[News] US Capitol Siege 6 January 2021

Tinwhistler

Tinwhistler

Also: Kohl's and Bed Bath and Beyond are dropping the MyPillow after the CEO, Mike Lindell, met with Trump.
minnesota.cbslocal.com

MyPillow CEO Mike Lindell Says Bed Bath And Beyond, Kohl's To Drop His Products; Dominion Voting Systems Threatens To Sue

MyPillow CEO Mike Lindell said in an interview Saturday that Bed Bath & Beyond and Kohl's are among the retailers that will stop selling his products due to his continued support of conspiracy theories related to President Donald Trump's election loss.
minnesota.cbslocal.com minnesota.cbslocal.com
 
DarkAudit

DarkAudit

Tinwhistler said:
Also: Kohl's and Bed Bath and Beyond are dropping the MyPillow after the CEO, Mike Lindell, met with Trump.
minnesota.cbslocal.com

MyPillow CEO Mike Lindell Says Bed Bath And Beyond, Kohl's To Drop His Products; Dominion Voting Systems Threatens To Sue

MyPillow CEO Mike Lindell said in an interview Saturday that Bed Bath & Beyond and Kohl's are among the retailers that will stop selling his products due to his continued support of conspiracy theories related to President Donald Trump's election loss.
minnesota.cbslocal.com minnesota.cbslocal.com
Click to expand...
Sorry, but I have to invoke that xkcd cartoon a second time in 24 hours.

Lindell, don't you say a fucking word. You don't have a leg to stand on.
 
ScytheRexx

ScytheRexx

You know, people keep talking about how soft the cops were on the insurrectionists by comparison to BLM protests, but honestly, after listening to the stories out of a few of the officers on the scene, I can kind of see that the change was more about fear then anything else.

It's easier being a cop when you have hundreds of your buddies next to you and you are going to disperse people you know are not going to be overly violent, or shoot back at you. Spraying mace into the face of some college kids during a sit in? PEICE OF CAKE. A few old ladies walking to early voting and stopping near a church? Time to bust out the BATONS! This though? One cop said the only reason they didn't shoot the insurrectionists is because they knew many of them had guns, and that those same guys were likely waiting for one spark to turn the whole event into a bloody fire fight. They knew they were outnumbered 10 to 1 and would have lost that fight, so they did everything they could to prevent lethal force.

These guys, by the pure nature of the system, have power over peaceful protestors and BLM. They had no power over these people who were ready to gun them down, and that terrified them.
 
ScytheRexx

ScytheRexx

Mitch is an opportunist and knows which way the wind is blowing. He also knows that, should Trump attempt to run again in 2024, they are in deep shit. Should he get the nomination again it's likely he would just lose again versus Biden, and should he not get the nomination he would just run as an independent and split their voters. Mitch is now safe in his seat for the next six years and is likely going to just retire after this term, so he has nothing to lose by this point, so he can start trying to salvage what he can.

What do I think will happen? When it comes time for the actual trial don't be surprised if a bunch of Republican Senators in less safe states "sit it out" in protest. Because of them sitting it out the quorum needed to convict lowers until all they would need is all the Democrats and a small handful of Republicans from either safe states or on the way to retirement soon. That will force Trump from ever even running and save them a lot of headaches later without risking too many of their seats. They will still get hit for it, and rightly so, but none of them want another Jan 6th happening four or eight years from now. They might not be so lucky next time.
 
Zappit

Zappit

Staff member
Oath Keepers leader hit with conspiracy charges in connection to the riot.

www.buzzfeednews.com

Oath Keepers Members Were Charged With Conspiring To Storm The Capitol And Planning The Assault Days In Advance

Members of the Oath Keepers, a far-right militia group, used Facebook messages to plan their attack on the US Capitol days in advance, court documents show.
www.buzzfeednews.com www.buzzfeednews.com

There had been talk of bigger charges and a wider investigation and now with th3 Orange shit getting flushed tomorrow, it looks like things might really be starting to move.
 
GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
Now, with the inauguration in the bag and the attempted coup 2 weeks old, I feel less ghoulish for putting voice to this:

The next time another forum debate about the 2nd amendment comes up, I want people @'ing me to remember this event before they scoff at the threat posed to the federal government by an armed citizenry.
 
Dave

Dave

Staff member
GasBandit said:
Now, with the inauguration in the bag and the attempted coup 2 weeks old, I feel less ghoulish for putting voice to this:

The next time another forum debate about the 2nd amendment comes up, I want people @'ing me to remember this event before they scoff at the threat posed to the federal government by an armed citizenry.
Click to expand...
Yeah, because a bunch of thugs with guns storming the capitol was a good thing.

:pud:
 
Bubble181

Bubble181

Dave said:
Yeah, because a bunch of thugs with guns storming the capitol was a good thing.

:pud:
Click to expand...
If anything, this whole thing just shows the problem. It's far too easy to get a good big mass of idiots riled up with propaganda. People are calling themselves patriots for trying to get American state secrets to Russia for free. If Trump had been a bit more competent at what he was doing, we'd all be in a horrible mess right now.
 
Dave

Dave

Staff member
The whole "hurr durr I wuz right about gunz!" is such a shit example using the insurrection attempt. It had nothing to do with guns as much as it did the unwillingness and approval of law enforcement. Guns weren't the issue in this case - it was the capitol police and police in general allowing it to happen, the pentagon ordering a stand down prior to the event, and a political party who not only incited it but actively took part in the coup attempt.

Fuck that gun argument because it just doesn't hold any water.
 
GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
Dave said:
Yeah, because a bunch of thugs with guns storming the capitol was a good thing.

:pud:
Click to expand...
I didn't say it was a good thing, it just illustrates that there's more to popular insurrection than just lining up shoulder to shoulder on one side of a field opposite a prepared and deployed entirety of the US military.

blotsfan said:
Only if the government doesn't want to stop it.
Click to expand...
Part of the government didn't, but I kind of doubt that Congress and the Senate wanted what was happening to be happening.

ScytheRexx said:
To be fair, they failed. They got lucky (or were given access) and they still failed, and now it's going to be even harder for that to happen.
Click to expand...
They failed, but they got very close to doing some real damage, and if not for a certain few very lucky breaks and brave personnel, they could have done a lot worse, up to and including killing legislators. Let's not be complacent and think it can't happen again. That's how the Beer Hall Putsch led to Krystallnacht a few years later.
 
GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
Dave said:
The whole "hurr durr I wuz right about gunz!" is such a shit example using the insurrection attempt. It had nothing to do with guns as much as it did the unwillingness and approval of law enforcement. Guns weren't the issue in this case - it was the capitol police and police in general allowing it to happen, the pentagon ordering a stand down prior to the event, and a political party who not only incited it but actively took part in the coup attempt.

Fuck that gun argument because it just doesn't hold any water.
Click to expand...
Unless you can turn the entirety of the nation into an occupied military camp 24/7, for the rest of time, the opportunity for this to happen again will present itself.
 
Shawn

Shawn

Wasn't a mentioned reason for several police officers backing off of the protesters because the knew they were armed and would fight back, and with far greater numbers?
 
Dave

Dave

Staff member
GasBandit said:
Unless you can turn the entirety of the nation into an occupied military camp 24/7, for the rest of time, the opportunity for this to happen again will present itself.
Click to expand...
Only if the insurrectionists are white men. Otherwise the amount of guns won't matter.

And if they ARE white men, the amount of guns won't matter because the cops and military allowed it to happen.

In short, guns didn't do shit and won't do shit. The events have shown that your argument holds no practical merit.
 
Dave

Dave

Staff member
Shawn said:
Wasn't a mentioned reason for several police officers backing off of the protesters because the knew they were armed and would fight back, and with far greater numbers?
Click to expand...
Only because the police response wasn't proportional and additional cops weren't allowed to be there. Had the crowd been armed with fucking SPORKS the police that were there would have been under threat due to the difference in population.

Look at the police presence between the BLM marches and the insurrectionists. Had the numbers been here this time, the guns would not have made a difference.
 
GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
Dave said:
Only if the insurrectionists are white men. Otherwise the amount of guns won't matter.

And if they ARE white men, the amount of guns won't matter because the cops and military allowed it to happen.

In short, guns didn't do shit and won't do shit. The events have shown that your argument holds no practical merit.
Click to expand...
Keep telling yourself that. I'll hope you're right, but I don't think you are.

If they weren't afraid of the guns, the 6th would have gone differently, and the security for the inauguration would have been very different.
 
GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
Dave said:
Look at the police presence between the BLM marches and the insurrectionists. Had the numbers been here this time, the guns would not have made a difference.
Click to expand...
One of the things people were worried about last week was repeats of the 6th at government buildings nationwide (there was apparently intel that this could happen). The logistics of having to worry about popular insurrection defeats standing armies every time. It happened to us in Iraq, it'd happen even moreso at home.
 
ScytheRexx

ScytheRexx

I think the confusion is that when most people talk about guns in an overthrow the government sense, we think an actual fire fight, and not a sudden, possibly state backed insurrection. Technically, even if that large group had zero guns, it's likely they could have taken the Capitol and killed a bunch of people, just by pure numbers and luck over the fact they didn't bring in the National Guard due to the "optics". If there was a row of soldiers there, it would have been a very different ballgame.

I don't think it's a really good comparison., personally, but I can at least see the point you are trying to make.
 
GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
And, if there is the thinnest of silver linings to this affair, if one asserts that where the government fears the people there is liberty, then some legislators definitely felt afraid... It's just a pity they were afraid of fascists trying to install a tyrant.

Just goes to show you, everything can be done for the wrong reason, and as John Adams once said (paraphrased), this whole endeavor only works if the American populace itself is morally in the right. If the people go bad, everything goes bad, and no government policy, no constitutional amendment, no act of congress will fix it.
 
figmentPez

figmentPez

Staff member
If anything, I would think that this attempted coup would teach us that there are issues far more important than guns. Issues we've been sorely neglecting. If we fought for education with the same fervor that guns are fought for, then there wouldn't have been nearly as much support for Trump and his lunacy. If we fought for freedom to choose our own content online, and fought against advertisers deciding what content we see, fomenting violence and partisanship because "engagement" is more important than anything else and it pays to show people content with the potential to radicalize them. If we fought to abolish the Electoral College, get rid of the two party system, abolish first-past-the-post voting, and other important election reforms... If we fought for campaign finance reform, taxing the rich, reforming healthcare....

If we fought for the things that actually made a difference this year, then it wouldn't have gotten to the point where anyone would even question if guns could have made a difference. Fighting for guns to protect our freedom in the age of the internet is like adding a room onto your house to store dried cow patties in case you need to burn them to keep warm in the winter. It's a really shitty backup plan, and it'd work a lot better to spend the time/money/effort on making sure the heater works, and maybe having a fireplace with a supply of wood. Spending a lot of effort on the worst way to solve problems doesn't make sense when it's taking effort away from much better solutions.
 
mikerc

mikerc

GasBandit said:
The next time another forum debate about the 2nd amendment comes up, I want people @'ing me to remember this event before they scoff at the threat posed to the federal government by an armed citizenry.
Click to expand...
You remember the BLM protests? When the federal government sent armed forces in to attack its own citizens engaging in their constitutional rights? When they were literally kidnapping people off the streets in unmarked vans? That's when the 2nd amendment should have been brought into play. That's the situation it was written to defend against.

The one time it was truly needed and it FAILED in its intended purpose.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top