Going Vegetarian

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fade

fade

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figmentPez said:
And those studies were disproven by other studies, which were disproven by... and on and on. Meat is part of a healthy diet. Vegetarian diets can be healthy, but they take more work and are not a viable option for all people.
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I'm not so sure about that cyclical disproving thing. There's a fairly weak argument for example about protein that is more or less an urban legend. I will agree that it takes more work, but that's more cultural. The world of procurement and preparation is geared toward a meat diet.

As for the smugness thing, I have literally with my own two eyes on more than one occasion seen a friend say, "I'm a vegetarian" when asked, only to see them torn into. Yes, it's anecdotal, but it's been a fairly regular occurrence.
 
strawman

strawman

Well, for one thing, if I invite a vegetarian friend over for dinner, I am expected to provide a vegetarian meal for them.

If they invite me over, however, they certainly don't take into account that I eat meat and provide a meat dish for me.

:popcorn:
 
figmentPez

figmentPez

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drifter said:
Is that a quality or quantity thing? It seems like you could get more than enough fats from nuts/seeds/fatty fruits.
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Quality. Getting enough fats from vegetal sources is not a problem. Getting the right fats, especially essential fatty acids, actually digesting them, processing them, and then using them in the body's system is another problem all together.
Added at: 23:47
fade said:
The only thing I'm talking about is the biggest argument I hear against vegetarianism.
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Well, in my experience the biggest argument for or against just about anything often turns out to be a strawman. It's the smaller arguments, taken as a whole, that really tell the story.
Added at: 23:49
stienman said:
If they invite me over, however, they certainly don't take into account that I eat meat and provide a meat dish for me.
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Do you think they could accommodate me? I could bring them a signed note from my doctor telling them I can't eat a vegetarian diet if they'd like.
 
M

makare

The people who eat meat eat both because humans are omnivores. We eat lot's of dishes that have no meat in them and as long as we don't label them as vegetarian we wouldn't even think about it.
 
fade

fade

Staff member
stienman said:
Well, for one thing, if I invite a vegetarian friend over for dinner, I am expected to provide a vegetarian meal for them.

If they invite me over, however, they certainly don't take into account that I eat meat and provide a meat dish for me.

:popcorn:
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I know you're doing it on purpose, but the easy argument against that is that you've not eliminated vegetables entirely. And besides, we concede many things to guests based on their quirks, not just diet.
 
M

makare

the only time I really get annoyed with the people on either side of the argument is when the people who eat meat say something stupid like "yeah well what about plants. don't they feel" or whatever stupid nonsense related to that they come up with. It just makes them look like dipshits.
 
C

Chibibar

I think we may need to get a biologist and possible a chemist into this conversation.

this is what I think (again, I'm just an IT guy who was a vegetarian for 15 years but quit 6 years ago)
Your body requires certain nutrients. How you get those nutrients or the quantity require for everyday "survival" is questionable. There are people in the world who live off in different diet. The only one that I'm personally familiar with is China. I have family who lives there who rarely eat meat (cause it is expensive and hard to get) and they eat veggies and fruit (a lot of it) and are pretty healthy. My grandmother is over 90 years old and still pretty mobile and healthy.

Now eating meat is NOT a bad thing (nutrient wise) they do contain a lot of nutrients that your body needs. Of course the argument is that we can get similar nutrient from other sources other than meat. This is where the debate lies. What type of nutrients does your body REALLY need in order to survive, what does it need to thrives? what does it need to be active? (active = working out, body building, heavy outdoor/indoor activities.
 
ThatGrinningIdiot!

ThatGrinningIdiot!

Fun Size said:
I would challenge any of you to re-read the last three pages and count how often the vegetarians are acting as pompous douche bags vs. the meat eaters doing so.
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Not a single vegetarian. I do get the feeling that people referencing vegetarians as smug are using real life examples.
 
Fun Size

Fun Size

My point was simply that I am reading that meat eaters attack vegetarians for being "smug assholes", a claim that is itself an attack, unprovoked by an actual vegetarian saying anything at all. This is pretty much commonplace around here, and why I avoid these conversations in general.
 
DarkAudit

DarkAudit

Fun Size said:
My point was simply that I am reading that meat eaters attack vegetarians for being "smug assholes", a claim that is itself an attack, unprovoked by an actual vegetarian saying anything at all. This is pretty much commonplace around here, and why I avoid these conversations in general.
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Blame PeTA. They're the ones out there pushing the vegetarian agenda the loudest.

Fuck PeTA.
 
M

makare

There has to be an animal abuse/beat your meat joke in there somewhere.
 
C

Chibibar

Fun Size said:
My point was simply that I am reading that meat eaters attack vegetarians for being "smug assholes", a claim that is itself an attack, unprovoked by an actual vegetarian saying anything at all. This is pretty much commonplace around here, and why I avoid these conversations in general.
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It depends on the vegetarian. If you encounter one that doing it for health, then you don't see the "smugness" but some vegan are doing it for political, those are the one who are "smug" (PeTA is a good example)

When I was a vegetarian, I was doing it for health. I never force my eating habits to my friends. I always adapt as best as I could when going out with my friends. I didn't make sure the food were "cook in separate cookware" or "peanut oil only" I just eat the food without the meat and just have fun.
 
GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
makare said:
The people who eat meat eat both because humans are omnivores. We eat lot's of dishes that have no meat in them and as long as we don't label them as vegetarian we wouldn't even think about it.
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I've never been really comfortable with the label "omnivore." Omni means "all," and I don't feel qualified to claim the omni prefix until in addition to being carnivorous and herbivorous, I'm also lithovorous, sanguivorous and saprovorous at the very least.
 
M

makare

GasBandit said:
I've never been really comfortable with the label "omnivore." Omni means "all," and I don't feel qualified to claim the omni prefix until in addition to being carnivorous and herbivorous, I'm also lithovorous, sanguivorous and saprovorous at the very least.
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"Omni" may mean all but "omnivore" just means they eat both plants and animals.

That dur statement aside somewhere in the world there are humans that eat pretty much anything. After all this time I can make an educated assertion that you are a human. I wouldn't bet my life on it though.
 
Mathias

Mathias

Chibibar said:
I think we may need to get a biologist and possible a chemist into this conversation.

this is what I think (again, I'm just an IT guy who was a vegetarian for 15 years but quit 6 years ago)
Your body requires certain nutrients. How you get those nutrients or the quantity require for everyday "survival" is questionable. There are people in the world who live off in different diet. The only one that I'm personally familiar with is China. I have family who lives there who rarely eat meat (cause it is expensive and hard to get) and they eat veggies and fruit (a lot of it) and are pretty healthy. My grandmother is over 90 years old and still pretty mobile and healthy.

Now eating meat is NOT a bad thing (nutrient wise) they do contain a lot of nutrients that your body needs. Of course the argument is that we can get similar nutrient from other sources other than meat. This is where the debate lies. What type of nutrients does your body REALLY need in order to survive, what does it need to thrives? what does it need to be active? (active = working out, body building, heavy outdoor/indoor activities.
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Or a biochemist.... like me....

just sayin....

If you want to be whores about it. Our 'natural' diet is pretty much what Chimps and Gorillas eat in the wild. That's what our bodies evolved to process: lots of tree bark, berries, and occasional squirrel that we accidentally stepped on.

But we said fuck you to chimps and gorillas the day our ancestors decided to make spears and roast a nice wooly mammoth carcass over a roaring fire.

So there you have it. Vegetarians are pretty much stupider than cavemen.
 
GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
makare said:
"Omni" may mean all but "omnivore" just means they eat both plants and animals.

That dur statement aside somewhere in the world there are humans that eat pretty much anything. After all this time I can make an educated assertion that you are a human. I wouldn't bet my life on it though.
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It only means that because of a widely (ok, universally) accepted misapplication of the prefix. I think a better term would be multivore (eater of many) instead of omnivore (eater of all).

As for the "somebody somewhere will eat pretty much anything" bit, just because Crazy Eddie eats a Volkswagen one piece at a time doesn't make him a Lithovore... you have to be able to survive on it.
 
M

makare

As much as I love a good semantics argument and by the gods I DO, this one is just too dumb.
 
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