[News] US Capitol Siege 6 January 2021

GasBandit

Staff member
You remember the BLM protests? When the federal government sent armed forces in to attack its own citizens engaging in their constitutional rights? When they were literally kidnapping people off the streets in unmarked vans? That's when the 2nd amendment should have been brought into play. That's the situation it was written to defend against.

The one time it was truly needed and it FAILED in its intended purpose.
Well, if you have nails and a hammer and the nails don't get driven, it seems the problem is not with the hammer.

Using a white power tantrum to justify the second amendment is bad, bad idea.
Which is not what was posted.
 
In that case the point seems to be that the only people willing to use the guns to take on the government are white supremacist fascists. What an ad for the 2nd amendment.
 

figmentPez

Staff member
"Crushing"? I think they're underestimating the ability of QAnon believers to rationalize away anything counter to the lies they've bought into.
 
Well, if you have nails and a hammer and the nails don't get driven, it seems the problem is not with the hammer.
This is really stretching the metaphor but, if the hammer keeps injuring you somehow (by regularly falling off a shelf and landing on your foot for instance) and people keep asking why you don't get rid of it but you never do because "what if I need to hammer some nails?" but then you do need to hammer some nails but you still don't use the hammer...whats the point of the hammer? Other than injuring you?
 
I think it's like those people that predict the end of the world over and over. IIRC every time the prediction doesn't come true they lose about half their followers. Now that Biden is in charge, I expect more and more failed predictions to dishearten all but the biggest of diehards.
 
Now, with the inauguration in the bag and the attempted coup 2 weeks old, I feel less ghoulish for putting voice to this:

The next time another forum debate about the 2nd amendment comes up, I want people @'ing me to remember this event before they scoff at the threat posed to the federal government by an armed citizenry.
For what it's worth, gas, I've changed my stance on the 2nd amendment. But then I've also become an anarchist in the process so...

However, "gun culture" is still something that needs to be addressed if we ever return to a time when we aren't on the verge of violent collapse.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
Really...

Was there some other Capitol siege I don't know about? Because the 6th was practically a klan rally.
You're only reading the parts of my post you want. I posted:

" The next time another forum debate about the 2nd amendment comes up, I want people @'ing me to remember this event before they scoff at the threat posed to the federal government by an armed citizenry. "

And you interpreted that as

"A white power tantrum justifies the 2nd amendment."

No, that is not what I said. What I said is that this white power tantrum has demonstrably disproven the concept that an armed citizenry cannot pose a threat to the federal government, which is a concept often put forth in gun control debates here and elsewhere.

The federal government was feeling VERY threatened, both on the 6th and after it.

This is really stretching the metaphor but, if the hammer keeps injuring you somehow (by regularly falling off a shelf and landing on your foot for instance) and people keep asking why you don't get rid of it but you never do because "what if I need to hammer some nails?" but then you do need to hammer some nails but you still don't use the hammer...whats the point of the hammer? Other than injuring you?
The asshole neighbor just demonstrated he knows how to hammer nails... too bad it was to erect a cross on somebody's lawn. If only the people who are afraid of hammers would realize you can also use it to build nice fences and houses.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
Also, to address the "yeah but THEY HAD HELP FROM INSIDE THE GOVERNMENT" counterarguments:

They always will. And you always will. "The Government" is not a monolithic entity with a single mind and purpose. As Shepherd Book pointed out, governments ARE people (themselves largely ungoverned). There will be those who aid and abet you, and there will be those who aid and abet the other side, and there will those who mobilize people to aid and abet their own causes. You don't need 100% unity to effect change. Loud pluralities (and even minorities) affect change all the time. The majority of colonists did not support the idea of Independence in 1776, and the majority of Germans did not condone fascism in 1938.
 
Ok, while they walked in, I have no doubt they couldn't hold it. I don't care what guns these weekend warrior wannabes had.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
Ok, while they walked in, I have no doubt they couldn't hold it. I don't care what guns these weekend warrior wannabes had.
It's just really lucky they didn't actually find any legislative hostages and turn this into Cliven Bundy Standoff 2: DC Boogaloo
 

GasBandit

Staff member
Is it? Did we luck out? Because I'd argue their failure only extends this nonsense.
I suppose there's an argument to be made for that.

A lot is going to ride on how much accountability is held, both for the insurrectionists and for their enablers in the government.
 
I don't care what guns these weekend warrior wannabes had.
A side note: it's been pointed out by others that a lot of the weapons seen at these trumpkin events are quite expensive. So what we've been seeing is really just rich old white guys looking out for no one but rich old white guys.
 
I mean they also had to fly to DC, get a hotel, and take a few days off of work. These people might not have all been millionaires, but they sure aren't economically anxious.
 

figmentPez

Staff member
I'm a little confused about what "Stop the Steal" supporters who didn't support the insurrection have as a plan of action. They think the courts are against them, the joint chiefs of the military are against them, the justice department is against them, most of the media is against them, friendly allied nations are against them, the entire tech industry is against them, ... They think this is some massive bipartisan conspiracy that stretches across the globe and yet they think there's a legal way for them to proceed?

"<Elected offical> didn't tell them to be violent!" So what were they encouraging them to do? They told them to do everything they could to stop this. They told them there would be no nation if Biden is president. They told them that they would have no freedoms left if the election is not overturned. There is no other option left to overturn the election. There are no lawsuits left to file, there are no court battles left to be had. Democrats control the House and the Senate. What option are "Stop the Steal" supporters planning to take now, if not violent insurrection?
 
I'm a little confused about what "Stop the Steal" supporters who didn't support the insurrection have as a plan of action. They think the courts are against them, the joint chiefs of the military are against them, the justice department is against them, most of the media is against them, friendly allied nations are against them, the entire tech industry is against them, ... They think this is some massive bipartisan conspiracy that stretches across the globe and yet they think there's a legal way for them to proceed?

"<Elected offical> didn't tell them to be violent!" So what were they encouraging them to do? They told them to do everything they could to stop this. They told them there would be no nation if Biden is president. They told them that they would have no freedoms left if the election is not overturned. There is no other option left to overturn the election. There are no lawsuits left to file, there are no court battles left to be had. Democrats control the House and the Senate. What option are "Stop the Steal" supporters planning to take now, if not violent insurrection?
Candlelight vigils, peaceful million man marches on DC, thoughts and prayers, take back the house in 2 years, follow the Real Media for the frauds to be revealed and hope the corrupt MSM will report it once it becomes obvious the People aren't sheep.
 

figmentPez

Staff member
Candlelight vigils, peaceful million man marches on DC, thoughts and prayers, take back the house in 2 years, follow the Real Media for the frauds to be revealed and hope the corrupt MSM will report it once it becomes obvious the People aren't sheep.
But they were told that vigils and marches would be outlawed under Biden. They were told that voting wouldn't work because voting can't be trusted anymore.
 
I'm a little confused about what "Stop the Steal" supporters who didn't support the insurrection have as a plan of action. They think the courts are against them, the joint chiefs of the military are against them, the justice department is against them, most of the media is against them, friendly allied nations are against them, the entire tech industry is against them, ... They think this is some massive bipartisan conspiracy that stretches across the globe and yet they think there's a legal way for them to proceed?

"<Elected offical> didn't tell them to be violent!" So what were they encouraging them to do? They told them to do everything they could to stop this. They told them there would be no nation if Biden is president. They told them that they would have no freedoms left if the election is not overturned. There is no other option left to overturn the election. There are no lawsuits left to file, there are no court battles left to be had. Democrats control the House and the Senate. What option are "Stop the Steal" supporters planning to take now, if not violent insurrection?
See my boilerplate reply. They're not worth the time or energy to engage, so fuck 'em. Don't even waste energy to think up "what about X?" FUCK. 'EM.

We have enough to deal with trying to fix the damage they've already done.
 
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