a Trump vs Clinton United States Presidential Election in 2016

[Celt Z]

I should add, Mr. Z has been a naturalized citizen for over a decade, but in this current climate, I worry it may not be enough.

I've never been naive enough to think racism isn't still prevalent, god knows we've run into it enough times in our life together (including at our own wedding, but that was a distant relative my mother invited, so I brushed off his opinion). But we can't "pretend" to be something else. Mr. Z and Li'l Z can't just blend in with the crowd of white males. I don't regret for a second taking my husband's name or the choices I've made, but I've never been worried about it before. I only thing keeping me together is that we live in a pretty solidly blue area, and was so last night. But those Trumps signs that have dotted our neighborhood are going to have me looking over my shoulder for a while.

 

[Frank]

We're not. And I say this with no exaggeration, but I was less scared for my family during Sandy.

I said it partially in jest, but yeah, most.

I can't even imagine what it's like to be in your family's position right now.[DOUBLEPOST=1478696358,1478696149][/DOUBLEPOST]

The alt-right has taken over the US government and all branches.

I think it's been proven today that it isn't alt anything.

 

[TNM]

Hail Skroob!

 

[Bubble181]

I'll just point out that Belgium has great healthcare, good facilities, really lax immigration laws for Westerners, and is always looking for foreigners for a host of high-paying positions in Brussels.

Downside is you have to, you know, come live in Belgium

 

[strawman]

On phone so no links, but Donald's win speech showed a surprising shift towards the center, certainly not enough for many people, but distinctly different than his campaign speeches.

Michigan is still a toss up, but turns out trump doesn't need it. Even the fact that Bill, Hillary, and Obama were on the ground in mi campaigning Monday wasn't enough, and probably should have been spent elsewhere.

There are reports of protesters damaging property, starting street fires, and burning flags.

Hillary is giving a speech at 9:30am, and Donald has already talked to Obama and received his Thursday invitation to visit the White House and meet the transition team.

I wish I could give everyone who is hurting or worried hugs. Not natural hugs, more like "I'm an awkward introvert who only kinda knows how to hug but darn it I'm trying and wish I could make it all better" kind of hugs.[DOUBLEPOST=1478698633,1478698503][/DOUBLEPOST]

I'll just point out that Belgium has great healthcare, good facilities, really lax immigration laws for Westerners, and is always looking for foreigners for a host of high-paying positions in Brussels.

Downside is you have to, you know, come live in Belgium

But fast internet and great cellular service, so you've got that going for you, which is nice.

I'm still not sure that even as a highly paid engineer I could afford to support my family of eleven there, though I have given it a look before just for the experience. America is so isolationist it's hard to raise children that have a broad perspective and world view.

 

[Eriol]

Well, there's always Cape Breton: http://cbiftrumpwins.com/

I heard it started out as somewhat of a joke site, though also not really.

 

[Bubble181]

I'm still not sure that even as a highly paid engineer I could afford to support my family of eleven there, though I have given it a look before just for the experience. America is so isolationist it's hard to raise children that have a broad perspective and world view.

Assuming you have 8 children still under 18, 2 of which have "mild" or "light" learning disabilities or mental problems (I know some of your children have difficulties, I don't know how many or how severe, though....But "average dyslexia" or "light ADHD" is enough to fall into this category), assuming you're in the highest income bracket, you'd be receiving €4101 net per month in child assistance. That's somewhere between 2 and 3 medium-to-high-paying jobs. You'd probably have issues finding affordable housing with a decent commute, admittedly.

 

[GasBandit]

You lied to me

He got PA for chrissakes. Who could have predicted that?!

 

[Bubble181]

Man, people treating it like it's such an enormous landslide surprise. 538 gave Clinton around 65%. That doesn't mean she's a shoe-in. It means there's a 35% chance she won't win. Just like in Europe (I've done the references before), polls underestimated right wing populist turn-out, and overestimated young people's turn-out. And again, this causes dramatic shifts.

I hoped it'd be a clean Clinton win, predicted a Clinton-with-Republican-house-and-Senate win, expected this as a real possibility. Admittedly, his win is bigger than most were expecting, but whether he wins by 1 or by 20 EVs doesn't really matter. And anyone hoping House and Senate Republicans will be "the voice of reason" to "keep him in line" really hasn't been paying attention to the Republicans lately.

 

[Denbrought]

My father's been a journalist for over 30 years. He's always had great respect and admiration for the U.S., a big part of why I was prepped from age 5 to eventually come here alone. I told him last October, before my wedding ceremony, that he shouldn't dismiss Trump, specially if it ended as Trump/Clinton. He said this country was too good to elect him. What a shitty 'I told you so' to get.

I am well aware I'm in an ideological bubble (friends with only about 5 Trump voters), but the sheer terror emanating from all of my non-straight/white friends and partners is very raw. Watching Cabaret two days before the election may not have been the best idea, tomorrow belongs to me is now stuck in my head.

 

[Tress]

I think the most stunning part of all this was how wrong all the prediction models were. I think we just witnessed the death of sampling and the death of exit polls.

 

[Denbrought]

I think the most stunning part of all this was how wrong all the prediction models were. I think we just witnessed the death of sampling and the death of exit polls.

It feels like the exact error Nate Silver talked about when 538 underestimated Trump's chances as the Republican nominee. It's hard to model shame votes.

 

[Anonymous]

I should add, Mr. Z has been a naturalized citizen for over a decade, but in this current climate, I worry it may not be enough.

would have to fraud way to citizen to lose, or commit treason. his citizenship is okey

 

[Bubble181]

Polling has consistently under-valued extreme right wing parties in Europe for decades - literally. The Flemish Bloc won a quite spectacular victory back in '91 getting about 20% of the vote, and they were being polled at around 5%. Oopsie.
On one hand, you've got people who don't dare say they're voting that way because of shame/social pressure, on the other hand, people who tend to vote for right wing populists also tend to be the ones who are least likely to take part in polls and sampling; there's studies mapping these things together. Even now, though, it remains hard to separate "undecided because I genuinely care" from "undecided because screw it all" voters.

 

[Tinwhistler]

I'll just point out that Belgium has great healthcare, good facilities, really lax immigration laws for Westerners, and is always looking for foreigners for a host of high-paying positions in Brussels.

Downside is you have to, you know, come live in Belgium

Yeah, but y'alls beers are awesome

 

[Adam]

I wanted to post something along the lines of "It's not that bad." and I firmly agree with that however I think there's a cooling off period where we just need to mourn the results.

 

[sixpackshaker]

View attachment 22495

Is Lithuania still independent?

I guess that is a question for January.

 

[Bubble181]

Is Lithuania still independent?

I guess that is a question for January.

If Trump actually puts into practice what he said during the campaign season, the Baltic states among others will definitely be in danger and scared. I can't believe our right wing hawks now actually have a fair point about needing to invest billions in new jet fighters. We might need them.

 

[Celt Z]

He got PA for chrissakes. Who could have predicted that?!

I figured it was a given. My dad is stuck in Central PA right now and he said everyone around him is convinced Trump is going to get rid of all immigrants and bring back coal. This is also the area that around 2000 was named the Whitest Town in America, and the locals were proud of it. (And for funny contrast, I've also lived in the town that was named Most Diverse in America a few times. It was not in PA.)

would have to fraud way to citizen to lose, or commit treason. his citizenship is okey

Normally I'd agree with this, but since he's part of a group that is one of the scapegoats for Trump's presidency, I'm not so certain anymore. Some of the racism we've experienced in the past didn't care that he's actually Taiwanese, or bothered to differentiate.

Most of us here have never had to get naturalized (obviously, Denbrought knows what goes on), but it's not always what we think. Back when my husband and my mother-in-law were jumping through all the hoops to get legally naturalized, she went in for her one-on-one interview the afternoon before a holiday weekend. The interviewer was more interested in leaving early, so instead of asking the questions she was supposed to ask, she asks my MIL, "Have you ever lied about being an American citizen?". My MIL says no, and the interviewer goes, "Why not?". My MIL, confused why she would lie, said she didn't understand why she would, and the interviewer stopped right there, said my MIL doesn't understand English (which is a bold-faced lie, because she speaks very well, albeit with a slight accent), and rejects her citizenship request. It took over a year and the intervention of a state politician to get everything straightened out.

 

[GasBandit]

 

[Frank]

I hate how they always leave off the last part of that speech.

 

[Denbrought]

Not putting this in the funny thread because it's a monologue: The Late Show - Stephen Tries To Make Sense Of All This

Most of us here have never had to get naturalized (obviously, Denbrought knows what goes on), but it's not always what we think. Back when my husband and my mother-in-law were jumping through all the hoops to get legally naturalized, she went in for her one-on-one interview the afternoon before a holiday weekend. The interviewer was more interested in leaving early, so instead of asking the questions she was supposed to ask, she asks my MIL, "Have you ever lied about being an American citizen?". My MIL says no, and the interviewer goes, "Why not?". My MIL, confused why she would lie, said she didn't understand why she would, and the interviewer stopped right there, said my MIL doesn't understand English (which is a bold-faced lie, because she speaks very well, albeit with a slight accent), and rejects her citizenship request. It took over a year and the intervention of a state politician to get everything straightened out.

That is fucked up.

This is the country that taught me to hate bureaucrats, and I come from a country with a lot more red tape.

 

[@Li3n]

You know. I wonder how many trump supporters have read atlas shrugged. I wonder if they understand what would actually happen if atlas did shrug?

Why, they'd all get invited to the Gulch, of course.

 

[ScytheRexx]

I woke up and my wife was crying, so I know who won.

There is nothing I can do. Life goes on. I can only pray that Trump not only does not go through with 80% of his promises, but that he gives over most administrative issues to Pence. Also hope beyond hope he keeps the Affordable Care Act, even though that seems unlikely, since my wife's job will be hurt hard by it being repealed.

We will see what happens over the next 4 years, and hope the now majority republican government does not just abolish elections and turn us into a Trump dictatorship.

 

[Bubble181]

Also hope beyond hope he keeps the Affordable Care Act, even though that seems unlikely, since my wife's job will be hurt hard by it being repealed.

Rand Paul: ‘We’re going to spend the first month passing the repeal of Obama regulations’

--> I very, very highly doubt it. ACA will probably be one of the first to fall. People wanted "less government", they'll get "less government". The poor will suffer, civil service will suffer, and rich white men will profit.

 

[Anonymous]

I figured it was a given. My dad is stuck in Central PA right now and he said everyone around him is convinced Trump is going to get rid of all immigrants and bring back coal. This is also the area that around 2000 was named the Whitest Town in America, and the locals were proud of it. (And for funny contrast, I've also lived in the town that was named Most Diverse in America a few times. It was not in PA.)



Normally I'd agree with this, but since he's part of a group that is one of the scapegoats for Trump's presidency, I'm not so certain anymore. Some of the racism we've experienced in the past didn't care that he's actually Taiwanese, or bothered to differentiate.

Most of us here have never had to get naturalized (obviously, Denbrought knows what goes on), but it's not always what we think. Back when my husband and my mother-in-law were jumping through all the hoops to get legally naturalized, she went in for her one-on-one interview the afternoon before a holiday weekend. The interviewer was more interested in leaving early, so instead of asking the questions she was supposed to ask, she asks my MIL, "Have you ever lied about being an American citizen?". My MIL says no, and the interviewer goes, "Why not?". My MIL, confused why she would lie, said she didn't understand why she would, and the interviewer stopped right there, said my MIL doesn't understand English (which is a bold-faced lie, because she speaks very well, albeit with a slight accent), and rejects her citizenship request. It took over a year and the intervention of a state politician to get everything straightened out.

Bad eggs in INS ICE DHS but very very hard to lose citizenship after getting

 

[Dave]

I can only pray that Trump not only does not go through with 80% of his promises, but that he gives over most administrative issues to Pence.

No. Just hell no. Pence believes in conversion therapy for LGBT people, is anti-science, and wants to defund Planned Parenthood. Trump is not nearly as bad socially as this ass clown.

 

[ScytheRexx]

No. Just hell no. Pence believes in conversion therapy for LGBT people, is anti-science, and wants to defund Planned Parenthood. Trump is not nearly as bad socially as this ass clown.

Maybe you are right, I barely know Pence, but I am still in shock about Trump. I really don't want either of them, but I more then anything don't want Donald Trump to get insulted by someone overseas and start a damn war over it.

 

[PatrThom]

I woke up and my wife was crying, so I know who won.

I had to fight to get mine to come to bed before midnight, and then when I woke to her crying once at 2 and once at 4, I figured it out as well.

--Patrick

 

[MindDetective]

I'll just point out that Belgium has great healthcare, good facilities, really lax immigration laws for Westerners, and is always looking for foreigners for a host of high-paying positions in Brussels.

Downside is you have to, you know, come live in Belgium

Got any connections to the psychology department of the local university? :-p

 

[Celt Z]

Bad eggs in INS ICE DHS but very very hard to lose citizenship after getting

I'm less worried about the loss of citizenship and more concerned about the internal discrimination. Like I said above, it's not like we can "blend in". Some of Trump's proposed legislation involves supporting those who wish to discriminate if it goes against their own "moral conviction". Not to mention the anti-China sentiment that came up in the debates. Even Bill O'Reilly's recent "humor" piece goes on to emphasize the "otherness" of Chinatown and any Asian culture. There are a lot of people who still don't see them as legitimate Americans. And Trump has made no secret about how we should feel about "non-legitimate Americans".

Though I would hope it would never come to this, it wouldn't be the first time we've rounded up our own citizens or forced them out of their homes/community "just in case" they MIGHT have ties to country we don't like. Hell, all we need is a few locals to let us know we "don't belong here". That'll be fun.

 

[Denbrought]

Not like this is unexpected, and it might be fake, but it seems like the right kind of tire for this fire.

 

[ScytheRexx]

Honestly, thinking more about it, my fears are less about Trump then about what him being elected means. It means there are a lot of people out there that agree with him. That agree about his feelings on minorities, about his feelings on foriegn countries, about other religions. About how to treat women.

It means there is a substantial amount of people that are now EMBOLDENED by this win.

Did you know that once Brexit passed, hate crimes in England rose 58%? These are people that, because they felt they were the small minority in the social consciousness refrained from doing hate crimes, and once they felt they "won" and their outlook was legitimized, they could just do whatever they wanted to beat up those "foreigners". It took weeks for things to die back down to normal levels when people started to realize that just voting to leave the EU does not mean you get to be a dick to minorities. It was still the same government.

Now imagine what a lot of people here are going to do now that their "values" are seen as justified and popular? Now that the government is filled with people that agree with them? This is scary.

 

[IronBrig4]

I was profoundly disappointed and quite appalled at this election. But there was no conspiracy. The DNC put forth a candidate who was utterly unlikable while the GOP found someone who, despite his utter unsuitability and lack of common decency, tapped into white, working-class anxiety. It's fortunate that the GOP is practically in revolt against Trump, and hopefully the establishment Republicans will work with Democrats to curb Trump's insanity.

And when the rural working-class whites who put Trump into office continue to suffer, it's on them. Their jobs will continue to leave, their husbands will continue to beat their wives, and their towns will continue to crumble. When the rubes dive into a pile of tainted heroin and eat their pistols, I won't feel sorry for them.

 

[Tiger Tsang]

I just wonder how long until they'll try and take their failed Kansas experiment nationwide.