[MMO] WoW: Mists of Pandaria Beta

[ScytheRexx]

Little note, but it seems earlier today Ghostcrawler debunked warlock tanks, and already I see people complaining about crushing disappointment and anger. Some places so far have been pretty civil about it, others you think they are implying that GC is pissing on the warlocks grave.

Supposedly the reason for this, is that they are now developing all tank gear separate from DPS gear (yup, even for Druids), and they don't want to have to put in a tanking cloth set.

 

[SpecialKO]

This discussion makes me want to see if I can download the beta and jump back in.

#Damnyouwork
#WaitIworkinthegameindustry
#ButImtoogoddamnbusy

 

[ScytheRexx]

This discussion makes me want to see if I can download the beta and jump back in.

Did you get an invite? Realize, it's pretty buggy right now. Hope you not expecting a demo yet.

 

[Frank]

Ah, that's a bummer.

 

[SpecialKO]

Did you get an invite? Realize, it's pretty buggy right now. Hope you not expecting a demo yet.

No, not yet. Annual pass person here, I've just been too busy in recent months to hop on for more than leveling my alts idly while doing other things at home.

 

[ScytheRexx]

Ah, that's a bummer.

What, that it's buggy?

Be aware it's not that buggy, I remember in past betas when I would randomly fall through the world or quest chains would be entirely broken. I have had none of that.

These are the biggest issues we have right now.

Some of the Monk skills don't work (Spinning Crane Kick)
The Monks are not tuned correctly to be viable healers and tanks starting at level 15, when they would start those roles in dungeons.
The Pandaren have some missing emotes (No Dance) and missing sounds (No voices).
The Pandaren have some buggy animations (walking backwards with the male sometimes resets to the base pose)
You can reset talents but you can not reset spec, so deciding to test a Mistweaver Monk means you are stuck as that role.
The Wandering Isle has some water errors due to a change in the water graphics.

That's about it for the large ones, I am pretty sure with how complete it is already the expansion will likely release no later then this August, but don't hold me to that.

If you were actually talking about tank warlocks, at the very least they ARE keeping the skills that are making warlock tanking viable like the demonform glyph, they just won't have an official "spec" for tanking. It means a warlock that wants to tank wouldn't be able to do it through something like the Dungeon Finder, and they won't tune encounters for the class, but that if a warlock and his guildies really just wanted to walk into a heroic together, they technically could.

Instead they see most using it as a form of offtank in raids.

 

[Frank]

I was referring to the warlock tank thing.

 

[ScytheRexx]

I was referring to the warlock tank thing.

I figured that after writing my bug post, which is why I added that little part at the end. I didn't want to delete all that junk I wrote.

 

[SpecialKO]

I am pretty sure with how complete it is already the expansion will likely release no later then this August, but don't hold me to that.

Unlikely, regardless of build condition. When school comes back is a terrible time to release new games that require large investments of time. It's why most games are released either right before/during the holiday season (October-December) or in the run-up to summer (Feb-May).

October or November is a much more likely candidate.

 

[Shakey]

Yes, they had a spec that said it was a tank, but the whole game back in vanilla and going into BC was balanced around the idea of making warriors the only "real" tank.

That's what I meant. The class was and is defined as being able to tank. They just didn't make it a viable option at the start. The current tanks feel like tanks. Warlock tanks just feel like such a stretch.

All the people that are crapping their pants in excitement over warlock tanking are not sitting there going "well why can't we heal too?"

I'm sure they will eventually, but we'll see.

My issues were never with talents or game mechanics or end game content. It's the lack of immersion. I don't want to go back to Vanilla WoW. That's not what I'm getting at. What I miss is a huge world. Not one that you teleport around in, or fly at breakneck speed above everything. Was it a pain getting places? Yeah, but you felt like you were actually a part of something. It's one of the things I like about Eve. The universe is huge, and it takes forever to get across it. It's a pain in the ass, but you feel like you're a part of the universe.

I know it's not ever going back to that, and MoP isn't going to change much of what I have a problem with. So I just want to look at it again, and see if it's something I can get excited about in spite of all that. Plus the free upgrade to cata will be nice.

 

[ScytheRexx]

October or November is a much more likely candidate.

August is a bit of wishful thinking on my part, but I sure wouldn't mind hammering out a few stray bugs till October.

The current tanks feel like tanks. Warlock tanks just feel like such a stretch.

Why though? Warlocks wear cloth, but one of their defining abilities we that allows them to tank is Demon Form, which turns them into a hulking demon ala Illidan.

Looks at those ripped muscles and pulsing, demonic power. Are you telling me that thing looks like less of a tank then, say, a Monk? Monks will not have plate armor or a hulking bear form, they will always looks, in general style, to rogues.

My issues were never with talents or game mechanics or end game content. It's the lack of immersion. I don't want to go back to Vanilla WoW. That's not what I'm getting at. What I miss is a huge world. Not one that you teleport around in, or fly at breakneck speed above everything. Was it a pain getting places? Yeah, but you felt like you were actually a part of something. It's one of the things I like about Eve. The universe is huge, and it takes forever to get across it. It's a pain in the ass, but you feel like you're a part of the universe.

I can partially agree to this.

You see, I like immersion too, but I have limits. Immersion to me needs to be high enough that I get interested in the world (and I do, as anyone can see, I know more about the history of this little fantasy universe then most people probably know regular history), but low enough that is does not make my gameplay suffer for it. This is specifically why I can't stand EvE, because I feel it tries so hard to be a "living universe" that I get bored to tears actually playing it, there is not enough "game" there for me.

In the end, it's about balance, about being open to new gameplay and styles while attempting to keep the qualities that made the immersion so great. A good example of trying for more immersion but ultimately causing problems was the change to more linear questing, it makes each zone much more cohesive and tells a better story, but the lack of unique quest hubs made people burn out on those linear quests extremely fast, it was not balanced to those that want story and those that want speed.

If it makes you feel any better, MoP is not going to let us fly right out the gate like Cataclysm did. They realized allowing us to fly that quickly did mess with the scope of the zones. They felt "tiny" because we never had to slog through them on our ground mounts, which was another thing that just added to the problems of the expansion. On the flip side, there does come a point where you want to be able to get around quickly, and so we need to make sure flying mounts are still going to be around once we hit the cap and the scale of the world loses it's luster.

 

[ScytheRexx]

Interesting new loot mechanics. We already knew that they were altering the Raid Finder Loot system to be individualized, but they took some time to clarify it.

Unlike now, in which the game does a background roll to choose the dropped loot, and then everyone else can figure out if they want to roll on it or not, the game will instead roll on an individual player basis. If this background roll "wins" for that player, then he is given spec appropriate loot automatically. There is no ability to pass or greed, you simple join a LFR group, kill a boss, and you might get an item or you might not. They are doing this to prevent drama, since you are now not fighting with the players, just the laws of probability.

That is not all however, they also revealed another new system. Bonus Rolls.

Basically, while doing daily quests for a certain faction, you can purchase Charms. These Charms can be taken into a raid (Whether LFR, Normal, or Heroic) and once the boss dies, a new UI appears asking if you want to attempt a second personal roll. If you use up the charm for the bonus roll, it will attempt another roll on the bosses loot table. If you win, you can get another piece of loot, but even if you lose, you will get some gold or other consolation for using up the charm.

Sounds brilliant to me. It gives raids a reason to do daily quests and travel the world a bit more, while also giving everyone extra chances to get those shiny items, even if they lose the original rolls.

 

[SpecialKO]

Hmmm, I like that concept.

The absolute worst part of raiding was how loot rolls added a good 5-10 minutes of arguing to every encounter that people weren't geared out of unless your guild has a specific system that everyone agreed to (which usually only cut the arguing by about half).

I remember before I stopped raiding a few months ago that my guild was actually debating bringing back Suicide Kings since we tended to have rotating raid spots (not enough people for 25, too many for 10).

 

[ScytheRexx]

The absolute worst part of raiding was how loot rolls added a good 5-10 minutes of arguing to every encounter that people weren't geared out of unless your guild has a specific system that everyone agreed to (which usually only cut the arguing by about half).

Be aware that this system, for now, is only for LFR, which means normal raids (which is often the level used by guilds) won't have the system outside of Bonus Rolls.

I do kind of wish it worked like this for all dungeons and raids though. It would be so refreshing to have whether I get loot or not based on a SINGLE roll of luck rather then two rolls of luck (first roll for the proper loot to drop, second roll to win it) plus the removal of that chance the Arms Warrior steals my tanking shield.

 

[SpecialKO]

Be aware that this system, for now, is only for LFR, which means normal raids (which is often the level used by guilds) won't have the system outside of Bonus Rolls.

Wait, really? Is it so guilds can still shard unwanted items?

 

[ScytheRexx]

Wait, really? Is it so guilds can still shard unwanted items?

I think it's more that guilds can easily distribute among themselves, since guilds are often the same 10/25 people. Drama can happen but the guild can work itself out, since the one bringing the drama can be held accountable to the guild.

LFR, being random, means you can join one week and have 24 other unique people compared to the last week. This means everyone is already "out for themselves" and thus loot drama gets worst when people roll on items regardless of spec or even sometimes need, since there is no accountability.

This is designed to remove the group part of looting and individualize it. This way you fight and kill the boss for your own personal chance to roll rather then a small chance your token would drop and then have to fight the dozens of others attempting to take the same token. It removes that conflict.

Also, since all loot is individualized, there are no "loot slots". Rarely a whole raid could get one piece of loot each if they all roll high, and on the other side a whole raid could get nothing if they roll low. A single raid has a chance of getting 0-25 items per boss (0-50 if you count the bonus roll charms).

 

[Shakey]

I still don't like the idea. I just don't buy into the idea of a warlock being a tank. It's just my opinion though. Putting them in demon form will also cause the same problems they're trying to fix with druids. You don't get to see your shiny new equipment. I did see boom chickens are going to get astral form now. If they can make a different form that can show equipment, it might work.

I can partially agree to this.

You see, I like immersion too, but I have limits. Immersion to me needs to be high enough that I get interested in the world (and I do, as anyone can see, I know more about the history of this little fantasy universe then most people probably know regular history), but low enough that is does not make my gameplay suffer for it. This is specifically why I can't stand EvE, because I feel it tries so hard to be a "living universe" that I get bored to tears actually playing it, there is not enough "game" there for me.

In the end, it's about balance, about being open to new gameplay and styles while attempting to keep the qualities that made the immersion so great. A good example of trying for more immersion but ultimately causing problems was the change to more linear questing, it makes each zone much more cohesive and tells a better story, but the lack of unique quest hubs made people burn out on those linear quests extremely fast, it was not balanced to those that want story and those that want speed.

If it makes you feel any better, MoP is not going to let us fly right out the gate like Cataclysm did. They realized allowing us to fly that quickly did mess with the scope of the zones. They felt "tiny" because we never had to slog through them on our ground mounts, which was another thing that just added to the problems of the expansion. On the flip side, there does come a point where you want to be able to get around quickly, and so we need to make sure flying mounts are still going to be around once we hit the cap and the scale of the world loses it's luster.

Eve is obviously on the far end of the spectrum, but there is a middle ground they could work towards. My wish list would be.

• Force people to be at an instance entrance to queue for it. It would get people out of the capitals and into the world. It could also make for some interesting pvp situations in pvp servers. Maybe once you're 5 or 10 levels above the instance you can queue from anywhere.
• No flying in the capitals. God damn that's annoying.
• Slow down flying, or make flying mobs that attack you more common. Or both.
• More world bosses. Maybe some that roam an entire area like the fel reavers. I nearly shit myself the first time one of those snuck up on me. I haven't played much in cata, did they add any of these?
• Fewer portals.

 

[ScytheRexx]

I still don't like the idea. I just don't buy into the idea of a warlock being a tank. It's just my opinion though. Putting them in demon form will also cause the same problems they're trying to fix with druids. You don't get to see your shiny new equipment. I did see boom chickens are going to get astral form now. If they can make a different form that can show equipment, it might work.

Seeing equipment is not that big of a problem, actually, you should have seen the shitstorm that happened when they removed tree form as a constant shapeshift. It got so bad they are adding it back in as a Glyph for MoP. Druids like their shapeshift forms, it's one of the reasons they picked the class. Warlocks I talk with are fine not seeing the gear in demon form, the only wish I see is they want a valid female version of the model for female characters.

You don't have to like the idea, but at least be straight about it and admit, from a standpoint, it makes sense for a big hulking demon man to take a lot of hits.

Now to answer what you feel will improve the game.

• Force people to be at an instance entrance to queue for it. It would get people out of the capitals and into the world. It could also make for some interesting pvp situations in pvp servers. Maybe once you're 5 or 10 levels above the instance you can queue from anywhere.

They attempted something like this by making it that discovering the dungeon was a requirement to even queue for it. Players hated it so much that the requirement was removed in the very next patch. The LFD and LFR tools have been majorly praised as one of the best things to happen to the game in years. You are not going to see people want to revert to the old methods of traveling to dungeons, and any that do are so rare it wouldn't be feasible to cater to them.

• No flying in the capitals. God damn that's annoying.

Why exactly? What is so bad about people using flying mounts in capitols? Be aware, I can personally live with this as I am used to it from the old way Dalaran used to work, but I never found it to be such a big deal that having people flying around "annoys" me. It's all just quality of life improvements.

• Slow down flying, or make flying mobs that attack you more common. Or both.

Not going to happen. There are many that think the mount flying is already becoming way to slow compared to the world size. As for flying mobs, most people enjoy flying because it is a method of travel that does not have you attacked every few feet. You will find some that consider it boring and want to have "danger" while traveling, but they are few and far between then those that use flying as a safe method of general travel. Again, this would detract from the game in the long run rather then add to it.

• More world bosses. Maybe some that roam an entire area like the fel reavers. I nearly shit myself the first time one of those snuck up on me. I haven't played much in cata, did they add any of these?

This is a wish you will be getting, as adding world bosses like Garr in Cataclysm were seen as a positive thing. They will be adding more in the new expansion and are going to push for the Horde and Alliance to compete over killing them.

• Fewer portals.

This wish, technically, was already granted. Dalaran used to have city portals to all major cities, but they removed them in favor of only a portal to Stormwind, since that was the new hub and the didn't want people just porting to Dalaran or Shattrath. However, they are not going to remove all the portals they have, as one is a perk (Mage Portals) and the others are required to be able to even do Cataclysm content (Cataclysm Zone Portals). To be honest, I want more portals, I just want the portals to be more spread out. Example, those Emerald Dream trees in Ashenvale, Feralas, Hinterlands, and Duskwood I felt should portal between eachother for higher level druids.

In the end, they will not cut down on portals to an extreme. You will still have basic required portals for zones or class perks, and likely in MoP we will have portals to return to the main continents from Pandaria.

 

[Shegokigo]

Quick point on Flying Mobs.

Anyone remember Skettis?

No. Just no.

 

[ScytheRexx]

Anyone remember Skettis?

Not nearly as bad as those dragons that liked to fireball you off your mount in Blades Edge. Sure made attempting to do my Ogri'la/Skyguard dailies a lesson in frustration.

 

[SpecialKO]

• Force people to be at an instance entrance to queue for it. - No way, that was one of the most frustrating parts of WoW before that. I'm fine with no insta-warp, but queuing as a whole needed to be made less irritating. The endless "LFG H UK 80 Heals/DPS" shit had to stop.
• No flying in the capitals. God damn that's annoying. - Wait, why is this part annoying?
• Slow down flying, or make flying mobs that attack you more common. Or both. - I am not so down with slowing down flying, but flying mobs to make areas more dangerous is fine by me.
• More world bosses. - 100% agreed.
• Fewer portals. - Mixed on this one. On the one hand, it made travel much easier. On the other, it made the capital city problem even worse.

So, as I understand it, I need to have real outside quote text to make HB, right?

 

[Shakey]

I loved Skettis and Ogri'la. Actually, BC was my favorite xpac world wise. It really wasn't that bad as long as you paid attention. Everybody hates a little extra danger, but it makes you pay attention. Otherwise you just fly around going from quest to quest half asleep. Sometimes a little frustration is good.

The LFD and LFR tools have been majorly praised as one of the best things to happen to the game in years. You are not going to see people want to revert to the old methods of traveling to dungeons, and any that do are so rare it wouldn't be feasible to cater to them.

I know it won't change, and that's fine. I'm just looking and thinking of what made the world interesting. Walking through the huge doors in Blackrock Mountain or finding your way down into the Sunken Temple, it made you feel like you were going somewhere. It feels like dungeons are just there to grind loot as opposed to a part of the world now.

Flying in cities just bugs me. I don't really have a reason other than it does. I don't like seeing a ton of mounts running around everywhere. It wasn't that bad until they decided to put ginormous mounts in the game. It just looks so cluttered.

 

[ScytheRexx]

I loved Skettis and Ogri'la. Actually, BC was my favorite xpac world wise. It really wasn't that bad as long as you paid attention. Everybody hates a little extra danger, but it makes you pay attention. Otherwise you just fly around going from quest to quest half asleep. Sometimes a little frustration is good.

We will have to agree to disagree on this. I never found it all that fun, I don't play games to get frustrated with them, I play them to have fun.

You like the immersion qualities, I can understand that, but WoW is not a just a virtual world, it's a virtual world designed in a way that it plays out like an amusement park. You get in, enjoy yourself without commitment, and get out when you feel like it.

You mentioned how "amazing" things like Sunken Temple and Blackrock Depths were, but when it came down to it what were the more popular dungeons? SM, Deadmine, and Shadowfang Keep. What were the ones usually panned as overly complicated and rarely run by general PuGs? Blackrock Depths, Blackrock Spire, Scholomance, and Maurudon. Why? Because the former were focused adventures, while the latter were giant mazes. Even places like Stratholme were, by the fans themselves, split into two singular dungeons with straight pathways.

This is why ever since BC, they have made every dungeon into the focused hallway, and those that attempted to branch out and become larger, like for instance the re-tuned Zul'Gurub and Zul'Aman, required them to later patch away boss requirements because people were tired of wandering around the whole map.

I hate to say it man, but what you want and what the players of WoW want have taken two entirely different turns. You will not get what you want out of it because people in WoW are looking for an entirely different game, one the have crafted all this time through suggestions and feedback that Blizzard has been trying to fulfill as much as possible. The fans want a game balanced between world and gameplay, rather then making one heavier at the detriment of the other. You want a virtual "world" ala EvE, and that ship sailed a long time ago.

 

[Shakey]

Yeah, I get that. It wasn't really the dungeon itself that I was talking about. I think the dungeons that follow a path are better. There's no need to get players lost. It's more the entrance and getting to it. The feeling that it belongs somewhere in the world, it has a place. Seeing what's going on outside of a dungeon adds something to the dungeon itself. New players can queue up for dungeons and never know where it's actually at in the world.
People don't like that, and that's fine. When I try it out again I think I'll try to take it at my own pace. Part of what burned me out before was it all feels so rushed now. I'll maybe take time to visit all the areas and explore rather than rush through quests.

 

[ScytheRexx]

Well, to be honest, this never really bothered me because I am an explorer in general. I like going around and finding things, so I always know where the dungeon entrances are. I have, in the past, even suggested that the LFD queue teleport people outside the dungeon instead of inside, so they have to walk in, but that didn't go over well with fans or Blizzard due to the fact it would have caused two load screens and also have been abused for teleport purposes.

Also, if exploring is your passion, maybe you should take up Archeology. It is all about exploring, and if you limit yourself to a ground mount, it's also a pretty damn difficult one.

In the end, definitely take it at your own pace. I play a lot, but I do it always on my own terms. The minute I tell myself I am not having fun, I stop, and I will go a week or more without playing until I get the itch. It's not worth rushing if the rush is not enjoyable.

 

[Shakey]

Going back to the new loot system, I don't know how good it would be in LFD. You only get items based on your spec, so you have no chance in collecting off spec items. I know it sucks having DPS grab a tanking item you need, and the tank should definitely get first crack at it, but if it's not needed by the tank there's no reason you shouldn't have a chance at it. No one wants an undergeared tank or healer, so it's the only way many people have to get geared up without having people scream at you constantly. Maybe just remove the need option for everyone unless it matches your spec, instead of class.

 

[ScytheRexx]

Ghostcrawler said they are looking into that. The idea right now is to add a toggle that basically tells the game "I am willing to get all loot usable by me, regardless of my spec." and then it will add that to the background loot roll so you can get, say, INT plate armor even though you are playing that minute as retribution.

The only reason they are making it spec specific as default is because they want to make sure people are rewarded something usable for the role they are playing, since that is likely the items they want. Offspec is something most work towards only when they have collected all the mainspec gear possible.

 

[ScytheRexx]

Was able to finally update to the new build and check out Pandaria. It's really buggy right now, as I was unable to use half the portals/flight paths and at one point while hearthing on my worgen, found myself stuck at Dalaran.

I have to say though, Pandaria is friggin gorgeous. I can't fly myself, but I ran around for a bit and also took the Pandaren flight path (Which, BTW, are magical kites) between the main Pandaren city and the Horde/Alliance bases in the Jade Forest. Checked out all the details from the trees to the cities to the waterfalls and high hills. There are Hozen everywhere, as they seem to be one of the main enemies of the zone.

Next stop is going to be the new dungeon. They also had an ability to queue for the first scenario, but it keeps telling me I can't do it yet, so either it requires a higher level, or it's bugged.

 

[Weloenstal]

If my hunter learns to heal or tank i'll be shocked.

 

[Weloenstal]

Eve is obviously on the far end of the spectrum, but there is a middle ground they could work towards. My wish list would be.

• Force people to be at an instance entrance to queue for it. It would get people out of the capitals and into the world. It could also make for some interesting pvp situations in pvp servers. Maybe once you're 5 or 10 levels above the instance you can queue from anywhere.
• No flying in the capitals. God damn that's annoying.
• Slow down flying, or make flying mobs that attack you more common. Or both.
• More world bosses. Maybe some that roam an entire area like the fel reavers. I nearly shit myself the first time one of those snuck up on me. I haven't played much in cata, did they add any of these?
• Fewer portals.

Oh boy...
I like the current queing system alot and so do most people this is staying fir a fact. Flying is capitals is Epic! everyone does it. Slow down flying?! Are you INSANE??!! I hope they give us grand master flying with at LEAST 350% flying! I'm a speedaholic. now world bosses, I LIKE that one. THIS is a good idea. Fewer portals. No Thanks. I like my portals.

Now it's bad enough that you can't fly till 90, so the'd better at least give us faster flight.

Talent system: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think I made my point on the talent system lol.

 

[ScytheRexx]

Talent system: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's really not that bad.

The thing about the old trees, was that the while you had customization in theory, you never actually had that much in practice. So many of the talents were filler that were required for your spec to do his job correctly, so you couldn't really give up certain talents for other ones.

The new talent system basically takes all those required talents and baked them into the class, spec, and abilities. For instance, now Pyroblast naturally does the Hot Streak talent, without ever having to put points into anything.

This leaves them room to make the talents we do have actually matter, doing similar jobs in very unique ways. It will remain to be seen how it plays out in the long run, but what I have messed with so far, I find, to be much better then the old system. I actually have a lot of trouble choosing what I want now.

 

[Shegokigo]

And my beta is downloading..... excellent.

 

[ScytheRexx]

And my beta is downloading..... excellent.

Gratz

 

[Bowielee]

Well, just my 2 cents, and I know that they've pretty much said lore lol in favor of gameplay mechanics, but if they are making monks a tanking class, they SHOULD have cloth tanking gear. Leather doesn't seem right on a monk to me. And now that you've pointed out the demon form of the warlock, even from a lore standpoint it could make sense for tanking.

Doesn't change my dislike of class homogeny, though.

 

[Gared]

Got my beta invite yesterday and managed to get the download done last night before it got too terribly late, but as is to be expected, the servers were absolutely packed and there was no way in hell I was getting online. Managed to get online briefly this morning before coming to work. Didn't get much accomplished other than changing from my PvE tanking gear to my PvP healing gear and choosing new talents. I gotta say though, that I love the new talent system. It's so much more fun than plotting out the best way to get a .000000001 percent increase in overall healing effectiveness through spending points in talent trees.