comfortable to hold and use.

The murderer who killed Kari Dunn, incidentally, while praising the law, says it wouldn't have saved her.

Just more unnecessary government intrusion so that someone can feel better that they've "done something" that doesn't actually help.
 
What Kari's Law has done for us, mainly, is to have us accidentally dial 911 multiple times.
Because you already have to dial 9 (outside line) + 1 (every US call has to be preceded with "1") + the rest of the phone number.
Most amusing one of these was because someone gave their phone number as "(123) 456-7890" and the person trying to call them just went with it.

--Patrick
 
The Minnesota DFL party (the Democratic party's MN branch) has filed a lawsuit requesting that Trump/Pence be removed from the ballot for President because the state GOP party didn't follow proper state procedure when applying.

Granted, even if it happens, it almost certainly wouldn't change anything, since MN hasn't voted for a Republican since Nixon. But I'm sure @GasBandit would appreciate the idea of the Libertarian party candidate being on more states' ballots than the GOP's, as they are currently on 49 states' ballots and to my understanding are submitting signatures for access in Rhode Island today.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
The Minnesota DFL party (the Democratic party's MN branch) has filed a lawsuit requesting that Trump/Pence be removed from the ballot for President because the state GOP party didn't follow proper state procedure when applying.

Granted, even if it happens, it almost certainly wouldn't change anything, since MN hasn't voted for a Republican since Nixon. But I'm sure @GasBandit would appreciate the idea of the Libertarian party candidate being on more states' ballots than the GOP's, as they are currently on 49 states' ballots and to my understanding are submitting signatures for access in Rhode Island today.
diabolical.jpg
 
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