The Random Crap Thread 2: It Hits the Fan.

PatrThom

PatrThom

As a creator, is there any switch to throw to say, “this channel/video is/is not ‘made for kids?’” Or must everyone submit to the judgement of the all-seeing algorithm?

—Patrick
 
Bubble181

Bubble181

PatrThom said:
As a creator, is there any switch to throw to say, “this channel/video is/is not ‘made for kids?’” Or must everyone submit to the judgement of the all-seeing algorithm?

—Patrick
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All the easy ways are covered, I'm afraid. One bare boob and you'll be completely banned because of American sensibilities, rather than just marked "not for kids". Shooting up some people before the start of the video won't have an impact because gun violence is regular fare in schools.
Maybe show someone smoking? That might work.
 
Cheesy1

Cheesy1

So all those channels who became "Family Friendly" (i.e.: Glove and Boots) so they could keep getting ad revenue are now in danger of having that taken away for being "Family Friendly". So where is the middle ground in all of this, Youtube?
 
GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
PatrThom said:
As a creator, is there any switch to throw to say, “this channel/video is/is not ‘made for kids?’” Or must everyone submit to the judgement of the all-seeing algorithm?

—Patrick
Click to expand...
Yes, I've already marked my channel as "not for kids." However, Google's algorithm can override your choice if it "believes" strongly enough that kids might want to watch your content bad enough.
 
PatrThom

PatrThom

GasBandit said:
Yes, I've already marked my channel as "not for kids." However, Google's algorithm can override your choice if it "believes" strongly enough that kids might want to watch your content bad enough.
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Oh great, this means YouTube is implementing their own version of Attractive Nuisance Doctrine, where it's your fault if kids flock to your content despite your warning(s) that it's not for children.

--Patrick
 
PatrThom

PatrThom

I’d be interested in knowing what’s behind that What’s content made for kids? link, as well as whether they warn you whether it’s subject to change without notice.

—Patrick
 
PatrThom

PatrThom

Tinwhistler said:
https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/9528076
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According to that answer article, your intent, label, title, or even preroll/superimposed disclaimers re: a channel/video are immaterial.
When deciding whether or not your channel or video is made for kids, you should consider various factors, including:
  • Subject matter of the video (e.g. educational content for preschoolers).
  • Whether children are your intended or actual audience for the video.
  • Whether the video includes child actors or models.
  • Whether the video includes characters, celebrities, or toys that appeal to children, including animated characters or cartoon figures.
  • Whether the language of the video is intended for children to understand.
  • Whether the video includes activities that appeal to children, such as play-acting, simple songs or games, or early education.
  • Whether the video includes songs, stories, or poems for children.
  • Any other information you may have to help determine your video’s audience, like empirical evidence of the video’s audience.
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"We will consider your video as 'made for/at kids' if:
  • It is about something relevant to kids.
  • It is aimed at kids.
  • It has any kids in it.
  • A kid could conceivably find it interesting.
  • A kid could understand it.
  • Characters in the video act like kids.
  • It features any kind of rhyme scheme.
  • Finally, it will be considered a video for kids if we find out that kids watch it."
Yeah. Real clear, YouTube. The defining characteristic of a video made for kids is that kids might watch it. By this definition, any conceivable video is "for kids." I saw The Shining when I was what, ten years old? War combat footage? Sorry, kids see that kind of stuff in social studies and history classes. Porn? Contains music, could be considered sex ed, and the grade level of the dialogue is certainly in the right range.

You might as well just come out and say that all videos posted to the site must be "for kids." I mean come on.

--Patrick
 
Tinwhistler

Tinwhistler

PatrThom said:
Yeah. Real clear, YouTube. The defining characteristic of a video made for kids is that kids might watch it. By this definition, any conceivable video is "for kids." I saw The Shining when I was what, ten years old? War combat footage? Sorry, kids see that kind of stuff in social studies and history classes. Porn? Contains music, could be considered sex ed, and the grade level of the dialogue is certainly in the right range.

You might as well just come out and say that all videos posted to the site must be "for kids." I mean come on.

--Patrick
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To be fair, this is FTC guidance, not a rule crafted by youtube. Amazon has a similar list:
https://developer.amazon.com/docs/policy-center/privacy-children.html
An app may be considered child-directed based on a variety of factors, including the following examples:

  • Subject matter of the app (e.g., educational)
  • Visual content (e.g., unicorns)
  • Use of animated characters
  • Presence of child-oriented activities and incentives
  • Type of music or other audio content (e.g., songs sung by children, not just songs that kids like)
  • Age of models (e.g., babies, toddlers, tweens)
  • Presence of child celebrities or celebrities who appeal to children
  • Complexity of language used on the app
  • Whether advertising on the app is directed to children
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COPPA is a shit-crafted law. But it's a law. You can't blame big business for trying to adhere to it.
 
PatrThom

PatrThom

Tinwhistler said:
COPPA is a shit-crafted law. But it's a law. You can't blame big business for trying to adhere to it.
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I can't blame them for respecting or attempting to respect it, no.
But if/when I see them taking advantage of its vague breadth as an excuse to censor videos they don't want, well, that's going to be a different story. This is definitely going to be one of those spirit/letter things.

--Patrick
 
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sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

The original Blade Runner is now in our past. The events of the film started on November 20 2019.

We basically got the shit-sack world with out space travel, replicants, archologies, and not even flying cars.
 
Dave

Dave

Staff member
sixpackshaker said:
The original Blade Runner is now in our past. The events of the film started on November 20 2019.

We basically got the shit-sack world with out space travel, replicants, archologies, and not even flying cars.
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I don't want flying cars until they are computer controlled. I don't trust fuckers with their cars on the ROAD. Think of the shit show if Jim Bob and his redneck idiot friends could FLY.
 
Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

Tinwhistler said:
COPPA is a shit-crafted law. But it's a law. You can't blame big business for trying to adhere to it.
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The ability for uploaders to flag their own videos as children-targeted or not was the only action mandated by the FCC. Everything else that Youtube is doing in response is entirely their decision, including the overzealous algorithm automatically flagging channels.
 
PatrThom

PatrThom

This sounds plausible.

I mean, it’s their platform, and they can rule run it as they see fit, and if the government is giving them an excuse to be able to peremptorily take down whatever content they want with the excuse, “The government made us! Honest!” then I would not be surprised.

—Patrick
 
Tinwhistler

Tinwhistler

I'm always buying weird stuff at the store that I've never tried before. If it's food and i've never eaten it, I want to try it, at least once.

So far, part of it went into some sugar to make a flavored sugar. Part of it went into some everclear to make buddha hand lemoncello. The rest is going to go in my honey-ginger glazed carrots on thanksgiving
 
PatrThom

PatrThom

I think in the discussion I was talking about, we eventually decided the fruit in question was a citron, and not a Buddha hand, but it turns out they’re both basically the same thing, a “fingered citron.”
Tinwhistler said:
I'm always buying weird stuff at the store that I've never tried before. If it's food and i've never eaten it, I want to try it, at least once.
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In a similar vein, we recently had a dinner of cassoulet and had cider with it that was a mix of apple and paw paw.

—Patrick
 
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Bubble181

Bubble181

PatrThom said:
I think in the discussion I was talking about, we eventually decided the fruit in question was a citron, and not a Buddha hand, but it turns out they’re both basically the same thing, a “fingered citron.”

In a similar vein, we recently had a dinner of cassoulet and had cider with it that was a mix of apple and paw paw.

—Patrick
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I never knew the pawpaw was indigenous to America. What the heck is Baloo on about when he's explaining how to pick them without getting hurt to Mowgli then? He's on another continent!
 
GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
The whole story on what's going on with Youtube and COPPA.



TLDR: Youtube is throwing its creators to the FTC wolves. If the FTC thinks you have mislabeled a video as "not for kids" and they think it IS for kids, the FTC can fine you for $42,530... PER VIDEO.

And the criteria they are using to determine what is "for kids" is so nebulous basically anything can be said to be so.

Furthermore, a video being labeled as "for kids" is pretty much a death knell for that video as far as The Algorithm is concerned. No comments, no recommendations, no subscription notifications, not able to be added to playlists, and pretty much all ad revenue goes away. So, basically, it will be impossible to make money on youtube with kid-targeted content (or content that falls under the FTC's nebulous description of what makes a video kid targeted... on top of the possibility of the $42k fine).
 
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GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
PatrThom said:
Sooo....yeah. Scrape whatever you want to keep by Christmas, else watch it vanish forever.

--Patrick
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I'm seriously considering shuttering my youtube channel, because even though I've marked it as "not for kids" and use profanity in nearly every video, some bureaucrat might decide one of my game reviews or tutorials is "for kids" because a kid might want to watch it and haul me into court.
 
PatrThom

PatrThom

I wouldn't blame you.
What're we ultimately going to have to do? At this rate, I wonder if what'll happen is that the "videos" uploaded to YouTube just end up being what amounts to a rapidly shifting QR code or other visually encoded bitstream, and you'll need some kind of unscrambler app to do the final decode and watch the actual video. Welcome to the not-so-subtly-steganographic layer cake.

--Patrick
 
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