General Empyrion Thread
- Thread starter GasBandit
- Start date
Took my micro-HV my first run-in with an alien POI. It did not go well. Finally learned what happens when you die. Deleted that game to start over since 8 is coming out ASAP anyway (and also because when I restarted it tried to drop my escape pod right on top of a red drone base...NOPE).
I asked this in chat, but figured I will here as well. Now that the new PSUs are installed, does that mean we’re back up to full CPU and RAM speeds? Also something I didn’t ask in chat—is this game running on a bare metal Windows install, or is it in a VM (ESXi or something)?
—Patrick
I asked this in chat, but figured I will here as well. Now that the new PSUs are installed, does that mean we’re back up to full CPU and RAM speeds? Also something I didn’t ask in chat—is this game running on a bare metal Windows install, or is it in a VM (ESXi or something)?
—Patrick
GasBandit
Staff member
Trying to get the server updated now, before I go in to work. It goes slow though because right now work's internet is only 16 mbit down >_< (but it's 16mbit up, too, which is the part that usually counts for hosting/servers). Wish we'd hurry up with that darn fiber upgrade, but there isn't even a timetable yet. Nnnghh!
Yes, we're back to full power. Server is running Windows Server 2016 standard, no virtualization as of this moment.
Yes, we're back to full power. Server is running Windows Server 2016 standard, no virtualization as of this moment.
GasBandit
Staff member
Oh, and don't forget to VOTE!
https://empyrion-servers.com/server/21535/
I'd like to try and get us above Venatus Australia while everybody's down for server updates
https://empyrion-servers.com/server/21535/
I'd like to try and get us above Venatus Australia while everybody's down for server updates
Paragon Expanse (one of the servers I was looking at when I first got tired of Noodle's bs) has some kind of mod that auto-awards some random item when you vote. I got some pentaxid the one and only time i voted to see how the mechanic worked.
GasBandit
Staff member
Yeah, the API is there for people to do that... but all the servers that do it automatically keep the method they use a closely guarded secret. Right now, I have to do it manually
When somebody tells me they voted, I go check the API output to see if they did, then throw a 6000 credit money card in their inventory.OMG. I just discovered Empyrion mods are written in .NET!
I could totally write mods for this game.
I could totally write mods for this game.
GasBandit
Staff member
Well, I'd LOVE a mod that rewards voters automatically, if you have the time and inclination
I'm already looking into it. Found the sample mods on github, and it doesn't look super complicated. I'll look at the voting api next to see how I get hooked into it. I won't have a bunch of time to work on it at work (we're in the middle of a billable-hours sprint) or this weekend (due to familial conflicts) but I might be able to scrounge something up by next week.
Wanna private message me your api key for the voting server, @GasBandit ?
It looks hecka stupid simple to implement. Learning the interface to stuff a gift into someone's inventory will be the complicated part. I'll probably stick with the 6000 credit default for now, but end up writing something you can customize so that the end user can get some kind of randomized reward.
It looks hecka stupid simple to implement. Learning the interface to stuff a gift into someone's inventory will be the complicated part. I'll probably stick with the 6000 credit default for now, but end up writing something you can customize so that the end user can get some kind of randomized reward.
GasBandit
Staff member
Sent.
API testing successfully completed. Sent you results. It's easy to implement. I guess now I need to dig into the game classes and learn how to stuff items into inventory
The only way I could see it persisting is if they saved the virtual backpack inventory into a file of some kind that is not touched by updates, and keyed it off of the users steam id
GasBandit
Staff member
Which is what I thought they did, but I couldn't find the inventory file to copy it over, so I just updated the server installation in-place and hoped. For naught, apparently.
GasBandit
Staff member
And remember, folks, if you are having trouble finding a basic element (for example, silicon), you can now convert crushed rock to iron/copper/silicon ore at a 15:1 ratio. I don't know if the suit constructor does that though, you might need the place-able survival constructor to do it.
mod complete and emailed to Gas 
GasBandit
Staff member
In addition to voting for the server, if you guys wanted to upvote this reddit post, it'd also help with visibility for the server.
GasBandit
Staff member
I've implemented CB:SURVIVAL. Basically, this is a survival/emergency care package. Anyone needing a little bit of a jump start, or who, say, gets shot down on the moon and has no means of rescue, can use this command ONCE (and only ONCE, ever, unless I manually reset them) to receive a set of T1 tools, a pistol, pistol ammo, food, oxygen, a portable constructor, a mobile heater/cooler, and 100-200 of the basic ingots plus some promethium.
Also, it looks like meteors are not falling on akua to replace what we've mined, and that's a problem I'll have to look into today, but it's gonna be a busy day at work, so I might not be able to until tonight. Until then... well... we've completely mined out the planet for promethium except for two deposits >_< sooo I guess we'll be depending on the NPC traders for that for a short bit.
Also, it looks like meteors are not falling on akua to replace what we've mined, and that's a problem I'll have to look into today, but it's gonna be a busy day at work, so I might not be able to until tonight. Until then... well... we've completely mined out the planet for promethium except for two deposits >_< sooo I guess we'll be depending on the NPC traders for that for a short bit.
I don't think a server should be allowed to go up in rank while it OFFLINE, as that one has been for the past TWENTY FOUR HOURS >_<
Reading through the bug reports for Alpha 8 is getting me a little concerned about Eleon's dedication to fixing real problems. HVs still sink like a rock whenever you transition between deep water/deep lake and any other water biome, or if you're on shallow water, or if you're anything other than exceptionally careful when approaching the water, and you have to travel at less than full speed (how much less seems to depend on ping) to keep it from sinking randomly. Their response? "You're supposed to be able to force an HV under water if you use an extreme enough angle."
WTF?!
WTF?!
@PatrThom The damage discussion can be a bit lengthy, and I'm not 100% certain I really understand all of the nuances, but here's what I got.
There are two types of damage dealt by weapons, point-of-impact damage (which I'm just going to call impact), and splash damage. Weapons that deal impact include mainly your standard rifled-projectile ammo - your cannon turret, minigun turret, and sentry gun III (player); which fire 30mm rounds, 15mm rounds, and projectile rifle rounds, respectively - and handheld projectile weapons. Weapons that deal splash damage include rocket launchers, artillery, and plasma cannons. I don't know what category lasers fall into, or if they have their own category (personally, I'd treat them like beam weapons, where if they "get through" the armor, they do damage to every block behind it until they hit air/vacuum).
Impact damage relies entirely upon armor rating and/or hit points to determine whether or not a block is destroyed - and they will always have to destroy any armor blocks between themselves and their target individually. If you know you're only going to be going against enemies armed with impact weapons you can get away with a relatively small ship with one or two layers of "armor" on the outside (steel, heavy steel, combat steel for ships or concrete, armored concrete for bases). For more heavily armed targets (higher number of turrets) you want to increase the number of layers. I go with 2 layers of armor per 4 enemy weapons (turrets or guns), never exceeding 9 layers on SV/HV and that seems to do the trick, but flight performance obviously suffers as weight increases.
Splash damage occurs in 3D in this game, as opposed to what some of us seem to have been expecting, where a splash-causing munition would hit the outer armor and do 2D splash along that layer of armor until that layer was destroyed. This, I believe, accounts for those "phasing" shots that took out internal systems without killing the armor. If you know you're going to be going up against a target that deals splash damage (or if you can't guarantee that you won't be), it behooves you greatly to put a couple of layers of baffling between your external hull and your internal systems. Splash damage appears to be calculated as a percentage of total damage remaining, after subtracting some hit point or armor rating of the block struck by the munition (impact location) from the overall maximum damage of that munition, with damage applied equally to all blocks behind the impact location within a set range depending upon the weapon used. If you put a layer of empty space between two layers of armor, the game appears to recalculate splash starting with the damage of the first non-blank space as the starting damage.
I'm going to make up random BS numbers for this because I don't want to log in and burn food just to sit there while I type out a big long post, so bear with me please. If we assume that the munition that struck the point of impact in the example above had a starting damage of 1800, with a remaining damage potential of 800 points after taking the combat steel block's armor rating and/or hp into account, with a damage radius of 10, your RCS block is going to take damage, even though it's 7 spaces behind the point of impact and completely covered in steel and combat steel that hasn't been destroyed.
Each time the damage gets to a new point of impact it has to redo that damage calculation, so our original 1800, which was reduced to 800 points of splash damage, gets further reduced by a new calculation using the armor rating and/or hp of the steel block, so anything behind that block takes significantly less damage than in the non-baffled example.
What I don't know, and what even very experienced players on the Empyrion forums seem to be unclear on, is what that calculation is and/or entails. Eleon seems to be fairly close-lipped about actual formulas, probably because it's alpha, and they can be tweaking them constantly still.
There are two types of damage dealt by weapons, point-of-impact damage (which I'm just going to call impact), and splash damage. Weapons that deal impact include mainly your standard rifled-projectile ammo - your cannon turret, minigun turret, and sentry gun III (player); which fire 30mm rounds, 15mm rounds, and projectile rifle rounds, respectively - and handheld projectile weapons. Weapons that deal splash damage include rocket launchers, artillery, and plasma cannons. I don't know what category lasers fall into, or if they have their own category (personally, I'd treat them like beam weapons, where if they "get through" the armor, they do damage to every block behind it until they hit air/vacuum).
Impact damage relies entirely upon armor rating and/or hit points to determine whether or not a block is destroyed - and they will always have to destroy any armor blocks between themselves and their target individually. If you know you're only going to be going against enemies armed with impact weapons you can get away with a relatively small ship with one or two layers of "armor" on the outside (steel, heavy steel, combat steel for ships or concrete, armored concrete for bases). For more heavily armed targets (higher number of turrets) you want to increase the number of layers. I go with 2 layers of armor per 4 enemy weapons (turrets or guns), never exceeding 9 layers on SV/HV and that seems to do the trick, but flight performance obviously suffers as weight increases.
Splash damage occurs in 3D in this game, as opposed to what some of us seem to have been expecting, where a splash-causing munition would hit the outer armor and do 2D splash along that layer of armor until that layer was destroyed. This, I believe, accounts for those "phasing" shots that took out internal systems without killing the armor. If you know you're going to be going up against a target that deals splash damage (or if you can't guarantee that you won't be), it behooves you greatly to put a couple of layers of baffling between your external hull and your internal systems. Splash damage appears to be calculated as a percentage of total damage remaining, after subtracting some hit point or armor rating of the block struck by the munition (impact location) from the overall maximum damage of that munition, with damage applied equally to all blocks behind the impact location within a set range depending upon the weapon used. If you put a layer of empty space between two layers of armor, the game appears to recalculate splash starting with the damage of the first non-blank space as the starting damage.
Code:
An example of a non-baffled ship looks somewhat like this:
[steel][steel][steel][steel][steel][steel][steel][combat steel]
<RCS> [steel][steel][steel][steel][steel][steel][combat steel]<- Point of Impact
[steel][steel][steel][steel][steel][steel][steel][combat steel]
Code:
A baffled ship might look something like this:
[steel][steel][steel]{baffle}[steel]{baffle}[steel][combat steel]
<RCS> [steel][steel]{baffle}<- Tertiary Point of Impact [steel]{baffle}<- Secondary Point of Impact [steel][combat steel]<- Point of Impact
[steel][steel][steel]{baffle}[steel][baffle}[steel][combat steel]What I don't know, and what even very experienced players on the Empyrion forums seem to be unclear on, is what that calculation is and/or entails. Eleon seems to be fairly close-lipped about actual formulas, probably because it's alpha, and they can be tweaking them constantly still.
It's amazing sometimes how quickly opinions can change. After playing around with this particular glitch, it seems to rely extremely heavily upon ping/latency. When my ping is above 100, I'm constantly at risk of sinking, with or without warning, no matter the water biome. When my ping is less than 90, it only occurs in extreme circumstances, like when diving down a steep incline toward the water, which I suppose should be possible. And yes, I know there's a 12ms gap in those examples, but my ping hasn't fallen inside that range yet.
GasBandit
Staff member
Just a couple corrections - "Phasing" shots is different from what happens due to splash damage. Splash damage in this game is rarely more than a block or two in radius, but it ignores line of sight.
"Phasing" shots come from janky netcode. If a missile is closing in on you at 114m/s and you suddenly reverse direction so that you are not where the game's predictive algorithm thinks you are, and then it "moves" its copy of you to where you are, you can basically be moved in such a way that the updated position of your ship is now around where the missile is, and the missile then impacts on something inside your ship - having basically just bypassed your armor and whatever else was between the missile and what it hit.
The other thing is, there's two kinds of damage - direct damage (what Gared calls "impact" damage) and splash damage, but there's also two type of damage delivery - hitscan and projectile.
Pistols, Rifles, miniguns, 15mm gatling guns and minigun turrets, and 30mm turrets all fire "hitscan" shots, which means that a hit or a miss is calculated instantly upon firing, and there is no travel time to the target (although the game will also draw in a "tracer" that does take time to travel and erroneously gets people to think they need to "lead" with hitscan weapons). Hitscan weapons are generally much more useful for hitting moving targets at a distance, because they do not need to lead, and cannot be "jinked" by changing direction of travel.
Projectile weapons, however, create a physical entity in the game which travels in the direction it was originally fired, and in the case of homing missiles, will attempt to turn to strike what the reticle was on when they were fired. Flak, Rocket, railgun, pulse laser, artillery, and plasma/ion weapons all fire "projectiles" with travel times and there for DO need to be "led" ahead of a moving target, and can be jinked by the target changing its direction of movement between the time of firing and the time it takes to travel to the target.
The advantage of hitscan weapons is balanced by the fact that they are all comparatively low damage, generally do poor damage vs armor blocks (especially combat steel) and do not do splash damage.
As things stand in the game, the most damaging direct damage comes from Flak (which, counterintuitively, has no splash damage, really, they should be called something like 88mm cannon or something), and the most splash damage comes from artillery turrets (which are extremely slow to fire, and have extremely slow projectile speed, so against anything that is moving they are nearly completely useless). This is also why most people use homing missiles exclusively - they do decent direct damage, good splash damage, and while their travel time is long, they turn to track whatever block/device the targeting reticle was on when they were fired. They can still miss, though, because it's possible to dodge around them faster than they can turn, or outrun them.
FURTHERMORE, even more headscratchingly, splash damage is calculated in blocks, not in meters. So, if you fire homing missiles and hit the hull of a CV, they will damage all blocks and devices within a 2.5 meter radius, but if you hit an SV, it they will damage all blocks in a 1 meter radius.
"Phasing" shots come from janky netcode. If a missile is closing in on you at 114m/s and you suddenly reverse direction so that you are not where the game's predictive algorithm thinks you are, and then it "moves" its copy of you to where you are, you can basically be moved in such a way that the updated position of your ship is now around where the missile is, and the missile then impacts on something inside your ship - having basically just bypassed your armor and whatever else was between the missile and what it hit.
The other thing is, there's two kinds of damage - direct damage (what Gared calls "impact" damage) and splash damage, but there's also two type of damage delivery - hitscan and projectile.
Pistols, Rifles, miniguns, 15mm gatling guns and minigun turrets, and 30mm turrets all fire "hitscan" shots, which means that a hit or a miss is calculated instantly upon firing, and there is no travel time to the target (although the game will also draw in a "tracer" that does take time to travel and erroneously gets people to think they need to "lead" with hitscan weapons). Hitscan weapons are generally much more useful for hitting moving targets at a distance, because they do not need to lead, and cannot be "jinked" by changing direction of travel.
Projectile weapons, however, create a physical entity in the game which travels in the direction it was originally fired, and in the case of homing missiles, will attempt to turn to strike what the reticle was on when they were fired. Flak, Rocket, railgun, pulse laser, artillery, and plasma/ion weapons all fire "projectiles" with travel times and there for DO need to be "led" ahead of a moving target, and can be jinked by the target changing its direction of movement between the time of firing and the time it takes to travel to the target.
The advantage of hitscan weapons is balanced by the fact that they are all comparatively low damage, generally do poor damage vs armor blocks (especially combat steel) and do not do splash damage.
As things stand in the game, the most damaging direct damage comes from Flak (which, counterintuitively, has no splash damage, really, they should be called something like 88mm cannon or something), and the most splash damage comes from artillery turrets (which are extremely slow to fire, and have extremely slow projectile speed, so against anything that is moving they are nearly completely useless). This is also why most people use homing missiles exclusively - they do decent direct damage, good splash damage, and while their travel time is long, they turn to track whatever block/device the targeting reticle was on when they were fired. They can still miss, though, because it's possible to dodge around them faster than they can turn, or outrun them.
FURTHERMORE, even more headscratchingly, splash damage is calculated in blocks, not in meters. So, if you fire homing missiles and hit the hull of a CV, they will damage all blocks and devices within a 2.5 meter radius, but if you hit an SV, it they will damage all blocks in a 1 meter radius.
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GasBandit
Staff member
Yeah, for some reason they thought they needed versioning in the client config file.
lolidunno.
GasBandit
Staff member
Apparently Eleon has said in the current experimental patch notes that they're working on new graphics settings specifically in mind for those with older systems. Pinging @AshburnerX . Someday! It's coming!
I don't care if it ends up looking like Minecraft. I WANT IN.
GasBandit
Staff member
Done.