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Grades so bad, you have to kill your hamster.
#2
Shegokigo
Shegokigo
She swung it so hard, there was a G-Force?
*boos herself*
*boos herself*
#3
Dave
Dave
I know I'm going to get crap for this...
IT'S A HAMSTER!!! I know that it's a mean and dumb thing to do (not to mention cruel to the poor kid), but she shouldn't get jail time for this. Hamsters are disposable, flush them when they die kinda pets.
But she should take a lot of crap for psychological child abuse...
IT'S A HAMSTER!!! I know that it's a mean and dumb thing to do (not to mention cruel to the poor kid), but she shouldn't get jail time for this. Hamsters are disposable, flush them when they die kinda pets.
But she should take a lot of crap for psychological child abuse...
#4
GasBandit
GasBandit
Yeah, I think there'd be a lot less of a fuss if she'd just gotten rid of the hamster herself, out of sight of the kid. But making your own kid messily kill something he has an emotional attachment to is just begging to create our next serial torturer/murderer.I know I'm going to get crap for this...
IT'S A HAMSTER!!! I know that it's a mean and dumb thing to do (not to mention cruel to the poor kid), but she shouldn't get jail time for this. Hamsters are disposable, flush them when they die kinda pets.
But she should take a lot of crap for psychological child abuse...
#5
Shakey
Shakey
I'm guessing she's in jail due to the child cruelty charges rather than the animal cruelty, but it doesn't really say.
#6
makare
makare
My friend and I are ready to represent the hamster against the freaky crazy lady.
#7
Chazwozel
With a fucking hammer of all things. Jeez.
---------- Post added at 12:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:03 PM ----------
No I hope she's in for both. I think animal cruelty ranks up there with pretty horrible crimes. I know it's just a damn hamster, but killing it with a hammer is pretty fucking sadistic.
Chazwozel
Yeah, I think there'd be a lot less of a fuss if she'd just gotten rid of the hamster herself, out of sight of the kid. But making your own kid messily kill something he has an emotional attachment to is just begging to create our next serial torturer/murderer.[/QUOTE]I know I'm going to get crap for this...
IT'S A HAMSTER!!! I know that it's a mean and dumb thing to do (not to mention cruel to the poor kid), but she shouldn't get jail time for this. Hamsters are disposable, flush them when they die kinda pets.
But she should take a lot of crap for psychological child abuse...
With a fucking hammer of all things. Jeez.
---------- Post added at 12:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:03 PM ----------
I'm guessing she's in jail due to the child cruelty charges rather than the animal cruelty, but it doesn't really say.
No I hope she's in for both. I think animal cruelty ranks up there with pretty horrible crimes. I know it's just a damn hamster, but killing it with a hammer is pretty fucking sadistic.
#8
Dave
Dave
From the article:
Dismiss the animal cruelty and battery charges. Ramp up the child cruelty charge.38-year-old Lynn Middlebrooks Geter faces one charge each of animal cruelty, child cruelty and battery.
#9
Hylian
Hylian
Ugh
#10
makare
makare
Really... the gruesome killing of a pet isn't something we should try and dissuade through legal consequence? I have to disagree.
#11
GasBandit
GasBandit
Besides, everybody knows the proper way to kill a hamster is with a microwave.
#12
Philosopher B.
Philosopher B.
Oh sweet mother of pearl inlay ... can you imagine the squeaking. I think I'm gonna hurl.
Philo-B, who used to own a hamster.
Philo-B, who used to own a hamster.
#13
Cajungal
Cajungal
What a sick, sick lady. That poor kid... must have been really hard on him. I'm sure he'll be fine in the long run, but man, she's got problems.
#14
sixpackshaker
sixpackshaker
too bad the brat did not miss can crack mom across the knuckles with that hammer.
#15
Deschain
Deschain
Dismiss jail time for animal cruelty charges, probation and perhaps a fine. Also, I bought a hamster when my grades were bad to cheer myself up.
#16
Shakey
Shakey
I'd bet this lady has probably used some other "creative" punishments before. Hopefully they really check this kids home life out before they let her near him again.
#17
makare
makare
We read this case where this chick went out with a guy her parents didn't approve of so to punish her they took her and her little dog out to the desert. Her dad gave her gun and told her to shoot the dog. She shot herself.
This hamster thing kind of reminds me of that. Some people should not have children or pets.
This hamster thing kind of reminds me of that. Some people should not have children or pets.
#18
GasBandit
This reminds me of the old "you Americans do everything wrong" joke.
GasBandit
See, she should have shot her father.We read this case where this chick went out with a guy her parents didn't approve of so to punish her they took her and her little dog out to the desert. Her dad gave her gun and told her to shoot the dog. She shot herself.
This hamster thing kind of reminds me of that. Some people should not have children or pets.
This reminds me of the old "you Americans do everything wrong" joke.
#19
Twitch
Twitch
What happened to that hamster?Dismiss jail time for animal cruelty charges, probation and perhaps a fine. Also, I bought a hamster when my grades were bad to cheer myself up.
#20
General Specific
General Specific
#21
Soliloquy
Soliloquy
Ah, you mean this:We read this case where this chick went out with a guy her parents didn't approve of so to punish her they took her and her little dog out to the desert. Her dad gave her gun and told her to shoot the dog. She shot herself.
The Bizarre part of that case is it was a college student. I guess things were different in the 70's?New York Times (1976 said:Coed kills herself to spare pet dog doomed by father
PHOENIX, Ariz., Feb. 6 (AP) –Linda Marie Ault killed herself, policeman said today, rather than make her dog 'Beauty’ pay for her night with a married man.
"I killed her. I killed her. Its just like I killed her myself," a detective quoted her grief-stricken father as saying. "I handed her the gun. I didn't think she would do any-thing like that."
The 21-year old Arizona State University coed died in a hospital yesterday of a gunshot wound in the head.
The police quoted her parents, Mr. and Mrs. Joseph Ault, as giving this account: Linda failed to return home from a dance in Tempe Friday night. On Saturday she admitted she had spent the night with an Air Force lieutenant.
The Aults decided on a punishment that would "wake Linda up." They ordered her to shoot the dog she had owned about two years.
On Sunday, the Aults and Linda took the dog into the desert near their home. They had the girl dig a shallow grave. Then Mrs. Ault grasped the dog between her hands, and Mr. Ault gave his daughter a .22 caliber pistol and told her to shoot the dog. Instead, the girl put the pistol to her right temple and shot herself.
The police said there were no charges that could be file against the parents except possibly cruelty to animals.
New York Times
#22
@Li3n
@Li3n
Ah the good old days when "waking" people up meant making them do horrible things...
#23
sixpackshaker
sixpackshaker
21 is a little late to worry about your daughter's night-life.
#24
Dave
My son is 18 and if he went wild I really couldn't do anything.
Dave
This.21 is a little late to worry about your daughter's night-life.
My son is 18 and if he went wild I really couldn't do anything.
#26
Chibibar
My son is 18 and if he went wild I really couldn't do anything.[/QUOTE]
kick him out of the house?
Chibibar
This.21 is a little late to worry about your daughter's night-life.
My son is 18 and if he went wild I really couldn't do anything.[/QUOTE]
kick him out of the house?
#27
Hailey Knight
Somebody's dad never read The Wild Duck.
Hailey Knight
Ah, you mean this:We read this case where this chick went out with a guy her parents didn't approve of so to punish her they took her and her little dog out to the desert. Her dad gave her gun and told her to shoot the dog. She shot herself.
The Bizarre part of that case is it was a college student. I guess things were different in the 70's?[/QUOTE]New York Times (1976 said:Coed kills herself to spare pet dog doomed by father
PHOENIX, Ariz., Feb. 6 (AP) –Linda Marie Ault killed herself, policeman said today, rather than make her dog 'Beauty’ pay for her night with a married man.
"I killed her. I killed her. Its just like I killed her myself," a detective quoted her grief-stricken father as saying. "I handed her the gun. I didn't think she would do any-thing like that."
The 21-year old Arizona State University coed died in a hospital yesterday of a gunshot wound in the head.
The police quoted her parents, Mr. and Mrs. Joseph Ault, as giving this account: Linda failed to return home from a dance in Tempe Friday night. On Saturday she admitted she had spent the night with an Air Force lieutenant.
The Aults decided on a punishment that would "wake Linda up." They ordered her to shoot the dog she had owned about two years.
On Sunday, the Aults and Linda took the dog into the desert near their home. They had the girl dig a shallow grave. Then Mrs. Ault grasped the dog between her hands, and Mr. Ault gave his daughter a .22 caliber pistol and told her to shoot the dog. Instead, the girl put the pistol to her right temple and shot herself.
The police said there were no charges that could be file against the parents except possibly cruelty to animals.
New York Times
Somebody's dad never read The Wild Duck.
#28
Shegokigo
Shegokigo
I hope that dog lived a very damn long time.
#29
Hailey Knight
Hailey Knight
Hell of a way to say "Fuck you."
#30
Twitch
Twitch
I probably would have turned the gun on my dad and taken my dog. Wouldn't ever shoot the guy but hell, he'd give me the dog back right away.
#31
Deschain
Deschain
o
Also that girl is really dumb.
ITT: We promote patricide. Also, in b4 arrested.I probably would have turned the gun on my dad and taken my dog. Wouldn't ever shoot the guy but hell, he'd give me the dog back right away.
Also that girl is really dumb.
#32
makare
So what, my brief synopsis isn't good enough for you?
When dealing with cases I love getting a brief synopsis.
makare
Ah, you mean this:We read this case where this chick went out with a guy her parents didn't approve of so to punish her they took her and her little dog out to the desert. Her dad gave her gun and told her to shoot the dog. She shot herself.
The Bizarre part of that case is it was a college student. I guess things were different in the 70's?[/QUOTE]New York Times (1976 said:Coed kills herself to spare pet dog doomed by father
PHOENIX, Ariz., Feb. 6 (AP) –Linda Marie Ault killed herself, policeman said today, rather than make her dog 'Beauty’ pay for her night with a married man.
"I killed her. I killed her. Its just like I killed her myself," a detective quoted her grief-stricken father as saying. "I handed her the gun. I didn't think she would do any-thing like that."
The 21-year old Arizona State University coed died in a hospital yesterday of a gunshot wound in the head.
The police quoted her parents, Mr. and Mrs. Joseph Ault, as giving this account: Linda failed to return home from a dance in Tempe Friday night. On Saturday she admitted she had spent the night with an Air Force lieutenant.
The Aults decided on a punishment that would "wake Linda up." They ordered her to shoot the dog she had owned about two years.
On Sunday, the Aults and Linda took the dog into the desert near their home. They had the girl dig a shallow grave. Then Mrs. Ault grasped the dog between her hands, and Mr. Ault gave his daughter a .22 caliber pistol and told her to shoot the dog. Instead, the girl put the pistol to her right temple and shot herself.
The police said there were no charges that could be file against the parents except possibly cruelty to animals.
New York Times
So what, my brief synopsis isn't good enough for you?
When dealing with cases I love getting a brief synopsis.
#33
Iaculus
Also, people don't make the most sensible decisions under intense psychological stress.
Iaculus
Bolded the bit you missed.oITT: We promote patricide. Also, in b4 arrested.I probably would have turned the gun on my dad and taken my dog. Wouldn't ever shoot the guy but hell, he'd give me the dog back right away.
Also that girl is really dumb.
Also, people don't make the most sensible decisions under intense psychological stress.
#34
Hailey Knight
Hailey Knight
And from people who would tell her to shoot her dog, I wonder if he'd even take her seriously, or back down.
#35
Twitch
Twitch
He'd back down, people don't like guns pointed at them.
#36
Dave
Dave
Pfft. God told Abraham to KILL HIS KID just to prove to Satan that he'd do it. You think these people are assholes?
#37
Shegokigo
Shegokigo
Big 
at you Dave.
at you Dave.
#38
Dave
Dave
:laugh:
#39
Reboneer
Reboneer
How the hell does bludgeoning a hamster with a hammer not count as animal cruelty?Dismiss the animal cruelty and battery charges. Ramp up the child cruelty charge.
#40
Dave
Dave
Because it's a hamster. Right up there on the pet scale as goldfish and mice.
#41
crono1224
crono1224
It is still a animal though, and at minimum, what makes a dog better, i'de say emotional attachment to said animal would define the importance of it. Some people hate dogs, and yet if you bludgeoned a dog it would be animal crueltyBecause it's a hamster. Right up there on the pet scale as goldfish and mice.
#42
Dave
At what level does it change from animal cruelty to ridicule of PETA-like extremism?
What if it had been a fish? Or a pet mouse? Or a snake? What if you were really attached to a pet ant farm? I'd be interested to see if the level of cruelty is stated in the law or if this is open-ended.
Dave
It is still a animal though, and at minimum, what makes a dog better, i'de say emotional attachment to said animal would define the importance of it. Some people hate dogs, and yet if you bludgeoned a dog it would be animal cruelty[/QUOTE]Because it's a hamster. Right up there on the pet scale as goldfish and mice.
At what level does it change from animal cruelty to ridicule of PETA-like extremism?
What if it had been a fish? Or a pet mouse? Or a snake? What if you were really attached to a pet ant farm? I'd be interested to see if the level of cruelty is stated in the law or if this is open-ended.
#43
crono1224
At what level does it change from animal cruelty to ridicule of PETA-like extremism?
What if it had been a fish? Or a pet mouse? Or a snake? What if you were really attached to a pet ant farm? I'd be interested to see if the level of cruelty is stated in the law or if this is open-ended.[/QUOTE]
Ants aren't animals so???? I would say emotional attachment would factor into the discretion used to decide to prosecute for these charges.
crono1224
It is still a animal though, and at minimum, what makes a dog better, i'de say emotional attachment to said animal would define the importance of it. Some people hate dogs, and yet if you bludgeoned a dog it would be animal cruelty[/QUOTE]Because it's a hamster. Right up there on the pet scale as goldfish and mice.
At what level does it change from animal cruelty to ridicule of PETA-like extremism?
What if it had been a fish? Or a pet mouse? Or a snake? What if you were really attached to a pet ant farm? I'd be interested to see if the level of cruelty is stated in the law or if this is open-ended.[/QUOTE]
Ants aren't animals so???? I would say emotional attachment would factor into the discretion used to decide to prosecute for these charges.
#44
Espy
Espy
I think everyone has their limit Dave and yours is obviously in a different place than others here. Personally I'd find it rather disturbing to kill a goldfish or pet mouse if it was to punish a child, but no, I wouldn't think the charges should be for animal cruelty, rather child abuse.
#45
Chazwozel
At what level does it change from animal cruelty to ridicule of PETA-like extremism?
What if it had been a fish? Or a pet mouse? Or a snake? What if you were really attached to a pet ant farm? I'd be interested to see if the level of cruelty is stated in the law or if this is open-ended.[/QUOTE]
Ants aren't animals so???? I would say emotional attachment would factor into the discretion used to decide to prosecute for these charges.[/QUOTE]
What the fuck are they then? Plants? They don't feel, feelings though. So yeah...
Fish don't really feel fear. They function of impulse, stimuli, and instinct. Same with reptiles. When you start getting into the wacky wild world of mammals though, it becomes fear. I'm pretty sure that the law protects fish and reptiles too.
I wonder if I would have been charged for animal cruelty that one time I stuck dynamite up a bullfrogs ass...
Chazwozel
It is still a animal though, and at minimum, what makes a dog better, i'de say emotional attachment to said animal would define the importance of it. Some people hate dogs, and yet if you bludgeoned a dog it would be animal cruelty[/QUOTE]Because it's a hamster. Right up there on the pet scale as goldfish and mice.
At what level does it change from animal cruelty to ridicule of PETA-like extremism?
What if it had been a fish? Or a pet mouse? Or a snake? What if you were really attached to a pet ant farm? I'd be interested to see if the level of cruelty is stated in the law or if this is open-ended.[/QUOTE]
Ants aren't animals so???? I would say emotional attachment would factor into the discretion used to decide to prosecute for these charges.[/QUOTE]
What the fuck are they then? Plants? They don't feel, feelings though. So yeah...
Fish don't really feel fear. They function of impulse, stimuli, and instinct. Same with reptiles. When you start getting into the wacky wild world of mammals though, it becomes fear. I'm pretty sure that the law protects fish and reptiles too.
I wonder if I would have been charged for animal cruelty that one time I stuck dynamite up a bullfrogs ass...
#46
crono1224
At what level does it change from animal cruelty to ridicule of PETA-like extremism?
What if it had been a fish? Or a pet mouse? Or a snake? What if you were really attached to a pet ant farm? I'd be interested to see if the level of cruelty is stated in the law or if this is open-ended.[/QUOTE]
Ants aren't animals so???? I would say emotional attachment would factor into the discretion used to decide to prosecute for these charges.[/QUOTE]
What the fuck are they then? Plants?[/QUOTE]
Bah I am dumb, I am trying to respond to two diff forums and I done messed up.
crono1224
It is still a animal though, and at minimum, what makes a dog better, i'de say emotional attachment to said animal would define the importance of it. Some people hate dogs, and yet if you bludgeoned a dog it would be animal cruelty[/QUOTE]Because it's a hamster. Right up there on the pet scale as goldfish and mice.
At what level does it change from animal cruelty to ridicule of PETA-like extremism?
What if it had been a fish? Or a pet mouse? Or a snake? What if you were really attached to a pet ant farm? I'd be interested to see if the level of cruelty is stated in the law or if this is open-ended.[/QUOTE]
Ants aren't animals so???? I would say emotional attachment would factor into the discretion used to decide to prosecute for these charges.[/QUOTE]
What the fuck are they then? Plants?[/QUOTE]
Bah I am dumb, I am trying to respond to two diff forums and I done messed up.
#47
Chazwozel
I'd be a cool parent and make him swallow the goldfish live.
Chazwozel
I think everyone has their limit Dave and yours is obviously in a different place than others here. Personally I'd find it rather disturbing to kill a goldfish or pet mouse if it was to punish a child, but no, I wouldn't think the charges should be for animal cruelty, rather child abuse.
I'd be a cool parent and make him swallow the goldfish live.
#48
crono1224
crono1224
Some people would even consider running over a cat with a car and not stopping animal cruelty, now I think that's probably my limitI think everyone has their limit Dave and yours is obviously in a different place than others here. Personally I'd find it rather disturbing to kill a goldfish or pet mouse if it was to punish a child, but no, I wouldn't think the charges should be for animal cruelty, rather child abuse.
#49
Hailey Knight
Hailey Knight
Some people torture cats for fun. I'd consider that animal cruelty, but hey, that's me.
Thing is Dave, it's not "animal death", it's "animal cruelty." You take your dog to be put to sleep, it's not animal cruelty. You leave it out in the winter in a cage with no food while you're on vacation, it's animal cruelty.
Thing is Dave, it's not "animal death", it's "animal cruelty." You take your dog to be put to sleep, it's not animal cruelty. You leave it out in the winter in a cage with no food while you're on vacation, it's animal cruelty.
#50
Dave
Dave
Killing a hamster with a hammer is probably one of the more humane ways of killing it.
I'm not saying it wasn't sadistic, mean and downright evil, I just think that the animal abuse is dumb and should be dropped in lieu of really ramping up the angle of child abuse. This woman does not deserve to have kids.
I'm not saying it wasn't sadistic, mean and downright evil, I just think that the animal abuse is dumb and should be dropped in lieu of really ramping up the angle of child abuse. This woman does not deserve to have kids.
#51
Hailey Knight
Hailey Knight
I've never heard of that happening in prosecution, dropping smaller charges for a larger one, because there's no charge limit. They can have the big and the small. They usually throw everything at the defendant, unless there's a plea deal, and then bigger charges are dropped. I don't see what the prosecution has to gain by pressing fewer charges.
#52
makare
makare
So there is like a scale thing? If we add in animal cruelty they have to take away from the child abuse? what?
#53
Dave
Dave
No, no. You guys are reading too much into what I'm saying.
Drop the animal cruelty. Vigorously prosecute the bitch for child abuse.
It is not a give and take thing and I'm not suggesting it is. I just think the animal cruelty is dumb.
Drop the animal cruelty. Vigorously prosecute the bitch for child abuse.
It is not a give and take thing and I'm not suggesting it is. I just think the animal cruelty is dumb.
#54
Chazwozel
Chazwozel
I gotta agree with marake on this one. There's no balance on charges. I don't see why she can't be prosecuted to the max for child abuse and in addition for animal cruelty. Whether killing a hamster with a hammer is considered cruel or not, it's not behavior that should be allowed. I don't think the focus of the case is going to animal abuse though.No, no. You guys are reading too much into what I'm saying.
Drop the animal cruelty. Vigorously prosecute the bitch for child abuse.
It is not a give and take thing and I'm not suggesting it is. I just think the animal cruelty is dumb.
#55
Shadazz
Shadazz
.
#56
GasBandit
GasBandit
Except when said hammer is being wielded by a child. Not the most dexterous or strong, sometimes.Killing a hamster with a hammer is probably one of the more humane ways of killing it.
#57
Dave
Excellent point. Although when I was 12 I was pretty good at killing things like toads or mice. Chickens don't count because that was done for food and it was fun watching them run around.
Dave
Except when said hammer is being wielded by a child. Not the most dexterous or strong, sometimes.[/QUOTE]Killing a hamster with a hammer is probably one of the more humane ways of killing it.
Excellent point. Although when I was 12 I was pretty good at killing things like toads or mice. Chickens don't count because that was done for food and it was fun watching them run around.
#58
makare
Excellent point. Although when I was 12 I was pretty good at killing things like toads or mice. Chickens don't count because that was done for food and it was fun watching them run around.[/QUOTE]
Aw Dave you killed toads..... so mean.
makare
Except when said hammer is being wielded by a child. Not the most dexterous or strong, sometimes.[/QUOTE]Killing a hamster with a hammer is probably one of the more humane ways of killing it.
Excellent point. Although when I was 12 I was pretty good at killing things like toads or mice. Chickens don't count because that was done for food and it was fun watching them run around.[/QUOTE]
Aw Dave you killed toads..... so mean.
#59
Dave
Dave
Ever tried to shoot a toad with a bow & arrow? That & bb guns were our weapons of choice.
#60
makare
makare
I just don't like you at all.Ever tried to shoot a toad with a bow & arrow? That & bb guns were our weapons of choice.
#61
Dave
Dave
It was a different time then. People didn't care about animals like they were people as much as they do now. When they did the animals sure as hell weren't disposable like hamsters, toads, mice, etc.
#62
Rubicon
She's going to a special hell. Reserved for child molesters and people who talk at the theater.
Rubicon
I'm no PETA fan, I mean I eat meat, I have pets, etc but.. thats just brutally cruel to a hamster. It's a sentient being, it has a mind, a personality, to just kill it? No animal is "disposable" especially when it comes to pets. I will never condone any kind of violence like this towards an animal. (this doesn't count for stuff we eat, I can't live on veggies).I know I'm going to get crap for this...
IT'S A HAMSTER!!! I know that it's a mean and dumb thing to do (not to mention cruel to the poor kid), but she shouldn't get jail time for this. Hamsters are disposable, flush them when they die kinda pets.
But she should take a lot of crap for psychological child abuse...
She's going to a special hell. Reserved for child molesters and people who talk at the theater.
#63
Dave
Dave
Sentient?
#64
Chazwozel
I was going to say the same thing...
Hamsters aren't self-aware. They eat, sleep, poop, and make little hamsters.
I guess in terms of feeling pleasure and pain, yes, hamsters are sentient beings...
Chazwozel
Sentient?
I was going to say the same thing...
Hamsters aren't self-aware. They eat, sleep, poop, and make little hamsters.
I guess in terms of feeling pleasure and pain, yes, hamsters are sentient beings...
#65
Dave
Dave
No, see, THIS is where the line is drawn. Hamsters are NOT sentient, even if the little bastards feel pain and have pronounced nervous systems. Sentience is a measure of being self-aware. Just because some bleeding heart douchebags have taken the word over and tried to use it to further their own bullshit agenda does not make it so. Animals are NOT sentient, no matter what PETA tries to make you think. Your little kitty or puppy might have bonded with you but it's not because he loves you or hates you, it's because you fit some predetermined part of their nature like pack leader, chew toy or whatever.
Stop anthropomorphizing Fluffy. They are not kids, they are not people. If you died and couldn't set out the kibbles, they would EAT YOU!
Stop anthropomorphizing Fluffy. They are not kids, they are not people. If you died and couldn't set out the kibbles, they would EAT YOU!
#66
Shakey
Shakey
People do that too.If you died and couldn't set out the kibbles, they would EAT YOU!
#67
Dave
Very, very rarely. With animals it's nearly every time. Plus, people are thinking creatures who figure out how to get their own kibbles or call for help. Animals can't do that because they are NOT people and are NOT sentient.
Dave
People do that too.[/QUOTE]If you died and couldn't set out the kibbles, they would EAT YOU!
Very, very rarely. With animals it's nearly every time. Plus, people are thinking creatures who figure out how to get their own kibbles or call for help. Animals can't do that because they are NOT people and are NOT sentient.
#68
fade
fade
Sheesh Dave. Normally you and I agree, but I can't stand by this at all.Because it's a hamster. Right up there on the pet scale as goldfish and mice.
#69
GasBandit
GasBandit
To be self aware you have to be capable of abstract thought, not just emotionality or even intelligence. An animal can be self-unaware and still not be a "meat machine," so to speak. Dogs feel sorrow, regret, joy, loneliness, anger and amusement, but they aren't self aware.
Mav though might be using a different dictionary term of sentient, as there is a definition of sentient that only means "able to feel," thus if it has complex emotions it is sentient. But that's not the definition we're talking about here.
Oh, and there are even some humans who cannibalize without emergent need... IE, it's not "eat people or starve," it's "eat people to absorb their power." But this is all irrelevant... the determination of self awareness comes from the ability to separate the mind from the thought. Most animals don't question their own thoughts.
However, SOME animals have been shown to be self-aware, apparently (if this wikipedia entry is to be believed... it has references at any rate) - apparently dolphins, some apes, elephants, and even magpies have passed the sentience test.
Mav though might be using a different dictionary term of sentient, as there is a definition of sentient that only means "able to feel," thus if it has complex emotions it is sentient. But that's not the definition we're talking about here.
Oh, and there are even some humans who cannibalize without emergent need... IE, it's not "eat people or starve," it's "eat people to absorb their power." But this is all irrelevant... the determination of self awareness comes from the ability to separate the mind from the thought. Most animals don't question their own thoughts.
However, SOME animals have been shown to be self-aware, apparently (if this wikipedia entry is to be believed... it has references at any rate) - apparently dolphins, some apes, elephants, and even magpies have passed the sentience test.
#70
Shakey
Very, very rarely. With animals it's nearly every time. Plus, people are thinking creatures who figure out how to get their own kibbles or call for help. Animals can't do that because they are NOT people and are NOT sentient.[/QUOTE]
I know, just messin with you.
Problem with animal cruelty is it's based more on human emotion than animal suffering. Animals that we form more of a bond with will be considered for animal cruelty before animals we don't, so it's pretty subjective.
Shakey
People do that too.[/QUOTE]If you died and couldn't set out the kibbles, they would EAT YOU!
Very, very rarely. With animals it's nearly every time. Plus, people are thinking creatures who figure out how to get their own kibbles or call for help. Animals can't do that because they are NOT people and are NOT sentient.[/QUOTE]
I know, just messin with you.
Problem with animal cruelty is it's based more on human emotion than animal suffering. Animals that we form more of a bond with will be considered for animal cruelty before animals we don't, so it's pretty subjective.
#71
Dave
Dave
I used to have hamsters. I'd feed them to my snake. Was that cruelty? If they feel fear I'll bet they were scared. Does that mean that I should go to jail? Why? How was setting them up as food (yes, they have to be living and moving to get attacked usually) different than bashing them once or twice with a hammer? The difference is that one was child abuse and the other was not.
#72
GasBandit
Very, very rarely. With animals it's nearly every time. Plus, people are thinking creatures who figure out how to get their own kibbles or call for help. Animals can't do that because they are NOT people and are NOT sentient.[/QUOTE]
I know, just messin with you.
Problem with animal cruelty is it's based more on human emotion than animal suffering. Animals that we form more of a bond with will be considered for animal cruelty before animals we don't, so it's pretty subjective.[/QUOTE]
Quite subjective indeed. Cows can clearly feel pain and suffer. But we kill them with clubs to the head thousands upon thousands of times a day.
GasBandit
People do that too.[/QUOTE]If you died and couldn't set out the kibbles, they would EAT YOU!
Very, very rarely. With animals it's nearly every time. Plus, people are thinking creatures who figure out how to get their own kibbles or call for help. Animals can't do that because they are NOT people and are NOT sentient.[/QUOTE]
I know, just messin with you.
Problem with animal cruelty is it's based more on human emotion than animal suffering. Animals that we form more of a bond with will be considered for animal cruelty before animals we don't, so it's pretty subjective.[/QUOTE]
Quite subjective indeed. Cows can clearly feel pain and suffer. But we kill them with clubs to the head thousands upon thousands of times a day.
#73
LordRavage
(Case of the Mondays. Nothing to see here.)
LordRavage
Everytime the dog barked, the father only heard "Your fault! Your fault!".I hope that dog lived a very damn long time.
(Case of the Mondays. Nothing to see here.)
#74
Shegokigo
Shegokigo
No no Ravage, that was perfect. No need to apologize.
#75
@Li3n
@Li3n
What are you guys talking about?! Self aware = it can tell that's it's image in the mirror... and plenty of animals can do that. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_test
As i recall over here the hit to the head is to daze them, they die from getting their throats slit right after... (i have no idea how they do it at the industrial level though).But we kill them with clubs to the head thousands upon thousands of times a day.
#76
GasBandit
GasBandit
That might be it too. I didn't look to carefully. Really though, that would just make it more cruel, to hit them non-lethally.As i recall over here the hit to the head is to daze them, they die from getting their throats slit right after... (i have no idea how they do it at the industrial level though).But we kill them with clubs to the head thousands upon thousands of times a day.
#77
rabbitgod
rabbitgod
I've heard of places that use an air powered spike through the skull. The cows are herded through this line and an operator holds the 'gun' up to the cows head and drives the spike through. They drop onto a conveyor belt and brought out to the rest of processing.
They say it's humane, but it can't be perfect.
They say it's humane, but it can't be perfect.
#78
sixpackshaker
sixpackshaker
I was going to say this, but add that it is also the weapon used in No Country for Old Men.I've heard of places that use an air powered spike through the skull. The cows are herded through this line and an operator holds the 'gun' up to the cows head and drives the spike through. They drop onto a conveyor belt and brought out to the rest of processing.
They say it's humane, but it can't be perfect.
#79
Twitch
Twitch
If I learned anything from American Gods they kills cows with a sledgehammer.
#80
sixpackshaker
sixpackshaker
But Czernobog even mentions when they quit using the sledge and moved to pneumatic hammers.If I learned anything from American Gods they kills cows with a sledgehammer.
#81
LordRavage
This really ticks me off. No one kills with rocks anymore. ;P
LordRavage
But Czernobog even mentions when they quit using the sledge and moved to pneumatic hammers.[/QUOTE]If I learned anything from American Gods they kills cows with a sledgehammer.
This really ticks me off. No one kills with rocks anymore. ;P
#82
Allen, who is Quiet
Allen, who is Quiet
Well duh. They weren't able to kill anyone who had paper.