[MMO] Guild Wars 2: They get it. Oh dear god, they get it.

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ScytheRexx

ScytheRexx

My favorite thing about it is the lack of a fee. It means I can play it while still playing WoW without much financial guilt, same as the old Guild Wars.
 
Mathias

Mathias

My favorite part of WoW was always the unregulated pvp, and yes, what Warhammer promised but never delivered.
 
Dave

Dave

Staff member
Will GW2 be the game that takes me away from Skyrim? Maybe, just maybe.

From Reddit today - the complete information about the open Beta weekend. Man this game is looking better and better. I honestly think it might be what gets me back into MMOs.
 
@Li3n

@Li3n

Events that people can join without being in a party already might actually make me enjoy playing mmo's... i never got having all those quests around that you would have to do on your own because looking for a group to do them with just wasted way more time then doing them yourself...
 
GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
@Li3n said:
Events that people can join without being in a party already might actually make me enjoy playing mmo's... i never got having all those quests around that you would have to do on your own because looking for a group to do them with just wasted way more time then doing them yourself...
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That's actually been a common staple in many an MMO for a while now. Heck, in Warhammer Online you couldn't swing a dead cat without hitting 3 "Public quest events" already in progress.
 
ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

This is going to sound like a silly question, but is there a way to enjoy the game without PVP? I've never enjoyed MMO PVP. Or PVP in general.
 
GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
ThatNickGuy said:
This is going to sound like a silly question, but is there a way to enjoy the game without PVP? I've never enjoyed MMO PVP. Or PVP in general.
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Well, let me ask you this... do you not enjoy PVP because you first experienced it back in UO/Everquest/WoW/whatever where "PVP" meant you'd be somewhere minding your own business and 3 or 4 assholes would suddenly jump you from behind while you were half dead from fighting a Mob, take your shit and camp your corpse till you quit in rage?

Because that's not what this is. Most MMOs have PvP set up in a way that sucks (and forcing PvP based corpse retrieval should be a felony, imo), and makes it an almost traumatic experience sometimes. But not this particular paradigm.

The PvP/RvR/WvW that has been in place in DAOC/Warhammer/Guild Wars 2 is more like, you take your character into a special continent-sized area where people go when they want to fight players. There's nothing else to do there, just group up with other people on your team, and go find enemies out there who are also there explicitly to fight players - and you don't lose anything from doing it. That way, it feels less a futile excercise in eternal vigilance and inconvenience, and more like TF2 DND style. The key is to find friends and play together.

Let me tell you, in Warhammer Online, I never did any PVE. The only mobs I killed were guards/keep lords that you HAVE to kill to trigger RvR objectives to change hands. I took something like 10 toons from level 1 to max tier exclusively via RvR. Being able to do that ruined PvE for me in MMOs, pretty much. If I can't level by fighting other players, I'm pretty much not interested. I even got loot from players that was just as good, if not better, than I could have gotten questing/camping... and it didn't make the people I killed lose anything, because it was "generated" for me upon their death, not "taken" from them.

TLDR version: All PvP is not equal, maybe it's worth another look for you?
 
ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Ah, okay, so it's a bit more like, say, City of Heroes when it comes to PvP. There's specific areas for it. I'm okay with that.

Honestly, my biggest beef with PvP in general is that I don't have the time or patience to become good at the game like others do. I tend to avoid online multi-player on PSN most times because I don't want to play with 12-year olds with tourettes that have a lot more time to invest in mastering the game. I play at a much more casual level, enjoying the game's design and getting into the world itself. Hell, with CoH, I would spend an hour or two just farting around and playing in character for laughs (both my own laughter and others). PvP's never interested me because of those common things that make it unenjoyable.
 
GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
ThatNickGuy said:
Ah, okay, so it's a bit more like, say, City of Heroes when it comes to PvP. There's specific areas for it. I'm okay with that.

Honestly, my biggest beef with PvP in general is that I don't have the time or patience to become good at the game like others do. I tend to avoid online multi-player on PSN most times because I don't want to play with 12-year olds with tourettes that have a lot more time to invest in mastering the game. I play at a much more casual level, enjoying the game's design and getting into the world itself. Hell, with CoH, I would spend an hour or two just farting around and playing in character for laughs (both my own laughter and others). PvP's never interested me because of those common things that make it unenjoyable.
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CoH had the right idea in putting PvP in its own area, but it didn't go far enough. PvP was entirely an afterthought in CoH, with all the abilities and classes designed for PvE with no thought as to how they would perform against other player characters. A lot of the old school MMOs had that problem. Games like DAOC, Warhammer Online, and now Guild Wars 2 are being developed primarily with the PvP endgame in mind. As much as I rag on it for later design decisions, Warhammer got a lot of things right, not the least of which was the ability for me to immediately get into action in the RvR zones and accomplish things in 2 or 3 hours. I'm hoping GW2 functions similarly.
 
@Li3n

@Li3n

GasBandit said:
That's actually been a common staple in many an MMO for a while now. Heck, in Warhammer Online you couldn't swing a dead cat without hitting 3 "Public quest events" already in progress.
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Well my MMO knowledge is mostly out of date...
 
GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
ThatNickGuy said:
Now wait a minute, Pez. You can't go throwing tables around here like you own the place. That's reserved for similes.



SIMILES!?

GIFSoup
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Once again, a table has been thrown for something that is NOT A SIMILE.

It takes more than just the word "LIKE" to make a simile, it has to compare two distinct, separate subjects.

Quick test. If the sentence reads the exact same with the same meaning with the words "in a manner as if" substituted for "like," it's not a simile. If it works instead with "as would" instead of "like," then it is a simile.

To run like a cat is a simile. To yell like I hate you is not.
 
W

Weloenstal

Dave said:
Will GW2 be the game that takes me away from Skyrim? Maybe, just maybe.

From Reddit today - the complete information about the open Beta weekend. Man this game is looking better and better. I honestly think it might be what gets me back into MMOs.
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Resist the dark side....
 
Dave

Dave

Staff member
:rofl:

Why is that the dark side? I tried WoW and played it a LOT, but it got to be such a grind for $15 a month. Skyrim is cool but until they get new stuff from the Creation Kit it gets to be the same. Of course, I *HAVE* put almost 500 hours into Skyrim so I've gotten my money's worth and then some.
 
Adam

Adam

I still don't understand why people think 3 faction PVP is immediately better than 2 faction PVP. The problem with factions wasn't the number of them, it was the incentives to play on one versus the other.
 
W

Weloenstal

I play WoW as well, own a level 15 guild. I was just joking around lol.
 
Dave

Dave

Staff member
My guild was maxed level and I raided a lot. It just got....boring. But I'll give GW2 a shot and see how it goes.
 
Telephius

Telephius

Adammon said:
I still don't understand why people think 3 faction PVP is immediately better than 2 faction PVP. The problem with factions wasn't the number of them, it was the incentives to play on one versus the other.
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While alot of people herald 3 way war as the ultimate fix(which it is not) it does hel with population imbalance to some extent. DaoC is a prime example, Albion was the popular realm at release, with Hibernia a distant second and Midgard being third. Now in WoW or TOR if one faction is at 70% population against 30% if any people want to fight in open world onthe small faction you are usually going to be jumped and cant really do anything about it if you want to openworld PvP.

In DaoC if the population was 40%, 30%, 30% the two lower pops could ignore eachother and gang up on the big faction. Alternatively if the imbalance was 70%, 20%, 10% the two smaller faction could take their ball and go play amongst themselves and ignore the big guy. It was not perfect and did not 'cure' population imbalance but it did give options in playing open world PvP that you can't have in a two way.

EDIT: also giving people incentive to play brings out issues with population balance more so having measures to allow people to still be able to participate sans being bent over the table.
 
Dei

Dei

I hate the idea of server factions, though everyone has gone that way now. While it makes world PvP potentially more interesting, without making everything FFA, it really makes it annoying for other things (which are for the most part PvE related, but are also a huge balancing issue for BOTH PvP and PvE.)
 
Shegokigo

Shegokigo

Everquest had it right when it came to races/factions. You could be any race and join any faction if you worked hard enough at it. I understand why it wouldn't work in a world like WoW but newer games? No excuse.
 
Adam

Adam

Games with an existing IP seem to struggle a lot with how to balance faction populations - I'm looking at you SWTOR and your 4-1 Empire/Alliance imbalance. I'd agree with Shegs that the faction you join should be part of the whole RPG experience, not something you're inherently dumped into at the beginning of the game.
 
Wahad

Wahad

What I want to know is which races will belong to what faction? Given that there's only five races, is it Charr&Asura (beast-races)/ Norn&Silvari (vaguely humanoid in touch with nature)/ Human? Or another combination? The article didn't seem to include it. Or maybe I'm blind. I didn't read it in minute detail, granted.
 
@Li3n

@Li3n

Wahad said:
What I want to know is which races will belong to what faction? Given that there's only five races, is it Charr&Asura (beast-races)/ Norn&Silvari (vaguely humanoid in touch with nature)/ Human? Or another combination? The article didn't seem to include it. Or maybe I'm blind. I didn't read it in minute detail, granted.
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None, the PvP is server vs server vs server... and like in GW1 it takes place away from the PvE areas....
 
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