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"I'd rather risk rape than quit partying"

Dec 12, 2012#1

Charlie Don't Surf

http://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/id-rather-risk-rape-than-quit-partying/

This article made me feel very uncomfortable.

Dec 12, 2012#2

GasBandit

Frankly, there are few people I hold in lower regard than chronic "partiers." They're worthless human beings to a man (or woman), attempting to fill the emptiness inside with meaningless hedonism.

That said, this article is completely bonkers for entirely different reasons. It's the rambling confession of a completely broken man who has been absolutely brainwashed into the "all sex is rape and all men are rapists" mindset so common in today's quasifeminist circles. I'd like to draw attention to this paragraph in particular:

A friend of mine once told me about a girl who he knew for a fact had only had two drinks. He didn’t know she was on prescription medication that amplified those two drinks beyond all measure. He thought she was just very horny when she wouldn’t leave him alone or take “Are you okay?” for an answer. It wasn’t until she kept calling him by the wrong name and couldn’t remember the right one that he realized she was not able to consent, and called a halt to things before they went any further. He says he had to dissuade her from pursuing things further, because she was really into it, apart from not knowing who he was or where she was.

“Can you imagine?” he tells me in horrified tones. “I was almost a rapist.”

That guy was not "almost a rapist," he is a man who went above and beyond the call of duty to figure out a woman had poisoned herself into being unable to control herself and took chivalrous and benevolent action. Presuming of course she knowingly took the pills, knowingly drank the drinks, she is not absolved of her actions. If, instead of attempting to initiate sex with that man, she instead robbed a bank. Would that be called an "impromptu accountless cash withdrawal" because she was not in control of herself, and would no charges be pressed?

This isn't to say there aren't bad people (both men and women) looking to prey on substance-addled, sexually vulnerable people, and that those people are both criminally and morally reprehensible. But the brush has gotten way too wide, and no substance abuser, be it drugs, alcohol, or spinning in a chair until dizzy, should be sheltered from the consequences of their actions simply because they're obliviating themselves for recreation, no matter how much better it can feel than being sober.

Dec 12, 2012#3

Charlie Don't Surf

no, that guy was absolutely almost a rapist

Dec 12, 2012#4

Bowielee

Dec 12, 2012#5

GasBandit

Charlie Don't Surf said:
no, that guy was absolutely almost a rapist

No, he was almost a regular guy in a confusing situation... but what he really turned out to be was a conscientious saint.

I hope folks find notarized legal consent forms in triplicate romantic, because that's the logical conclusion of this warped worldview.

Dec 12, 2012#6

Bowielee

I honestly can't wait to see how this pans out. It's like Godzilla Vs Mothra.

Dec 12, 2012#7

Espy

Whole lotta rape talk round these parts. You kids be careful now.

Dec 12, 2012#8

GasBandit

Bowielee said:
I honestly can't wait to see how this pans out. It's like Godzilla Vs Mothra.

You might experience argumentum interruptus, as it's approaching 6 pm central.

Dec 12, 2012#9

Adam

Dec 12, 2012#10

doomdragon6

I always feel compelled to argue with Charlie, but then, it just isn't worth doing.

Dec 12, 2012#11

GasBandit

You guys are lazy.

Dec 12, 2012#12

Ravenpoe

I think Gas skipped the entire rest of the article for the one paragraph that wasn't rape.

Dec 12, 2012#13

GasBandit

Ravenpoe said:
I think Gas skipped the entire rest of the article for the one paragraph that wasn't rape.

Oh, I'm not defending the AUTHOR, just his friend. The author is plainly a terrible human being, faint condemnation that it is.

Dec 12, 2012#14

Ravenpoe

GasBandit said:
Oh, I'm not defending the AUTHOR, just his friend. The author is plainly a terrible human being, faint condemnation that it is.

Ah, ok. We're in agreement.

...

I feel dirty.

Dec 12, 2012#15

Charlie Don't Surf

There's no argument here, Gas believes having sex with someone who "doesn't know who she is or where she is" is consentual.

Dec 12, 2012#16

GasBandit

Charlie Don't Surf said:
There's no argument here, Gas believes having sex with someone who "doesn't know who she is or where she is" is consentual.

Nice squelch attempt. No. Did the man give her the pill that rendered her such? No. Did he even know of its existence? No. This is information he absolutely had no access to, and thus could not be reasonably expected to use in deciding whether or not to fight off the aggressive, yet welcome, sexual advances of the woman in question. He went above and beyond due diligence in discerning her true mental state, and made the appropriate decision thereafter.

Only in bizarro-land should he be branded with the stigma of "almost-rapist."

Dec 12, 2012#17

Adam

I believe it is just sensual...Rowr!

Dec 12, 2012#18

Jay

Dec 12, 2012#19

blotsfan

I mean, I don't think the author is that bad. I don't think the rape was legitimate, and it definitely wasn't "rape rape."

Dec 12, 2012#20

Silent Bob

With what I’ve learned as an adult, I’m pretty sure I’m technically a rapist. Technically nothing. One woman told me herself. Our encounter was years before—I’d been in a drinking contest and she’d been drinking and flirting with me (yes, actually flirting) all evening. As blurry and fucked-up as I was, I read her kiss of congratulation to me as a stronger signal than it was, and with friends hooting and cheering us on, I pressed her up against a wall and… well. Call it rape or call it a particularly harsh third base, I walked away with the impression that it had been consensual, if not really sensible. (She had a boyfriend at the time, but their boundaries were fuzzy.)
Years later, she was in a recovery program—not for alcohol, ironically—and she got in touch with me during the part where she made peace with her past. She wanted to clarify that what had happened between us was without her consent, that it hurt her physically and emotionally, that it was, yes, rape.

Uh, what? What the hell is harsh third base?

Dec 12, 2012#21

Ravenpoe

Silent Bob said:
Uh, what? What the hell is harsh third base?

Surprise fisting?

Dec 12, 2012#22

North_Ranger

I consider myself a hedonist, and this guy makes me sick to my stomach.

Dec 12, 2012#23

Silent Bob

blotsfan said:
I mean, I don't think the author is that bad. I don't think the rape was legitimate, and it definitely wasn't "rape rape."

I think he and the girl he fondled were both extremely drunk and had a weird situation. I'm not sure if she should have branded him a rapist for it. I'd go as far as calling it sexual harassment, but rape? Again, I'm not excusing his actions. I suppose his other examples are questionable, but I've always been of the mindset that someone is responsible for their own actions - both men and women. I don't understand why a drunk man is more to blame than a drunk woman?

Again, I'm not trying to be a rape apologist. There are people who certainly take advantage of incapacitated people, and that's wrong. I'm questioning why a man is in the wrong for having passed out possibly un consensual sex with an equally drunk woman? Aren't both people in the wrong ?

Why I do think he's a horrible person:

Some might think it’s monstrous of me to keep drinking, keep partying. But I have had so many good, positive, happy experiences because I took a chance and altered my state and connected with someone else sexually, it seems crazy to throw all that away. Do people who’ve been in car accidents give up driving?
When I sit down and think about it, it seems like I’ve accepted a certain amount of rape as the cost of doing business, and so have most of the people I know. And that seems like the most sick, fucked-up, broken solution to anything ever. And maybe finding it livable-with condemns us all to hell. I don’t know. I can’t even talk about it under my own name.

He accepts the definition that he considers rape to be a drunken one night stand, and yet he'll still do it.

Dec 12, 2012#24

Silent Bob

Also obligatory:

Dec 12, 2012#25

jwhouk

Wrong subthread?

Dec 12, 2012#26

Gilgamesh

Dec 12, 2012#27

Gared

GasBandit said:
You guys are lazy.

Nah, we just know you're a better debater than we are, and we decided to let you have this one.

Dec 12, 2012#28

Hailey Knight

I had to take medication that would've had severe effects if I drank alcohol while using it.

You know how I handled it? I DIDN'T DRINK ANY FUCKING ALCOHOL. Good gods, do these idiots realize you can kill yourself playing with that shit? Do not mix meds and alcohol.

Also, article guy is a shithead.

Dec 13, 2012#29

WasabiPoptart

I have to agree with Quotemander Prime about not mixing meds with alcohol. There are not only warnings on the bottle, but when you fill the prescription you usually get a printout of information that details known side effects. I can't drink with the medication I'm on. So I don't drink. That female in the "almost a rapist" story blurb was an idiot.

Dec 13, 2012#30

Charlie Don't Surf

and we got 28 posts before any victim-blaming

Dec 13, 2012#31

Snuffleupagus

Charlie Don't Surf said:
and we got 28 posts before any victim-blaming

She was never a victim.

Dec 13, 2012#32

GasBandit

Charlie Don't Surf said:
and we got 28 posts before any victim-blaming

She didn't get raped, she got taken care of by a very conscientious young man. How is she a victim of anything, except her own stupidity?

Dec 13, 2012#33

Bubble181

GasBandit said:
You guys are lazy.

I'm so lazy I'm not going to bother to find the grandpa Simpson leaving .gif. just imagine that here instead of text.

Dec 13, 2012#34

Officer_Charon

Man = rapist, uncontrollable, without morals. Haven't you been paying attention?

Dec 13, 2012#35

GasBandit

Officer_Charon said:
Man = rapist, uncontrollable, without morals. Haven't you been paying attention?

Eh, I don't think that's an accurate summary of Charlie's viewpoint. It's not so much that all men are rapists as all women are rape victims. Thus he dashes into a nearby phone booth, taps his magical turtleshell rim glasses three times, and with a blast of rainbow-colored blinding light becomes...

THE WHITE KNIGHT

Dec 13, 2012#36

Officer_Charon

As a reformed White Knight, I find that HILARIOUS

Dec 13, 2012#37

Gared

Charlie Don't Surf said:
and we got 28 posts before any victim-blaming

Careful there, Charlie. You're right on the verge of insinuating that women are too weak and feeble-minded to be responsible for their own decisions, like drinking alcohol while taking medications that specifically prohibit such, and that men must therefor be in charge of every aspect of a woman's life.

Dec 13, 2012#38

Charlie Don't Surf

Passing out in the middle of a party is not giving consent

Dec 13, 2012#39

Frank

Charlie Don't Surf said:
Passing out in the middle of a party is not giving consent

It didn't sound like she had passed out. Of all the things in that article to get bent out of shape over, why is it that one?

Dec 13, 2012#40

Charlie Don't Surf

Frank said:
It didn't sound like she had passed out. Of all the things in that article to get bent out of shape over, why is it that one?

I was taking it to the farthest extreme. Not knowing who you are or where you are - you can't give consent.

Dec 13, 2012#41

GasBandit

And I'm going to go one further for CDS's reading pleasure as well - It just occurred to me... the friend in the story was closer to being a rape victim than the woman was! Consider if, once he figured out she was drug-addled and out of control, he decided he didn't want sex with her any more. Probably the only thing still stopping her at that point was (I'm assuming) that the guy was physically larger and stronger than her, and thus put a stop to the situation.

But what if the situation had been reversed? What if a man, we'll call him Joe, had taken pills and drank 2 beers, suddenly turning him into an aggressively horny maniac with no concept of self or location? Suppose the girl he met, we'll call her Jane, was unaware of the drugs reacting with his mere 2 beers but upon realizing his mental state decided she didn't want to have sex with him any more and put a stop to it, despite his firm insistence and amorous advances. Who really just got "almost raped" here? Joe, or Jane? The answer is plain... the author's male friend "Jane" in the article was closer to being a victim.

Dec 13, 2012#42

Gared

Charlie Don't Surf said:
Passing out in the middle of a party is not giving consent

And no one said it was. We said that the girl who drank while taking meds prohibiting drinking should be responsible for herself and not drink while taking medications that prohibit drinking. We also said that the guy who (gasp) didn't take advantage of the situation did not "almost rape her" because he did nothing of the sort. He did everything in his power to find out why she was being so aggressively sexual, and when he found out that she was incapable of giving consent, he didn't have sex with her.

But by now everyone here should know that we can't do anything to make you see beyond the one itty-bitty little point that you want to put forward. So I'm done trying to make you see a point of view other than your own. Go ahead and continue to think that, while every other man in the world is the worst kind of scum imaginable, you're above that.

Dec 13, 2012#43

LittleSin

Holy shit guys.

This is really fuckin' stupid.

I know, not contributing much but...DAMN.

Dec 13, 2012#44

SpecialKO

LittleSin said:
Holy shit guys.

This is really fuckin' stupid.

I know, not contributing much but...DAMN.

You know what's not stupid, but in fact AWESOME? Your avatar.

[/contributing even less]

Dec 13, 2012#45

Adam

SpecialKO said:
You know what's not stupid, but in fact AWESOME? Your avatar.

[/contributing even less]

Agreed

[/lesser]

Dec 13, 2012#46

sixpackshaker

ditto

Dec 13, 2012#47

WasabiPoptart

yep

Dec 13, 2012#48

SpecialKO

Dec 13, 2012#49

LittleSin

Dec 13, 2012#50

North_Ranger

PINEAPPLE!

Dec 13, 2012#51

LittleSin

Though, really, the credit goes to ThatNickGuy for the avatar.

Dec 13, 2012#52

WasabiPoptart

North_Ranger said:
PINEAPPLE!

Red Pineapple!

Dec 13, 2012#53

North_Ranger

Invisible Red Pineapple!

Dec 13, 2012#54

WasabiPoptart

Christmas Pineapple!

Dec 13, 2012#55

figmentPez

World War II pineapple:

Dec 13, 2012#56

Adam

Housing pineapple:

Dec 13, 2012#57

BErt

Dec 13, 2012#58

GasBandit

Dec 13, 2012#59

Hailey Knight

Charlie Don't Surf said:
and we got 28 posts before any victim-blaming

I'm not blaming her for being not a victim of rape, I'm blaming her for risking killing herself because she couldn't lay off the hooch.

Dec 13, 2012#60

Jax

GasBandit said:

Well, at least you made it to one and a half pages

Dec 13, 2012#61

GasBandit

Jax said:
Well, at least you made it to one and a half pages

Nobody should have to put up with pineapple spam.

Dec 13, 2012#62

Gared

GasBandit said:
Nobody should have to put up with pineapple spam.

Unless it's on pizza. Or in eggs. Or in one of those weird sushi-like roll-ish things that they serve in Hawaii. Oh wait, you said pineapple spam, not pineapple AND spam. My bad.

Dec 13, 2012#63

WasabiPoptart

GasBandit said:
Nobody should have to put up with pineapple spam.

That's one kind of Spam I have not seen in the stores here.

Dec 13, 2012#64

sixpackshaker

WasabiPoptart said:
That's one kind of Spam I have not seen in the stores here.

I thought Pineapple, SPAM, and Macadamia Nuts where the only foods available in Hawaii...

Dec 13, 2012#65

Silent Bob

I still don't understand why Charlie feels it's 100% a male's job to be the responsible party if both people are equally inebriated.

Dec 13, 2012#66

sixpackshaker

Silent Bob said:
I still don't understand why Charlie feels it's 100% a male's job to be the responsible party if both people are equally inebriated.

dood, this thread is now about pineapples. let chuck start another troll thread.

Dec 13, 2012#67

Silent Bob

sixpackshaker said:
dood, this thread is now about pineapples. let chuck start another troll thread.

Dec 13, 2012#68

T

The_Khan

I was once accused of rape by a girl, because I wouldn't go out with her on a second date (because she was fucking nuts)

Dec 13, 2012#69

LittleSin

I have a cousin that accused a guy of rape because she didn't like the fact said guy liked my OTHER cousin. Needless to say, there was on rape. She hadn't even had sex.

Though I felt awful. She confided in me that she had been 'raped' and I told my Dad who told her parents.

She doesn't like me any more.

Dec 13, 2012#70

WasabiPoptart

sixpackshaker said:
I thought Pineapple, SPAM, and Macadamia Nuts where the only foods available in Hawaii...

You forgot pog and coconuts.

Dec 13, 2012#71

David

Dec 13, 2012#72

ThatNickGuy

Go banana!

Dec 13, 2012#73

Timmus

Dec 13, 2012#74

Gusto

OH MY GOD TELEFRANCAIS :megusta:

Dec 13, 2012#75

Covar

Dec 13, 2012#76

WasabiPoptart

Dec 13, 2012#77

bhamv3

I love pineapple, but I have never once sliced up a pineapple myself. Always a family member, or canned pineapple. Today if you gave me a knife and a pineapple and told me to help myself, I'd put the knife down and start eating the pineapple whole.

Dec 13, 2012#78

Timmus

Dec 14, 2012#79

WasabiPoptart

bhamv3 said:
I love pineapple, but I have never once sliced up a pineapple myself. Always a family member, or canned pineapple. Today if you gave me a knife and a pineapple and told me to help myself, I'd put the knife down and start eating the pineapple whole.

Psst.

The internet can tell you how to do it.

Dec 14, 2012#80

Terrik

bhamv3 said:
I love pineapple, but I have never once sliced up a pineapple myself. Always a family member, or canned pineapple. Today if you gave me a knife and a pineapple and told me to help myself, I'd put the knife down and start eating the pineapple whole.

Wouldn't that...wouldn't that kinda hurt?

Dec 14, 2012#81

bhamv3

Terrik said:
Wouldn't that...wouldn't that kinda hurt?

Dunno, never tried.

Dec 14, 2012#82

North_Ranger

David said:

I'm sorry, I just can't like this because I know how bats*it crazy some people can get when you tell them "we'd better just be friends". I wasn't threatened with rape charges, but knowing what she was like, I wouldn't have been that much surprised.

Dec 14, 2012#83

LittleSin

Gusto said:
OH MY GOD TELEFRANCAIS

Holy shit..the night mares are back.

Dec 14, 2012#84

Gilgamesh

North_Ranger said:
I'm sorry, I just can't like this because I know how bats*it crazy some people can get when you tell them "we'd better just be friends". I wasn't threatened with rape charges, but knowing what she was like, I wouldn't have been that much surprised.

I don't think it was meant to be funny, it was meant to be an alternate view on the -all women are rape victims- view that -some- hold.

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