Shawnacy's 4E D&D Game! (Thread allowed 30 pages)

[Jay]

Don't take this too personally people but I need to vent.

I won’t dwell on the game with too much detail (this is ¼ of the things I was thinking after the game) as I’ve already said my piece in vent after the game…. the first encounter was completely FUBARed by so many factors completely out of the DMs control. Shawnacy may not want to admit it as he’s a gentleman and prolly be a good Christian and blame himself but I won’t back up and will state what I feel.

It was already hard enough to deal with a hard encounter and having my character control ripped away from me (which I learned I detest). The mind-numbing slowness from players not preparing ahead of time got to me more than it ever did and literally ruined my gaming experience. I don’t know if it was the hiatus from last week but a lot of players went back to the old ways to completely not preparing their turn ahead of time. If you start your turn with…. “Ummm…. Well….. ummm….” I already know you alt-tabbed from something else and didn’t prepare at all for your turn. At this point I felt like stabbing people in the face. Having Shawnacy repeat himself more than he has to is completely unacceptable. PEOPLE, keep track of your conditions and keep track of what is going on!!!!! Asking every turn what is going on, what is affecting you, what you can or cannot do, what time is it in New Zealand was absolutely terrible to endure. The game literally sucked the fun out of me and at some point, as much as ashamed to admit it; I was far more interested in coercing my fiancée to make me a sandwich than to play the game. Thankfully, the game picked up… at least for me.

Combat doesn’t need to take very long but it will take hours if you dilly dally. As of next week, I will no longer hold my tongue in these matters. Please stop sucking the life out of my gaming experience!!!!! I'm sorry if you think I'm a douch for this post but at this point I almost feel like dropping, I was crying in boredom.

"Ummmmm... well..... umm.... welll..... ummmmm.... I guess.... ummm....."

 

[doomdragon6]

Well the thing was, I honestly didn't understand what was happening half the time.

One minute I'm slowed and immobilized, and then the next I'm prone, but not slowed or immobilized, without remembering a second attack to cause the new condition but not getting rid of this condition, but ERRIK still has all of his at once, and then my attack hit but it didn't because I was unkowingly already on the puppets' side but didn't know it, and then I want to attack my allies, but not these 3 allies, except this ally is dominated, and this one is ABOUT to be dominated, so my attack didn't really knock him out, it just turned him faster, and AGH!

The reason we couldn't keep track of everything is because it all barely made sense-- alright, that's actually extremely unfair to Shawn-- it made sense, but worked under a system of which we were not aware. So each turn we kind of had to re-assess what was happening and why.

And believe me, my attack "seeming to hit but Saryon noticed it looked like they were fine" was the most confusing thing of the battle. I didn't know if there was some illusion going on, or if being next to the Puppet Master granted resistances, or what, but to me it didn't make sense for me to attack, hit ALL FOUR of my targets (A GAMETABLE IMPOSSIBILITY) and then not only did they not really hit, I was unknowingly already on the puppets' side and wasn't actually attacking them to fool my allies.

However, once I'd turned and knew I was on the puppets' side, it became interesting, because (unlike Errik) I knew my motivation was to do as much damage to my enemies as possible, and I fully planned on blasting the shit out of 4 allies at once until I learned they were "on my side" too, so then I was going to use my Daily on Adia until I learned that I had to use an at-will. So ultimately I -had- to pull an Errik and use a minimally effective attack. =P

And THEN even when I critted on Grendmir, taking him down to -9 health (rendering him unconscious, which was my new puppet-side goal), he magically had 1 hp and had turned to the puppet side too.

So ultimately, I wasted a Flawless AOE (all 4 targets) and a Crit on things that didn't matter / were forced another way.

This is actually sounding particularly brutal, and I don't mean for it to, because I had fun. Things were hard to keep track of, but it was still entertaining. Like I said before, though, now we're just tiny puppets outside of a house with no leads. To be honest I would've wanted to stay in the house, but apparently it was the decision to leave it.

 

[Gusto]

The one thing ALL of my characters have in common is that they're easily angered by NPCs.

 

[Shawn]

There were a lot of issues with that encounter besides just slow turns.
First, everything in that encounter was made from the ground up. The creatures are based on 2nd edition versions and I inadvertantly made them a little powerful. Their needles are supposed to paralyze your limbs one by one. I simulated that by making a progression chart.

Slowed/Immobilized/Dazed/Stunned

When you reached the stunned state you fall to the floor which allows them to do the body swap. Technically they don't need you to be paralyzed for this, but it helps. However when making the creature I didn't really consider how easy it was for them to hit everyone. Just the regular puppets had a +9 to their attack against fortitude, which any of the casters are going to fail nearly every time. I also made the progression chart only savable one step at the time, which means that if you are Dazed and you save, then you are Immobilized. Kinda like a disease progression chart. This turned out to be a bit unfair because as I learned the little fucks could gang up on one person and pretty much insure he went down within a round or two.

The other issue was that M was not supposed to be in that fight. I had intended on him making "the villain escape" while his puppets kept you busy. But you guys started tearing through them so quickly I decided it wouldn't hurt to up the difficulty a bit. That thought quickly proved incorrect and since half of you guys were already puppet imposters within 3 rounds I decided to just quickly get the rest of you and move on to the next sequence in the toy shop. And again the horrible heat box that is my room and my total lack of sleep might have been to blame for my frustration.

So the first thing I need to do for next time is make some adjustments to the monsters. Such as either put a limit on the number of times they can throw their paralyzing needles, or lower the attack bonus by at least half.

 

[Hailey Knight]

Jay, honestly, paying attention really had nothing to do with it. I was paying attention, had in mind what I wanted to do, and my turns took 3-5 minutes still. I can't speak for others; I wasn't timing theirs or reading their thoughts. Who knows?

Also, we like to joke around a lot and there's nothing wrong with that. We don't need to "move on, move on" unless we're really stalling or bickering.

Also, if Shawn does feel we're stalling with anything, he can charge us with "delay." Isn't there a rule in the DM book about penalties for that?

 

[doomdragon6]

I don't know how I've sounded in my previous posts but I wanted to come back here and say something--

Today my parents came over to visit, and discussion turned to D&D, so I began to describe the current story arc (starting from the circus) and as I was telling them and my roommate about it, I realized how fun this arc actually has been.

I was thinking like, "Huh, Shawn felt it went badly, and Jay had his post, and I felt "odd" about it... But after describing it, it's actually been pretty kickass and I'm excited about next week."

So I just wanted to say that I'm having a really good time, Shawn. The combat may have not been smoothe, but like you said, you built it from scratch and things like that are trial and error. I have never DMed before, but I can tell that managing everything, staying creative, building this and tweaking that, HAS to be a terribly difficult job. Like, I very much appreciate what you do for us. If something doesn't work out perfectly, who are we to say anything? You've built us this entire world and adventure for us to roam free in. We absolutely appreciate you DMing us.

And like I said, I am excited about next week. I still have no idea what we're going to do to get out of this miss, but I have at least a few ideas for ways to get about the town or at least get attention.

Also, what Escushion said.

 

[Jay]

I have a huge problem with players not keeping track of the game as others play out their turn (I find it disrespectful) and always ask the same damned questions whenever it's their turn to catch up. While it's acceptable when something isn't clear or even confusing once in awhile... but man, I swear, Shawnacy was repeating the same thing 4-5 times last night. I was beside myself. That man had the patience to rival the Buddhist monk. AKA :

"So, moving through this curtain is a full move action?"
"Wait, I can only cast on-wills?"
"What am I affected by again?"
"So, who's affected again?"

I like people to take smart, efficient turns. I want the players to be anxious to roleplay and perform actions to make a difference in combat and be aware on things. Instead what we get are 2 hours encounters that drudges on and on with the same questions, the same hesitations and we got people taking long...longggg turns. When an encounter requires an average of 6 rounds to finish you have an average minute being used of : 1-3-6-4-4-3 = an average of 21 minute rounds (from the recording), add the mobs and each round is almost half an hour. I think last night's encounter only had 4-5 real rounds. And even I was forced to repeat myself a few times and I really hate that, that means people weren't listening, even to the RP parts. WTF! Look, I cannot take this much longer, if I don't see a change next week, I'm dropping from the game, the whole dilly dally isn't going to cut it for me.

+9 to Fort attacks is pretty OP, considering it only takes 4 hits to perm dominate a player completely... when they focus fire on you it sorta was game over. That meant they needed to roll a 3 to hit Saryon.... Never forget Shawn that I appreciate all the creative effort and while it can be smoother at parts and better optimized, I don't feel is my source of discontent.

 

[Hailey Knight]

I want the players to be anxious to roleplay

And order sandwiches.

that means people weren't listening, even to the RP parts.

Yeah, even to RP parts.

Also, there was confusion about the curtain because it seemed unclear between people's turns whether you had to take a move to touch the curtain, then a move to go through it, or if moving through the current could be part of moving up to it, but just used up all your remaining move actions. I believe it was the former, but there were instances where it seemed to be the latter. Had I been closer to it and not surrounded by puppets, I would have just cut the curtain at head level (basic melee roll d20 + 8) and saved us the trouble.

I probably sound like I'm getting defensive of myself, but I know at least a couple others besides me were paying attention and honestly were confused by what was happening at times. It was a strange battle and I don't think it should be used to judge, especially as how efficiently everyone was being during the first battle at the Dragonborn place (can't comment on the following ones, as I wasn't there. May have also contributed to your sense of things though; 2 less players is a third less time on player rounds). Which was fairly conventional in comparison, and that's not to say I want Shawn to do conventional all the time, as that would get boring.

As for Shawn DMing, I should hope ALL of us appreciate that. Shawn is often too hard on himself and second-guessing his decisions on matters with it when he's doing fine. I like to encourage a DM as good about stuff as he is. I also like one who allows the players to make jokes and such, which also takes time during combat and RP, rather than telling them to move along.

Also, Julie agrees with whatever I posted, even though she's not reading it and I haven't read it to her. :heythere:

 

[doomdragon6]

if I don't see a change next week, I'm dropping from the game, the whole dilly dally isn't going to cut it for me.

You have fun with that, Jay.

Anyway, back in Not-A-Stick-Up-Your-Ass Land, I think it was fun, but agree there was a lot of confusion, regardless of listening.

I'm going to guess the RP part where "people weren't listening" was when I asked you, Jay, what your puppet form was, because I forgot.

I'm sorry if I forgot about a Halfling Rogue puppet amidst the Jester, Princess, Knight, Monkey, and Dragon.

 

[Jay]

Despite some unwarranted off-base comments that I really don't care to get into, I see you guys are getting defensive and are not going to be immediately constructive so I'll back off and I'll see what happens next week and make a decision afterwards. Look, I know full well that I cannot force people to change their gaming habits and if they can't adapt, I'm simply not compatible to play with them and would rather do something else with my time. One thing is for sure, most of those long turns had little to do with joking around, people simply aren't prepared. When I lost control of Saryon, this was more evident than ever. That hour wait after that happened for the encounter to end really got to me.

And it was a halfling rogue with a rusty metal helmet on his head wearing a orange scarf, green shirt and purple pantaloons.

 

[doomdragon6]

I'll admit my comments were a bit harsh. Sorry Jay.

 

[Shawn]

I just want everyone to get along and enjoy the game. The last combat was confusing. It really was and I don't blame anyone for not knowing what was going on. Six player combat is going to be long no matter how you really look at it. Sure we can speed things up by planning out ahead, but we can't always be prepared what a badguy is about to do before you have a chance to react. We'll work at it, and we'll get it. I also like the joking around too. This game is fun, and sometimes commentary and little out of character comments really lighten the mood and give me another reminder why I enjoy this game. It's great when it's serious and it's great when it's not so serious.

 

[Hailey Knight]

I can see an hour wait to get to do anything because your character is controlled sucking. I was the last to get controlled and Julie wasn't controlled at all, so we really have no perspective there.

This battle had status effects, RP elements, mind control... I think the only thing that benefited planning was the tight quarters, and I say that as a melee class. Gusto and Doom had a lot more to consider each turn since they most often had to risk how much damage to do versus which of us were going to be hurt. Cause boy, do I love getting my scales scorched.

I think people should have an intended target, be that an enemy or ally (to be helped, hopefully) a couple turns before their turn, so the less they have to get their hearts set on a plan that isn't going to work due to changed circumstances. I think that's a fair expectation, though IF shit does hit the fan between two turns prior and their own turn, they may need to rethink things and that should be acceptable.

I don't want planning to come to the point where players are treating the party like their personal squad of soldiers just so their action can happen. We've already had arguments about people dictating the actions of others, and it's not fun when someone goes "Can you not do that, because I had this move I wanted to do" unless that's really going to be crucial to the fight, or if in-character they're making a plan together.

 

[Gusto]

It becomes difficult to plan moves in advance when all of my power selection AND accurate RP suggests that I should maximize the number of targets I hit every turn, and miss my allies if at all possible. This means that I have only a semblance of an idea of what exactly my power/target will be UNTIL it is my turn. I think I react pretty quickly, given the circumstances.

I think one of the things than slowed us down the most last session was my confusion over being "turned". I was the first one to act as the puppets took control of Kratash, Serin and Errik, and I had spent most of the previous round precisely calculating my exact move (I was gonna move to the top corner and use a Burning Hands to hit 3 swarms and the Boss Puppet, and probably burn down the whole backstage in the process). Instead, I had to grasp a completely new "worldview" in RP and a whole bunch of new rules and restrictions on top of that. It was confusing, and probably would have been faster had the first character to act under those circumstance been ANYONE EXCEPT ME. :heythere:

So my apologies for slowing us down a bit, but I feel it was justified.

 

[doomdragon6]

So what's the deal with this Thursday?

Are Gurpel, Daryl, and Julie going to be out of commission or what? Any word on that?

 

[Shawn]

not sure about Gurpel. Julie will be there, and if she's there Darryl will at least be partially there.

 

[Hailey Knight]

What version of Gametable are we using?

I've lost my character sheet and macros, so anyone who's not feeling patient tomorrow--too bad. I just had to buy another laptop in a two week period, so you can put up with me getting my shit back together. That, or I will skip out tomorrow, but I won't have time to put everything back together between getting home from work and the start of the game tomorrow with cooking dinner in between.

 

[doomdragon6]

Perfectly reasonable, Esc. Sucks having a computer crap out on you. I'd offer to put everything together for you but I don't have access to your stuff, orrrr.. Have any idea what you had before, so.. Yeah.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to tomorrow.

Oh! And I'm pretty sure we're using version 7.

 

[Shawn]

I can send you a copy of the last character update you sent me if you need it, Darryl.

 

[Jay]

Cooking dinner is for women.

 

[doomdragon6]

Cooking dinner is for women.

Well that came outta nowhere.

---------------

between getting home from work and the start of the game tomorrow with cooking dinner in between.

Whoop, there it is.

Skimming fail.

 

[Jay]

I'll be BBQing tonight, so I might be there just on time and will be stuffed to the rafters. Kindly provide excitement and rapid turns with previous recommendation or SeriousJay will transform into SlothyJay.

Make sure to make a BACKUP of your Gametable folder and to upgrade to version 7 and import your macros!

 

[doomdragon6]

I wanted to ask, roughly how tall are our puppets? It may have been said last time, but I've forgotten or was a dick and wasn't paying attention.

I've been imagining us at around 8 inches tall, does that sound about right?

 

[Jay]

We're a badass half-foot tall Company of Discord, that's how tall we are! :falldown:

 

[Hailey Knight]

Cooking dinner is for women.

See, down here in the States, we do things equally.

Whoever's making dinner also does so BEFORE the game.

I'm downloading 7 now, can't wait to see how well that works. I remade my character sheet now, but macros I'll try to get done. Julie may be late; not sure.

 

[Gusto]

I make the dinners ALL the time.

 

[doomdragon6]

Cooking dinner is for women.

See, down here in the States, we do things equally.

Whoever's making dinner also does so BEFORE the game.

No, no, cooking dinner is totally for women.

Actually, my policy is, just do whatever they want you to do so badly that they never ask you to do it again.

 

[Jay]

I make the dinners ALL the time.

Western Canadian men are weak.

 

[doomdragon6]

I really enjoyed that session. We spent half an hour trying to get inside a house that we were already in, but oh well.

Unfortunately, I didn't start recording until the first battle started, so you missed-- well.. Us trying to get into a house, Gurpel.

Anywho, here's the recording. Enjoy.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=L7D9L9XI

(I also felt a little more open roleplay conversation-wise. Always good I guess. Also, Adia's personality changes EVERY SESSION. XD)

 

[Shawn]

Welcome to Odiare, the happiest place on earth. Unless you're an adult. Then you're probably fucked.

 

[Jay]

I enjoyed the game session. Open RP is always enjoyable. Encounter was fluid and smart. Lance of Faith.. CRIT?!? Talk about Saryon's epic battle against the Jack in a Box! Looking forward to next week.

 

[Jay]

Odiare

^
:clap:

Hehehe

 

[Shawn]

I enjoyed the game session. Open RP is always enjoyable. Encounter was fluid and smart. Lance of Faith.. CRIT?!? Talk about Saryon's epic battle against the Jack in a Box! Looking forward to next week.

Yeah. Best part is it was all totally legit. It was just perfect you got the killing blow on that guy, specially after he hounded you for the entire battle.

Odiare

^
:clap:

Hehehe

You are familiar with the town?
Or that it's latin for "hate"

 

[Jay]

Town of Hate... made me cackle. I'm fully fluent in Italian.

 

[Jay]

Can this thread never be closed? Almost 30 pages.... Don't wanna miss the AWESOMEness of this thread.