but escushion, without them, who will we put into lockers after gym class? :smug:escushion said:
Hunting women from the back of a jeep (Penny Arcade)
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He was the abusee when it came to womenAdammon said:
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Chazwozel
Edrondol said:
Damn right!
-- Thu Aug 13, 2009 7:04 pm --
No one can give you confidence and self respect but you! All I'm saying is that if you act like a social outcast you shouldn't expect to meet many people and thus you decrease any chance of meeting someone you get along with. Let's face it, that perfect person isn't going to fall into your lap on a magical whim. I really don't understand what's so hard about talking to other people, men or women. You're human. You're hardwired to socialize at least on one level or another.AshburnerX said:
Sorry to say, if you've been hanging out for months with a girl and nothing's happening, it's probably because there's no interest on the other end. Women will tell you if they want to pursue things further too ya know... I hate that old story of the 'nice guy' getting shafted after months and months of friendship. It's a cop out. You're pretty much calling the girl a dumbass for not realizing that she's in love with you. The reality is that she's not interested.
-- Thu Aug 13, 2009 7:05 pm --
Charlie Dont Surf said:
Chazwozel said:
Chaz, no offense, but everything you just said to Ash and others in this thread can be brought back to this. It's great that you don't have problems talking to people and socializing, it's a great skill that's useful in work life, love life, general getting along with people, having adventures, and whatever. Not everyone has the ability. It may be anxiety issues, it may be some physical disability making it hard on them, it may be a psychological disability, it may just be a general disconnect, it may be trauma-induced in one of a thousand ways, it may be a small form of psychopathy, it may just be that a person's not that good at getting along with people.
Whatever the reason, many - and ever more and more, in this day and age - people have a hard time talking to other people, or, even more so, people from the other gender. That you don't understand what this is like is nice, but it also means that, well, you shouldn't try to give advice and expect to make everything nice and well for them. You may be able to give help and pointers, but just saying "suck it up and deal with it" makes about as much sense as me telling a woman who's having a bad period to "just get over it" because I never have trouble with mine.
So, you know, just accept that some people can't "just go out and have fun". Heck, even for not socially somehow less proficent people, sometimes, those two can be mutually exclusive. For some, especially once you get slightly older and see opportunities disappear, they can really become impossible to combine without a lot of planning and bracing yourself. No, "going out with people, chatting around a bit, having a drink" isn't fun for everyone.
Preferring to sit at home and play games isn't a cop out, it might just be that it's easier, and more calming, and less hurtful, to play a computer game, than it is to go out and try to mix in. Heck, I'm a social guy, I go out lots. I have hundrerds of acquaintances, I eat out with friends at whatever restaurant or times a week, easily. So, I'm in a different category than Ash is, probably. That I can't connect with women has other reasons, and I'm aware of most of them - that I can't or won't change thme is another matter. Still, I can probably identify with him quite a bit more than you can. So...Just say " I don't understand your problem". It won't come off as degrading.
Thank you Bubble... I was looking for a way to phrase that that wouldn't sound like I was calling him a jerk, because I could tell he wasn't trying to be.
I don't think these classes are the answer.
I'm still not the best of socializers, but I was worse younger. My parents thought I had Asberger's. But around when I turned 19, I sucked it up, grew a pair, and stopped giving a shit what happened. And it sucks at first. Everyone feels like an ass going across the room to talk to a girl, just for her to blow you off, but you should also get a sense of pride that you tried.
I'm still not the best of socializers, but I was worse younger. My parents thought I had Asberger's. But around when I turned 19, I sucked it up, grew a pair, and stopped giving a shit what happened. And it sucks at first. Everyone feels like an ass going across the room to talk to a girl, just for her to blow you off, but you should also get a sense of pride that you tried.
Yeah, I mean I got shot down after the girl told me I was someone she could love, but we can't be together because I'm not Mormon. It hurt like hell, but you know what? Knowing someone can feel like that about me (and the fact that we still talk and get along) makes me feel pretty fucking good.
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Chazwozel
Well let me start off by saying, I really don't mean to be a dick about it, but I'm not the one usually asking for help in these sorts of situations; it's the guys moping about how they don't have a girlfriend. Anyone can take my advice or leave it. I'm not the one sleeping alone tonight.Bubble181 said:
Preferring to sit at home is exactly a cop out. You've even explain why it is a cop out. It's easier and more comforting. Life isn't easy. And the one thing you can take to the bank is no one is responsible for your life other than you. Your life is what you make of it. If you're lonely and without a partner and you resent it, take a good long look in the mirror cause that's the person to blame. Not social anxiety, not physical disability, not that asshole (that's dating the girl of your dreams, if only she'd come around and see what a great guy you'd be for her). Social anxiety is just another word for low self-esteem. Physical disability? Lance Armstrong survived cancer and went on to win the Tour de France. That guy has done more with one ball then most men do with two.
-- Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:18 pm --
escushion said:
I wouldn't even try the direct approach like that. Every girl I ended up in a meaning relationship with by simply getting introduced through friends. Now one nighters... that's a whole other kettle of fish.
Gotta love the club rats. I'm sure you and your buds still got a good laugh over the pick up approach. Fact of the matter is, who cares if they blow you off. There are-what- like 3 billion other women in the world?
As the self-anointed quiet person on the boards, I figured I should contribute to a thread about talking to people.
I'm incredibly shy. The idea of talking to somebody I don't know or only kind of know makes me feel kind of weak in the knees. I'm not exactly at that level where I can just walk up to somebody and start a conversation.
I don't have much confidence in my skills as a conversationalist. I realize the only way to get better as a conversationalist is to practice and the only way to practice is to have conversations. Conversing with people, small talk or regular talk, makes me nervous. That said, the only way for me to get better is to decide I'm not nervous. It's hard and I'll probably make an ass out of myself multiple times, but being Allen, who is an Idiot beats being Allen, who is Lonely any day of the weak.
It's hard, but at this point, the only way for me to beat anxiety is to decide I'm not anxious at all.
I'm incredibly shy. The idea of talking to somebody I don't know or only kind of know makes me feel kind of weak in the knees. I'm not exactly at that level where I can just walk up to somebody and start a conversation.
I don't have much confidence in my skills as a conversationalist. I realize the only way to get better as a conversationalist is to practice and the only way to practice is to have conversations. Conversing with people, small talk or regular talk, makes me nervous. That said, the only way for me to get better is to decide I'm not nervous. It's hard and I'll probably make an ass out of myself multiple times, but being Allen, who is an Idiot beats being Allen, who is Lonely any day of the weak.
It's hard, but at this point, the only way for me to beat anxiety is to decide I'm not anxious at all.
I find myself in a kind of in between phase of learning how to socialize. I didn't really party or anything in highschool, and soon after going to college I met my girlfriend who I dated for 3 years. I knew how to talk to HER and that was enough. At least, it was until she dumped me. Now I'm 23 and just now learning how to get out there an talk to people. There was a while where I thought it was impossible. The first step to changing though, was to admit that I could and decide that I want to. And I know that kinda sounds dickish, but I don't know how else to put.
The thing to remember is baby steps. Getting over anxiety isn't like flicking a switch off. Chazwozel has some decent advice. Go out with your friends when you can. I used to avoid parties and stuff, because I always figured I'd have nothing to say, and sometimes it's true. Sometimes I just chill in the back and only talk to my friends. Sometimes though, I actually do mingle and it's never as scary as I initially think.
I'm not to the point where I can just go out alone, but I go out with some friends and talk to who they talk to. I know I'll get to where I want to be, but it'll take time and effort.
The thing to remember is baby steps. Getting over anxiety isn't like flicking a switch off. Chazwozel has some decent advice. Go out with your friends when you can. I used to avoid parties and stuff, because I always figured I'd have nothing to say, and sometimes it's true. Sometimes I just chill in the back and only talk to my friends. Sometimes though, I actually do mingle and it's never as scary as I initially think.
I'm not to the point where I can just go out alone, but I go out with some friends and talk to who they talk to. I know I'll get to where I want to be, but it'll take time and effort.
Well, my point is - with me, AwiQ, Phil, Ashburner, CynicismKills, North_ranger, and quite a few others here, we have a pretty large group of people in different steps along the way. Ashburner and I forgot who, but at least one other here, sound like they're probably having the most problems right now - though I'd say I was worse off, a while ago. Batdan's another example of one who was in a similar situation but somehow ended up leaving us for that bitch who steals all his time with us....I mean, the probably awesome girl he's dating right now (I know his absence here has more to do with other reasons, and I'm happy for him, it's my bad attempt at making a joke).
I think pretty much everyone here agrees these lessons are not the answer. Heck, I'll even go as far as saying that everyone here is aware that sitting aloone at home isn't going to magically solve anything.
Still, even if we're agreed on that, and even if I agree with you that going out, practising, talking to girls, hanging out with friends, etc, is the only way to "get over" it; even if I agree that the only way to become better at socialising - and, thus, become less anxious - is to go out and do it, that still doesn't mean "you're a pussy, grow a pair and get out, wimp" is quite the way I'd go about trying to motivate those with trouble doing that.
To make a not-quite-perfect comparison, the only way to lose weight and get in shape is to start moving and exercising. But obese people are also those who have low self-esteem (on their physical appearance), do NOT enjoy exercise, have a hard time working up the courage to begin, and, because they are out of shape, see the least results and have the hardest time keeping it up.
A fit, healthy young guy who likes running and lifting weights can easily say "oh, just suck it up, running's fun! We're made to run! Hop to it!", but that doesn't suddenly make it easy for a fat guy to do it. For someone who's completely out of shape, just walking around the block might be quite an achievement - telling him to go out and run a mile because it'll make him feel good, is silly and self-defeating, because it confronts him with something that the sporty guy still considers an "easy" thing to do, while it's frankly impossible for him at that point.
Chaz, I know you're trying to help and all that, but you come off as pushing too hard, too fast, which tends to not work. I know, it works for some people, in some cases, blahblahblah, but, contrary to what you tend to see in movies about the army and such - it DOESNT work for the majority of people.
I don't know just how bad it is in Ash's case, so I can't judge, and I might insult him now, but for all I know, it could be an achievement for him to just have a friend over and play some games with him, and talk to him. Going out to a club/bar/party/whatnot with a group of friends, and there not only get introduced to new people, but actually talk with these and try to accomlish something with such conversation, may be a long way off. Having a friend over (or going over to a friends') may seem ridiculous to you, but it might be a necessary step and a small but meaningful victory to him.
Heck, I posted in the Win thread earleir today about the fact that I actually dared to ask a girl out for the first time. Mind you, I'm 24 and I've finished high school, college, and university, without ever working up the guts to do so. Laugh all you want. *shrug*
I think pretty much everyone here agrees these lessons are not the answer. Heck, I'll even go as far as saying that everyone here is aware that sitting aloone at home isn't going to magically solve anything.
Still, even if we're agreed on that, and even if I agree with you that going out, practising, talking to girls, hanging out with friends, etc, is the only way to "get over" it; even if I agree that the only way to become better at socialising - and, thus, become less anxious - is to go out and do it, that still doesn't mean "you're a pussy, grow a pair and get out, wimp" is quite the way I'd go about trying to motivate those with trouble doing that.
To make a not-quite-perfect comparison, the only way to lose weight and get in shape is to start moving and exercising. But obese people are also those who have low self-esteem (on their physical appearance), do NOT enjoy exercise, have a hard time working up the courage to begin, and, because they are out of shape, see the least results and have the hardest time keeping it up.
A fit, healthy young guy who likes running and lifting weights can easily say "oh, just suck it up, running's fun! We're made to run! Hop to it!", but that doesn't suddenly make it easy for a fat guy to do it. For someone who's completely out of shape, just walking around the block might be quite an achievement - telling him to go out and run a mile because it'll make him feel good, is silly and self-defeating, because it confronts him with something that the sporty guy still considers an "easy" thing to do, while it's frankly impossible for him at that point.
Chaz, I know you're trying to help and all that, but you come off as pushing too hard, too fast, which tends to not work. I know, it works for some people, in some cases, blahblahblah, but, contrary to what you tend to see in movies about the army and such - it DOESNT work for the majority of people.
I don't know just how bad it is in Ash's case, so I can't judge, and I might insult him now, but for all I know, it could be an achievement for him to just have a friend over and play some games with him, and talk to him. Going out to a club/bar/party/whatnot with a group of friends, and there not only get introduced to new people, but actually talk with these and try to accomlish something with such conversation, may be a long way off. Having a friend over (or going over to a friends') may seem ridiculous to you, but it might be a necessary step and a small but meaningful victory to him.
Heck, I posted in the Win thread earleir today about the fact that I actually dared to ask a girl out for the first time. Mind you, I'm 24 and I've finished high school, college, and university, without ever working up the guts to do so. Laugh all you want. *shrug*
No, picking up the phone and talking to someone who isn't related to me by blood is an achievement. Actually having somebody in my house just to hang out would be fucking amazing. When I say I have anxiety problems, I literally mean I've become the Boo Radley of the neighborhood. It's hard to make friends when you've become as... legendary as I have in my area.Bubble181 said:
Well, there you go. I haven't been that far down the road, luckily, but I sympathize. Known people who've been there, and all that.
Of couyrse, if you have gotten "notorious" for it around where you live,that, in itself, adds to the problems. Reputations of any kind can have a severe impact on relationships - in my home town, I'm still known as the happy cheery one, while in one of my fraternities I really developped the name of being the always-grumpy one. Odd thing is, I usually whistle happily walking around town, and I always end up gloomy and depressed at parties of said fraternity - because people view me that way.
If they view you as the secluded, hermit type of person who doesn't want to interact with others (the difference between "wants to" and "can" is often lost on people), yeah, that adds a layer of problems. I don't have any magic solutions, I'm afraid. If you have some nephew/brother/whatnot of a somewhat similar age you can get along with, that might help. But from what I know so far, I'm going to guess that you either don't have one, or if you do, he made fun of you and you don't actually get along. I may be wrong, basing myself on stereotypes, though.
Also, awesome comparison. Literature instead of comics, hurray!
Of couyrse, if you have gotten "notorious" for it around where you live,that, in itself, adds to the problems. Reputations of any kind can have a severe impact on relationships - in my home town, I'm still known as the happy cheery one, while in one of my fraternities I really developped the name of being the always-grumpy one. Odd thing is, I usually whistle happily walking around town, and I always end up gloomy and depressed at parties of said fraternity - because people view me that way.
If they view you as the secluded, hermit type of person who doesn't want to interact with others (the difference between "wants to" and "can" is often lost on people), yeah, that adds a layer of problems. I don't have any magic solutions, I'm afraid. If you have some nephew/brother/whatnot of a somewhat similar age you can get along with, that might help. But from what I know so far, I'm going to guess that you either don't have one, or if you do, he made fun of you and you don't actually get along. I may be wrong, basing myself on stereotypes, though.
Also, awesome comparison. Literature instead of comics, hurray!
A good way to practice talking to people (I used to bad at it until I started practicing) is to approach people you AREN'T remotely interested in (old ladies in the park for example) and say "Hi. How're you doing?" It's a decent way to get into the habit of talking to strangers, and you can work your way from there to people you're interested in (either romantically or otherwise).
The first step is almost always the hardest.
I used to be painfully shy, ridiculously inept socially, boring and generally creepy. All of those qualities still exist, more or less, today. But before, even the idea of being in a social situation scared the crap out of me.
Then I had a change in environment. I went to university. Everyone was new there. I figured I had nothing to lose, so I went to the Welcome Dinner for incoming first year students. I talked to a girl there, a girl I found attractive and thought I'd like to know better. Her name was Emily, and she was awfully nice to me.
I can still remember the feeling as I looked at her and started to talk. A feeling like, "Oh my god, here I go." Sort of like when you're at the top of a hill in a rickety wagon, and lean forward that little bit to make it start rolling down the hill. You know full well you can't stop the wagon once it starts. You know full well it could end in disaster. Yet you choose to lean forward nonetheless.
I don't remember anything we talked about. But I remember that feeling.
Anyway, once I took that first step, the second step (talking to her again the next day) was slightly easier. And the step after that (talking to her sister, who also went to the same university) slightly easier again.
I have no idea where Emily is now these days. But I'm grateful I got to talk to her.
I used to be painfully shy, ridiculously inept socially, boring and generally creepy. All of those qualities still exist, more or less, today. But before, even the idea of being in a social situation scared the crap out of me.
Then I had a change in environment. I went to university. Everyone was new there. I figured I had nothing to lose, so I went to the Welcome Dinner for incoming first year students. I talked to a girl there, a girl I found attractive and thought I'd like to know better. Her name was Emily, and she was awfully nice to me.
I can still remember the feeling as I looked at her and started to talk. A feeling like, "Oh my god, here I go." Sort of like when you're at the top of a hill in a rickety wagon, and lean forward that little bit to make it start rolling down the hill. You know full well you can't stop the wagon once it starts. You know full well it could end in disaster. Yet you choose to lean forward nonetheless.
I don't remember anything we talked about. But I remember that feeling.
Anyway, once I took that first step, the second step (talking to her again the next day) was slightly easier. And the step after that (talking to her sister, who also went to the same university) slightly easier again.
I have no idea where Emily is now these days. But I'm grateful I got to talk to her.
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