P
Philosopher B.
Plagiarism is for losers. And communists.
Rant VI: Now Drama Free
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I agree. You should be sympathizing with me instead.
Cajungal
Staff member
I agree. You should be sympathizing with me instead.
[/QUOTE]I do. It must be disheartening to see people put so much energy into figuring out how to get by with as little as possible.
And then deny it. :mad2:
Yeah. Bloody communists...
North_Ranger
Staff member
Naaaaah... The problem with communism isn't so much plagiarism. It's spending R&D money on batshit crazy projects, such as the flying tank:
I live infront of garage. The grage sometimes closes early if theres not a lot to do. Also, we are near two major roadways so all sorts of people just stop by at all hours to try and get their flat tire replaced.
Well, I'm in my living room with my baby just feeding him a snack when a woman, the self important looking type, pulls behind my house to the garage, gets out and tries to open the grage door. No one is there. She pound on the garage door, looking angrily at er car. Still nothing. She screams so loudly I can hear her in the house.
She gets back in her car, slamming the door. Its then I notice the child sitting in the passenger sear. 5 or six years old? He's not supposed to be there, I know that. He's quite small. The next instant my blood is riunning cold as this woman proceeds to scream at the child and start laying into him. BAM, BAM, BAM.
She's there for a few minutes. I stare the entire time. I can't explain how blank my brain went. She finally peels out.
I'm filled with rage and it isn 't even totally directed at this bitch. I'm mad at me. Beyond mad. I didn't take down a license plate number. I did nothing. I should have went out there and did SOMETHING. Instead all I'm doing is crying.
I was that kid at one point! I talk all the time about what I would do if I ever met my abuser again or if I saw it happening to someone else..but Ididn't do anything.
I haven't changed at all. I'm not strobger or braver.
I'm...ugh.
Well, I'm in my living room with my baby just feeding him a snack when a woman, the self important looking type, pulls behind my house to the garage, gets out and tries to open the grage door. No one is there. She pound on the garage door, looking angrily at er car. Still nothing. She screams so loudly I can hear her in the house.
She gets back in her car, slamming the door. Its then I notice the child sitting in the passenger sear. 5 or six years old? He's not supposed to be there, I know that. He's quite small. The next instant my blood is riunning cold as this woman proceeds to scream at the child and start laying into him. BAM, BAM, BAM.
She's there for a few minutes. I stare the entire time. I can't explain how blank my brain went. She finally peels out.
I'm filled with rage and it isn 't even totally directed at this bitch. I'm mad at me. Beyond mad. I didn't take down a license plate number. I did nothing. I should have went out there and did SOMETHING. Instead all I'm doing is crying.
I was that kid at one point! I talk all the time about what I would do if I ever met my abuser again or if I saw it happening to someone else..but Ididn't do anything.
I haven't changed at all. I'm not strobger or braver.
I'm...ugh.
North_Ranger
Staff member
Damn, who still has the captured picture series?
BOOMSKI!
---------- Post added at 11:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:54 PM ----------
Jaysus Christ... LittleSin, I don't think you have to be so hard on yourself. Most people would freeze in shock of something like that. Do you think there's crime involved (except the fact that the bitch went and walloped the boy, damn her for that!)? If you think there is, you might want to contact somebody and tell what you saw. Even if you didn't get the license plate.
People who beat little children... God, those people really make me angry.
Without a tag, there would be very little police could do. What I would advise is getting into contact with the garage, seeing if anyone there recognizes the woman/car by description. If they do, THEN see about contacting police and following up that way.
And don't be so hard on yourself. I know you have reasons that you feel mitigate you being down on yourself, but all you're doing is punishing yourself unnecessarily. Learn from the incident, go through "what if" situations in your mind.
You can prepare yourself in case of anything similar happening again. Descriptions. Tags. DIRECTION OF TRAVEL. Behaviors of either child or parent(?) - did parent appear to be under the influence of something. These are things that help us when y'all report them. Practice in your mind, and next time (regrettably, there will probably be another time you witness something like this) you will be in the right place in your mind to do something to help.
And don't be so hard on yourself. I know you have reasons that you feel mitigate you being down on yourself, but all you're doing is punishing yourself unnecessarily. Learn from the incident, go through "what if" situations in your mind.
You can prepare yourself in case of anything similar happening again. Descriptions. Tags. DIRECTION OF TRAVEL. Behaviors of either child or parent(?) - did parent appear to be under the influence of something. These are things that help us when y'all report them. Practice in your mind, and next time (regrettably, there will probably be another time you witness something like this) you will be in the right place in your mind to do something to help.
I'm tired. Not sleep-tired, just...tired.
Well, I'm laid up today, and I have no idea why. Got some frozen peas wrapped around my foot. 
Seej: That's what you get when you kick too much ass.
In your SLEEP, even!
In your SLEEP, even!
Cajungal
Staff member
:laugh: I do kick a little ass...
But really, I think the problem is this: I've been sick for a week and unable to walk/jog. Yesterday and this morning I might have overdone it and/or pushed the incline too high on the treadmill. It's just a weird pinchy, achey feeling right under my ankle bone and on the outside of my left foot. Weird.
Sounds about right for that... my feet do the same thing whenever I slack off my running like now...
Getting drunk while reading comics. Yet another night at the apartment alone, going through beer like it's water.
Sometimes I wonder if I have a problem.
Sometimes I wonder if I have a problem.
A friend of mine is no longer speaking to me. She's enrolled in the Odyssey Writing Workshop, which is a legitimate writer's workshop for SF authors. 6 weeks in New Hampshire, learning from known authors like Ben Bova and Elizabeth Moon and being in a tremendously concentrated creative environment. So, yes, I'm a bit envious. But that isn't the issue. She was telling me about the second story she sent in to the workshop as a sample, and it's a trite fairy tale. Direct transcript:
Carrie: I still have to come up with a new idea for my next story. The one I just sent out was about a scibe. His Baron's daughter was dying and needed some dragon's blood to cure her, so the Baron sent out all of the able-bodied, eligible men who had any rank whatsoever. So the scirbe, Will, goes out, finds a dragon who is a collector of knowledge and very friendly and she gives him her blood of her own free will after he answered many questions about humans. Once he returned to the estate, the Baron was reluctant to have a mere scribe marry his daughter and only heir, so he charges Will to perform three heroic tasks. WIll didn't want to marry the girl anyway, and he definitely didn't want to ne the next baron, so he respectfully declines and asks permission to go serve as a scribe to a "great lady." The Baron is relieved to get out of his promise so easily, so he agrees.
me: The great lady is the dragon.
2:53 PM Carrie: That's the general gist of it. I didn't have time to edit it properly since I only started writing it last week, and it is somewhat predictable, but at least it will show my writing style, where I am strong, and where I need more work,
And yes, the great lady is the dragon. Will will be much happier with her, anyway. She has a cavern full of scrolls and books, and he loves to read.
2:54 PM me: Convenient.
---------- Post added at 05:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:07 PM ----------
(continued)
2:55 PM What needs does Will fulfill for the dragon?
2:56 PM Carrie: He can answer any questions she may have about humans, plus he can read the books and scrolls to her since they're too small for her to handle or read.
me: How did she get them?
2:57 PM laugh That'd be a funny thing to include. Will asking that, the dragon saying, "Oh, they came with the cave."
2:58 PM But that's just my sense of humor.
Carrie: No, she rescued them, most from burning, some from sinking ships.
Most of what she has is information people wanted to supress, but I don't actually mention that in the story.
2:59 PM Will will be in for a very enlightening experience.
Now, at this point, I ask her why this friendly dragon collects suppressed knowledge that she can't handle or understand, and was basically told "that's what she does, why do you need a reason?" She got pissed that I questioned this premise, and said "This conversation is over" then blocked me. I've been friends with her since 1997, but apparently this was too much.
Thing is I don't think it's a bad idea per say, I just think there needs to be a reason for it. "Her lair was once a great library"; "She used to live among an ancient civilization that has disappeared and tries to preserve their legacy"; "Dragons are Guardians of ideals, she is the Guardian of Knowledge" - all perfectly workable ideas that make this dragon more than just a provider for the scribe.
Carrie: I still have to come up with a new idea for my next story. The one I just sent out was about a scibe. His Baron's daughter was dying and needed some dragon's blood to cure her, so the Baron sent out all of the able-bodied, eligible men who had any rank whatsoever. So the scirbe, Will, goes out, finds a dragon who is a collector of knowledge and very friendly and she gives him her blood of her own free will after he answered many questions about humans. Once he returned to the estate, the Baron was reluctant to have a mere scribe marry his daughter and only heir, so he charges Will to perform three heroic tasks. WIll didn't want to marry the girl anyway, and he definitely didn't want to ne the next baron, so he respectfully declines and asks permission to go serve as a scribe to a "great lady." The Baron is relieved to get out of his promise so easily, so he agrees.
me: The great lady is the dragon.
2:53 PM Carrie: That's the general gist of it. I didn't have time to edit it properly since I only started writing it last week, and it is somewhat predictable, but at least it will show my writing style, where I am strong, and where I need more work,
And yes, the great lady is the dragon. Will will be much happier with her, anyway. She has a cavern full of scrolls and books, and he loves to read.
2:54 PM me: Convenient.
---------- Post added at 05:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:07 PM ----------
(continued)
2:55 PM What needs does Will fulfill for the dragon?
2:56 PM Carrie: He can answer any questions she may have about humans, plus he can read the books and scrolls to her since they're too small for her to handle or read.
me: How did she get them?
2:57 PM laugh That'd be a funny thing to include. Will asking that, the dragon saying, "Oh, they came with the cave."
2:58 PM But that's just my sense of humor.
Carrie: No, she rescued them, most from burning, some from sinking ships.
Most of what she has is information people wanted to supress, but I don't actually mention that in the story.
2:59 PM Will will be in for a very enlightening experience.
Now, at this point, I ask her why this friendly dragon collects suppressed knowledge that she can't handle or understand, and was basically told "that's what she does, why do you need a reason?" She got pissed that I questioned this premise, and said "This conversation is over" then blocked me. I've been friends with her since 1997, but apparently this was too much.
Thing is I don't think it's a bad idea per say, I just think there needs to be a reason for it. "Her lair was once a great library"; "She used to live among an ancient civilization that has disappeared and tries to preserve their legacy"; "Dragons are Guardians of ideals, she is the Guardian of Knowledge" - all perfectly workable ideas that make this dragon more than just a provider for the scribe.
W
Wasabi Poptart
I'm sorry your friend can't handle constructive criticism. I have to admit, it doesn't make sense that the dragon can't read the books because they are too small for her to handle, but yet she rescued them from burning or sinking ships.
Yeah, pretty much I just wanted that idea explained. And for that matter, why human knowledge would matter to a Dragon. "Real life doesn't have to make sense. Fiction does."
And the funny thing is, the dragon having all that stuff is just some frosting for Will to enjoy, which is completely unnecessary and could be cut from the story. Wouldn't it make more sense for him to be writing new things, thus creating such a place full of scrolls, etc?
Precisely - what if the Dragon knew she was dying, and needed someone to record her stories, all the things she'd seen over the millenia. A scribe to preserve her memories once she was gone. I think you could get a better than fair young adult novel series out of that.
M
makare
I don't know it makes sense to me. The dragon collects the works because she desires the knowledge and values them. However, because of her physical nature she is always cut off from what she desires. Will is the bridge between her physical self and her desire which is how he fulfills the dragon.
But maybe I'm just reading it wrong.
But maybe I'm just reading it wrong.
Yeah, but from the sound of the conversation, she espoused this collection as for Will's benefit, and didn't seem to have made the connection in her own work. It sounds like she just threw the elements together and called it a story without sitting down and thinking it through, a.k.a. first draft. And one should not get excited or ask for criticism over first draft material.
Probably better than she took it from you. Strangers' compliments mean more than people close, but their "insults" hurt less, and she probably took it as an insult.
M
makare
I just don't see why the origin of the books is that big of a deal. It makes sense to me that the dragon would just want to collect the books because they are books. There doesn't need to be anything beyond that.
I agree that your angle works, but it doesn't sound like Null's friend had thought of it or was aware of it, and that's the problem. Like he gave examples, it's an easy situation to write a reason for, but she kept lopping things on. I have a feeling that "rescue from burning ships" bit was something she made up as he was asking.
As for why it matters--if you can ask "why" or "how" and the writer doesn't know, it's a story weakness. If she's in a professional workshop for this stuff, she needs to learn to eliminate weaknesses from the story once made aware. And her class will likely tell her the same--make it work or drop it. It may not matter to you personally as a reader, but from a writing standpoint, it should. She should know the answer, even if it's never mentioned in her story. "It just does" is not a reason for anything. Null probably wanted to help her, because if this were to come up from an editor, "it just does" or "just because" is a quick road to a rejection.
As for why it matters--if you can ask "why" or "how" and the writer doesn't know, it's a story weakness. If she's in a professional workshop for this stuff, she needs to learn to eliminate weaknesses from the story once made aware. And her class will likely tell her the same--make it work or drop it. It may not matter to you personally as a reader, but from a writing standpoint, it should. She should know the answer, even if it's never mentioned in her story. "It just does" is not a reason for anything. Null probably wanted to help her, because if this were to come up from an editor, "it just does" or "just because" is a quick road to a rejection.
North_Ranger
Staff member
... And now I started wondering how the hell does Wan Shi Tong read the books in his library.
So yes, the question is valid. Otherwise sounds like a decent premise to me, BTW.
So yes, the question is valid. Otherwise sounds like a decent premise to me, BTW.
M
makare
But he asked and she had an answer. Rescuing books makes sense. As a writer you don't need to know the why of everything as you write as long as you can make it work for you over all.
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