Paying with pennies

[CrimsonSoul]

8,800 pennies to be exact. Epic video is epic

 

[Thread Necromancer]

Video is not epic. The idea is sound. But video is not epic. Could have been done better. But I speak only from the video stand point.

As for the ACT that was done. It was a dick move. Completely stupid. Completely dickish. Completely rude. But yet, completely LEGAL. And I would have done the exact same.

Fact: The penny is 100% legal currency, rolled or not. If I had been the guy doing it then I'd have taken the same action as him. Hell, I might have been more rude and taken 1 dollar bill out of my pocket and kept reaching for the pennies and shoving them one at a time so she didn't have choice but to count them. I'm not saying it's nice to take it out on someone (like the girl behind the counter) who is just trying to do her job. But he did pay his bill.

On the other hand, Dude was in the wrong for parking where he was getting towed anyway, so it's a dick move.

 

[figmentPez]

Pointless and misdirected protest. Don't take it out on the peon, she's just a cashier, she doesn't set policy. If you don't like that you got your car towed, get involved in the political community.

I'm not even sure the cashier was wrong to refuse to accept pennies. Businesses can refuse to accept bills over $20, so why shouldn't they be able to refuse payment in pennies for large debts?

 

[CrimsonSoul]

Oh go post in the poop thread, Necro

 

[Shegokigo]

I loved every second of that. Laughed hard.

Comedy gold Crimson. Thank you.

 

[CrimsonSoul]

Also figment, according to Section 31 U.S.C. 5103, entitled
"Legal tender," which states: "United States coins and currency
(including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal
reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts,
public charges, taxes, and dues."

I would assume the tow bill to be public charges

 

[Pojodan]

One time, when I was about 14, my sister and I spent about two hours combing every nook and cranky of our house for change and managed to come up with just over $13, about $5 of which was pennies... yes.. 500 pennies. We used this to pay the pizza delivery guy.

Yes, he did look rather annoyed.


My only thought for a good way to do this was if you got bill for a stupid fee that came with a postage paid envelope and pay for it with a box of pennies, since postage paid envelopes work for any weight of parcel, even if it's 50 lbs of pennies.

 

[CrimsonSoul]

My only thought for a good way to do this was if you got bill for a stupid fee that came with a postage paid envelope and pay for it with a box of pennies, since postage paid envelopes work for any weight of parcel, even if it's 50 lbs of pennies.

You know the spam mail you get that sometimes comes with a return postage paid envelope? Fill it to the brim with as many pennies that you can fit into it (count the pennies so you know the ammount) mail it back and then call and complain that you want the money back that you accidentally sent them then wait for the check.

 

[Lally]

Things I can't believe right now:

I can't believe how bored I am, that I would actually watch this whole video.

I can't believe what a dick that guy is. Seriously, how is it anyone's fault but his that he parked somewhere he wasn't supposed to?

I can't believe the dumb girl didn't take the pennies. I would have taken them and counted every single one before letting the guy go. If he wants to waste my time, I'll waste his.

I can't believe they actually sent that many cops out there. What a waste of time, money, and manpower. Good to see my (well, not my, I'm not from Florida) tax dollars hard at work for dicks everywhere.

 

[figmentPez]

Also figment, according to Section 31 U.S.C. 5103, entitled
\"Legal tender,\" which states: \"United States coins and currency
(including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal
reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts,
public charges, taxes, and dues.\"

I would assume the tow bill to be public charges

So? I want to see legal precedent, a court ruling on the matter of payment. Just because pennies can be used to pay for debts, I don't see any reason why companies would be forced to accept payment entirely in pennies just because they legally have worth. In fact, such payment could be viewed as harrasment.

Interesting article at Law.com To sum up: A man tried to pay $1,000 in attorney's fees in pennies. By the end of the trial the judge had fined him $533 and held him in contempt over the matter. The appeals court said "the trial court has vast discretion to maintain control of the proceedings before it, to expedite the proceedings, and to prevent what it considers to be the unnecessary use of its time or resources." The court had the right to expect payment in a reasonable manner, in order to have things run smoothly and avoid waste. I see no reason why it should be different in paying a fine.

 

[CrimsonSoul]

Right, Figment, a lawyer, it wasn't a debt, it was a bill, it wasn't a public charge he hired the guy, it wasn't taxes, and it wasn't dues. The lawyer has the right to refuse payment. But seeing as his car was impounded it was a public charge that he had to pay hence why they were forced to accept the pennies

 

[Hylian]

read the following earlier


http://www.time.com/time/specials/packa ... 65,00.html

In response to the copper coin's declining value, some stores have stopped accepting it as a form of payment. In 2007, a New York City man was so incensed when a Chinese restaurant refused to let him pay for his dinner with 10 pennies (along with other cash) that he persuaded a state senator to draft a bill requiring pennies to be accepted everywhere and at all times. (The bill was not passed.) And in 2009, a number of Concord, Mass., shopkeepers banded together to protest pennies — on Lincoln's 200th birthday, no less.

While federal law states that coins are legal tender, it does not compel anyone to accept them. If a business doesn't want to take pennies — or a $100 bill, for that matter — it has a legal right to refuse them. So why does the government keep the penny around? The answer is simple: sales tax. Sales tax raises the price of an item to an uneven amount, requiring pennies to be given in change. Retailers need pennies to return to customers, banks need pennies to give to the retailers, and the Fed needs pennies to give to the bank. All so you can drop one on the sidewalk on your way out.

 

[CrimsonSoul]

I like pennies, Hylian

-- Sun Aug 02, 2009 2:05 am --

Also the way I feel about it if a business refuses to let me pay with pennies then I should refuse to accept pennies from them and only accept nickels or dimes instead. Also, if they don't accept bills larger than a $20 I don't accept bills larger than a $1

-- Sun Aug 02, 2009 2:06 am --

Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light!

 

[figmentPez]

Right, Figment, a lawyer, it wasn't a debt, it was a bill, it wasn't a public charge he hired the guy, it wasn't taxes, and it wasn't dues. The lawyer has the right to refuse payment. But seeing as his car was impounded it was a public charge that he had to pay hence why they were forced to accept the pennies

A bill is a debt. And I don't see why the towing fee is any different. Both were debts that were owed and had to be paid. In both cases the people trying to pay the debts were intentionally trying to cause a loss of time and effort to the people they owed money to. They were trying to harm those they were legally obligated to pay. I see no reason why they should be allowed to do so under the guise of simply paying a bill. If I had been the cashier, I would have stood my ground, even in the face of the cops. There is no reason to pervert the law in order to allow harassment.

 

[Shegokigo]

Wow, seriously. All of you arguing I have this to say:

Fuck you guys, it's funny. :toocool:

 

[Telephius]

Also the way I feel about it if a business refuses to let me pay with pennies then I should refuse to accept pennies from them and only accept nickels or dimes instead. Also, if they don't accept bills larger than a $20 I don't accept bills larger than a $1

If you refuse to accept pennies that would not mean they would have to give you nickels and dimes and over return on your change. It would just mean if you refused to accept the 2-pennies from them it would mean you would not be getting that 2-3 pennies change. Unless you mean if they are trying to give you 10 pennies instead of two nickels or a dime then yeah I can see your point hehe. The reason places don't accept bills larger then $20 is it makes it harder for the cashier to keep change in his/her float. Rarely is a $50 or $100 bill used to give as change back and inthe places that it could be used on a regular basis people use credit cards, business checks and the like.


Also if you don't like the way a company does business you don't have to give them business likewise if a company does not like you as a customer they don't have to give you a product and can tell you to GTFO. I have worked for a small company where if the owner felt the customer was being a a dickwad he would politely ask them to do business somewhere else.

 

[Shegokigo]

Also if you don't like the way a company does business you don't have to give them business likewise if a company does not like you as a customer they don't have to give you a product and can tell you to GTFO. I have worked for a small company where if the owner felt the customer was being a a dickwad he would politely ask them to do business somewhere else.

Little different when it's a government agency holding your property for cash.

 

[CrimsonSoul]

I completly agree with you, Telep and I apploud your manager for what he did I always told myself I'd do similar things if I were ever the manager of a business.

 

[Telephius]

Also if you don't like the way a company does business you don't have to give them business likewise if a company does not like you as a customer they don't have to give you a product and can tell you to GTFO. I have worked for a small company where if the owner felt the customer was being a a * he would politely ask them to do business somewhere else.

Little different when it's a government agency holding your property for cash.

True hehe.

 

[Heavan]

Shit, as a cashier myself, I'd grab a bag of penny rolls and make the guy slide them to me one at a time until I'd counted and rolled them all up. I'm getting paid to stand around doing whatever, he's wasting a full day on some petty version of a suburban white kids protest against 'the man'. I vote that I win in the end :toocool:

 

[Shegokigo]

Yeah, I got a coin counter machine in our building. No worries.

 

[Reboneer]

I used to work the register at a supermarket, and once had a guy pay for about $55 worth of groceries with a big bucket full of small change. Didn't annoy me though, I thought it was hilarious.

 

[Chad Sexington]

I'm enough of an asshole to do something like that, so I think I'm also willing to find the humour in it if someone did that to me, too.

However, I recently learned that in Alberta, apparently it is against the law to pay for something greater than $1 in only pennies, unless it is a government payment (taxes, fines, etc.). I wonder if the penalty for it is a fine, though, because you could then pay *that* in all pennies.

 

[Heavan]

I'm enough of an asshole to do something like that, so I think I'm also willing to find the humour in it if someone did that to me, too.

However, I recently learned that in Alberta, apparently it is against the law to pay for something greater than $1 in only pennies, unless it is a government payment (taxes, fines, etc.). I wonder if the penalty for it is a fine, though, because you could then pay *that* in all pennies.

Woohoo, Alberta wins again. I guess I'll never need to worry about this then and it turns out the manager at my old job 'wasn't lying when she told me that I didn't need to take a bunch of pennies. You learn and then unlearn something new every day.

 

[checkeredhat]

I'm not sure how it works in the States, but here in Canada cashiers DO have the right to refuse payment with unrolled coin.

-- Sun Aug 02, 2009 6:17 am --

I'm enough of an * to do something like that, so I think I'm also willing to find the humour in it if someone did that to me, too.

However, I recently learned that in Alberta, apparently it is against the law to pay for something greater than $1 in only pennies, unless it is a government payment (taxes, fines, etc.). I wonder if the penalty for it is a fine, though, because you could then pay *that* in all pennies.

Woohoo, Alberta wins again. I guess I'll never need to worry about this then and it turns out the manager at my old job 'wasn't lying when she told me that I didn't need to take a bunch of pennies. You learn and then unlearn something new every day.

^Yeah, that's exactly what I was trained when I was a cashier at Shoppers Drug Mart, and that's here in Ontario.

 

[Steve]

Also if you don't like the way a company does business you don't have to give them business likewise if a company does not like you as a customer they don't have to give you a product and can tell you to GTFO. I have worked for a small company where if the owner felt the customer was being a a * he would politely ask them to do business somewhere else.

Little different when it's a government agency holding your property for cash.

My dad had an old pickup truck that was given to him by his dad. 1960 something and he took it to town one day and it was stolen. He filed a police report and was basically told he should just kiss it goodbye. A few months later he got a call from the local tow/storage company saying they had his truck. Apparently the police found it a week later and had it towed/impounded. So a few months later dad gets a call saying "we've got your truck and it will cost you x amount of money for storing and towing fees." I don't remember the actual amount but it was more than the truck was worth. Then they said he needed to pay it because charges would keep building up. Or he could just bring down the title to the truck and give it to them and they'd be square which is what he did. So, yeah, kudos to that guy. I hate towing companies, too. And working in the transportation industry years ago I can tell you that the tow companies that work for the city are scum.

And don't feel sorry for that cashier. My experience in dealing with cashiers at tow companies I'm sure she's been a bitch to many many people. So count your f'n pennies and shut the f up. Although if I was in her position I would have demaned he slide them under the counter one at a time while I counted then when I got to about 7000 I'd lose count and have him start again. Do this a couple of times while the line starts to build behind him let them take their wrath out on him.

 

[figmentPez]

I see how this could be seen as "sticking it to the man" but how far would you take your opinion that pennies must be accepted as legal tender if someone were trying to pay you with them? If were awarded a $60,000 settlement in a court case, and some rich bastard decided that if had to pay you off, he'd pay you in pennies, would you just say "it's the law, I have to accept them," if he plopped down 32,000 pounds of pennies in your driveway?


"You load sixteen tons, what do you get? Another day older and deeper in debt..."

 

[Tinwhistler]

Pointless and misdirected protest. Don't take it out on the peon, she's just a cashier, she doesn't set policy. If you don't like that you got your car towed, get involved in the political community.

I'm not even sure the cashier was wrong to refuse to accept pennies. Businesses can refuse to accept bills over $20, so why shouldn't they be able to refuse payment in pennies for large debts?

Businesses can refuse $20.00, because that happens BEFORE a transaction occurs. You don't owe them the money. You simply want to give it to them in exchange for something they have. They can refuse to sell to you under any circumstance, including paying with $100 bills.

However, businesses cannot refuse cash for DEBTS, no matter what denomination, unless you sign away your right to pay in cash via contract (as in many apartment leases).

The guy who was ordered to pay costs for paying a legal judgement in pennies wasn't so ordered for paying in pennies, but for wasting the lawyer's time. The court agreed with the lawyer, and ordered him to pay for the wasted time.
http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1120208723965

At the hearing on the motion, Powell maintained that the $1,000 in unrolled pennies was legal tender timely delivered and sufficient to satisfy the court's order.

Although Ray refused to hold Powell in contempt, he ordered Powell to pay for Tarlton's time, court costs and redemption fee.

\"One of the consequences of your chicanery is to incur the expenses associated with it,\" said the judge. \"This time it's $533.\" To exclude the possibility that Powell might again ante up in pennies, the judge specifically directed that Powell pay by cashier's check, money order or \"folding money.\"

So, in other words, the lawyer HAD to take the pennies, but was allowed to bill for the hassle it cost him. Your article actually holds up the argument that paying in pennies is perfectly legitimate and cannot be refused, figmentPez. Basically the judge said "yeah, you're allowed to pay in pennies, but the lawyer is allowed to bill you for the costs you made him incur by doing so."


As further support, please see
http://gothamist.com/2007/05/04/incentsed_over.php

be familiar with the U.S. Treasury's policy regarding payment and pennies. It states that while pennies are legal tender as payment for a contractual debt or payment to a government organization, private merchants are free to determine whatever legal tender they do and do not want to accept.

The specific Treasury policy is here:
http://www.ustreas.gov/education/faq/cu ... nder.shtml

The pertinent portion of law that applies to your question is the Coinage Act of 1965, specifically Section 31 U.S.C. 5103, entitled \"Legal tender,\" which states: \"United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues.\"

This statute means that all United States money as identified above are a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor. There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person or an organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether or not to accept cash unless there is a State law which says otherwise. For example, a bus line may prohibit payment of fares in pennies or dollar bills. In addition, movie theaters, convenience stores and gas stations may refuse to accept large denomination currency (usually notes above $20) as a matter of policy.

The tow yard was a creditor. They impounded his car and refused to return it unless he paid a fee. When he parked on their lot, he accepted the terms that if he parked out of variance with their rules, he would be towed. That's a contract, making the $88.00 a contractual debt. Without that implied contract, the situation would be one of auto-theft instead of a legal impounding.

They have to take the pennies. If they want to bill the guy for the expense of taking them, that's a different matter.

 

[Espy]

Here's a fun fact: Have you ever been to a coffee shop or gas station where they won't let you use a credit card if you don't by 5 bucks worth of stuff?
Yeah... they can't do that.
It violates the contract they sign with the credit cart company. Now you might not be able to stop them, I guess you could call your credit card company and tell them a business won't accept your VISA card and they will probably go after them, but it's just a little scam by these places to get you to buy more and for them to avoid paying the fee for using credit cards.

 

[Bowielee]

I think it was a funny "protest" but the fact that they wasted police time is extremely irksome to me.

 

[Rubicon]

Pointless and misdirected protest. Don't take it out on the peon, she's just a cashier, she doesn't set policy. If you don't like that you got your car towed, get involved in the political community.

I'm not even sure the cashier was wrong to refuse to accept pennies. Businesses can refuse to accept bills over $20, so why shouldn't they be able to refuse payment in pennies for large debts?

Because its legal tender.

If businesses don't want to take small amounts as such, then they should take it up with the government to not make it a legal tender.

I can tell you many times, I've needed just a couple dollars of gas for the car and I'm out of cash, I'll dig up a few dollars of pennies to pay for it. Yea not 88 dollars worth but hey..

I have also had people refuse to take $2 bills. They are legal tender, people claim its fake or monopoly money.

 

[Bowielee]

Pointless and misdirected protest. Don't take it out on the peon, she's just a cashier, she doesn't set policy. If you don't like that you got your car towed, get involved in the political community.

I'm not even sure the cashier was wrong to refuse to accept pennies. Businesses can refuse to accept bills over $20, so why shouldn't they be able to refuse payment in pennies for large debts?

Because its legal tender.

If businesses don't want to take small amounts as such, then they should take it up with the government to not make it a legal tender.

I can tell you many times, I've needed just a couple dollars of gas for the car and I'm out of cash, I'll dig up a few dollars of pennies to pay for it. Yea not 88 dollars worth but hey..

I have also had people refuse to take $2 bills. They are legal tender, people claim its fake or monopoly money.

If they have it posted that they will not accept certain types of tender, they have the right to refuse that tender. For example, many gas stations/convenience stores refuse to take 100.00 bills. They have it posted, so it is within their right to refuse it.

 

[Rubicon]

If they have it posted that they will not accept certain types of tender, they have the right to refuse that tender. For example, many gas stations/convenience stores refuse to take 100.00 bills. They have it posted, so it is within their right to refuse it.

Correct.

This car towing place had no sign whatsoever saying they wouldn't accept pennies or they had to be rolled. The lady simply didn't want to deal with almost 9000 pennies.

 

[Espy]

No matter if it was funny or not, this guy took it out on the wrong person (not to mention HE got his car towed, so it was his fault anyway), she didn't tow his car.
But I guess if it's funny, go ahead, be an asshole.

 

[CynicismKills]

Here's a fun fact: Have you ever been to a coffee shop or gas station where they won't let you use a credit card if you don't by 5 bucks worth of stuff?
Yeah... they can't do that.
It violates the contract they sign with the credit cart company. Now you might not be able to stop them, I guess you could call your credit card company and tell them a business won't accept your VISA card and they will probably go after them, but it's just a little scam by these places to get you to buy more and for them to avoid paying the fee for using credit cards.

Yeah, a lot of the local businesses near me do this, and it's fucking annoying. I have a debit card and credit card so I can avoid carrying cash, damnit.