Shawnacy's 4E D&D Game!
Then no more bitching, right? :uhhuh:doomdragon6 said:
Shawnacy's 4E D&D Game! (Thread allowed 30 pages)
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doomdragon6
Staff member
Shawnacy's 4E D&D Game!
Gah! I really wish I could express my thoughts without it being "bitching."
I guess my only real point is that we need to come up with ideas that uses everyone's skills together.
Granted, I'm an exploitationist, so I look towards Errik's abilities that have a lot of potential for deception.
Bah, I'm done with this. *waits 'til Thursday*
Gah! I really wish I could express my thoughts without it being "bitching."
I guess my only real point is that we need to come up with ideas that uses everyone's skills together.
Granted, I'm an exploitationist, so I look towards Errik's abilities that have a lot of potential for deception.
Bah, I'm done with this. *waits 'til Thursday*
doomdragon6
Staff member
Shawnacy's 4E D&D Game!
Not necessarily. I do like the damage output. I-WAIT A MINUTE
*waits 'til Thursday* Clever devil.
Not necessarily. I do like the damage output. I-WAIT A MINUTE
*waits 'til Thursday* Clever devil.
Shawnacy's 4E D&D Game!
So I suggest not changing. If you feel you are missing something you can always talk to me. As I'm constantly reworking the adventure as you guys make decisions I can easily put in story elements that will help you enjoy your character more. If you want to be able to use your shape changing abilities more often than I will start working more opportunities into the story to do so.doomdragon6 said:Well, I wouldn't change anyway. But I'm a magic-caster through and through. So that narrows it to like 5-6 classes. And going through those, Wizard and Sorceror are the only ones I care about.
I really don't want to change.
Shawnacy's 4E D&D Game!
Like you said before.
If only this dilemma was in-character, then Errik could tease Serin about how she's not a wizard.
"Bet you'd like to have some of these Burning Hands, eh? Eh? Eh?" *fwoosh!*
Like you said before.
If only this dilemma was in-character, then Errik could tease Serin about how she's not a wizard.
"Bet you'd like to have some of these Burning Hands, eh? Eh? Eh?" *fwoosh!*
doomdragon6
Staff member
Shawnacy's 4E D&D Game!
Well I'm not gonna say "omg maek me teh star with shapechange!" But I WILL say, that is kind of the only thing she has beyond being able to make people hurt in combat.
(And that I love it. Hell, just her being a scout in the caves was fun enough for me.)
Also, I could see Serin and Errik gettig competitive over who has the better magic. Maybe when I'm back in no-laggy-land (July 18th, people!) I can finally get some better RP going. As it stands, I'm just trying not to interrupt you people.
Well I'm not gonna say "omg maek me teh star with shapechange!" But I WILL say, that is kind of the only thing she has beyond being able to make people hurt in combat.
(And that I love it. Hell, just her being a scout in the caves was fun enough for me.)Also, I could see Serin and Errik gettig competitive over who has the better magic. Maybe when I'm back in no-laggy-land (July 18th, people!) I can finally get some better RP going. As it stands, I'm just trying not to interrupt you people.
Shawnacy's 4E D&D Game!
You can type too though. I know we need to bring that to Shawnacy's attention with Gusto after his parents go to bed, but that's only because he's got a lot of stuff to manage. The rest of us are reading most of the time.
You can type too though. I know we need to bring that to Shawnacy's attention with Gusto after his parents go to bed, but that's only because he's got a lot of stuff to manage. The rest of us are reading most of the time.
doomdragon6
Staff member
Shawnacy's 4E D&D Game!
I at least appreciate you guys being understanding with it.
But yeah, come July 18th I'm moving into my apartment for college and'll have access to internet that doesn't require bouncing back and forth between a satellite.
I at least appreciate you guys being understanding with it.
But yeah, come July 18th I'm moving into my apartment for college and'll have access to internet that doesn't require bouncing back and forth between a satellite.
Shawnacy's 4E D&D Game!
(WARINING READ THIS DISCLAIMER: THIS IS NOT ME BEING OFFENDED. THIS IS ME DISCUSSING A POINT. REPEAT: I AM NOT OFFENDED.)
...well, i feel obligated to argue about that. i've haven't been seeking combat more than you guys, it just finds me; i rped just as much as you guys in that last session.
just because Kratash doesn't see the need to talk his way out of everything doesnt mean i'm some sort of power gamer who's only in it for the dice rolling.
and about the "deathwish" thing well... i'm still alive. so there.
first, because it is apparently necessary,doomdragon6 said:Hack-and-Slashers: Love combat and love dealing as much damage as possible in those combats. The bigger the fight, the better. Often play fighters. Don't care for adventures with lots of talking and role-play. I feel I'm obligated to put Kratash in this category.
(WARINING READ THIS DISCLAIMER: THIS IS NOT ME BEING OFFENDED. THIS IS ME DISCUSSING A POINT. REPEAT: I AM NOT OFFENDED.)
...well, i feel obligated to argue about that. i've haven't been seeking combat more than you guys, it just finds me; i rped just as much as you guys in that last session.
just because Kratash doesn't see the need to talk his way out of everything doesnt mean i'm some sort of power gamer who's only in it for the dice rolling.
and about the "deathwish" thing well... i'm still alive. so there.
Shawnacy's 4E D&D Game!
Gurpel isn't necessarily a hack n' slasher, but Kratash most definitely is. :uhhuh:
Also true.Gurpel said:first, because it is apparently necessary,doomdragon6 said:Hack-and-Slashers: Love combat and love dealing as much damage as possible in those combats. The bigger the fight, the better. Often play fighters. Don't care for adventures with lots of talking and role-play. I feel I'm obligated to put Kratash in this category.
(WARINING READ THIS DISCLAIMER: THIS IS NOT ME BEING OFFENDED. THIS IS ME DISCUSSING A POINT. REPEAT: I AM NOT OFFENDED.)
...well, i feel obligated to argue about that. i've haven't been seeking combat more than you guys, it just finds me; i rped just as much as you guys in that last session.
just because Kratash doesn't see the need to talk his way out of everything doesnt mean i'm some sort of power gamer who's only in it for the dice rolling.
and about the "deathwish" thing well... i'm still alive. so there.
Gurpel isn't necessarily a hack n' slasher, but Kratash most definitely is. :uhhuh:
doomdragon6
Staff member
I just thought. We still have those Vicejaw scales. Wonder if they'll come in handy ever. Or might be worth something. Who knows, maybe someone would pay good money for the scales of a ice/shadow creature from another plane capable of invisibility?
Kratash is the best hack and slasher in this group! Have you seen that mo-fo's dice rolls? He has the best initiative EVER. Omg. Nothing hacks things to pieces then slashes the chunks like Kratash. :aaahhh:
Kratash pwns those noobs with his hack and slash. He walshed their flak hard.
doomdragon6
Staff member
Kratash is a pretty cool guy. eh slashes the mobs and doesn't afraid of anybody.
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I thought of something while thumbing through the D&D for Dummies again (looking for the Player Types made me curious againz) and reading the "Advanced Tactics" made me realize why I generally find the "slow" and "immobilization" spells nigh useless.
I always thought they were dumb because your melee allies are going to want to get to them as quickly as possible to decimate them. If you slow or immobilize, you're making your melee party move farther (because the enemy melee people don't move as far on their turn) and putting them closer to the enemy's starting point, allowing for a potential to be surrounded.
Alternatively, the melee characters are all already locked in combat, so slowing/immobilizing doesn't really do much, because they're probably not going anywhere anyway.
Using them on ranged attackers is also obviously nigh useless.
Granted, there are times when it's helpful (Oh shit, the big baddy's comin' at us! Slow him while we take care of the little guys!), but it's pretty rare.
Same goes with pushes/pulls. (Slides are useful to me, though.) A lot of my attacks require me to push a target, and oftentimes pushing the target will push them out of a flank or out of a future burst attack. (And hell, when I roll a natural 1 on an attack, I'm required to push all creatures within 5 squares of me one space. As I'm rarely surrounded by enemies, that usually just fucks my party members.) And while, yes, a push could result in shoving an enemy into a fire or off of a cliff, it's usually either useless or disadvantageous.
Furthermore, a lot of dailies are ongoing damage with a save to end it. With a 50% chance to end each turn, chances are the effect will be over by 2 rounds, if not the first.
So end the end, it usually just makes sense to choose the power that does the most damage. And while it works, it makes me wonder what kinds of tacctics we might be missing out on.
What are your thoughts on effects of powers like this? Sure we could try to use these tactics, but in the end, just doing as much damage as possible ends up being more effective.
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I thought of something while thumbing through the D&D for Dummies again (looking for the Player Types made me curious againz) and reading the "Advanced Tactics" made me realize why I generally find the "slow" and "immobilization" spells nigh useless.
I always thought they were dumb because your melee allies are going to want to get to them as quickly as possible to decimate them. If you slow or immobilize, you're making your melee party move farther (because the enemy melee people don't move as far on their turn) and putting them closer to the enemy's starting point, allowing for a potential to be surrounded.
Alternatively, the melee characters are all already locked in combat, so slowing/immobilizing doesn't really do much, because they're probably not going anywhere anyway.
Using them on ranged attackers is also obviously nigh useless.
Granted, there are times when it's helpful (Oh shit, the big baddy's comin' at us! Slow him while we take care of the little guys!), but it's pretty rare.
Same goes with pushes/pulls. (Slides are useful to me, though.) A lot of my attacks require me to push a target, and oftentimes pushing the target will push them out of a flank or out of a future burst attack. (And hell, when I roll a natural 1 on an attack, I'm required to push all creatures within 5 squares of me one space. As I'm rarely surrounded by enemies, that usually just fucks my party members.) And while, yes, a push could result in shoving an enemy into a fire or off of a cliff, it's usually either useless or disadvantageous.
Furthermore, a lot of dailies are ongoing damage with a save to end it. With a 50% chance to end each turn, chances are the effect will be over by 2 rounds, if not the first.
So end the end, it usually just makes sense to choose the power that does the most damage. And while it works, it makes me wonder what kinds of tacctics we might be missing out on.
What are your thoughts on effects of powers like this? Sure we could try to use these tactics, but in the end, just doing as much damage as possible ends up being more effective.
You'd probably want to slow/immobilize something if we're fighting little guys and something big and hard to kill is coming our way that we can't handle all at once. Then you'd want to break the fight down. Or hell, if it was something we can't even beat and we just need to get away without Shawn giving us an easy out and saying "to speed this up, you guys escape." It's really a matter of what situations we get into.
doomdragon6
Staff member
Saying it's only 15 hours away makes the game seem very close, but it makes me angry cuz I still need to sleep and I won't be tired for several hours.
Damn you circadian cycle!!!
Damn you circadian cycle!!!
doomdragon6
Staff member
I was thinking. Remember how the Skeleton Soldier (or whatever it was-- the strongest skeleton in the church) had an extremely high AC?
While it may not have been high enough to warrant such a tactic, I wanted to bring to everyone's attention the "Aid Another" ability.
Aid Another
You use your action to aid another character. You can
aid an ally’s attack roll against one enemy or grant an
ally a bonus against an enemy’s next attack. You can
also use this action to aid someone else’s skill check or
ability check.
AID ANOTHER: STANDARD ACTIOAID ANOTHER: STANDARD ACTION
? Attack Roll: Choose a target within your melee
reach and make a melee basic attack vs. AC 10. If
you succeed, deal no damage, but choose one ally.
That ally gets a +2 bonus to his or her next attack
roll against the target or to all defenses against the
target’s next attack. This bonus ends if not used by
the end of your next turn.
? Skill or Ability Check: You can instead aid a skill
check or an ability check made by an adjacent ally.
Make a DC 10 skill check or ability check. If you succeed,
you give a +2 bonus to your ally’s next check
using the same skill or ability. This bonus ends if not
used by the end of the ally’s next turn.
From my understanding, this bonus stacks.
So if we were dealing with an enemy that had a very high defense, 2 or 3 of us could aid our highest damage dealer and give that person a +4 or +6 to attack. In addition to their natural bonuses, their chance is almost guaranteed.
Also, the bonuses don't have to go to an ally adjacent to you-- the bonus could go to a ranged attacker such as Adia, Errik, or Serin.
Not only that, but if you're aiding a melee attacker, it's very easy to also flank, granting combat advantage. So not only are you granting your +2 bonus, the assisted ally also has the +2 from combat advantage. So two assisters could grant a total of +6 to attack.
This, obviously, is a bit of a gamble. You could easily score a 20 on that assist and miss out on a crit. But like I said, it's for those way up on defense.
-----------------
An extra note:
I don't know if this is common knowledge or not, but I thought it was interesting and not immediately obvious when I found it.
A natural 20 is not always a critical strike. It's only a critical if you beat the enemy's defense. Otherwise, it just counts as a normal hit.
Example: An enemy has an AC of 22. You have a bonus of +3 to attack. You roll a natural 20, plus your 3. You have beaten the enemy's defense of 22 with a 23, thus resulting in a critical strike and max damage.
However, if the enemy has an AC of 24 and you roll natural 20, plus your 3, this does not beat the enemy's AC. As such, the natural 20 grants you an automatic hit, but it is not a critical strike. You roll damage as normal.
-----------------
Another thing that popped into my head:
What's the general conensus on letting the Players know an enemy's HP total? From reading various posts from various DMs, they mention fudging HP totals on enemies to make battles easier or more difficult. Which made me realize that we are able to see the enemies' HP in our game. Two things come to mind-- This disallows any DM fudging (whether or not he'd want to do that), and it puts a focus back on numbers.
I'm just going to use Dave's game as an example-- after a significant hit (making bloodied, close to death, etc) he'll point out that the monster is very bloody, doesn't look happy, "on his last leg", etc. When it comes to undead, he'll mention how there's barely anything hanging on when they're near destruction. If we're not sure, we can ask how hurt each enemy looks on our turn.
But I distinctly remember in our Goblin Camp battle deciding who to attack based on HP. (The goblin had 7 HP left and I mentioned that no matter what, my damage minimum ensured that if I hit, I'd kill it.) This obviously makes us more efficent in determining stuff like that, but maybe we shouldn't know things like that.
I'm not pushing for one method or the other, I'm asking what you guys think. (This may actually fit better under the DM talk thread.)
While it may not have been high enough to warrant such a tactic, I wanted to bring to everyone's attention the "Aid Another" ability.
Aid Another
You use your action to aid another character. You can
aid an ally’s attack roll against one enemy or grant an
ally a bonus against an enemy’s next attack. You can
also use this action to aid someone else’s skill check or
ability check.
AID ANOTHER: STANDARD ACTIOAID ANOTHER: STANDARD ACTION
? Attack Roll: Choose a target within your melee
reach and make a melee basic attack vs. AC 10. If
you succeed, deal no damage, but choose one ally.
That ally gets a +2 bonus to his or her next attack
roll against the target or to all defenses against the
target’s next attack. This bonus ends if not used by
the end of your next turn.
? Skill or Ability Check: You can instead aid a skill
check or an ability check made by an adjacent ally.
Make a DC 10 skill check or ability check. If you succeed,
you give a +2 bonus to your ally’s next check
using the same skill or ability. This bonus ends if not
used by the end of the ally’s next turn.
From my understanding, this bonus stacks.
So if we were dealing with an enemy that had a very high defense, 2 or 3 of us could aid our highest damage dealer and give that person a +4 or +6 to attack. In addition to their natural bonuses, their chance is almost guaranteed.
Also, the bonuses don't have to go to an ally adjacent to you-- the bonus could go to a ranged attacker such as Adia, Errik, or Serin.
Not only that, but if you're aiding a melee attacker, it's very easy to also flank, granting combat advantage. So not only are you granting your +2 bonus, the assisted ally also has the +2 from combat advantage. So two assisters could grant a total of +6 to attack.
This, obviously, is a bit of a gamble. You could easily score a 20 on that assist and miss out on a crit. But like I said, it's for those way up on defense.
-----------------
An extra note:
I don't know if this is common knowledge or not, but I thought it was interesting and not immediately obvious when I found it.
A natural 20 is not always a critical strike. It's only a critical if you beat the enemy's defense. Otherwise, it just counts as a normal hit.
Example: An enemy has an AC of 22. You have a bonus of +3 to attack. You roll a natural 20, plus your 3. You have beaten the enemy's defense of 22 with a 23, thus resulting in a critical strike and max damage.
However, if the enemy has an AC of 24 and you roll natural 20, plus your 3, this does not beat the enemy's AC. As such, the natural 20 grants you an automatic hit, but it is not a critical strike. You roll damage as normal.
-----------------
Another thing that popped into my head:
What's the general conensus on letting the Players know an enemy's HP total? From reading various posts from various DMs, they mention fudging HP totals on enemies to make battles easier or more difficult. Which made me realize that we are able to see the enemies' HP in our game. Two things come to mind-- This disallows any DM fudging (whether or not he'd want to do that), and it puts a focus back on numbers.
I'm just going to use Dave's game as an example-- after a significant hit (making bloodied, close to death, etc) he'll point out that the monster is very bloody, doesn't look happy, "on his last leg", etc. When it comes to undead, he'll mention how there's barely anything hanging on when they're near destruction. If we're not sure, we can ask how hurt each enemy looks on our turn.
But I distinctly remember in our Goblin Camp battle deciding who to attack based on HP. (The goblin had 7 HP left and I mentioned that no matter what, my damage minimum ensured that if I hit, I'd kill it.) This obviously makes us more efficent in determining stuff like that, but maybe we shouldn't know things like that.
I'm not pushing for one method or the other, I'm asking what you guys think. (This may actually fit better under the DM talk thread.)
The information about a crit needing to actually beat a target's defense to cause crit damage is correct, but unlikely to be an issue. If it were, you'd be going up against something that requires a 20 for you to hit it. Hopefully that won't be encountered any time soon.
I've been posting the HP because I'm not the most organized of people. It just seems easier.
I've been posting the HP because I'm not the most organized of people. It just seems easier.
If I showed HP on my monsters you'd all have been dead in the ettercap fight. I killed most of them off with as much as 1/2 their HP. Had I kept them their normal HP I would have killed the entire group.
doomdragon6
Staff member
..... :waah:Edrondol said:
And that's exactly one of the benefits to this kind of thing!
doomdragon6
Staff member
I can't.... I can't stop looking at it.SeriousJay said:less than 4 hours....
Edit: That.. That almost worked.
Doom: I'm not sure the difference in attack strength for a high damager versus two or more successful attacks probably won't be worth it unless it's a daily. Also, we have to be adjacent and all but two of our group are miserable ranged attacking cowards.
doomdragon6
Staff member
True, and since Shawn is a nice DM, it probably won't come up. I'm just saying if he decides to be a prick and gives us something we can't hit, it's an option. :sobad:
An attack bonus for a daily would work too. I don't know what you people's best damage is, but my daily can max out at 44. (Plus some extra damage to undead!) Guaranteeing a daily can't hurt.
But I'm definitely in the "take a chance on a hit instead of assist" camp.
I just need my D&D fix throughout the week, and that entails bringing up rules that don't matter.
An attack bonus for a daily would work too. I don't know what you people's best damage is, but my daily can max out at 44. (Plus some extra damage to undead!) Guaranteeing a daily can't hurt.
But I'm definitely in the "take a chance on a hit instead of assist" camp.
I just need my D&D fix throughout the week, and that entails bringing up rules that don't matter.
doomdragon6
Staff member
No. You're welcome. 
doomdragon6
Staff member
Are we really not gonna get exp for this 2 hour+ battle? ;_;
Yeah, I do think Shawn gave us too much for last game, but we do merit a little more for all this, I think.
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