What are you playing?

GasBandit

Staff member
Slay the Spire is a terribly-conceived game around a sadistic premise and I'm completely fucking addicted to it. I hate it so much and I can't stop playing it. There's way too much RNG/luck involved, what you get in the first third of the game often precludes you from winning (if not your choice of initial boons from Neow) and it makes you suffer through an entire run hobbled because if you abandon a run before the first boss you get shit initial boons next time.
 

ElJuski

Staff member
Played that game incessantly for a week a few weeks ago. I disagree about terribly-conceived and sadistic--I see it as a feature, not a bug of the whole rogue thang, and loved the constant adapting required to win.

That being said, I've won maybe like twice. I can see how it could be bothersome, but I was in love the whole time through.
 
Slay the Spire is a terribly-conceived game around a sadistic premise and I'm completely fucking addicted to it. I hate it so much and I can't stop playing it. There's way too much RNG/luck involved, what you get in the first third of the game often precludes you from winning (if not your choice of initial boons from Neow) and it makes you suffer through an entire run hobbled because if you abandon a run before the first boss you get shit initial boons next time.
If you've ever watched some of the top twitch players of that game, like joob, you can note that they more often than not have a successful run, even on the highest difficulties. Which would imply that it's not just rng determining whether you can win.

That said, some of those mini bosses are bullshit!
 

GasBandit

Staff member
The things about archives of other people playing games is they don't record the failures. If I go back and look, I'm sure all I'll find now is wins. And I've won plenty. I'm working on ascension level 4 right now (More elites, deadlier normals, deadlier elites, AND deadlier bosses). That's where the bullshit really starts to get shown for what it is. Yes, it does take skill and planning to win, but bad luck in drops and rewards can torpedo even the most astute strategy.
 
The things about archives of other people playing games is they don't record the failures. If I go back and look, I'm sure all I'll find now is wins. And I've won plenty. I'm working on ascension level 4 right now (More elites, deadlier normals, deadlier elites, AND deadlier bosses). That's where the bullshit really starts to get shown for what it is. Yes, it does take skill and planning to win, but bad luck in drops and rewards can torpedo even the most astute strategy.
Joob streams everything, and even on Ascension 30 he still manages a positive win ratio. Yes, he loses too, sometimes you just have bad luck. But my point isn't to say you are worse than Joobs (who is a spreadsheet keeping madman) but to say that the game is winnable beyond just getting lucky with rng.

In theory, I can't get past Ascension 2
 

GasBandit

Staff member
Joob streams everything, and even on Ascension 30 he still manages a positive win ratio. Yes, he loses too, sometimes you just have bad luck. But my point isn't to say you are worse than Joobs (who is a spreadsheet keeping madman) but to say that the game is winnable beyond just getting lucky with rng.

In theory, I can't get past Ascension 2
That actually just speaks to my point. A spreadsheet-keeping madman with the ultra-attentive attention to detail can still lose despite not making any calculated mistakes. It is possible to play perfectly and still lose because the RNG decides you don't get to win this time. For those of us who are NOT spreadsheet-keeping madmen, that just means it happens all the more.

It un-games the game. Imagine if, any game you ever play, from Command and Conquer to Zelda to God of War, had you get to the very last boss and then flip a coin to decide whether you even get to face the boss at all, or just have an immediate game over. And if you aren't a spreadsheet-keeping maniac, it's more like, roll a die and any roll 5 or less is instant game over, 6 means you get to try the boss. Any game with a chance to make you lose through no fault of your own isn't a game, it's rigged. Though, I'm sure casino owners will disagree with me. But I don't play those games, either.
 

figmentPez

Staff member
That's my issue with a lot of procedurally generated games (even Klondike Solitare). They rely on RNG to provide a balanced game. It's one of the reasons why the single-player content in Hearthstone wasn't enough to keep me around. It doesn't matter much to me if a smart player can have a 10% better average winrate over a mediocre player, if 25% of the time all players are presented with something completely unwinnable because of RNG.
 
That actually just speaks to my point. A spreadsheet-keeping madman with the ultra-attentive attention to detail can still lose despite not making any calculated mistakes. It is possible to play perfectly and still lose because the RNG decides you don't get to win this time. For those of us who are NOT spreadsheet-keeping madmen, that just means it happens all the more.

It un-games the game. Imagine if, any game you ever play, from Command and Conquer to Zelda to God of War, had you get to the very last boss and then flip a coin to decide whether you even get to face the boss at all, or just have an immediate game over. And if you aren't a spreadsheet-keeping maniac, it's more like, roll a die and any roll 5 or less is instant game over, 6 means you get to try the boss. Any game with a chance to make you lose through no fault of your own isn't a game, it's rigged. Though, I'm sure casino owners will disagree with me. But I don't play those games, either.
I disagree, to a point. Yes, it is possible that rng fucks you and you lose through no fault of your own, but that is not the same as a game being rigged. My instinct is to bring up blood bowl, because that's the game with random chance I play the most, but so as not to do the thing, let's talk poker instead.

Poker, and any card game, is going to have a lot of randomness involved. It is possible to lose any given hand simply because of luck of the draw. But if it was completely random, you wouldn't see the same champions and winners over and over. It's possible to be very good at poker, and yes, those very good players still sometimes lose, but they still win more often than not because of their skill.

The same applies to slay the spire, which is not like Zelda or the other games you mentioned because it's intended to be played over and over. The game isn't one run, it's several, and as your strategy improves and you learn to overcome the randomness, you should see yourself winning more, whereas if it was all random there would be no pattern at all.
 
The trouble (if you can call it that) with designing games that are winnable every time (when played correctly) is that the Spreadsheet-Keeping Madmen will eventually figure out how to win your game every single time. This leads to a situation where SKMs the world over whine about how "...this game is too easy, it's no longer a challenge. What a waste of time," and game designers end up essentially forced to graft in situations where you just can't win so that even the SKMs will lose from time to time and feel like they are being sufficiently challenged. But yes, that tacks on additional times where the casual player will lose.

The point I'm making is, it's really hard to ensure that a game is always winnable. But if your reward for putting in all that balancing work is that the top 1% of your player base (mind you, this is the part of the player base that people watch on YouTube and that ultimately influences how well your game will sell) badmouths your game for being "too easy/waste of time/what a joke," then the game designers are going to be significantly more likely to take the low road and make the final outcome depend (at least in part) on RNG and just spend some of that precious development time ensuring that the "bad" RNG isn't so bad that the game is impossible to win by casual players.

--Patrick
 
The trouble (if you can call it that) with designing games that are winnable every time (when played correctly) is that the Spreadsheet-Keeping Madmen will eventually figure out how to win your game every single time. This leads to a situation where SKMs the world over whine about how "...this game is too easy, it's no longer a challenge. What a waste of time," and game designers end up essentially forced to graft in situations where you just can't win so that even the SKMs will lose from time to time and feel like they are being sufficiently challenged. But yes, that tacks on additional times where the casual player will lose.

The point I'm making is, it's really hard to ensure that a game is always winnable. But if your reward for putting in all that balancing work is that the top 1% of your player base (mind you, this is the part of the player base that people watch on YouTube and that ultimately influences how well your game will sell) badmouths your game for being "too easy/waste of time/what a joke," then the game designers are going to be significantly more likely to take the low road and make the final outcome depend (at least in part) on RNG and just spend some of that precious development time ensuring that the "bad" RNG isn't so bad that the game is impossible to win by casual players.

--Patrick
Rng leaving a game possibly unwinnable is just a feature of roguelikes. But on normal and lower Ascension levels, there are actually very, very few truly unwinnable games in slay the spire. The madman I mentioned plays on Ascension 30. On lower levels he can win damn near every time
 
I'm on Ascension 10 for 2 characters, 9 on the rogue and like 2 for the new character (who's only been on Switch a short time) I don't even know how a person can do 30 regularly. My brain can't even fathom it.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
Poker, and any card game, is going to have a lot of randomness involved. It is possible to lose any given hand simply because of luck of the draw. But if it was completely random, you wouldn't see the same champions and winners over and over. It's possible to be very good at poker, and yes, those very good players still sometimes lose, but they still win more often than not because of their skill.
The thing is Poker is against other players, so if you lose it is because another player is better than you. "Every hand's a winner, and every hand's a loser" so to speak against other human beings. But Slay the Spire is a computer-generated obstacle course. You can't bluff your way past it, and if the first act gives you shit relics even though you hit every single elite on your way to the boss, you may as well lay down and die and try again, hoping that RNGesus smiles more benevolently on you next time... and if Act 3 decides to give you only the relics that benefit those who pick them up in act 1 (hey, every power/skill/attack you pick up from now on, 3 spaces from the boss, will be upgraded! isn't that helpful? The next two non-boss chests, of which none remain, will have double loot! Oh, and the next two curses you get will be negated! Good luck with the boss! Oh, and since we saw that by act 2 you were building your deck based on playing the most cards per turn you can, we've decided the final boss with be the Time Eater.)... GG no re!
 
The thing is Poker is against other players, so if you lose it is because another player is better than you. "Every hand's a winner, and every hand's a loser" so to speak against other human beings. But Slay the Spire is a computer-generated obstacle course. You can't bluff your way past it, and if the first act gives you shit relics even though you hit every single elite on your way to the boss, you may as well lay down and die and try again, hoping that RNGesus smiles more benevolently on you next time... and if Act 3 decides to give you only the relics that benefit those who pick them up in act 1 (hey, every power/skill/attack you pick up from now on, 3 spaces from the boss, will be upgraded! isn't that helpful? The next two non-boss chests, of which none remain, will have double loot! Oh, and the next two curses you get will be negated! Good luck with the boss! Oh, and since we saw that by act 2 you were building your deck based on playing the most cards per turn you can, we've decided the final boss with be the Time Eater.)... GG no re!
The frown I make when I get an egg near the end of Act 3 would make the pre-nice Grinch jealous.
 
Animal Crossing New Horizons is a stupid game. All it is, is grinding on collecting to upgrade your stuff to make your grinding slightly easier or to give you some nice things to hang on your wall. It is dumb, but my wife loves it and has created a character for me to play along with them, which I do from time to time.

It's nothing like Diablo 2, which I have gone back to play again recently. THAT is going around killing enemies to get better equipment that allows me to kill things easier... huh. Well, anyone know the best spec to tank Tom Nook's bell spam?
 
So I'm playing Dwarf Fortress.

I get a migrant that's obviously a lady vampire masquerading as a normal dwarf. I decide to get rid of the vampire. I rig up a vertical spike trap, with ten receding spears that'll fire up out of the ground and skewer whatever's standing on top of them. I get the vampire to stand on the trap, then trigger the spears. She gets hit by all ten spears, but does not die. I reset the trap, then fire it again. She gets skewered ten times again, but still survives. She's got mangled and broken body parts from head to toe, but she's still hanging in there.

Holy crap, I think to myself, this is one tough vampire. I prepare to trigger the trap a third time, but then I had an idea. I'm gonna use her as a live training dummy for my medical dwarves. Her spine's broken, which means she'll never walk again, so I'm not worried about her stalking any dwarves and draining their blood. Instead, she's going to stay in my hospital wing, probably forever, to let my medical dwarves practice their suturing, wound dressing, bonesetting, surgery, etc. And if she does manage to recover from her wounds, well I've still got my spike trap waiting for her.

1586069666036.png


1586069691815.png


1586069719868.png
 
I already have 200 hours in Animal Crossing...

It's a good thing we're all locked down and have nothing else to do or I might need an intervention. :oops:
 
I already have 200 hours in Animal Crossing...

It's a good thing we're all locked down and have nothing else to do or I might need an intervention. :oops:
Yeah, I recently started playing KSP again.
I played it for years as a standalone. A couple of years ago, I switched to the Steam version, just to make updating simpler. Since then, I've put in 251 hours.

I've recently started playing again. I feel your pain.
 
Disco Elysium

Welp, that was a hell of a ride. Got a bit too weird and otherworldly right at the end with one particular encounter, but it kind of made sense with everything.

I decided to try doing a sober, straight, mostly honest run. So I basically got the "good" ending, such as it is.

I'll probably take a break from the game for awhile and then try it again with a drunken violent hobo style run, just to see how messed up I can get poor Harry.
 
Yeah, I recently started playing KSP again.
I played it for years as a standalone. A couple of years ago, I switched to the Steam version, just to make updating simpler. Since then, I've put in 251 hours.

I've recently started playing again. I feel your pain.
There will be no discussion of the number of hours in any game here.
 
How come no one told me how fucking good the game Control is? Because it's good as fuck, and it's some Remedy-ass storytelling that I had been missing.

 
I think part of it was the Epic exclusiveness. I might buy it for PS4 after I finish P5 Royal and FF7 though.
 

figmentPez

Staff member
Castlevania: Symphony of the Night on Android

I've never played this one before, so I can't really compare the port to the original experience. I'm experiencing period slowdown, but I have a crappy phone. The only big problem I can see is that you can't remap a controller. Luckily my controller works just fine, but I know Android is very hit-or-miss when it comes to controller support. I have no idea if it's playable with touchscreen controls, but it works great with my 8Bitdo NES30 Pro.

I'm enjoying the game a lot, even though I kinda suck at it. I had a really rough start until I started getting some OP items.
 
I've decided to start emulating PS2 games and play some obscurey ones I've never tried. First up is Castlevania Curse of Darkness since so much of the Netflix show's lore is based on it. How does this game go for like 60-70 CAD on Ebay? It's....ok? It's not good or bad. Like a solid 5/10.

Isaac got the fucking biggest beef up from game to TV show. The game version of Isaac is unbearable.
 
Got 60 hours in Bannerlord. With mods it finally was playable. The new patch fucked everything up though. Cant save and all the old files are corrupted.
Even after disabling all mods it wont save. Hope a reinstall solves the problem.
 
What sim are you?


You’ve got a creative mind and you love messing with and challenging people. People don’t always get the weird connections you’re making, but hey, that’s life. Your job is to shake things up and make the world a weirder place for us all.
 
I've decided to start emulating PS2 games and play some obscurey ones I've never tried. First up is Castlevania Curse of Darkness since so much of the Netflix show's lore is based on it. How does this game go for like 60-70 CAD on Ebay? It's....ok? It's not good or bad. Like a solid 5/10.

Isaac got the fucking biggest beef up from game to TV show. The game version of Isaac is unbearable.
It was a small printing, like a lot of PS2 era Castlevania stuff.
 
Top