Who are we and who do we want to be?

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I guess I'll toss my two cents in. Sorry my thoughts are kind of disjointed. I feel like what I have to say would just be echoing what a few others have said already, and so I'm just kind of running through this point by point in my head.

I honestly didn't realize the forum was having any real sort of problem. It just didn't really occur to me, honestly. I come here because it's an already established community I can come to and participate in, and discuss pop culture and life with the same group of nerds I've been interacting with for years.
So it didn't really register that we're not getting as many new users as would be ideal. I just don't think about this place in those terms.

As far as what we can do to keep more members, you guys are probably right that we could tone down our antics and reign in our insults, because as you say, people unfamiliar with our ways may not get that these are jokes, not meant to be taken seriously. But honestly? I feel like you'll keep more users, but it'll be a bland, dull, place to be. Those antics and that attitude are what draw me here, and if we all have to start censoring ourselves to the point that we can't crack jokes at eachother, I know I'm not the only one here who wouldn't stick around. There's nothing wrong with a community like that, a sort Suburban yuppy paradise but for the internet. Those are out there. But look who's here, and look at the community we have; we turned it into this because this is how we like it. If we didn't, we'd leave.


Like I said, it's an established community, and I don't know about you guys, but for me my friendships, and even my family, are built solidly around what to the outsider may seem like meanspirited jokes. This to me is the best kind of relationship to have with someone.

I don't think I have reported a single person here, ever. Someone would have to make a legitimately racist, sexist, threatening or otherwise hateful post that I couldn't immediately tell was a joke. And if that is happening and the group that you guys are calling "acidic" or "venomous" or whatever synonym you're using are all being serious with everything they say, well then I guess I'm blissfully ignorant, cause I just laugh at it.

In the end, I think I can boil it down to:
If we wanted to be something different than what we are now, we would be already.
 
M

makare

I've enjoyed the forum more in the last few months than I ever had. On one hand I give credit to the ignore function, seriously guys it's awesome, and on the other it has just seemed a lot mellower lately.
 

North_Ranger

Staff member
Personally? I come here for interesting nerd news, media discussions and a smidgen of games. I sometimes check the Arts, but I rarely visit Politics or Tech. And the times when I feel like not coming here... those usually come as a result of the feeling that people are just out there looking for fights instead of discussions, or just generally looking for reasons to be dicks to each other.

I do like some ideas suggested here, like linking forum posts to the main page to highlight what we're about. Nowadays I just go to the main page for the 0.6 seconds it takes to click the Forums link. A casual internet user isn't going to do that, because let's be honest, the front page is pretty damn bland at the moment.

Feeling a little tired still, will post more when I'm more lucid.
 
I am aiming this at El Juski solely because others refuse to aim their posts at El Juski: Get out. You're ruining this place. You cad.

On the subject of Charlie, the reactions to his posts came as they did because he wrote them to cause reactions. If another person had posted them, people likely would've talked to them about it, however, Charlie's shtick is well-known around here, so people don't try. When someone (Shego) finally did try, he decided to leave. Someone finally said "I'll give you a chance again and listen" and he had no idea what to do with that. Maybe he was tired, as he said. Or maybe his "views" really were just trolling and there was no discussion to be had.
 
I'd like to make a syntheses of all the ideas I've liked from this thread, but I'm sick and it would come out as a mess. So let me just tell you all the two main ideas I've had since I read Dave's original post half an hour ago.

Yes, I feel some people have been to hard on new users like Yoshi, who had their redeeming qualities, although I'm not sure that was central to his leaving, since as the quality of his posting increased, so did the not-so-gentle ribbing decrease. Anyway, we could indeed tone down the dickery around newbies, let it just be an unofficial, rarely enforced rule of 'be a bit more gentle or put a disclaimer saying it's a joke or that you don't mean ill'. BUT I'm starting to agree with the people saying that the people who run away maybe aren't a good fit for this forum.

Why is it such a big deal that one or two people are run away? I don't like it either, it is unpleasant, but regarding the survival of the forum this is only a problem because these one or two people are like, half of the new people we get. The real, long term solution to this is not stronger modding (which would kill the community even faster), or a half assed rule (which would definitely help but not solve), it is finding a way to draw more people in.

I know you have tried different things, and they have not worked for some reason or another. This has to be something easy to maintain, and shouldn't depend on the people generating the content. Putting newsposts directly from the forum in the front page (automatically?), or featured artist/blogger of the week are really good ideas (some have been tried in the past, why did they not work?). Also, wasn't zappit drawing a new comic that was front page material? I don't know if he said it sarcastically, but revisiting the webcomic idea with tweeks (less webcomics, rotating if needed, not a rigid schedule for the artists?) would also be good. If there are less webcomics it could be combined with the others.

Let me add an afterthought: I don't really see the forums being a lot less unpleasant than when I stopped lurking about a year ago (I came back a few weeks ago). It IS more passive agressive, as opposed to the more open agressiveness I've seen in the past. So I don't think this is really a problem. I don't thing the forum population shrinking in number is such a big problem either...


tl;dr: being nicer to newbies would be really good but the solution to the stagnant population is not that but drawing more new people in.

PS.: Ah, and Dave, I don't think you resigning would solve anything at all.
 

ElJuski

Staff member
I am aiming this at El Juski solely because others refuse to aim their posts at El Juski: Get out. You're ruining this place. You cad.

On the subject of Charlie, the reactions to his posts came as they did because he wrote them to cause reactions. If another person had posted them, people likely would've talked to them about it, however, Charlie's shtick is well-known around here, so people don't try. When someone (Shego) finally did try, he decided to leave. Someone finally said "I'll give you a chance again and listen" and he had no idea what to do with that. Maybe he was tired, as he said. Or maybe his "views" really were just trolling and there was no discussion to be had.
I mean, who knows. All I know is that I saw a unique, if controversial poster, that eventually was just shut down time and time again. It takes all sorts of different strokes, and I don't think the forum would be the same without the bite of different opinions. And if Charlie's views were really just boring trolling, he wouldn't have some of the most popular / busiest threads when he made posts. We're all adults here; you could all just have easily let his threads die, and ignore the guy.

Also I am not a cad -___-.
 
Charlie didn't have a ton of threads to "let die"; much of the time he was coming into other threads. At least that I saw; I'm not in the Politics forum a ton. Much of what I saw was his disruption in the other forums.

I'm not saying there aren't real people with the extremist views Charlie posted; I just don't believe he was one of them. I think if one of those people were here, posting those views, they'd be willing to discuss them, not just dropping troll-bombs into other threads, and then feigning innocence. That's I think what pissed some people off--you say he wasn't innocent (agreed!), but I'd say he pretended he was and played up the "poor little me" mentality even when someone disagreed with him without attacking him.

And to go back to the thread where he left for the 20th time, because I love it so, I don't think it's coincidence that he left when someone asked him to explain his point of view. Shego could've made fun of him. She could've gone bashing him. I'm sure she would've relished in doing so. Instead, she asked him to explain, so we could understand. And he ran off when that happened.

I won't say Charlie's presence had no perks. He certainly livened up the place, but it was often in regard to getting after him, not conversing with him, because he did not really converse the views he pretended to have. I think if someone who had those views came here and wanted to discuss them, that would be a contributing member of the forum, even if no one agreed with them. Charlie's shtick was not to discuss or to start discussion. He even said it himself before, that he posted things to piss people off. I'm sure in that post he was saying it to get people talking, but I think the pissing people off was the true joy for him.
 
S

SeraRelm

I'm still waiting for Yoshi to get back from whatever he's doing and be all
"
".

This is far, far less douchy and dickish than other places. I like to think of Halforums as a nicer forum without being all MLP. Yes, there are some people like *BALEETED* who make the place less pleasant, but if anything, I value them just as much. If we didn't have that diversity, we'd be a giant circle jerk... like the "*BALEETED* and *BALEETED* judge your pop culture" thread.

On a side note, if we have to be about something, I suggest "Live Chess."
 
I liked Charlie. He was fun to talk movies with, and when he wasn't actively putting his foot in his mouth, he was actually a pretty nice guy to chat with.

But he was a forum masochist. He could not present his views, real or not, in a way that didn't sound like a "flame me now" bugle. Everything he posted was made to be as vitriolic as possible, and the rest of the forum reacted in kind. Eventually you just have to step away from that sort of train wreck.

Or join in for the lulz, and wait for another movie discussion.
 
Krisken, the sentiment is seconded.
Thirded. Or second seconded, which would make it fourthed.

Dave, I can't think of anyone who'd be better for us. You've been a mature and intelligent forumite since your days as Edrondol, and I don't believe a change in this regard will be in any way beneficial.
 
I've been here, well a long time, and I've seen the change. It's not as civil as it used to be, and part of that is because some of the old regulars have departed. I don't know the reasons that they left, but I can guess that it was the caustic atmosphere that existed for several months. It's started moving back the other way, it's not as bad as it had become, but at the same time, it might be too little too late.

I think that Yoshi is the one that brought it to light in the last month though, new user, trying hard, but not being an ass about anything overall. Basically run off because he did a poor job of expressing himself in a thread.

I haven't used it, I have pretty thick skin about stuff, but the ignore function could really help some people that irritate the crap out of you. I also don't post in many threads because by the time my work schedule allows (or family stuff) it's all settled and somebody tromping in after it's died down doesn't really add to the conversation.

I guess that's all I have to add, for now, off to do something else.
 

fade

Staff member
If you're looking for content for the main page, why not embrace the seinfeldian nothingness of this place and make the front page of this place a little bit of the melange this place is? Refresh, you get cosplay, refresh, you get art, or game sales. That IS the theme of this place. We are the forum about nothing (cue random bass notes). I like the chaos. It's why I come here. It's WHY the threads go off topic. Complaining about that is like complaining that the sky has too much air in it. I'd go so far as to say that thread derailing isn't only the norm of this place, it's kind of its raison d'etre. It's happened since Image, and as gasbandit pointed out. But is it really chaos? Outside of internet forums, they just call it "conversation". That never stays on theme. That never stays on topic. Something comes up, and people go with that. Sometimes 2-3 people break off into mini conversations. It's real life, and I like it.
 
M

makare

What I find interesting is we really treat the forum as a chatroom but an actual forum chatroom never seems to last. I'm not sure why that is.
 

North_Ranger

Staff member
What I find interesting is we really treat the forum as a chatroom but an actual forum chatroom never seems to last. I'm not sure why that is.
Because we have the attention span of a rhesus monkey on caffeine and can't sit still long enough to wait for the other person to answer? :D

Nah, just kidding, just kidding... I actually enjoy the slower exchange of opinions of the forum over a chat room. You have time to read the articles, find some of your own, contemplate on your answers, formulate a decently legible answer... a lot of factors that speak in favour of forum posts over chat rooms.

Not to mention the fact that by the time you people are starting to get up and post, I'm already preparing to hit the hay. Gorram time zones...
 

ElJuski

Staff member
and speaking of which, is there a way to just ignore certain threads on that What's New page? Because that'd probably make me not go into a thread to dick around in it.
 
I do not click those threads, but I would rather certain threads didn't litter the What's New feed. It is a preference for making browsing the forum easier.
 
and speaking of which, is there a way to just ignore certain threads on that What's New page? Because that'd probably make me not go into a thread to dick around in it.
Yeah. It's a relatively new feature called "self-restraint." You should give it a try. :p
 
S

SeraRelm

It's the responsibility of the boards to control people's actions. Stop being so silly, guys.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
I'd suck a dick for that option... so many useless spam threads on these boards.
I think that's exactly what you said in the thread that asked for that feature... which this thread is rapidly becoming... the same requests, with the same rebuttals.
 
I'm convinced. If it is available, you should have that feature. I'm all for people self policing themselves and staying out of threads they know they'll be butt-faces in.
 
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