[NHL] Off Season- draft, trades, rumours, withdrawl support

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checkeredhat

checkeredhat

Timmus said:
Hope you like NCAA hockey...

You'll be getting a refund at least.
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I need to double check the refund policy though, cause unless I'm mistaken, the AHL game will still take place even if the NHL one doesn't.

I may only get refunded the cost of the Leafs/ Wings tickets, and although I support the Marlies, I'm not too keen on hitching a ride down to Detroit just for them.


*EDIT: MLSE's ears must have been burning, I just received an e-mail from them, though it isn't about the Winter Classic:


On behalf of the Toronto Maple Leaf Hockey Club, we sincerely appreciate your patience as the National Hockey League (NHL) and National Hockey Leagues Players' Association (NHLPA) negotiate a new Collective Bargaining Agreement.

On Wednesday, The National Hockey League announced the cancellation of the 2012 preseason schedule through Sept. 30. The cancellation of the schedule was necessary because of the absence of a Collective Bargaining Agreement between the NHL Players' Association and the NHL. The NHL remains committed to negotiating 24/7 to reach an agreement that is fair to both sides -- one that provides for a full season of games for our fans.

While the Maple Leafs efforts in creating a world-class experience for our fans are on hold, our commitment to our community remains as strong as ever. The Maple Leafs organization will continue our charitable outreach efforts and community initiatives as the NHL and NHLPA work through the process of securing a new collective agreement.

As a valued fan and member of Leafs Nation, your loyalty and support is very important to our organization. Your passion for the game is what motivates us. Thank you again for your understanding. We greatly appreciate your support. In the meantime, we will keep you informed and provide information as it becomes available.

Sincerely,


Tom Anselmi
President and C.O.O.
Maple Leaf Sports + Entertainment
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I don't think they know what 24/7 means.
 
checkeredhat

checkeredhat

NHL, players' union to resume CBA negotiations Friday

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl...l-nhlpa-labour-talks-union-work-stoppage.html
The NHL and NHL Players' Association have agreed to return to the bargaining table.
Deputy commissioner Bill Daly and NHL Players' Association special counsel Steve Fehr had a face-to-face meeting today in Toronto and scheduled a formal negotiating session between the sides for Friday in New York.
The first collective bargaining negotiations since Sept. 12 are expected to focus on non-core economic issues, a departure from the approach taken in the final weeks before the lockout was enacted.
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Covar

Covar

ESPN3 will be showing 5 KHL games over the next couple of weeks. First was Wednesday, sorry, but the next one is this Saturday. Start time is 11:30 I believe.
 
checkeredhat

checkeredhat

Covar said:
Owners offer 50-50 split to players. If the season can get started in the beginning of November (first or second day) there will be a full 82 game season.
http://blogs.newsobserver.com/canes/decock-nhls-new-offer-reason-for-optimism
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There's a few things in there that I think are going to make the players turn it down (AHL players counting towards salary cap when they currently don't, for one thing*), but this is still the biggest jump towards middle ground either side has made so far, and the owners actually willing to pay out the current contracts is a huge win for the PA, so we're definitely getting closer.

* From the Star's article
And the NHL wants AHL players under NHL contracts to count under the cap. No longer would $6.5 million-a-year players like Wade Redden be buried in the minors. But the more players who count under the cap, the less money there is for players on NHL rosters.
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blotsfan

blotsfan

That's interesting about AHL players. I wonder if it will prevent teams from "loaning" players to Europe and agreeing to pay most of their salary, as the sabres did with ales kotalik last year.
 
checkeredhat

checkeredhat

Some more details released by good ol' Bob McKenzie and Darren Dreger:
http://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2012/10/16/3514402/nhl-lockout-2012-owners-proposal-details-nhlpa
The example provided is if a player signs a contract with an annual average value of $10 million, that value could not vary on a year-by-year basis by more than $500,000. This is to avoid the back-loaded contracts that have been used to sign superstar free agents in recent years (I.E. Ilya Kovalchuk, Ilya Bryzgalov and Shea Weber).
  1. Entry level contracts would go from three-years down to two-years.
  2. Salary arbitration would occur in the fifth-year instead of the fourth.
  3. Unrestricted free agency will start at the age of 28 or after eight years of service. In the previous CBA, UFA status occurred at the age of 27 or after seven years of service.
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Darren Dreger also says the NHLPA is expected to table a counter-proposal within 24-48 hours. (Sometime today or tomorrow)
This is good. Bettman said the reason the league offered this yesterday was so they could still have 9 more days of negotiation and still fit in a week's training camp before starting an 82 game season November 2.

The more I think on this, the more I realize what a smart play this was by the NHL owners. While fans are frustrated with both sides, support has been overwhelmingly on the players' side. The NHL just offered the first actually reasonable deal, in an effort to save an 82 game season, sothat now basically the PA will look like dicks if the season isn't started by Nov 2. Clever.
 
jwhouk

jwhouk

And yet, they could find something that's unreasonable about it.

I think the only thing Fehr could come back with is some sort of "uncapped season" poison pill if they decided to not extend the CBA after the five/six years it's slated to run.

Oh, and what's up with the AHL stuff? I don't think that they could do that (salary of AHL player counts against NHL cap); the PHPA might have a hissy fit.
 
Covar

Covar

I like this is a great starting position. While there are obviously things the Players won't like (and the reverse would obviously be true if the NHLPA put forth an offer first), but there are concessions, and an attempt to address some issues from the last CBA. Fehr would be a fool to accept outright, but there's a definite starting point.

Also thank god for an attempt to close that ridiculous salary cap loophole.
 
jwhouk

jwhouk

I think the ages for FA eligibility and Arbitration eligibility might need to be tweaked if they want the PA to sniff at this.
 
checkeredhat

checkeredhat

Yeah, exactly. It's not so reasonable that the deal is done, obviously. What we get as lowly media consumers is just a brief overview. There are surely a dozen things in there the NHLPA won't like. But the point is, it's a major jump towards middle ground, and its the owners, not the players, who made it (Though, really, it had to be. The players have no real leverage if they make the concessions first.)
But because it's finally in reasonable territory, and fnally some concessions are actually made, my confidence in this season actually getting played is renewed (Still not sure it will be the full but condensed 82 games starting November 2nd, but we'll see).
 
checkeredhat

checkeredhat

One more, little more detailed breakdown of the NHL's proposal, this time from the NHL itself:
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=643570&navid=DL|NHL|home
NHL PROPOSAL TO SAVE 82-GAME SEASON​
1. Term:
• Six-year Agreement with mutual option for a seventh year.
2. HRR Accounting:
• Current HRR Accounting subject to mutual clarification of existing interpretations and settlements.
3. Applicable Players' Share:
• For each of the six (6) years of the CBA (and any additional one-year option) the Players' Share shall be Fifty (50) percent of Actual HRR.
4. Payroll Range:
• Payroll Range will be computed using existing methodology. For the 2012/13 season, the Payroll Range will be computed assuming HRR will remain flat year-over-year (2011/12 to 2012/13) at $3.303 Billion (assuming Preliminary Benefits of $95 Million).
• 2012/13 Payroll Range
Lower Limit = $43.9 Million
Midpoint = $51.9 Million
Upper Limit = $59.9 Million
• Appropriate "Transition Rules" to allow Clubs to exceed Upper Limit for the 2012/13 season only (but in no event will Club's Averaged Club Salary be permitted to exceed the pre-CBA Upper Limit of $70.2 Million).
5. Cap Accounting:
• Payroll Lower Limit must be satisfied without performance bonuses.
• All years of existing SPCs with terms in excess of five (5) years will be accounted for and charged against a team's Cap (at full AAV) regardless of whether or where the Player is playing. In the event any such contract is traded during its term, the related Cap charge will travel with the Player, but only for the year(s) in which the Player remains active and is being paid under his NHL SPC. If, at some subsequent point in time the Player retires or ceases to play and/or receive pay under his NHL SPC, the Cap charge will automatically revert (at full AAV) to the Club that initially entered into the contract for the balance of its term.
• Money paid to Players on NHL SPCs (one-ways and two-ways) in another professional league will not be counted against the Players' Share, but all dollars paid in excess of $105,000 will be counted against the NHL Club's Averaged Club Salary for the period during which such Player is being paid under his SPC while playing in another professional league.
• In the context of Player Trades, participating Clubs will be permitted to allocate Cap charges and related salary payment obligations between them, subject to specified parameters. Specifically, Clubs may agree to retain, for each of the remaining years of the Player's SPC, no more than the lesser of: (i) $3 million of a particular SPC's Cap charge or (ii) 50 percent of the SPC's AAV ("Retained Salary Transaction"). In any Retained Salary Transaction, salary obligations as between Clubs would be allocated on the same percentage basis as Cap charges are being allocated. So, for instance, if an assigning Club agrees to retain 30% of an SPC's Cap charge over the balance of its term, it will also retain an obligation to reimburse the acquiring Club 30% of the Player's contractual compensation in each of the remaining years of the contract. A Club may not have more than two (2) contracts as to which Cap charges have been allocated between Clubs in a Player Trade, and no more than $5 million in allocated Cap charges in the aggregate in any one season.
6. System Changes:
• Entry Level System commitment will be limited to two (2) years (covering two full seasons) for all Players who sign their first SPC between the ages of 18 and 24 (i.e., where the first year of the SPC only covers a partial season, SPC must be for three (3) years).
• Maintenance of existing Salary Arbitration System subject to: (i) total mutuality of rights with regard to election as between Player and Club, and (ii) eligibility for election moved to five years of professional experience (from the current four years).
• Group 3 UFA eligibility for Players who are 28 or who have eight (8) Accrued Seasons (continues to allow for early UFA eligibility -- age 26).
• Maximum contract length of five (5) years.
• Limit on year-to-year salary variability on multi-year SPCs -- i.e., maximum increase or decrease in total compensation (salary and bonuses) year-over-year limited to 5% of the value of the first year of the contract. (For example, if a Player earns $10 million in total compensation in Year 1 of his SPC, his compensation (salary and bonuses) cannot increase or decrease by more than $500,000 in any subsequent year of his SPC.)
• Re-Entry waivers will be eliminated, consistent with the Cap Accounting proposal relating to the treatment of Players on NHL SPCs playing in another professional league.
• NHL Clubs who draft European Players obtain four (4) years of exclusive negotiating rights following selection in the Draft. If the four-year period expires, Player will be eligible to enter the League as a Free Agent and will not be subject to re-entering the Draft.
7. Revenue Sharing:
• NHL commits to Revenue Sharing Pool of $200 million for 2012/13 season (based on assumption of $3.303 Billion in actual HRR). Amount will be adjusted upward or downward in proportion to Actual HRR results for 2012/13. Revenue Sharing Pools in future years will be calculated proportionately.
• At least one-half of the total Revenue Sharing Pool (50%) will be raised from the Top 10 Revenue Grossing Clubs in a manner to be determined by the NHL.
• The distribution of the Revenue Sharing Pool will be determined on an annual basis by a Revenue Sharing Committee on which the NHLPA will have representation and input.
• For each of the first two years of the CBA, no Club will receive less in total Revenue Sharing than it received in 2011/12.
• Current "Disqualification" criteria in CBA (for Clubs in Top Half of League revenues and Clubs in large media markets) will be removed.
• Existing performance and "reduction" standards and provisions relating to "non-performers" (i.e., CBA 49.3(d)(i) and 49.3(d)(ii)) will be eliminated and will be adjusted as per the NHL's 7/31 Proposal.
8. Supplemental and Commissioner Discipline:
• Introduction of additional procedural safeguards, including ultimate appeal right to a "neutral" third-party arbitrator with a "clearly erroneous" standard of review.
9. No "Rollback":
• The NHL is not proposing that current SPCs be reduced, re-written or rolled back. Instead, the NHL's proposal retains all current Players' SPCs at their current face value for the duration of their terms, subject to the operation of the escrow mechanism in the same manner as it worked under the expired CBA.
10. Players' Share "Make Whole" Provision:
• The League proposes to make Players "whole" for the absolute reduction in Players' Share dollars (when compared to 2011/12) that is attributable to the economic terms of the new CBA (the "Share Reduction"). Using an assumed year-over-year growth rate of 5% for League-wide revenues, the new CBA could result in shortfalls from the current level of Players' Share dollars ($1.883 Billion in 2011/12) of up to $149 million in Year 1 and up to $62 million in Year 2, for which Players will be "made whole." (By Year 3 of the new CBA, Players' Share dollars should exceed the current level ($1.883 Billion for 2011/12) and no "make whole" will be required.) Any such "shortfalls" in Years 1 and 2 of the new CBA will be computed as a percentage reduction off of the Player's stated contractual compensation, and will be repaid to the Player as a Deferred Compensation benefit spread over the remaining future years of the Player's SPC (or if he has no remaining years, in the year following the expiration of his SPC). Player reimbursement for the Share Reduction will be accrued and paid for by the League, and will be chargeable against Players' Share amounts in future years as Preliminary Benefits. The objective would be to honor all existing SPCs by restoring their "value" on the basis of the now existing level of Players' Share dollars.
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and an explanation of some of the points.
 
jwhouk

jwhouk

I can see some tweaking there. This is a good place to start, of that I'll agree.

EDIT: I don't think we're gonna have a full 82-game season, though.
 
Vrii

Vrii

I guess I don't understand why people are so willing to believe that the owners actually gave a fair proposal rather than using this to try to swing the media?
 
checkeredhat

checkeredhat

Vrii said:
I guess I don't understand why people are so willing to believe that the owners actually gave a fair proposal rather than using this to try to swing the media?
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It's a bit of both. Nobody really thinks the NHL's proposal was totally fair, everyone figured there'd be negotiations based on that. But it was a smart PR move by the owners for sure. Releasing the details to the public themselves was also sneaky, and made the PA look like fools. But here's where the real sneakiness comes in though in the NHL's PR move, though:

Bettman said:
"None of the three variations of player share that they gave us even began to approach (a) 50-50 (revenue split), either at all or for some long period of time," Bettman said. "It's clear we're not speaking the same language."
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Gee, sounds like the players were really unwilling to negotiate, right?

TSN said:
NHLPA executive director Donald Fehr disagreed, saying two of the proposals would see the players take a fixed amount of revenue, which would turn into an approximate 50-50 split over a five-year term of the deal provided league revenues continued to grow.
The third approach would be a 50-50 split, as long as the league honoured all existing contracts at full value — a claim Daly later refuted in a press release. "It is not a 50-50 deal," he said.
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James Mirtle said:
NHLPA offer No. 1 League revenues Players share percentage
2011-12 $3,303.0 $1,883.0 57.0 per cent
2012-13 $3,468.2 $1,920.0 55.4 per cent
2013-14 $3,641.6 $1,980.0 54.4 per cent
2014-15 $3,823.6 $2,060.0 53.9 per cent
2015-16 $4,014.8 $2,060.0 51.3 per cent
2016-17 $4,215.6 $2,107.8 50.0 per cent


NHLPA offer No. 2 League revenues Players share percentage
2011-12 $3,303.0 $1,883.0 57.0 per cent
2012-13 $3,468.2 $1,923.8 55.5 per cent
2013-14 $3,641.6 $1,966.6 54.0 per cent
2014-15 $3,823.6 $2,011.6 52.6 per cent
2015-16 $4,014.8 $2,058.8 51.3 per cent
2016-17 $4,215.6 $2,108.4 50.0 per cent
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Basically the only difference is the players worked out a way for the current contracts to be honoured at 100% value by shrinking salaries over time, while the NHL's proposal meant those salaries were cut to 50% immediately, and while the rollbacks were to be paid back, it was coming at the cost of other players' salaries, and with a loss of about $133million.

But Bettman told the media players weren't even approaching 50/50, and Fehr did a bad job of explaining himself, which played right into the NHL's hand.

James Mirtle from the Globe and Mail is possibly the best hockey writer I've encountered, and he breaks down the latest two CBA proposals pretty well:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...t-go-for-nhls-latest-proposal/article4618449/

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...-50-compromise-may-not-matter/article4622895/

So, continue to be mad at everyone involved. For being this close , and still walking away from negotiations.
 
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