Pc Game Piracy - Opinions.

[Tinwhistler]

I don't pirate games. I was just pointing out an error in the "it's just like stealing" argument. It's not. That doesn't make it morally right, though.

I've personally bought a hell of a lot of games out of the $5.00-$9.99 sale bin. I don't have to have the latest and greatest. Then again, I'm not between the ages of 12 and 25 any more.

 

[Twitch]

Why don't you just not buy the game?

Or wait until its on sale?

I don't pirate games I don't look forward too. If I think a game will be good I want to find out so I don't find out it's shit too late. Unless it's a great sale I also wouldn't buy it, you ever live on a teachers salary?

 

[SpecialKO]

piracy is not the same as stealing.
If it was, it would carry the same criminal penalty.

Fact of the matter is, the law considers most cases of piracy (the kind we're talking about) to be civil matters and not criminal matters at all.

Isn't that just because civil matters can incur punitive damages?

 

[Tinwhistler]

piracy is not the same as stealing.
If it was, it would carry the same criminal penalty.

Fact of the matter is, the law considers most cases of piracy (the kind we're talking about) to be civil matters and not criminal matters at all.

Isn't that just because civil matters can incur punitive damages?[/QUOTE]

Criminal matters can carry a fine, and a judge can order restitution as well. So no, it's not "just because."

Congress has deemed that some levels of copyright infringement are not criminal, and others are. Simple as that. Of course, their reasoning may be a bit out of date, since copyright infringement has gotten so much easier since the law was originally written.

 

[SpecialKO]

Why don't you just not buy the game?

Or wait until its on sale?

I don't pirate games I don't look forward too. [/quote]

That's kind of the problem. It's the guys who made the game that you look forward to that you want to keep gainfully employed.

If I think a game will be good I want to find out so I don't find out it's shit too late. Unless it's a great sale I also wouldn't buy it, you ever live on a teachers salary?

No offense, but I can't afford a BMW, but that wouldn't justify me grabbing one off a lot for a month without paying for it.

If you can't afford something, then you should just figure out how to live without it until you can.

---------- Post added at 08:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:34 PM ----------

piracy is not the same as stealing.
If it was, it would carry the same criminal penalty.

Fact of the matter is, the law considers most cases of piracy (the kind we're talking about) to be civil matters and not criminal matters at all.

Isn't that just because civil matters can incur punitive damages?[/QUOTE]

Criminal matters can carry a fine, and a judge can order restitution as well. So no, it's not "just because."

Congress has deemed that some levels of copyright infringement are not criminal, and others are. Simple as that. Of course, their reasoning may be a bit out of date, since copyright infringement has gotten so much easier since the law was originally written.[/QUOTE]

No, I mean, don't the companies/people getting their copyright infringed upon prefer civil cases, because they can get more restitution more easily?

 

[Kitty Sinatra]

A criminal case doesn't prevent an individual or company from also filing a civil suit against the transgressor.

Example: OJ Simpson.

Example: Some punk steals your car and wrecks it. He's charged criminally with theft (and killing hookers, if GTA has taught me anything), but you can still sue him civilly for whatever damages his actions caused you.

 

[Rubicon]

For a long time I didn't see a point really, most games I play, I play multiplayer online. And if it was an MMO, well that was pointless. You had to jump through a ton of hoops to find a way to play online, and free servers for MMO's were scarcely populated compared to the official servers.

Now, my opinion is changing. More companies aren't offering ways to beta a game, or try it before you buy it. A lot of MMO companies aren't even offering an open beta (i.e. Fallen Earth or Champions Online, where you had to basically pay money in one form or another to get into the open beta.). I mean, I waited a long time for Left 4 Dead 1 to drop down in price, simply cause there was no demo. Sure, they had a demo at one point but it was only open X amount of time, thats it... They opened it I think, twice more over the course of the next year for a weekend here and there but if you didn't know about it, you missed out. And of course, people's response is "try it on the consoles, rent it". Sure, if you own a console thats an option but even if you did own a console, why would I want to rent the console version if I am interested in purchasing the PC version?

Honestly the game market is sucking right not cause its becoming harder and harder to try new games, especially MMO's. With Closed Betas becoming even tighter, and Open Betas being much much shorter (Champions Online was open for maybe 7 days? I remember WoW's open beta in 2004 was a full month, Neocron's was two months, etc) it's becoming harder and harder to justify the cost versus risk factor. I dropped $50 on Darkfall (which is awesome it just wont run well on my machine) because there's no open beta for it, no trial, nothing. Sure you get the 30 free days with purchase but thats a bitter pill to swallow at $50-60 for a game you might not want to play after the initial playing.

 

[Bowielee]

Would it really kill you folks to wait to read reviews on a game before buying it?

 

[figmentPez]

I'm always puzzled by morons who spend thousands of dollars on a PC and then pirate games. ??? Seriously, I've seen idiots on other forums asking what $400 video card they should buy, then complaining that games are overpriced so piracy is justified. Sheesh.

I'm not exactly rolling in dough, but betweeen Gametap and all the sales on Steam, D2D, etc. I've got more games than I've had time to play. (Oh my! I'm playing "old" games that didn't come this month! I'm totally out of touch and uncool because Braid had been out for like year before I bought it on sale!)

 

[Bowielee]

I'm always puzzled by morons who spend thousands of dollars on a PC and then pirate games. ??? Seriously, I've seen idiots on other forums asking what $400 video card they should buy, then complaining that games are overpriced so piracy is justified. Sheesh.

I'm not exactly rolling in dough, but betweeen Gametap and all the sales on Steam, D2D, etc. I've got more games than I've had time to play. (Oh my! I'm playing "old" games that didn't come this month! I'm totally out of touch and uncool because Braid had been out for like year before I bought it on sale!)

LOL, I just got Braid, too

 

[Rubicon]

Would it really kill you folks to wait to read reviews on a game before buying it?

Sorry I'm of the mind that any product thats something used over time, should be tried before buying. Would you basis your decision for a cell phone or a car just on reviews? Or would you try the phone out in a store or test drive that car first?

I know, a vast difference between games but reviews are bullshit. When big companies like IGN and Gamespot take money from developers to give games better ratings, we cant rely on them. PLUS, I'm not able to judge whether I like a game solely on reviews, screen shots and videos. i need to be able to play it myself, before coming to that conclusion.

If the game industry isn't able to cope with that, *shrug* fine with me, thats one less sale they will get from me. Double ditto for the companies that load up games with spyware like Securerom.

 

[SpecialKO]

Would it really kill you folks to wait to read reviews on a game before buying it?

Sorry I'm of the mind that any product thats something used over time, should be tried before buying. Would you basis your decision for a cell phone or a car just on reviews? Or would you try the phone out in a store or test drive that car first?[/quote]

When you pirate a game, you're not trying it out in the store.

When you test a car, they don't let you drive away with it with a verbal promise that you'll bring it back or buy it.

No one is saying that they shouldn't be providing trials. I work in advertising, proper trials are how you sell.

But if they can't close the deal, that's not an invitation to just go take it anyway.

If the game industry isn't able to cope with that, *shrug* fine with me, thats one less sale they will get from me.

They would much rather that you not buy the game than pirate it.

 

[chakz]

Interesting. I can almost agree with the "Try it before you buy it philosophy" So long as people stick to it. Going by the smells like donkey article, it looks like they don't. I wouldn't pirate as a replacement for demos because I know myself well enough to know that once I have it, I would find it very easy to rationalize not buying it.
I also find that a review usually does the trick for me. I don't think gamespot fudges there reviews beyond a point or two and I'm usually willing to buy if its above six. and there's always yahtzee who's an incredibly harsh critic and penny arcade which thrives on honesty. I do wish there were still more demos for testing hardware. If I knew L4D whether or not worked on my computer I would have bought it by now.

Personally I'm just concerned about a diseased PC Gaming industry. I really hate playing first person shooters on consoles.

 

[Dave]

I've never tried a phone out before I bought it.

 

[Bowielee]

Would it really kill you folks to wait to read reviews on a game before buying it?

Sorry I'm of the mind that any product thats something used over time, should be tried before buying. Would you basis your decision for a cell phone or a car just on reviews? Or would you try the phone out in a store or test drive that car first?

I know, a vast difference between games but reviews are bullshit. When big companies like IGN and Gamespot take money from developers to give games better ratings, we cant rely on them. PLUS, I'm not able to judge whether I like a game solely on reviews, screen shots and videos. i need to be able to play it myself, before coming to that conclusion.

If the game industry isn't able to cope with that, *shrug* fine with me, thats one less sale they will get from me. Double ditto for the companies that load up games with spyware like Securerom.[/QUOTE]

Gee, if only there were this thing where people could post their opinions on video games. People that exchange messages often who you know have the same taste in games that you do...

Golly, I wish someone would invent something like that. Maybe we'd call it halfsomething or other....

 

[chakz]

meh, It'd never take.

 

[Twitch]

Reviews of games are always varied and we're talking about an industry where the big reviewers fire writers who write bad reviews.

 

[SeraRelm]

As it stands, I have no pirated games of any sort. If I could bother myself to find one of Planescape Torment (for example) I'd probably grab it because I have a badly cracked disk from my purchase of the game.

 

[Rubicon]

Gee, if only there were this thing where people could post their opinions on video games. People that exchange messages often who you know have the same taste in games that you do...

Golly, I wish someone would invent something like that. Maybe we'd call it halfsomething or other....

Subtle.

Still, I've played games fellow forumites have recommended, however I have tried either via demo or trial, that game before plunking down cash for it.

You can tell me Game X is the third coming of Jesus, if I can't play it before handing over money, then it's not worth it.

 

[Soliloquy]

So then, what are your guys' views on abandonware?

 

[Bowielee]

I will admit that I have pirated abandonware simply because there's no other reasonable way to get it. I used to have a crapton of emulators until through the Wii and PSN i have gotten the ability to purchase these games again. Personally, I'd prefer a legal copy over any pirated copy.

 

[Gill Kaiser]

Piracy is not the same as stealing, since nobody loses anything. My opinion is that if I pirate a game which I wasn't going to buy in the first place, it's a victimless crime. If I play it and I really like it, I will buy it. I also buy games which are made by developers whom I respect and want to give money to.

 

[Bowielee]

The problem being, I have an extremely hard time believing those of you who say that you actually purchase the game after "demoing" it.

If you weren't going to buy a game in the first place, why bother pirating it?

 

[SpecialKO]

You can tell me Game X is the third coming of Jesus, if I can't play it before handing over money, then it's not worth it.

And that's your right. The game company has to ultimately make the case to you.

But the point everyone is trying to make here is that you deciding it's not worth it does not automatically continue with you pirating it.

If a snazzy restaurant can't sell me on a florentine-style porterhouse because I've never had it before and they don't do free samples, that doesn't mean that I can walk into the kitchen and grab a raw one to take home.

 

[elph]

You can tell me Game X is the third coming of Jesus, if I can't play it before handing over money, then it's not worth it.

And that's your right. The game company has to ultimately make the case to you.

But the point everyone is trying to make here is that you deciding it's not worth it does not automatically continue with you pirating it.

If a snazzy restaurant can't sell me on a florentine-style porterhouse because I've never had it before and they don't do free samples, that doesn't mean that I can walk into the kitchen and grab a raw one to take home.[/QUOTE]

Again with the food example.

No, you don't have the right to go into the kitchen and take a raw steak home. However, you do have the right to not finish the full meal, complain that it wasn't to your liking, and either get a different meal, or a refund. So in effect, you can demo that meal.

 

[SpecialKO]

No, you don't have the right to go into the kitchen and take a raw steak home. However, you do have the right to not finish the full meal, complain that it wasn't to your liking, and either get a different meal, or a refund. So in effect, you can demo that meal.

Are you guys just not paying attention?

I've said it over, and over, and over again, it is 100% within your right to want a demo before you hand over money, but them not providing you with one, does not automatically permit you to go just take it with a promise, it just gives you increased incentive to not buy it.

 

[elph]

There are only 4 things that are, by law, nonreturnable. DVDs, CDs, software, and under garments. Everything else that you purchase, you have the right and ability to return and get a refund.

Out of those 4 categories that are nonreturnable, all but software has some form of prepurchase option. DVDs & CDs you can often see / hear before you buy to some degree. You can rent a movie or see it in a theater before you buy it. You can go into many record stores and listen to most/all of a CD before you buy it (you can then even leave said store and buy it at a different location that you know to be cheaper).

Undergarments/swim wear, you should not be allowed to return by law because it's a health hazard, but many stores will still accept it if you throw a big enough fit because they don't want the scene and they'll just mark it out of stock. Sure, there's no real try before you buy with underwear or bras, but there is with swim wear.

Software simply does not have a recognizable 'try before you buy' or 'acceptable refund' policy if there is no satisfaction with the purchase. You hope a company provides an realistic demo, but they typically do not any more.

 

[Gusto]

So then, what are your guys' views on abandonware?

I'd say it's free game.

 

[elph]

No, you don't have the right to go into the kitchen and take a raw steak home. However, you do have the right to not finish the full meal, complain that it wasn't to your liking, and either get a different meal, or a refund. So in effect, you can demo that meal.

Are you guys just not paying attention?

I've said it over, and over, and over again, it is 100% within your right to want a demo before you hand over money, but them not providing you with one, does not automatically permit you to go just take it with a promise, it just gives you increased incentive to not buy it.[/QUOTE]

I'm just simply pointing out the flaw in how people keep trying to compare eating / stealing food to software piracy. There's no delusion it's piracy (legally/technically), but it's still not a solid theft to 'try before you buy' this way.

There is theft if you eat 1/2 your meal and decide the price wasn't worth it and demand a refund, or a different meal, or if you run into the kitchen to steal that steak.

They are simply no where near in the same way comparable.

 

[figmentPez]

If I knew L4D whether or not worked on my computer I would have bought it by now.

Why didn't you play it on one of the free weekends?

 

[Alucard]

I don't mind some software protection as long as it doesnt fck up your pc.

That's why I got a PS3 and its a hard transition for so long being a computer gamer

 

[Kitty Sinatra]

If I knew L4D whether or not worked on my computer I would have bought it by now.

Why didn't you play it on one of the free weekends?[/QUOTE]
Because I was busy during that time with other things. The one I even was aware of, anyway. I'm pretty sure chakz or someone else said something like that already.

 

[figmentPez]

As it stands, I have no pirated games of any sort. If I could bother myself to find one of Planescape Torment (for example) I'd probably grab it because I have a badly cracked disk from my purchase of the game.

The sad thing is that no one is sure who owns the rights to PS:T (or Baldur's Gate for that matter). That's why those games were taken down from Gametap, and that's why they're not available via Direct 2 Drive, Steam, etc.

HOLY CRAP! I was searching Twitter to find D2D's tweet on the matter, and found this:
Planescape: Torment, Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale reissues coming Oct. 30
DOH! there's no evidence of a North American release, only Europe so far.

I did find the D2D tweet on the matter:
"hah, would love to re-release Plancescape...if we could find someone who actually owns the rights! Sad."

 

[Rubicon]

I don't pirate really anymore, but to answer a question I don't pirate games I never intend to buy. Case in point, I highly doubt I'll ever buy L4D2, but I won't pirate it.

Games I am interested in purchasing but offer me no way to try before buying, I might pirate depending upon the game/situation.

 

[figmentPez]

So then, what are your guys' views on abandonware?

I think that people are far far to quick to label games abandonware. Back when I frequented Alt.Games.Lucas-Arts.Monkey-Island lots of people would post there saying that The Secret of Monkey Island was abandonware and tell people how to pirate it. However, the game was still being sold by LucasArts at that point! This was before LucasArts stopped selling their Archives collections, but the game is available again on Steam. It was never abandoned, the company that owned the rights never went out of business, and the ownership rights were always clear.

Also, look at a game like Planescape: Torment. Up until this year it was available on Gametap, but then a merger happened and the rights to a lot of games got fuzzy. However, that seems to be getting worked out, since there are rumors of a re-release. I wonder how many called it abandonware just because it was in limbo for a few months?

For me to consider a game "abandonware" it would have to actually be abandoned, and not just temporarily unavailable.