The Zoe Quinn sex-for-reviews scandal
- Thread starter GasBandit
- Start date
GasBandit
Staff member
You're right. Problem is, only way to find that land mine is by stepping on it.
figmentPez
Staff member
To be fair, categorizing all of Tumblr as SJWs is like saying that all of Reddit is MRAs.
GasBandit
Staff member
I prefer to think of it like a modifier. There are feminists, and then there are tumblr feminists.
So it's not to say that all of tumblr are SJWs, but it's certainly where the most irritating of them happen to gather.
Sounds like a plan.
Personally I think at this point the most toxic place in the internet is Twitter, but maybe that's just me.
GasBandit
Staff member
Really? Even moreso than 4chan?
For my part, I'm not really a fan of any kind of social network. I don't have a facebook account, nor twitter, Youtube put a gun to my head and made me get a google+ account but it's not linked to my real identity. I will cop to having a linkedin profile for my meatspace self, but that's only because if you work in the IT industry and you don't have a linkedin profile, potential employers think you're some kind of charlatan or mutant techno-unabomber.
Honestly? Yes. 4chan hides behind anonymity, but generally the subject of vitriol isn't ever present in the thread. It's like a bunch of teenagers talking about someone behind their back. Yeah it's bad, but Twitter is people directly interacting with the person/group, on a public media platform with limited to no anonymity, and on top of that forcing all their hate into 140 characters. Plus, how many public figures and people in various industries (games, movies, etc) have gotten in trouble for stupid things said in retaliation to Twitter remarks? More and more over the last few years.
GasBandit
Staff member
Even the part where she claims Hitman games "invite and reward players for violently harming and killing women" when in fact the games penalize you for doing so?
I'm talking about the broader psychological issues of ingroup thinking and people who think they're not vulnerable to influence actually being more prone to be influenced. This has been established for decades.
If great swaths of his argument are based off of untruths, I see no reason to take his argument seriously.
If great swaths of his argument are based off of untruths, I see no reason to take his argument seriously.
I'll admit, that was a small error she made in the overall argument. A large, overall argument that whatshisname doesn't address. Nor do most of her detractors, I've noticed. They're not addressing her overall arguments, but rather nitpicking things like using other YouTuber's videos (a fair, but minor critique) or that she "scammed" so many people out of their money when really, she wasn't asking for very much in the first place.
GasBandit
Staff member
Well, I don't have the psychology background to speak to that. I do, however, have the video gaming background to know she's full of it.[DOUBLEPOST=1409007707,1409007674][/DOUBLEPOST]
Did she give back the extra or keep it?
One error doesn't invalidate an entire argument, basing your entire argument off of false claims does.
I have no idea, and so what if she kept it? People freely donated to support her project. She was well within her right to keep it if she wished.
The video saying "no can mean yes" and "it's more about body language" is like saying anything can mean anything and gives free reign to justification being in the eye of the beholder.
If no means no, and the guy interprets it as yes = rape.
If no means yes, and the guy interprets it as no = miss out on sex. Oh no, the poor baby. I feel like the M in MRA should stand for Miserable crybaby, because "men" is supposed to be the adult form of "boys", and being a whiny bitch about not getting your way is not how adults should behave.
If no means no, and the guy interprets it as yes = rape.
If no means yes, and the guy interprets it as no = miss out on sex. Oh no, the poor baby. I feel like the M in MRA should stand for Miserable crybaby, because "men" is supposed to be the adult form of "boys", and being a whiny bitch about not getting your way is not how adults should behave.
GasBandit
Staff member
Spoiler - she kept it. It's pretty good money peddling victimhood.
GTA is pretty indifferent to all forms of violence, other than the possibility of too much/too visible violence raising your star level and making the police chase you. Yes, we've all heard the oft-quoted "you can pick up a prositute, have sex with her, and kill her to get your money back" but in GTA or Saints Row you can pretty much kill anyone you see to "get money" with the same police-response caveat.
Now, ARE there sexist games? Definitely. The girls in most Leisure Suit Larry games are one-dimensional sex-in-exchange-for-a-macguffin androids, albeit with no violence toward them, but plenty of objectification and oversexualization. But she didn't choose to use those ones. She specifically (or perhaps randomly) chooses successful mainstream titles with the expressed purpose of ferreting out demons that may - or more often - may not exist. You tilt at enough windmills, maybe one day you do find a giant. But it doesn't validate the process of how you got there, or patch the holes in the walls of all the windmills you tilted.[DOUBLEPOST=1409008943,1409008820][/DOUBLEPOST]
You're doing the same thing the espousers are doing - oversimplifying. No rarely means yes. No should always mean no. But as previously mentioned, it gets murky sometimes because relationship shit can get retarded.
Oh, okay, so she was supposed to just ignore all the rape and death threats, attempted hacking of her account, and denial-of-service attacks? She wasn't playing a victim. She was a victim of all that harassment just because people didn't agree or want to hear what she had to say about women's portrayal in video games. Are you saying that all those juvenile, personal attacks on her were justified? Yeah, more people supported her maybe to spite the immature people who attacked her, but again, so what? She didn't ask for their support. She only received a large amount of news through various gaming sites because of all the ridiculous reactions people had. You could argue she received so much funding because of the publicity of the nonsense. If anything, those attackers helped support her campaign just by bringing more attention to it with their juvenile reactions.
I think Bowie put it better than I would:
If it came up for me, and then later the girl said "But I did want to", my response would be you need a better word, because without a previous discussion on our personal terminology, no means I'm not having sex.
GasBandit
Staff member
I think I've already replied to this post.
She didn't start off being a victim, she started off peddling the idea of female victimhood. Yes, she then later got lots of reprehensible death threats and all the other things you say... but it sure parlayed into a decent profit for putting out 9 youtube videos in 2 years. Interesting question you raise with your last sentence, though - do you think she would have made as much money had she not held victim status?
Yes, yes, we're all Galahads on the internet, only tested in completely unambiguous situations with no nuance, confusion or pressure.
Well, straw poll. How many people in this board have had sex with a woman who said no to sex, but later said that it was OK?
More importantly, women of the board, do you ever mean yes when you tell a man no?
Personally, I've been told no and said no to sex and all activity stopped then and there.
More importantly, women of the board, do you ever mean yes when you tell a man no?
Personally, I've been told no and said no to sex and all activity stopped then and there.
GasBandit
Staff member
Because THAT'S scientific, impartial, representative and not in the least bit pressured.
But for the record, yes, I have actually had a girl get mad at me for not realizing that she meant yes when she was heavily implying "no." I obviously just "didn't care enough" to keep chasing.
So, the ramification of you responding to a no as a no was that she got mad at you?
In my mind that's preferable to possible rape charges.[DOUBLEPOST=1409011232,1409010916][/DOUBLEPOST]https://www.halforums.com/threads/controversial-poll-about-sex.30750/
If anyone wants to answer the question.[DOUBLEPOST=1409011340][/DOUBLEPOST]I'd also point out that one of the oldest arguments defending rape is the old "your mouth says no, but your eyes say yes" argument.
In my mind that's preferable to possible rape charges.[DOUBLEPOST=1409011232,1409010916][/DOUBLEPOST]https://www.halforums.com/threads/controversial-poll-about-sex.30750/
If anyone wants to answer the question.[DOUBLEPOST=1409011340][/DOUBLEPOST]I'd also point out that one of the oldest arguments defending rape is the old "your mouth says no, but your eyes say yes" argument.
If you're being pressured into sex, then you're on the wronged side of things.
Look, I don't know your sexual history and I don't want to. Treating no as no seems to be a pretty low-risk. Missed out on sex because she used no as yes ... so what? There would be other nights, or other women.
But I've stepped off before when things weren't clear, and I'm fucking glad I did, because later she told me she was scared. Would it have been easier if I'd known then? Of course. But the situation was uncertain, I backed down out of caution. You know what? There were later times to have sex when it was clear, but imagine if I hadn't been cautious? I would've been horrified with myself, because I'm not that kind of person.
It's not that difficultto not have sex, but guys act like they're in such a challenged situation. The video maker shouldn't be handing that shit out as advice, because I'd guess it's largely the guys in unambiguous situations who use that shit to justify doing whatever they want.
GasBandit
Staff member
Oh, I agree, and it was also my clue to not have anything to do with her any more. But it doesn't change what I've replied to you for now the third time - that there is still a very, I won't call it "common" but certainly not "rare," tendency for some women to use "no" as a test to see how far you'll go and what you'll do. Be it to see if you "want it bad enough" or a test of your alpha maleness or whatever, or just to see if you'll chase when they run - there's some fucked up mind games going on out there.
And furthermore, it's also possible that Yes can mean No. At the risk of spilling yet more of my private life out on this board, there were times when THAT happened as well in my longest term relationship. That was not a fun time. Yes can also become "no" ex post facto, as some (fortunately not me) have found out to their sorrow.
Come to think of it, in a non-sexual situation, I can guarantee you every married man on this board can tell you when yes has meant no - instances of saying "sure" or "go ahead then" or "do what you want."
The verbalization of the words is only part of the communication process.
Edit - get a load of this uplifting bit of pablum -
I guarantee you a man didn't write that.
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GasBandit
Staff member
I would be very concerned about you if that didn't make you cranky.
"Playing hard to get" was stupid when it was invented and it's still stupid now. Women are taught to "play hard to get" and see whether the guy's "really" into you. Men are taught women will play hard to get and that if they say "no", you should push a bit harder. Both are wrong, and can lead to crappy situations and toxic dating scenes.
I'm completely with Gas here - No should always mean No, you should definitely always treat it as a No, but you should be prepared to be told that it wasn't meant that way after all. I've been on both sides of that fence. As has been said, of course, the downside of accepting a No as a No tends to be far, far less problematic than the downside of "misinterpreting" a No as a Yes.
I'm completely with Gas here - No should always mean No, you should definitely always treat it as a No, but you should be prepared to be told that it wasn't meant that way after all. I've been on both sides of that fence. As has been said, of course, the downside of accepting a No as a No tends to be far, far less problematic than the downside of "misinterpreting" a No as a Yes.
Didn't someone on this board know of a girl in their college who wouldn't date a guy unless he asked her out 10 times, to make sure he really wanted to date her? I feel like that was here. So, you know, "harass me if you want to date me."
Hollywood in general still hasn't learnt the difference between "harass and stalk" and "romantic gesture", so how do you expect the youth of our nations to learn it?
GasBandit
Staff member
That was me, and yes. Her rule was a guy had to ask 3 times, get a hard rejection each time, and then ask again. Only then would she go on a date.