K
Kitty Sinatra
No I haven't. Is it a good read (other than the part you've already said you like, obviously)?
Religion?
- Thread starter Vytamindi
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I believe in a god that, to practical effects, could perfectly not exist. A programmer, but not an user.
And I believe in Jesus, wich sounds stupid even to me. I don't necessarily believe in "magic Jesus" but in the message behind it.
We are free beings, in a world programmed to work. And Jesus' message of understanding and "treat others like you would like to be treated" helps us make something good of this monstrous world. Being "a saint" It's difficult to do, impossible even, but if we try, everything will be better and we can stop being monkeys with pants to finally become humans. WIch are like monkeys with pants but much much better!
Yeah, my beliefs have some plotholes, but whatever. I'm simply an atheist that believes in god. And in GOOD.
And I believe in Jesus, wich sounds stupid even to me. I don't necessarily believe in "magic Jesus" but in the message behind it.
We are free beings, in a world programmed to work. And Jesus' message of understanding and "treat others like you would like to be treated" helps us make something good of this monstrous world. Being "a saint" It's difficult to do, impossible even, but if we try, everything will be better and we can stop being monkeys with pants to finally become humans. WIch are like monkeys with pants but much much better!
Yeah, my beliefs have some plotholes, but whatever. I'm simply an atheist that believes in god. And in GOOD.
S
Soliloquy
Unfortunately, I don't have time to get into the details of my faith, but I don't see religions as being so illogical as many people (even many religious people) would have you believe.[/quote]
To me, I think the general population needs to believe in something in order to "function" or at least "accepts the situation they are in"
Most people seek some sort of "reward" when they do things. Some seek out physically, some seek out spiritually, and some just seek out any other means possible. Think about it, if the world is truly "meaningless" in a sense that there is no God or higher power, who are the general public will follow? A higher thinking people would accepts it and be the masters of their own faith, but many people are blind followers (that is what I call them) that they need guidance to accept and do what they do.
A lot of people accepts and do things because they want that big reward at the end (going to heaven) instead of doing good, cause it is a good thing to do.[/QUOTE]
The question then arises, though: why would the general population need to believe in something in the first place? Why would they need to seek out meaning in order to function, instead of simply functioning in the meaningless toil of life, oblivious to the fact that there's no purpose to it?
I also think it's important to say that, though I admit that many people follow religion in hopes of getting a reward in the afterlife, receiving an eternal reward is not the actual purpose of religion--or at least not of Christianity, so far as I understand it.
figmentPez
Staff member
I am a conservative evangelical protestant Christian. I believe that the Bible is the true and reliable word of God, and thus I believe in the truths summarized in the Apostle's Creed, the Nicene Creed and the Athanasian Creed because they are succinct and reasonably accurate expressions of what is found in scripture. Yes, unlike many Christians I have actually studied the creeds rather than simply parroting them.
I believe this because of the wealth of historical evidence that shows that the accounts written in the Gospels are the true account of the life of Jesus Christ, who was God become man. Not only that but the whole of Old and New Testaments are God's message to humanity, focusing on the message of salvation through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.
Beyond this I find the teachings of Jesus Christ to be logically consistent, both internally and when compared to the observable world. I have witnessed multiple miracles, and have heard testimony to many more.
I believe this because of the wealth of historical evidence that shows that the accounts written in the Gospels are the true account of the life of Jesus Christ, who was God become man. Not only that but the whole of Old and New Testaments are God's message to humanity, focusing on the message of salvation through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.
Beyond this I find the teachings of Jesus Christ to be logically consistent, both internally and when compared to the observable world. I have witnessed multiple miracles, and have heard testimony to many more.
S
Soliloquy
Actually, the whole book is about heaven and hell. It's sort of in the vein of Dante's Inferno, in that it chronicles a man's journey through the afterlife. It just takes an entirely different approach to the matter. It's full of great quotes, too.
As to whether it's a good read, that depends on whether you like allegorical musings about the nature of heaven and hell. I enjoyed it, myself--C.S. Lewis is a good writer.
fade
Staff member
I have observed no miracles, nor heard any that couldn't be attributed to coincidence or other explanations. I think people have a habit of tracing threads in events that don't really deserve to be isolated. I find it to be the equivalent of finding a Shakesperian sonnet in the words of a pop fiction novel simply because one is attuned to sonnets by desire. Because you didn't die/get hurt/lose when you should've simply means you beat the odds. That's why they're odds. If it was definitive, there wouldn't be probability in the first place.
There are two points I commonly make: If your God will burn me simply for not believing in him (solo gratia) regardless of any good, then what makes you think that's a God I want to be in the presence of? And (2) I don't think if there is a Christian-style God that a single person on this planet understands a thing about it. If it's all true, they're just puff-chested children going on about what they think the adults are doing in the other room.
None of this doesn't mean that I don't have any beliefs. I like to pretend I'm atheist, but it's hard to convince myself of that. I guess I'm agnostic about atheism.
There are two points I commonly make: If your God will burn me simply for not believing in him (solo gratia) regardless of any good, then what makes you think that's a God I want to be in the presence of? And (2) I don't think if there is a Christian-style God that a single person on this planet understands a thing about it. If it's all true, they're just puff-chested children going on about what they think the adults are doing in the other room.
None of this doesn't mean that I don't have any beliefs. I like to pretend I'm atheist, but it's hard to convince myself of that. I guess I'm agnostic about atheism.
K
Kitty Sinatra
Ah . . . it's Lewis. I didn't quite realize that, though I could've guessed from the context of the post where you mentioned it. I'll probably just pass completely. Not for any other reason than I've got plenty else to read and there's nothing about Lewis that encourages me to let him jump the queue.
North_Ranger
Staff member
Raised Evangelic Lutheran (the denomination of about 80% of Finns), still a member of the church... but I consider myself an agnostic.
Hypocritical? Well, perhaps... But there are some things in life (and death) where I want to be a traditionalist: I want to get married in a church, have my children baptised, and when I croak I prefer to be buried on a church burial ground (if being compressed into a diamond isn't available, but I digress). Call me weird in that way, but those rites of passage are quite important in our society, and I know there's no harm in doing them.
As a kid, I was quite into religion, really. I read the Bible, and thoroughly enjoyed a set of big graphic novel versions by Italian artists of Bible stories in our library. I remember my mom even thinking I might want to become a minister. I believe being exposed to religion like this - at a young age and on my own terms - helped me make sense of my own moral compass. Like drawn_inward, I try to follow the basic tenets of the Nazarene's teachings, because honestly they are good guidelines on how not to be a dirtbag to people around you.
As for God... well, there's the agnosticism. If there is one, He/She/It/They are not knowable. His/Her/etc. existence cannot be verified with reason, but neither can it be proven He does not exist. Hence, I leave it for others to bicker over what to call Him. I'd like to call Him "Maurice", but I think He wouldn't like that. (okay, that last bit was a joke. I sincerely do hope God has a sense of humour)
In other words: I benefited as a person from being made to question and discuss my moral beliefs in a religious context, and while I choose not to make guesses about the divine or wonder if Jesus really was the Son of God or just some carpenter with some radical ideas, I still consider his ideas worthwhile. And I wish that my children feel that too.
As for people who believe... hey, as long as you don't crap in my cereal, I won't crap in yours.
Hypocritical? Well, perhaps... But there are some things in life (and death) where I want to be a traditionalist: I want to get married in a church, have my children baptised, and when I croak I prefer to be buried on a church burial ground (if being compressed into a diamond isn't available, but I digress). Call me weird in that way, but those rites of passage are quite important in our society, and I know there's no harm in doing them.
As a kid, I was quite into religion, really. I read the Bible, and thoroughly enjoyed a set of big graphic novel versions by Italian artists of Bible stories in our library. I remember my mom even thinking I might want to become a minister. I believe being exposed to religion like this - at a young age and on my own terms - helped me make sense of my own moral compass. Like drawn_inward, I try to follow the basic tenets of the Nazarene's teachings, because honestly they are good guidelines on how not to be a dirtbag to people around you.
As for God... well, there's the agnosticism. If there is one, He/She/It/They are not knowable. His/Her/etc. existence cannot be verified with reason, but neither can it be proven He does not exist. Hence, I leave it for others to bicker over what to call Him. I'd like to call Him "Maurice", but I think He wouldn't like that. (okay, that last bit was a joke. I sincerely do hope God has a sense of humour)
In other words: I benefited as a person from being made to question and discuss my moral beliefs in a religious context, and while I choose not to make guesses about the divine or wonder if Jesus really was the Son of God or just some carpenter with some radical ideas, I still consider his ideas worthwhile. And I wish that my children feel that too.
As for people who believe... hey, as long as you don't crap in my cereal, I won't crap in yours.
Conflict is good. It doesn't feel good, but those who don't question themselves and their own beliefs are, at best, plateauing, and more likely than not declining spiritually.
I believe in God. I believe He created us, and as such we are His children - and He is our Heavenly Father. I believe he wants us to return to Him, and has prepared a way for us to do so.
His Son, Jesus Christ, as part of that plan, died for our sins so that we may return to live with him. Throughout history God has sent special messengers - prophets - to deliver His plan to us. They are the men and women that have been written about or contributed to the Bible and other scripture. God continues to send prophets in our day to help us understand Him and His plan better.
However, every person must learn and choose for themselves whether they will follow His plan or not. For this reason we have the Holy Ghost which testifies to us - through our heart and mind - the truthfulness of the message. In this way we can know personally if there is a God, and what his plan is for us.
I have pondered and prayed, and received direct, unambiguous answers regarding God's plan for me. When I follow His teachings I always receive the promised blessings.
If you have a desire to know the truth, ask with a sincere heart, and are willing to act on that answer, God has promised that he will answer your prayer. "Ask and ye shall receive, Knock and it shall be opened unto you." Feelings of conflict and confusion will be replaced with feelings of peace, joy and love.
-Adam
-Adam
Most already know, I'm a Christian. I'm finishing up my Masters in Theological Study (from there I will go on to my PhD, probably in textual and literary criticism in ancient biblical texts) and I'm an adjunct professor of Old Testament Biblical Studies at a local Christian University.
The "proof" I need is found in my personal experience. I can tell you about some of the... amazing stuff I have seen and personally experienced (I won't here, if you really want to know I can pm you, I'm not interested in a general discussion on my personal experiences) and while those are "faith building" experiences, they are not why the only reason I have faith.
I continue to have faith due to a combination of my personal experiences with Christ and due to my studies of theology and the Bible, where I see a God that loves me enough to die for me and all of humanity, in order that we might find new life in relationship with Him. I see history as a tool for God to bring about the restoration of humankind broken relationship with Him and as a means for His self-revelation.
Some of the are "proof" I find is in the eyewitness accounts of Christ's resurrection found in the Bible (which despite what people who don't know much about the textual traditions might say, is extremely reliable), but in the end it's the message, not the "proof" that drives me.
In the end, it's the love and the desire for relationship that pushes me to Christ.
As I have always said, I have no issue with others disagree with me, I completely respect their beliefs and I would never try to force my belief on them. God doesn't force Himself on anyone and I would never dare to go further than He does. I would much rather someone got the opportunity to experience God's love than me trying to convince them that I'm rightblahblahblah. Because in the end, I'm just a frail, small, sinful person, and my value come from Him.
That's what I believe.
Also: I'm impressed at the civility in here. Let's keep it that way so I don't have to break out my mod pants. They are way to tight right now due to excess Birthday cake.
The "proof" I need is found in my personal experience. I can tell you about some of the... amazing stuff I have seen and personally experienced (I won't here, if you really want to know I can pm you, I'm not interested in a general discussion on my personal experiences) and while those are "faith building" experiences, they are not why the only reason I have faith.
I continue to have faith due to a combination of my personal experiences with Christ and due to my studies of theology and the Bible, where I see a God that loves me enough to die for me and all of humanity, in order that we might find new life in relationship with Him. I see history as a tool for God to bring about the restoration of humankind broken relationship with Him and as a means for His self-revelation.
Some of the are "proof" I find is in the eyewitness accounts of Christ's resurrection found in the Bible (which despite what people who don't know much about the textual traditions might say, is extremely reliable), but in the end it's the message, not the "proof" that drives me.
In the end, it's the love and the desire for relationship that pushes me to Christ.
As I have always said, I have no issue with others disagree with me, I completely respect their beliefs and I would never try to force my belief on them. God doesn't force Himself on anyone and I would never dare to go further than He does. I would much rather someone got the opportunity to experience God's love than me trying to convince them that I'm rightblahblahblah. Because in the end, I'm just a frail, small, sinful person, and my value come from Him.
That's what I believe.
Also: I'm impressed at the civility in here. Let's keep it that way so I don't have to break out my mod pants. They are way to tight right now due to excess Birthday cake.
K
Kitty Sinatra
A thread so precise you signed it twice?
L
LordRavage
The subject of God, Faith and the universe has always been a tricky thing to me.
I was a hard core atheiest until had my own experience...but its most likely not what you think.
Years ago I took a hit of acid and a pill of X(Called candy flipping). I can still remember it to this day and it really dived into my soul when the chemicals started to mingle. I saw, felt, something beyond. I know it is easy to say that the drugs just caused you to feel this but I have done drugs before with different effects. I have only candy flipped that one time and promised never to do it again. I did feel down to my bones I touched something beyond. A friend who was with me was scared. She was messed up and remebered me saying over and over again.."I see God. I see God.".
Maybe faith is chemical just like everything else. I dont know. But personally I did feel like I touched something beyond and it changed how I veiw the world.
I am more agnostic now if anything but the experience is still true to me to this day.
I think the closest thing I can say about God or the beyond...I am not trying be vulgar but this is what I felt.......God was the biggest orgasm...I believe...ever.
God is nothing more then an overriding force beyond what anyone can come close to mapping out.
I know Im setting myself up with this post..but felt I had to put it down. It has been something that is always there in my being, even though it was due to drugs.
Forgive the mis spellings....Im tired and heading home.
~LR
I was a hard core atheiest until had my own experience...but its most likely not what you think.
Years ago I took a hit of acid and a pill of X(Called candy flipping). I can still remember it to this day and it really dived into my soul when the chemicals started to mingle. I saw, felt, something beyond. I know it is easy to say that the drugs just caused you to feel this but I have done drugs before with different effects. I have only candy flipped that one time and promised never to do it again. I did feel down to my bones I touched something beyond. A friend who was with me was scared. She was messed up and remebered me saying over and over again.."I see God. I see God.".
Maybe faith is chemical just like everything else. I dont know. But personally I did feel like I touched something beyond and it changed how I veiw the world.
I am more agnostic now if anything but the experience is still true to me to this day.
I think the closest thing I can say about God or the beyond...I am not trying be vulgar but this is what I felt.......God was the biggest orgasm...I believe...ever.
God is nothing more then an overriding force beyond what anyone can come close to mapping out.
I know Im setting myself up with this post..but felt I had to put it down. It has been something that is always there in my being, even though it was due to drugs.
Forgive the mis spellings....Im tired and heading home.
~LR
My belief system got considerably simpler when I finally realized I was an atheist. I still consider myself culturally Jewish though.
If you really want to read about my thoughts on this in detail, I GOT A BLOG.
http://newly-nerfed.net/2009/08/17/oy-vey-this-is-a-long-post/
If you really want to read about my thoughts on this in detail, I GOT A BLOG.
http://newly-nerfed.net/2009/08/17/oy-vey-this-is-a-long-post/
Cajungal
Staff member
Just one more thing I wanna say: I was lucky enough to meet a deeply religious teacher who had a logical reason for every one of his beliefs. He'd spent years in a seminary studying different types of philosophy and science. He's one of the people who made me realize that my belief doesn't have to make me an illogical person. Although part of the reason I abandoned religion is that I believe in a God who wants us to question. I believe in a God who doesn't want us to hide from everything that's been given to us here.
M
meyoumeyou
I would best classify myself as Agnostic I believe.
Growing up (until the age of 11 or so) I attended a pentecostal church. Yes, pentecostal, no we didnt have people playing with rattlesnakes. The types who take the bible as 100% literal truths and events.
It was a very "oppressive" religion to be a part of though, to the point of believing in the evils of:
owning a TV, though a radio was somehow ok, yeah
men having facial hair/long hair
women wearing makeup, jewelry, pants, or getting any type of haircut at all
Things such as going to a doctor when sick were also quite taboo, it happened in our family, but it wasn't something discussed with other church members considering the general belief that it should just be left in the hands of god, rather than a doctor.
Hell, on the subject of taboo, I can remember my mom feeling sorry enough for me in the summer to actually cut a pair of blue jeans down into shorts. Shorts were, while not quite declared "evil", also a very taboo thing, yes even for boys/men.
So yeah, needless to say when I outgrew so much of what I'd been taught in childhood, the disillusionment with organized religion was huge. I've plainly experienced how it can make so many people skip right over the "positive" parts of having faith, and embrace the side that becomes harmful and extremely negative.
As far as the Agnostic classification of myself, from about the age of 17 onward I began to really grasp the view of honestly having no definitive way to know what the truth of it all is.
I now believe the scientific ideals of how our world began, evolved, and exists today. But at the same time I can't get past the thought that at some point at the start of it all (pre-big bang, before that?) something had to come from somewhere. It's simply too illogical, to me, to believe that existence could have began without being created.
Growing up (until the age of 11 or so) I attended a pentecostal church. Yes, pentecostal, no we didnt have people playing with rattlesnakes. The types who take the bible as 100% literal truths and events.
It was a very "oppressive" religion to be a part of though, to the point of believing in the evils of:
owning a TV, though a radio was somehow ok, yeah
men having facial hair/long hair
women wearing makeup, jewelry, pants, or getting any type of haircut at all
Things such as going to a doctor when sick were also quite taboo, it happened in our family, but it wasn't something discussed with other church members considering the general belief that it should just be left in the hands of god, rather than a doctor.
Hell, on the subject of taboo, I can remember my mom feeling sorry enough for me in the summer to actually cut a pair of blue jeans down into shorts. Shorts were, while not quite declared "evil", also a very taboo thing, yes even for boys/men.
So yeah, needless to say when I outgrew so much of what I'd been taught in childhood, the disillusionment with organized religion was huge. I've plainly experienced how it can make so many people skip right over the "positive" parts of having faith, and embrace the side that becomes harmful and extremely negative.
As far as the Agnostic classification of myself, from about the age of 17 onward I began to really grasp the view of honestly having no definitive way to know what the truth of it all is.
I now believe the scientific ideals of how our world began, evolved, and exists today. But at the same time I can't get past the thought that at some point at the start of it all (pre-big bang, before that?) something had to come from somewhere. It's simply too illogical, to me, to believe that existence could have began without being created.
C
Cuyval Dar
I believe in God, but due to humanity screwing it up, organized religion is FUBAR.
Personally, I'm still betting on the Force. Which may or may not revolve around the fact that I want to have telekinetic abilities.
Personally, I'm still betting on the Force. Which may or may not revolve around the fact that I want to have telekinetic abilities.
You know, one of the funnest things about going further into my study has been the merging of science and my faith. I know many Christians would not agree with me, but I find them to work beautifully together. To be honest, I find much of science to be a wonderful exploration of the "why and how" God has done things.
C
Cuyval Dar
You know, one of the funnest things about going further into my study has been the merging of science and my faith. I know many Christians would not agree with me, but I find them to work beautifully together. To be honest, I find much of science to be a wonderful exploration of the "why and how" God has done things.[/QUOTE]
Agreed.
M
meyoumeyou
I can agree with that, and feel like someone on either side of that debate is being purposely close-minded if they aren't willing to at least give consideration to the idea that it all may be very much intertwined.
K
Kitty Sinatra
*is happily closed-minded*
C
Chibibar
You assume the general populous would think for themselves..... I wish that was the case and advertising business would be out of business.
A thread so precise you signed it twice?[/QUOTE]
Why pay the price
of posting twice
when one can simply
sign one twice?
-Adam
M
meyoumeyou
YOU CANNOT BE HAPPY BECAUSE YOU DO NOT AGREE WITH MY OPINIONS THIS IS FACT AND STUFF. SORRY TO HAVE TO INFORM YOU OF THIS BUT YES, EVEN YOUR SMILEY IS ON MY SIDE NOW
K
Kitty Sinatra
Cruel Why hast thou betrayed me? My heartache hath driven me into the arms of another, colder bitch: :blabla:
Why hast thou betrayed me? My heartache hath driven me into the arms of another, colder bitch: :blabla:
Eh, dude, God didn't come out of nothingness, he was always there... at least that how the Abrahamic religions have it...
And even the big bang thing is just copied after older ideas (greek myths have the whole chaos then something stuff too), and it's also not something out of nothing, basically "something was always there, but not like what we know now" is pretty wide spread in modern times.
The realisation that originality isn't something they apply to the beginning of the universe made me just take Pascal's Wager, even if at the time i had no idea it was called that...
Also, talking about religion on a forum is so last week... all of the arguments you're gonna find where already covered like a thousand+ years ago... you know, before the Church went crazy...
No. The Big Bang Theory is not just a myth copied from older texts, though I was waiting for someone to use this argument in a religion discussion... just wasn't expecting it to be about a scientific theory.
It is a SCIENTIFIC THEORY, peer reviewed, and supported by an abundance of evidence which I'll assume you can google yourself.
Sorry: I'm not here to rave 'SCIENCE' in a religion discussion, that just irked me.
To bring this post a little more on-topic, I'm agnostic myself, but when asked I tell people I'm athiest. This is because I don't personally think there is any sort of diety out there running the universe, but since the idea itself is impossible to prove or disprove, I'm open to saying "Well, I guess it -could-... but probably isn't."
I believe the idea was that we all share our beliefs, not argue about them. Which has been going well so far, so the condescension is unnecessary.
EDIT: And I spoke about one second too soon.
E
edzepp
I admit to having trouble with that recently, especially with the whole concept of evolution. But after some thought, prayer and some reading on the subject, (I don't claim to understand everything about it.) I can accept it as the most plausible theory for how we got here.
Even if I didn't believe in Jesus (I do.), I would probably still believe in God or at least some kind of creator being. I don't think I could ever believe that the Universe just explode out of nothingness without SOMETHING being involved. It's just impossible to my mind.
Thank you guys for this civil discussion of the subject of religion. Other forums are just Eeeurgh. Also, Espy, I am always encouraged when you speak about your faith. It makes me feel extremely confident when I see that others share the same firm, real basis for their belief that I have. I really couldn't imagine life without God. He has always been a very real presence in my life.
Man, edzepp, I struggled with that as well, particularly being raised in a home that didn't "believe" in evolution and honestly, I think, like WAY to many Christians thanks to a seriously mis-informed church, that I developed a "if THIS ONE LITTLE THING isn't literal/true" then it's ALL false. So since I had been taught that the creation accounts were literal and historical then I HAD to be able to argue that, etc, etc and if I couldn't then NONE of it was real, etc. In other words, my faith wasn't based on Christ.
The older I grew the more I realized that a)looking at those "myth" genre sections of the scripture are there to "do" theology, not "do" science or history. Not that there isn't great historical value in the Bible, there is, anyone who has done even rudimentry study will tell you that, but there are parts, namely Genesis 1-11, that are there to explain HOW God interacts with humankind. They may be literal for all I know. I wasn't there and in the end, evolution, big bang, 7 days, etc, has ZERO impact on my daily life and my personal relationship with God. So it's not that I agree or disagree with evolution, honestly, I just don't know how it all worked, but I do know however it all went down that God was behind it.
That's where I ended up and my faith has been even stronger once I realized that my view of scripture was too narrow and that God had more to reveal than just a way to argue against the theory of evolution.
Thanks for the kind words edzepp. And like I said again, way to go to everyone here for being respectful of each other.
The older I grew the more I realized that a)looking at those "myth" genre sections of the scripture are there to "do" theology, not "do" science or history. Not that there isn't great historical value in the Bible, there is, anyone who has done even rudimentry study will tell you that, but there are parts, namely Genesis 1-11, that are there to explain HOW God interacts with humankind. They may be literal for all I know. I wasn't there and in the end, evolution, big bang, 7 days, etc, has ZERO impact on my daily life and my personal relationship with God. So it's not that I agree or disagree with evolution, honestly, I just don't know how it all worked, but I do know however it all went down that God was behind it.
That's where I ended up and my faith has been even stronger once I realized that my view of scripture was too narrow and that God had more to reveal than just a way to argue against the theory of evolution.
Thanks for the kind words edzepp. And like I said again, way to go to everyone here for being respectful of each other.
No. The Big Bang Theory is not just a myth copied from older texts, though I was waiting for someone to use this argument in a religion discussion... just wasn't expecting it to be about a scientific theory.
It is a SCIENTIFIC THEORY, peer reviewed, and supported by an abundance of evidence which I'll assume you can google yourself.
[/QUOTE]
That's what the Technocracy wants you to believe... (seriously, not what i was arguing, and you can't deny the similarities)
Also, don;t dismiss the greeks, it's very likely that at the time the myth was written that was the most advanced scientific theory wrapped up in religious talk.
J
JCM
I admit to having trouble with that recently, especially with the whole concept of evolution. But after some thought, prayer and some reading on the subject, (I don't claim to understand everything about it.) I can accept it as the most plausible theory for how we got here.
Even if I didn't believe in Jesus (I do.), I would probably still believe in God or at least some kind of creator being. I don't think I could ever believe that the Universe just explode out of nothingness without SOMETHING being involved. It's just impossible to my mind.
Thank you guys for this civil discussion of the subject of religion. Other forums are just Eeeurgh. Also, Espy, I am always encouraged when you speak about your faith. It makes me feel extremely confident when I see that others share the same firm, real basis for their belief that I have. I really couldn't imagine life without God. He has always been a very real presence in my life.[/QUOTE]You know, a good book to see how one can accept both religion and science is Angels and Demons (the book, not the film).
There´s no difference between clergy explaining things and scientists explaining things, but for scientists are basing it off facts, and are giving you ways you can repeat the experiment and see for themselves what they have said.
Why cant gravity be accepted as a law of God´s creation?
Big Bang? The Big bang theory itself was put forth first by a priest, Georges Henri Joseph Édouard Lemaître, as proof that God set things in motion.
Evolution? The Islamic thinker Al-Jahiz was the first to link humans to apes, and yet he stressed on how such a design and planning must be the result of Allah.
Science has yet to exclude god, and if even the Catholic church has said that the Bicle is fallible, and shouldnt be taken literally, there isnt any reason for one to fight against science.
Nor the current stupidity of asking that creatonism be taught in science class, under the "teach the controversy" excuse.
Are those actual T-shirt designs? I MUST HAVE the Discworld one. WANT.
That aside, I'm deliberately trying to stay out of this debate, but I'll throw in that I'm a theistic agnostic; which very shortly and clumsily, over-simplified, boils down to "I don't think it's humanly possible to understand whether or not there is something, or if there is, what or how it is; however, I do have a feeling that there's probably something we can't understand".
That aside, I'm deliberately trying to stay out of this debate, but I'll throw in that I'm a theistic agnostic; which very shortly and clumsily, over-simplified, boils down to "I don't think it's humanly possible to understand whether or not there is something, or if there is, what or how it is; however, I do have a feeling that there's probably something we can't understand".
I'm pretty sure that the Catholics don't take the Bible literally as a general rule... and as they don't have sola scritura either some stuff might get explained differently then if one just took the text as it is in the book.
Also, if the Goa'uld didn't build the pyramids then who did?!
No. The Big Bang Theory is not just a myth copied from older texts, though I was waiting for someone to use this argument in a religion discussion... just wasn't expecting it to be about a scientific theory.
It is a SCIENTIFIC THEORY, peer reviewed, and supported by an abundance of evidence which I'll assume you can google yourself.
Sorry: I'm not here to rave 'SCIENCE' in a religion discussion, that just irked me.
To bring this post a little more on-topic, I'm agnostic myself, but when asked I tell people I'm athiest. This is because I don't personally think there is any sort of diety out there running the universe, but since the idea itself is impossible to prove or disprove, I'm open to saying "Well, I guess it -could-... but probably isn't."[/QUOTE]
It should be fair to talk about the Big Bang in a Religious discussion. It was postulated by a priest.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lemaître
Ha, i knew it... something had to be going on to be so close... (still, no one came up with any alternatives either, so it's still lack of imagination).
And i wanted to put this thing by Asimov in somewhere, but i don't feel like actually writing a long-winded explication why it's relevant, so i'll just link it: http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
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