Hollywoo Stars and Celebrities: Who's sexually harassing? Who's sexually harassed? Let's find out!

figmentPez

Staff member
Because one case gets overreacted to does not invalidate every other case. Rather, like any and all accusations, they must be investigated and weighed under their own merit. It's a lot more work, but that's life, or at least how life should be.
Investigations are difficult, and it's not big stars I worry about being taken down unfairly, it's the shadow this might have on smaller businesses, churches, etc. Not that I'm by any means sad that women are able to come forward about this stuff, but I honestly am worried that the "easiest" route will still be taken, it will just flip from automatically assuming the accusations are false, to automatically assuming that they are true, sometimes to the point of pushing people out of positions in an attempt to preempt accusations because of stereotypes.

At my church one of our previous youth directors was accused of having porn on his church computer (not like child porn, or anything illegal, just immoral in the eyes of the congregation). No investigation happened. He was just asked to move on. As far as I know no one knows if he actually did anything wrong, and adults involved do know that they'd heard some of the youth saying they wanted to get rid of him because he wasn't doing things the way they liked. (The bubble-suburb produces some highly entitled brats of children, and I've heard teenagers threaten to make false allegations.) The youth director wasn't fired, exactly, things were just arranged for him to find another job.

Not long after that, one of the adults, who had worked with the youth since before I was at the church, stopped volunteering. From what I can gather, he was asked to stop working with the youth simply because he's never married, and because he's a single man that makes it easier for there to be scandal. I know at least a half-dozen men and women who have maintained friendships with him since their high school days. I've never even heard a hint of anything inappropriate, and I know a lot of people from both genders who love and trust him. Still, as best I know, it was strongly suggested that he stop volunteering, because it looks wrong for a retired single man who never married or had kids to be working with high schoolers. That's it, just because of stereotypes and fears.

If things are going to change, I want them to change for the better, and not just to another form of bad. I'm not going to argue if it's "better" for a "few" scapegoats to sacrificed than for vicitims to not come forward at all, because I don't want to accept that it has to be one way or the other, but from what I've seen there is a very real danger of that being exactly what happens, because I've seen that already happening. Those two stories are from my church, because I know people there who can tell me enough to know that these stories are reasonably accurate, but I've heard similar stories from schools, businesses, and other places around here. People still want to sweep such accusations under the rug, and that seems to be what happens, a lot.
 
Investigations are difficult
But worthwhile. I'm cutting the rest of what you posted because it doesn't really have anything to do with the point of mine you quoted. If you want things to get better, you have to put in the work. You can't counter something with a hypothetical extreme in the opposite direction. Both are bad, use your heads, figure it out.
 

figmentPez

Staff member
But worthwhile. I'm cutting the rest of what you posted because it doesn't really have anything to do with the point of mine you quoted. If you want things to get better, you have to put in the work. You can't counter something with a hypothetical extreme in the opposite direction. Both are bad, use your heads, figure it out.
Yes, of course they're worthwhile, which is why we need to demand investigations before action, which doesn't seem to be the case for Garrison Keillor. Unless there's something I missed, one woman came forward with an accusation, and he was fired and his name scrubbed from any show ever associated with him. I'm hoping there's more reason to it than "well, she says it was harassment, he says it was an accident". If we don't speak up when overreactions occur, then we're rewarding the behavior. They react this way because they want the good reputation that comes with it, and if they can get that good reputation the lazy way, then others will follow along and do the same thing.

And it's not a "hypothetical extreme" it's something that really has happened. People really do lose their jobs and reputations over accusations with no investigation, and I don't want to see it become commonplace.
 
Geraldo Rivera is tweeting that sexual misconduct accusations should be made in a timely fashion.

Methinks thou doth protest too much Mr. Rivera.
 
Yes, of course they're worthwhile, which is why we need to demand investigations before action, which doesn't seem to be the case for Garrison Keillor. Unless there's something I missed, one woman came forward with an accusation, and he was fired and his name scrubbed from any show ever associated with him. I'm hoping there's more reason to it than "well, she says it was harassment, he says it was an accident". If we don't speak up when overreactions occur, then we're rewarding the behavior. They react this way because they want the good reputation that comes with it, and if they can get that good reputation the lazy way, then others will follow along and do the same thing.

And it's not a "hypothetical extreme" it's something that really has happened. People really do lose their jobs and reputations over accusations with no investigation, and I don't want to see it become commonplace.


like any and all accusations, they must be investigated and weighed under their own merit.
 
Geraldo Rivera is tweeting that sexual misconduct accusations should be made in a timely fashion.

Methinks thou doth protest too much Mr. Rivera.
Which is "funny", because there's 1991 video of Bette Midler telling that he drugged and assaulted her at an interview, and she had to laugh it off because no one wanted to back her up at the time.
Odds are pretty high she wasn't the first or the last.
 
Which is "funny", because there's 1991 video of Bette Midler telling that he drugged and assaulted her at an interview, and she had to laugh it off because no one wanted to back her up at the time.
Odds are pretty high she wasn't the first or the last.
Oh, there you go. His open secret is already open. It's 'hilarious'. You can, almost to man, tell who's going to be the next closet creaked open by how much they bitch and moan publicly.
 
That video is so stupid. Gee, I wonder why an action by someone a person likes would be seen favorably vs that same action by a stranger. Guess it's just an unsolvable mystery.

EDIT: Before anyone says it, I know the video is meant to be humorous, but it comes off as if written by a moron and I take umbrage with the video's perspective that women approaching things this way is some shallow or senseless behavior, when it's expected social behavior. If I ask for my wife's car keys, that's normal. If some rando asks for her car keys, that's weird. "But she didn't get upset when the first guy asked her cause she likes him. Women just don't make sense!" -_-
 
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There's a part of me that feels like the success of Trump was the straw that broke the camel's back as far as this goes. Wishful thinking, I know. But since he recently tried to backtrack on his "pussy-grabbing" quote, I think he's starting to sweat.
There's also a part of me that thinks they're trying to build a much stronger case against him, such as treason, that he can't slime his way out of, and carries a much heavier sentence, is the only reason he hasn't been nailed for assault.
 
This country has become so stupidly partisan that NOTHING, and I truly mean NOTHING, will lead to Trump facing any consequences for ANYTHING while Republicans control Congress. He could murder someone, be caught in the middle of the act on camera, and the conservatives of this country will just call it “fake” and complain about Benghazi.
 
This country has become so stupidly partisan that NOTHING, and I truly mean NOTHING, will lead to Trump facing any consequences for ANYTHING while Republicans control Congress. He could murder someone, be caught in the middle of the act on camera, and the conservatives of this country will just call it “fake” and complain about Benghazi.
You mean, the only time he wasn't lying was when he said he could shoot someone on 5th Avenue?

Crazy.
 

fade

Staff member
I'm having difficulty with the Hoda Kotb/Matt Lauer "equivalence". It's creepy, and maybe there's something there that needs some disciplinary action. But that's not even in the same ballpark as taking advantage of an underling in a workplace environment. Kotb has no power in this situation. Okay, maybe a little of the "well we won't put you on TV, then variety", but that's not the same as "I will invoke literal millenia of institutionalized hate to end your career if you don't fuck me".
 
Yes, of course they're worthwhile, which is why we need to demand investigations before action, which doesn't seem to be the case for Garrison Keillor. Unless there's something I missed, one woman came forward with an accusation.
You missed quite a lot.

In the statement from MPR (directly linked to in the article posted here):
Last month, MPR was notified of the allegations which relate to Mr. Keillor's conduct while he was responsible for the production of A Prairie Home Companion (APHC). MPR President Jon McTaggart immediately informed the MPR Board Chair, and a special Board committee was appointed to provide oversight and ongoing counsel. In addition, MPR retained an outside law firm to conduct an independent investigation of the allegations
At least a full month (the statement's from the end of November, so sometime in October) of time passed before their decision.

They devoted internal resources to the issue.

They brought in outside investigators.
 

figmentPez

Staff member
You missed quite a lot.

In the statement from MPR (directly linked to in the article posted here):


At least a full month (the statement's from the end of November, so sometime in October) of time passed before their decision.

They devoted internal resources to the issue.

They brought in outside investigators.
My aplogies, most articles are not mentioning that investigation, and I misread the linked article I read it as that the investigations were done after firing Keillor, because I missed the mention of a timetable ("last month") and there's no mention of any findings of the investigation. Generally firings are done after investigations have findings to report, and no one is reporting on the findings because the investigation is ongoing. If Keillor had been merely suspended, or they'd mentioned that what had already been found were serious, or if charges were going to be filed or anything, I'd not have been confused by the issue. However, they're completely scrubbing his name from their company, and they haven't even publicly said that anything has been found or substantiated. It just struck me as backwards to take such serious action, but not be able to say "we have reason".
 
However, they're completely scrubbing his name from their company, and they haven't even publicly said that anything has been found or substantiated. It just struck me as backwards to take such serious action, but not be able to say "we have reason".
It does look like the investigation is ongoing - I think it's because they're digging deeper, either into Keillor himself, or maybe following leads they uncovered that point to other people or similar issues. Though I'm speculating there.

I think it's safe to say, though, that given the involvement of outside lawyers and their internal committee, they have well documented reasons to back up their action.
 

fade

Staff member
Yeah, I've got a feeling NPR/MPR wouldn't toss Keillor under the bus without a good reason. I'm betting they have more on him than they're revealing. Also, I can definitely see him doing the whole Uncle Touchy thing. Pleasant in public, Attack on Titan grin in private.
 
by someone a person likes would be seen favorably vs that same action by a stranger.

But the difference isn't between someone you like and a stranger... it's between someone you like and someone you don't. Which is still understandable, even if not to the extent shown in the video (the overreaction being the actual point, even though too many people seem not to get that). Frankly i don't see why you felt the need to label the one she doesn't like "a stranger".
 
But the difference isn't between someone you like and a stranger... it's between someone you like and someone you don't. Which is still understandable, even if not to the extent shown in the video (the overreaction being the actual point, even though too many people seem not to get that). Frankly i don't see why you felt the need to label the one she doesn't like "a stranger".
I was directly referring to the video.
 
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