Hunting women from the back of a jeep (Penny Arcade)

[sixpackshaker]

I've heard women say too many times that they did not like a guy because he had no game. I then ask why she would be interested in a guy that sleeps around a lot, and manipulates people. Of course there is never an answer to the question.

A good friend of mine in college would bring home on the order of 40 girls a semester. Out of those only one or two ended up feeling manipulated. Women like the casual sex too, some also see sex as love even when it is given away with in 3 hours of meeting a guy.

 

[Espy]

Also, point of order - young dude bartenders or waiters get hella tips from little old ladies. My roommate raked it in from professors and families alike bartending.

No doubt.
I worked in restaurants doing both waiting and bartending and it's not all that odd for guys to make good cash from girls or women either. My point was that it's just easier for girls to get guys with a little flirting, at least in my experience.
Why? Well, it just seems to me that if a girl even smiles at a guy, far to often he tends to take it as a sign of romantic interest or flirting on some level.

 

[strawman]

I feel ya, Espy. I think that there's a lot of guys out there who related, but the fact remains that the OP is seriously smurfed up.

Granted, I'm seriously smurfed up, but did you mean "Original post" or "Original poster", and if the former, Tycho and Gabe's tête-à-tête or my comments, or... ?

This whole thread is ripe for miscommunication, since we're talking about a lot of different possibly incendiary topics - the specific programs mentioned, any programs meant to give men more confidence in approaching women, intentions of people following such programs, whether women have better social skills than men, gender stereotypes, etc...

-Adam

 

[Telephius]

Just so you guys know, Gabe said today that he was more playing devils advocate.

I will say this, it's, in general much easier for girls to get stuff out of guys, go work in a restaurant and watch the girls rake in the cash from dudes at their tables with just a little flirting.

There are some things that I don't feel can be used as a legitimate "Devil's Advocate" defense. Lame excuse from someone taking a lot of heat?

Could be but Penny-Arcade insults demographics on a regualr basis so I think Gabe and Tycho are both used to taking heat. I think they don't mind taking heat for things they mean rather then things they do not mean.

 

[Adam]

I've heard women say too many times that they did not like a guy because he had no game. I then ask why she would be interested in a guy that sleeps around a lot, and manipulates people. Of course there is never an answer to the question.

A good friend of mine in college would bring home on the order of 40 girls a semester. Out of those only one or two ended up feeling manipulated. Women like the casual sex too, some also see sex as love even when it is given away with in 3 hours of meeting a guy.

Having 'game' doesn't necessarily mean sleeping around a lot and manipulating people. It can be as simple as being able to tell a good joke or as complex as making someone feel like they're the only person in the universe. It's about shutting up and letting someone else talk for a change. It's about relaxing and just enjoying yourself instead of attaching your feelings of success to whether or not you get into her pants.

I have a coworker who, at 40, twice-divorced, is now dating a very attractive divorcee around his age. Coupled with the fact his previous two wives were smokin' hotties and he's just north of 5'5 means he obviously has game...And it shows with women AND men.

Bringing home 40 girls a semester (Which seems....difficult to believe) doesn't prove any sort of game other than alcohol being involved.

 

I feel ya, Espy. I think that there's a lot of guys out there who related, but the fact remains that the OP is seriously smurfed up.

Granted, I'm seriously smurfed up, but did you mean "Original post" or "Original poster", and if the former, Tycho and Gabe's tête-à-tête or my comments, or... ?

This whole thread is ripe for miscommunication, since we're talking about a lot of different possibly incendiary topics - the specific programs mentioned, any programs meant to give men more confidence in approaching women, intentions of people following such programs, whether women have better social skills than men, gender stereotypes, etc...

-Adam

The Gabe/Tycho argument. Not you. I seldom insult someone personally.

 

[Espy]

Not you. I seldom insult someone personally.

Oh, but when he does! What a sight to behold!

 

[phil]

I feel ya, Espy. I think that there's a lot of guys out there who related, but the fact remains that the OP is seriously smurfed up.

Granted, I'm seriously smurfed up, but did you mean "Original post" or "Original poster", and if the former, Tycho and Gabe's tête-à-tête or my comments, or... ?

This whole thread is ripe for miscommunication, since we're talking about a lot of different possibly incendiary topics - the specific programs mentioned, any programs meant to give men more confidence in approaching women, intentions of people following such programs, whether women have better social skills than men, gender stereotypes, etc...

-Adam

The Gabe/Tycho argument. Not you. I seldom insult someone personally, assface

-- Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:21 pm --

I feel ya, Espy. I think that there's a lot of guys out there who related, but the fact remains that the OP is seriously smurfed up.

Granted, I'm seriously smurfed up, but did you mean "Original post" or "Original poster", and if the former, Tycho and Gabe's tête-à-tête or my comments, or... ?

This whole thread is ripe for miscommunication, since we're talking about a lot of different possibly incendiary topics - the specific programs mentioned, any programs meant to give men more confidence in approaching women, intentions of people following such programs, whether women have better social skills than men, gender stereotypes, etc...

-Adam

The Gabe/Tycho argument. Not you. I seldom insult someone personally, assface

 

[Gusto]

So.

This thread, huh.

How 'bout that.

 

[sixpackshaker]

Bringing home 40 girls a semester (Which seems....difficult to believe) doesn't prove any sort of game other than alcohol being involved.

I was his room mate and best friend, I saw the parade.

He was short, fat, not handsome, and quite charming. The epitome of a guy having game. He was very charismatic. He could have anyone laughing in minutes. It also did not hurt that he was hung like a horse and girls talk.

He was also a recovering junkie when I met him. Junkies are very good at manipulating people.

His ex-lovers would introduce their friends to him. We would also go hit the clubs early, and by 9:00 he would leave with a girl. Then come back by 11:00 to get the second of the evening. Drunk girls were out, they are not good in the hay.

 

[Le Quack]

When I was a middle of the road teen, I read a pick-up guide online that was pretty comprehensive. It gave me a self-esteem boost and tools with which to talk to women.

I can't tell you how much more comfortable I became with women after reading how to communicate body language wise with women. Despite what others may use pick up theories for, they are very useful in learning how to flirt, charm, and become friends with women(or avoid friendzone with women). It's not cheating or manipulative, it's learning how to have a conversation with a woman with the interest in romantic, or physical relations with said woman.

Salesmen do the same thing, and I don't get upset when I get what I want. Ultimately they won't go for something they don't want, so you aren't "tricking" them.

 

[Bubble181]

Huh. Lots of anger at depressed low-self-esteem guys in this here thread. Nice.
There sure are plenty of men who would take this sort of courses with just the intent posted by some here - manipiulate women into having sex, trying to "play a game", etc etc. And the ones offering these lessons are, obviously, ripping those - and others - off. Have you seen those prices?! Hell.
That doesn't mean that anyone who turns to this sort of things necessarily has this view, though. As Gave states in his follow-up...Plenty of guys with anxiety about.
And while I'm all in favour of equality and what have you, fact remains women ARE ten times the manipulators men are, in general, simply because men are more easily manipulated by their sexual blahblahblah. Ecce Homo, and all that - completely explainable through evolutionary psychology. This doesn't make women evil, men weak, or this a self-evident and universal thruth; it does make it a statistically sound fact in human relationships.
I've seen and known too many guys who really are assholes and don't even look that good, walk away with the nice girls (who, of course, feel bad afterwards, etc etc, enter the "bad boy"and "nice guy" syndromes, and so on). Having "game" is important. Knowing how to control your body language; learning a bit about hwo to interact and how to give the right impression - like Steinman said, this is pretty similar to all communication. Debating techniques, dating techniques, they basically come down to the same type of stuff, just differently implemented.
I know I have 0 control over my body language, I'm a nervous wreck, and it shows, and I have pretty low self-esteem, and it shows - and that this is (at least in part) why I can't convince the nice girls to go out with me. (not meant this post to be a baw, dammit. Oh well :-p).
Anyway, while these lessons are probably scum giving crappy "tips" to saps for a lot of money, I fail to see how it'd be wrong for a guy like me to try and find ways to better be able to communicate with women, or how to improve their chances. *shrug*

 

[Charlie Don't Surf]

I'd love to see guys with low self-esteem work through their issues and get help, and have successful, healthy relationships. I just think any of these Pick-up Artist-esque classes won't help said guys.

 

[checkeredhat]

If you need a confidence boost, get a commission paying door to door sales job. Seriously. Either you become confident and get over your anxiety or you don't make money.

I feel like if I can sell a product for 2-6 times the competition, I can sell anything in the world, including myself.

 

[Bubble181]

I just think any of these Pick-up Artist-esque classes won't help said guys.

Well, duh. Some people in this thread, who so like to rail against victimizing certain groups or prejudices, sure seemed to be pretty much saying that anyone who would even consider this sort of thing is a completely useless "extreme" example of people who shouldn't breed, etc etc. Saying men who might be interested in a way to get more confidence are de facto all just dehumanising assholes who aren't interested in another person's well-being 's just as much an ignorant remark as the opposite.
Thinking these things may actually work is silly, though. :-P

 

[Dieb]

I don't know guys....chicks can use what God gave them to be manipulative.

I've used my charms to talk prices down at stores and Flea Markets...nothing really major. The one who has been really bad for this and still is would be my sister. She can get anything from a guy and she has the amazing ability to disregard said guys feelings the whole time.

*, I can name at least five other girls that manipulate men, either knowingly or unknowingly.

So don't get all 'white knight' on me. Most chicks know how to pull the strings to get what they want...I see this as leveling the playing field.

I think that manipulating people to get what you want, with no regard to the person being manipulated, is wrong whether guys or girls do it. Just because women do it doesn't mean men should. Two wrongs don't make a right. Etc.

Now, obviously, there is manipulation and there is manipulation. There's nothing wrong with a little flirting, as someone who's worked as a waiter it's basically all about a little bit of flirting. But if you're, say, implying that you'll sleep with someone to get a discount (not that I'm saying you or your sister are doing this! I'm just pushing it to the point where it'd be wrong) or intentianally insulting someone to prey on their low self esteem so they'll sleep with you (the "neg" that Tycho's friend talks about in a post that's up on their site now) that's just fucked up.

 

[Chazwozel]

Holy fucking shit. Women are not some alien fucking species. *Gasp* they're actual people too! ZOMG! News of the century! It's not that hard to talk to women, some guys just need a swift kick to the balls. It's the goddamn nice guy syndrome. 99% of the time your typical 'nice guy' is really the manipulative asshole.

 

[fade]

Just because a stronger sex drive (or a different sex drive) in men than in women, or even another the recognition of that difference and leveraged use thereof to obtain something desired introduces some uncomfortable "imbalance" in the sexes, it doesn't mean it's a) not "true" (in a statistical sense) or b) that the person saying so is a misogynist. Men and women are different. It may not be a simply explainable difference, and there may be many deviations to the population means. Pointing out valid trends doesn't make you a sexist. Trying overly hard to enforce some artificial one-to-one correlation (intentionally avoiding the value-laden word "equality") might be, though.

 

[Chippy]

Holy fucking shit. Women are not some alien fucking species. *Gasp* they're actual people too! ZOMG! News of the century! It's not that hard to talk to women, some guys just need a swift kick to the balls. It's the goddamn nice guy syndrome. 99% of the time your typical 'nice guy' is really the manipulative asshole.

This.

Also, isn't there a comic about that somewhere?

 

[Chazwozel]

I think you're being overly dramatic. Girls have been using their "feminine wiles" to manipulate men since the beginning of time. Do you really think the mind games girls play on guys are any better or worse than this stuff. The only difference is that this sort of thing comes naturally to women. Guys are in a tight spot because in very real terms, we have nothing they want. They on the other hand, have vaginas. They can make us do pretty much what ever they want. I don't see anything wrong with guys trying to learn some tricks of their own.

This is the quote that is really telling to me. It's not a conscious, aggressive misogyny, but it's very ignorant and fits right in with the sort of casual sexism that is incredibly pervasive in the social consciousness. Saying that manipulation comes naturally to women, or that "we have nothing they want," is not just crass, it's completely inaccurate and represents a heavy bit of cognitive dissonance. Why would women manipulate and prey on men if we have nothing they want?

I do agree with the very basic idea that Gabe is getting at, which is that if guys have a lot of anxiety around women, there's nothing wrong with teaching them to overcome that anxiety. However, he's missing the point that these pick-up groups and such don't teach how to overcome anxiety at all, they just teach how to manipulate and prey on women.

On the one hand, yeah, most guys could use classes in how to approach and charm women (who, by and large, enjoy being charmed just short of being manipulated).

On the other hand, once you roll 20's for charisma, are you really giving her something she wants, or manipulating her?

At what point does this information and skill remove the girl's ability to choose? Is it any different than advertising a product she didn't want, and doesn't need, but after the commercial she wants?

Also, what, if anything, is the difference between being manipulated and feeling manipulated? Does it matter?

-Adam

These pick-up classes are not interested in giving the women anything they want. They are entirely about you, the man, getting what you want. The women don't enter into the equation other than as objects of desire. The metaphor of hunting them from the back of a jeep is pretty apt; these men don't care about the women they are targeting, except as the means of exercising sexual dominance.

Holy hell. I 100% agree and condone what you're saying!

 

[Raemon777]

How many people have actually read through what the "seduction community" people actually have to say? 'Cause while I'm sure a lot of them are milking desperate guys for money and others are promoting douchebaggery, I did read some of the sample stuff by David DeAngelo, and it really did make sense in the context of what I've seen work and what girls have told me works. DeAngelo is the one who advocates the "cocky and funny" approach. It's not about using specific pickup lines to automatically have sex with someone, it's an overall attitude. He has some sample pickup lines but those are just a hook to grab their attention, and saying them without confidence would be useless.

Looking through the wikipedia entry, I see some things that lend themselves towards misogyny (negative compliments designed to weaken self esteem being the biggest offender) but overall they strike me as perfectly valid approaches that would work just as well on a woman you really care about as on a random bar skank. Pickup lines and scripted stories may be problematic because they won't necessarily work in all circumstances if you can't adapt them, but I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with them.

I'm 23, and have never had a girlfriend. For a while, lack of confidence was a huge problem. But it hasn't been for a while now. Instead, the problem is that my confidence comes in the form of being willing to do absurd things that may be funny, may be clever and witty, but aren't attractive. I was actually told just today by a girl in my class that, with some frequency, I have moments where I come off as sexy in my own nerdy way, but that I usually ruin it by going on to say or do something too silly. And this matches with one of DeAngelo's main points - a lot of people think you want to be a goofy, funny guy, but by itself, that doesn't make you attractive, just goofy and funny. Learning what is attractive and what is not takes time just like anything else and I don't think there's anything wrong with a class to help you.

That said, I'm not sure I care enough to change my behavior. I'm not goofy because I'm trying to pick up chicks, I'm goofy because I like being goofy. But I do not doubt for a second that if I was willing to refine that behavior I'd have a much easier time finding dates, (and by extension, a worthwhile meaningful relationship, which is my actual end goal).

The one thing that gives me a little pause is that even with a relationship as an endgoal, the process of getting there (if you are not naturally good at it and don't luck into meeting someone perfect for you in perfect circumstances) requires you to practice talking to lots of girls. Which I admit has lead me to a point where I subconsciously think that this particular girl "doesn't matter" because if I mess up I can just find and talk to another one. I don't think that's inherently bad or misogynistic if you recognize what's happening and work to counter it, but I can definitely see it leading to the kind of "Jeep hunting" that's been mocked here if you weren't think about it.

 

[Chazwozel]

How many people have actually read through what the "seduction community" people actually have to say? 'Cause while I'm sure a lot of them are milking desperate guys for money and others are promoting douchebaggery, I did read some of the sample stuff by David DeAngelo, and it really did make sense in the context of what I've seen work and what girls have told me works. DeAngelo is the one who advocates the "cocky and funny" approach. It's not about using specific pickup lines to automatically have sex with someone, it's an overall attitude. He has some sample pickup lines but those are just a hook to grab their attention, and saying them without confidence would be useless.

Looking through the wikipedia entry, I see some things that lend themselves towards misogyny (negative compliments designed to weaken self esteem being the biggest offender) but overall they strike me as perfectly valid approaches that would work just as well on a woman you really care about as on a random bar skank. Pickup lines and scripted stories may be problematic because they won't necessarily work in all circumstances if you can't adapt them, but I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with them.

I'm 23, and have never had a girlfriend. For a while, lack of confidence was a huge problem. But it hasn't been for a while now. Instead, the problem is that my confidence comes in the form of being willing to do absurd things that may be funny, may be clever and witty, but aren't attractive. I was actually told just today by a girl in my class that, with some frequency, I have moments where I come off as sexy in my own nerdy way, but that I usually ruin it by going on to say or do something too silly. And this matches with one of DeAngelo's main points - a lot of people think you want to be a goofy, funny guy, but by itself, that doesn't make you attractive, just goofy and funny. Learning what is attractive and what is not takes time just like anything else and I don't think there's anything wrong with a class to help you.

That said, I'm not sure I care enough to change my behavior. I'm not goofy because I'm trying to pick up chicks, I'm goofy because I like being goofy. But I do not doubt for a second that if I was willing to refine that behavior I'd have a much easier time finding dates, (and by extension, a worthwhile meaningful relationship, which is my actual end goal).

The one thing that gives me a little pause is that even with a relationship as an endgoal, the process of getting there (if you are not naturally good at it and don't luck into meeting someone perfect for you in perfect circumstances) requires you to practice talking to lots of girls. Which I admit has lead me to a point where I subconsciously think that this particular girl "doesn't matter" because if I mess up I can just find and talk to another one. I don't think that's inherently bad or misogynistic if you recognize what's happening and work to counter it, but I can definitely see it leading to the kind of "Jeep hunting" that's been mocked here if you weren't think about it.

You asked her if you could put it in her butt, didn't you? :smug:

 

From Scott's Twitter:

God I SOOO want to get in on this heated discussion at Penny-Arcade.com

 

[Hailey Knight]

Man, people are stupid as hell.

It's like each gender is incapable of realizing that both genders are humans, with thoughts, feelings, vices, intentions... I just want to start slapping so many of them.

 

[@Li3n]

What are you talking about? It's a well known fact that women are hollow robots made on Venus, and men are golems made of martian mud...

 

[Chazwozel]

Man, people are stupid as *.

It's like each gender is incapable of realizing that both genders are humans, with thoughts, feelings, vices, intentions... I just want to start slapping so many of them.

Yup.

I have one hopeless friend, however, that always believes a woman is out to manipulate him. He refuses to do anything for any woman because 'she's just using me'. It's annoying as hell and the dude has some relationship issues. He hates manipulation yet he always ends up with a psycho chick because he over analyzes normal women's behavior to the point of making shit up. For instance, if a girl so much as smiles at him, he thinks that she wants him. If she holds a conversation with him, she's out to get something etc...

:slap:

 

[Qonas]

See though, this one-sentence fix-all is the kind of stuff that pisses me off just as much as sleazy pick-up programs. "Just be confident" or "just remember she is a person too" don't worry when at the very core of your being you are SCARED SHITLESS. One liners repeatedly in your head don't stop the sweating, or the inability to say anything, or cold hard KNOT that forms in your stomach and chest that freezes you in place. You don't help clueless men by saying a sentence and expecting them to totally figure it out.

I'm with Gabe in that, while noting how despicable these programs can be, I understand how the programs could come about in the first place. I sympathize with the men going to them, as I'm practically one of them. I'm sure I have some form of social anxiety but I've never had it checked out as it's never bothered me professionally. But put me in any social situation, even with just guys, and I clam up. If a woman is involved and there's even the slightest interest on my part, those knots form and the sweating flares up and I'm even worse verbally. Dealing with these reactions just by themselves would be tough enough; but now guys like me have to deal with the fact that women are much more focused on the partying aspect of guys for potential dating.

So I may be "misogynistically generalizing", but I only know one (1) woman who did not meet who she is currently dating or married to at a bar or danceclub. One, and that is a case of high school sweethearts. The rest that I know either plow through men like the stereotypical fat American at a buffet, or find a guy at these places and just cling to him even though he's a total asshat. The story is always the same; the guy doesn't appreciate her, is a jerk, but they'll have booty calls so she thinks she can make it work. I'm in a bar trivia group (the group calls me their ringer) and of the three women in it, one is dating someone else in the group who is constantly insulting her throughout the night, another is a shameless partier who will have Facebook status updates such as "Looking for any random makeout session!", and the last has drug issues. This isn't just a random sampling, as it has happened time and again throughout my experience. A girl I asked out in college said we were too good of friends, then promptly dated random 18-year olds from bars and lamented why she can't find "a nice guy". Another habitually sleeps with men who are dating other women, then apologizes profusely and swears she knows it is wrong, then goes on and keeps doing it. The one girl I attempted (badly) to ask out in high school constantly updates her Facebook with pictures from clubs and from partying...and also with status updates such as "Men are evil " and "Why can't I find good guys?", without putting 2 and 2 together.

So yes, when there's a constant signal from women that you have to be a jackass drunk at a club in order to date them it tends to make those of us guys who aren't a part of that culture wonder what the hell we can do. For even those few handfuls of women who don't subscribe to this theory of bar hookups require a constant navigation through a sea of non-verbal communication and flirting that is overwhelming for someone who reacts in social situations as I do. It's not just as easy as "being confident" and it's not just as easy as constantly reminding yourself "they're just people". So when I read stories like the one from Japan about the pillow loving and about these pick-up groups, sure it's scummy but I also completely understand. Society is forcing more and more people into these extremes because they can't curb their own behavior in the other extreme.

 

[Charlie Don't Surf]

It is a random sampling. All women aren't whores. This sounds like such a cliche, and I raged against it until it happened to me too (lol random sampling!!!), but with the right girl, it's shockingly easy.

 

[Jake]

So I may be "misogynistically generalizing", but I only know one (1) woman who did not meet who she is currently dating or married to at a bar or danceclub.

I know maybe one couple who met at a bar, and they didn't even go home with each other that night. And my friends and I (male and female) have spent a lot of time in bars. You're clearly running in the wrong circles.

 

[AshburnerX]

As someone with severe anxiety issues, I'm not opposed to any help I can get with the initial meeting. If I can get someone one talking to me, I usually loosen up enough that I can at least keep them interested... but currently this relies on them making the initial contact, as my crippling insecurities keep me from making the first move. I'm not looking to hunt down a girl from the back of a jeep... I just need help actually working myself up enough to take the shot, and I'm sure that's the case for a lot of guys.

 

[Chazwozel]

As someone with severe anxiety issues, I'm not opposed to any help I can get with the initial meeting. If I can get someone one talking to me, I usually loosen up enough that I can at least keep them interested... but currently this relies on them making the initial contact, as my crippling insecurities keep me from making the first move. I'm not looking to hunt down a girl from the back of a jeep... I just need help actually working myself up enough to take the shot, and I'm sure that's the case for a lot of guys.

sigh... would you approach a man to be your friend with a preoutlined plan? Is that how you got your current friends? By planning out how to approach strangers and seeing what works? No one does! You make friends through chance encounters and by being introduced by other friends from various social circles. Guess what? Finding women is no different. My advice to all the lonely guys out there. Hang out with your buddies more and get introduced to new people often. Is you buddy going to a party at some dude named Joe's house? Don't chicken out and say you'd rather play Nintendo. Go out and have a good time. Mingle. Is your buddy going to a restaurant with his girlfriend and they're bring along a couple friends? Ask him if you can tag along.

Hell man, I was just leaving work the other day (I work in downtown Philly), I stopped at a pub outside of 30th street station to get a bite to eat since I was starving. There was a crew of construction workers there for happy hour. I just started shooting the shit with them after listening to the one guy tell some jokes. Mexico was playing the U.S. in Soccer on the T.V. and we all started to make fun of the Mexican team. "They force the losers to drink Corona." Anyway, it's shit like that that gets you into all sorts of social circles and exposure to more and more people. Maybe if I come in next week those guys will invite me to their house for beer and they'll introduce me to their wives' friends (if I was single and looking); maybe it was a one time encounter but at the least I had someone to shoot the shit with at the pub before getting the train.

My point is, that most of these guys having trouble finding a significant other usually stick to a close net circle of friends and never expand their horizons. The other problem tends to be high standards for a low standard person. What I mean is if your fat, lazy, and smell, you're not going to ace a supermodel girlfriend, yet I always see fat slobby guys shun the fat slobby women and try to pick up good looking women. If the pick up goes sour, they call those women shallow. Nice double standard. Honestly though, I'm not saying one needs to have a washboard stomach and perfect teeth, but they help.

You know they say networking is the best and number 1 way people get jobs, it's really no different on the dating scene.

 

[AshburnerX]

Ok, but your missing the point Chaz: Some people (like myself) are simply incapable of forming those network connections or circles of friends because of some sort of mental condition, introversion, or just a general overall lack in self confidence. Telling us to man it up and get out there isn't a solution, as our very natures prevent us from doing that. It's actually insulting to claim its so simple because we're living proof that its not.

What we are looking for (most of us anyway) is the confidence to be able to stand on our own in these situations so we CAN simply go out and let it happen. All I'm trying to say here is that if these kinds of techniques can help somebody gain that confidence, are they really so bad? Yeah, it's not going to help out those guys who are simply trying to score beautiful woman for one night stands, but it COULD help the shy, awkward guy finally get up the courage to ask out that girl he's been hanging out with for months.

 

Girls have the same types of issues we do. Some are confident and some are not. Some have game and some do not. The trick is realizing that NOBODY has the answer for you but you. If it's that bad I'd consider doing something to take care of it. Overweight? Go to the gym. Not to meet a girl but to lose weight. Bad teeth? Go to the dentist. Basically, find out what it is about yourself that YOU think prevents you from being attractive. Once you've worked on that, you will have more self confidence.

Still having issues talking to someone? Get thee to a therapist! Join a church group. Take up a SOCIAL hobby like softball, bowling, etc. DON'T go out looking for love. Just go out & have fun. Relax. Geeks like us tend to overthink these things. Trust me. I wish I had photos of how I looked in my early 20s; HUGE glasses, fucked up teeth, skinny as a rail, long scraggly hair. I got my hair cut, got new glasses & started hanging out with my friends. That was a little longer than 16 years ago. It's also when I met my wife.

Relax. Have some fun. Drink a couple. Don't sweat it. It'll happen...and not when YOU want it to. It'll happen when you least expect it and it'll come from a totally unexpected direction.

 

[CynicismKills]

Girls have the same types of issues we do. Some are confident and some are not. Some have game and some do not. The trick is realizing that NOBODY has the answer for you but you. If it's that bad I'd consider doing something to take care of it. Overweight? Go to the gym. Not to meet a girl but to lose weight. Bad teeth? Go to the dentist. Basically, find out what it is about yourself that YOU think prevents you from being attractive. Once you've worked on that, you will have more self confidence.

Still having issues talking to someone? Get thee to a therapist! Join a church group. Take up a SOCIAL hobby like softball, bowling, etc. DON'T go out looking for love. Just go out & have fun. Relax. Geeks like us tend to overthink these things. Trust me. I wish I had photos of how I looked in my early 20s; HUGE glasses, fucked up teeth, skinny as a rail, long scraggly hair. I got my hair cut, got new glasses & started hanging out with my friends. That was a little longer than 16 years ago. It's also when I met my wife.

Relax. Have some fun. Drink a couple. Don't sweat it. It'll happen...and not when YOU want it to. It'll happen when you least expect it and it'll come from a totally unexpected direction.

All of this. I've stopped drinking soda, I've been going out more, I shaved my goatee and sideburns, cut my hair, and have at least been trying to be less of a social outcast. It helped to realize that for the most part, it was self-imposed because I believed nobody gave a shit. The last 6 months have shown me otherwise, even though it's been hard on me mentally and financially. Things are working out. I'm still single, but I'm out and talking to people and eventually I'm sure I'll find someone who's interested. No need to rush, no need to push. Just being myself will be enough, I'm sure.

 

[Hailey Knight]

The guys who don't know to shape up, be confident, etc, are really the ones who shouldn't be passing along their genes anyway, leaving it to the more superior.


I'm Chaz now. :toocool: