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GeneralOrder24
As far as left 4 dead is concerned, I wanted to try it out to see what it was like, so I sniffed out a copy of the demo they let loose for the people who pre-ordered. I felt like this was a fair comprimise.
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Sorry, what? Did this topic suddenly shift into the "Make facts up" thread?
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RealBigNuke
I spend probably a thousand bucks a year on video games, between console and PC. I've pirated a small handful of games - either due to lack of availability(planescape) or because I wanted to try a game where a demo wasn't available(Spore. Thank god I didn't waste money on that wad) or because I owned the CD but couldn't be buggered to find it(I actually managed to lose a civ 4 CD Although is it even actually pirating if you download the software and use the CD key you bought?).
I do agree with Tycho's assessment, though. Pirating hurts devs. I don't really see where this 'decline of PC gaming' thing I've heard from various blogs is coming from, though. Casual PC games are dominating, the MMO market is huge, and ultimately only a couple of serious PC developers have swapped to consoles, and although infinity ward makes quality phone-in generic ww2 games, they're still phone-in generic ww2 games. They'll be replaced.
If you want to see it succeed, support the devs. Always been my rule. If I borrow a book or comic from a friend and love it, I'll buy one for myself. On the other hand, I want the RIAA to die in a fire, so I never buy from them.
I do agree with Tycho's assessment, though. Pirating hurts devs. I don't really see where this 'decline of PC gaming' thing I've heard from various blogs is coming from, though. Casual PC games are dominating, the MMO market is huge, and ultimately only a couple of serious PC developers have swapped to consoles, and although infinity ward makes quality phone-in generic ww2 games, they're still phone-in generic ww2 games. They'll be replaced.
If you want to see it succeed, support the devs. Always been my rule. If I borrow a book or comic from a friend and love it, I'll buy one for myself. On the other hand, I want the RIAA to die in a fire, so I never buy from them.
If there is data to back this up, even circumstantial data like we're supposedly seeing in the music industry, I'll accept this argument, but from what I hear, it seems unlikely.
I will happily pirate old games. Abandonware, older titles that are impossible to find, shit that isn't making anyone any money anymore. I have the entire back catalog of Infocom games from this manner (though many of them I did own at one point).
New games, however, I almost always buy. And let me clarify that almost. The only time I'll pirate a game is if there is no demo available, and I want to see what it's like. Spore fell under this heading, as the only demo they had was the character creator. It only took 30 minutes to figure out that the game wasn't for me, and it got deleted.
Most games I play are games I've highly anticipated, and will buy at launch, or pre-order. I actively want my money to go to those developers, in hopes that they will be able to continue being awesome.
-note- all of this applies purely to PC games. I'll pirate the shit out of SNES and Genesis games, though I suppose that falls under the old games definition.
New games, however, I almost always buy. And let me clarify that almost. The only time I'll pirate a game is if there is no demo available, and I want to see what it's like. Spore fell under this heading, as the only demo they had was the character creator. It only took 30 minutes to figure out that the game wasn't for me, and it got deleted.
Most games I play are games I've highly anticipated, and will buy at launch, or pre-order. I actively want my money to go to those developers, in hopes that they will be able to continue being awesome.
-note- all of this applies purely to PC games. I'll pirate the shit out of SNES and Genesis games, though I suppose that falls under the old games definition.
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Pojodan
The only time I will 'pirate' a game is for the same of playing it with a group at a LAN party, something I haven't done in quite awhile now.
As has been said, if the game gets more than a couple days of play time, I'll happily buy it.
The reasons for this being that I've bought so many shitty games that I only played for a few hours that I'm reluctant to shell out $40 for just what the back of the box says.
As has been said, if the game gets more than a couple days of play time, I'll happily buy it.
The reasons for this being that I've bought so many shitty games that I only played for a few hours that I'm reluctant to shell out $40 for just what the back of the box says.
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SeraRelm
Why would someone pirate current gen console games? Go buy it preowned at a fucking Gamestop then return it within a week, no strings attached.
Or rent it.
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Chazwozel
This. I'm not 15 years old anymore. I can afford to spend up to 50 bucks for a new game that I absolutely want to play (which is a rare thing anymore). The last game I bought was Ghostbusters for 30 bucks on Steam. It's a rare thing for me to buy a new release PC game. The only one that I can think of was WoW and the Expansions.I don't pirate games. I was just pointing out an error in the "it's just like stealing" argument. It's not. That doesn't make it morally right, though.
I've personally bought a hell of a lot of games out of the $5.00-$9.99 sale bin. I don't have to have the latest and greatest. Then again, I'm not between the ages of 12 and 25 any more.
I actually prefer to buy my video games (box or download). It's much easier that way, without all the hassle of finding the pirated shit, figuring out how to install it, and praying it works. The last game I pirated was probably Ultimate TIE fighter back in 1996 or 97.
---------- Post added at 11:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:08 AM ----------
Why pirate them when you can just buy them on Wii for like 5 bucks?
I play WoW, I don't play PC games or Console games anymore.
The exception being something phenomenal from years past that hit the $5-20 bin and I have some free time between sleep/work and raids. (Saints Row 2, S.T.A.L.K.E.R., Bioshock etc) So I really don't feel the need to pirate anything.
As for the subject itself, if you want to play something. Buy it. Otherwise you're the same as a kid who steals the disc out of the box, in a corner of the store, hoping that the security cameras/attendant doesn't see you doing it.
The exception being something phenomenal from years past that hit the $5-20 bin and I have some free time between sleep/work and raids. (Saints Row 2, S.T.A.L.K.E.R., Bioshock etc) So I really don't feel the need to pirate anything.
As for the subject itself, if you want to play something. Buy it. Otherwise you're the same as a kid who steals the disc out of the box, in a corner of the store, hoping that the security cameras/attendant doesn't see you doing it.
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Chazwozel
This too. Have you ever tried to download a legit working NES, SNES, N64 emulator? Cripes, I get virus alerts off my browser when I so much as think of visiting ROM sites.
For me the 5-20 bucks for old games is worth it over wasting an entire afternoon nuking my harddrive and reinstalling software after a virus attack.
Good video games are far and few between anyway.
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WoW is a PC game, hun. ;-)
WoW is.... a game???
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Chazwozel
WoW is.... a game???
[/QUOTE]I wonder...
If WoW had upgraded to a VR software technology that essentially let you live out your virtual life in Azeroth where you were fed intravenously, taste was simulated, etc...
How many people would plug into a "WoW Matrix"?
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SeraRelm
Or rent it.[/quote]
It's the same thing, but it ends up costing you nothing, so the "Boo hoo, I can't afford it" excuse can go take a flying leap.
Chaz; If WoW were the only game doing so, I might return, otherwise hell no. I'm done with the game.
My views:
Piracy is not the same as stealing. It's still a crime, but should be a civil matter for victim companies to sue pirates for damages, not for harmless teenage nerds to have taxpayer dollars spent on them throwing them into jail.
The "try before you buy" argument is faulty, whether you really follow through with your promise or not. They company owns the rights to the software, and it's up to them to decide how they want to distribute it. You don't work for their marketing department; it's not up to you to decide for them how they offer their product. If you don't agree with their lack of demo, if you don't agree with their terms of use, ALL of their terms, then you simply don't play the game. At the end of the day, your quality of life is not significantly effected because you had to waste your free time on free flash games on Newgrounds rather then on the latest $50-$60 title. Arguing you're somehow entitled to get a demo for yourself that you weren't offered is childish.
Is it a victimless crime? Perhaps. I'm speaking from a strictly legal/moral standpoint.
Piracy is not the same as stealing. It's still a crime, but should be a civil matter for victim companies to sue pirates for damages, not for harmless teenage nerds to have taxpayer dollars spent on them throwing them into jail.
The "try before you buy" argument is faulty, whether you really follow through with your promise or not. They company owns the rights to the software, and it's up to them to decide how they want to distribute it. You don't work for their marketing department; it's not up to you to decide for them how they offer their product. If you don't agree with their lack of demo, if you don't agree with their terms of use, ALL of their terms, then you simply don't play the game. At the end of the day, your quality of life is not significantly effected because you had to waste your free time on free flash games on Newgrounds rather then on the latest $50-$60 title. Arguing you're somehow entitled to get a demo for yourself that you weren't offered is childish.
Is it a victimless crime? Perhaps. I'm speaking from a strictly legal/moral standpoint.
But IS it a victimless crime? For major developers, possibly.
For smaller developers? It most definately is NOT a victimless crime. When more people are pirating your software than actually buying it, you aren't making enough money to recoup your development costs. This leads to fewer independant developers taking the risk of sinking time and money into a venture that doesn't yeild any return.
This, in turn, leads to more and more games ONLY being produced by major developers. This homogonizes the market and we end up with DREK.
For smaller developers? It most definately is NOT a victimless crime. When more people are pirating your software than actually buying it, you aren't making enough money to recoup your development costs. This leads to fewer independant developers taking the risk of sinking time and money into a venture that doesn't yeild any return.
This, in turn, leads to more and more games ONLY being produced by major developers. This homogonizes the market and we end up with DREK.
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elph
I'm wondering where some of you are downloading your 'really shitty' software from. I have never run into any virus (I don't even run an anti virus software), malware, or glitches from any of the software I have downloaded.
To me, it's much more dangerous (to my machine) to surf the internet then it is to download pirated software. I also think it's funny for people that say they 'don't', 'have never' or 'never will' download pirated software to go on about how it's riddled with such malicious code. With the current use of BitTorrent, it's even harder to have that kind of activity. It's a popularity contest, and malicious software isn't going to win the contest.
To me, it's much more dangerous (to my machine) to surf the internet then it is to download pirated software. I also think it's funny for people that say they 'don't', 'have never' or 'never will' download pirated software to go on about how it's riddled with such malicious code. With the current use of BitTorrent, it's even harder to have that kind of activity. It's a popularity contest, and malicious software isn't going to win the contest.
I think that's part of the point I was trying to make earlier, people need to stop pirating because "they disagree with the company doing x." That's what boycotting is for, not piracy. Rampant pirating sends the message "we're not giving you money for your product because we're cheap and we're able to get around having to." If NOBODY, not even pirates, plays the games, that sends a clearer message of "We're not going to give you money UNTIL you fix x."
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Chazwozel
In before rants about Steam being horrible DRM made by 'the man'.We all know that the reason he pirates is to "Stick it to the assholes who make DRMs."
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Gill Kaiser
...and what if you think that a game might be interesting, but not enough to warrant a purchase? If you would never have bought it, then the fact that you played it for free just to kill time or something has no effect whatsoever on anyone except yourself.
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SeraRelm
Unless of course the weight of that desire to try it out just dragged at you until you purchased it to do so at a reduced price at a later date.
I just got Castle Crashers like, a month ago.
It's probably some of the best money spent on an XBox game to date.
...and what if you think that a game might be interesting, but not enough to warrant a purchase? If you would never have bought it, then the fact that you played it for free just to kill time or something has no effect whatsoever on anyone except yourself.[/QUOTE]
How much use do you consider "demoing" a game. Running it all the way through before deleting it? 10 min of gametime?
The truth is that most people who say they buy the game after "demo" it are lying through their teeth. I'd have to see statistical info to the contrary to convince me otherwise. It seems stupid to me to go through the trouble of downloading a pirated copy of a game only to turn around an purchase it. Why bother when you already have the full product?
I totally understand that people pirate all the time and that it's pretty commonplace now. I understand that attitudes towards the violation of copywrite laws are lax, especially in the Net community that has some sort of sense of entitlement when it comes to games.
However, it's when people try to wrap it in some sort of crusadery bullshit that it grates on me like ground glass to the eyes.
I have more respect for the unapologetic pirates than those who try to muddy the water with lame excuses and justifications.
GasBandit
Staff member
Yes, it's stealing. There's no ambiguity here.
But you know what? It might happen less if so many games weren't worth paying for already. And don't give me the "piracy makes games be drek" thing... there was loads of crap shovelware before CD burners became affordable.
It's also worthy to note that piracy rates would be lower if we weren't still adhering to a price point strategy that was developed back when things like shelf space was a consideration. I can get a movie or an album for 10 bucks. I can get a book for even less. But a game costs me $50+? And I risk having no way to get my money back if it turns out to be another "Turning Point: Fall of Liberty" or "Necrovision?" These days, it almost seems like torrenting the game first is simply a sensible act of economic self-defense.
So, as much as piracy is illegal, it sure seems that developers certainly (if inadvertently) exacerbate it.
So wonder so many of my gaming purchases lately come from Gog.com.
But you know what? It might happen less if so many games weren't worth paying for already. And don't give me the "piracy makes games be drek" thing... there was loads of crap shovelware before CD burners became affordable.
It's also worthy to note that piracy rates would be lower if we weren't still adhering to a price point strategy that was developed back when things like shelf space was a consideration. I can get a movie or an album for 10 bucks. I can get a book for even less. But a game costs me $50+? And I risk having no way to get my money back if it turns out to be another "Turning Point: Fall of Liberty" or "Necrovision?" These days, it almost seems like torrenting the game first is simply a sensible act of economic self-defense.
So, as much as piracy is illegal, it sure seems that developers certainly (if inadvertently) exacerbate it.
So wonder so many of my gaming purchases lately come from Gog.com.
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Gill Kaiser
For me it's a matter of principle. If I like a game enough, I will buy the game out of a desire to give the developers money, even if I've already completed it. If I 'acquire' a game and it turns out to be merely 'ok' to medicore, I pretty much count that as a demo/rental, and pay it no more mind.
Interestingly, when I completed the ripped version of Arkham Asylum during the two week delay of the PC release, it ran noticably better than the legit version which I subsequently purchased. I blame GFWL.
Interestingly, when I completed the ripped version of Arkham Asylum during the two week delay of the PC release, it ran noticably better than the legit version which I subsequently purchased. I blame GFWL.
I don't own a single game that I don't love. Why? I did research before buying them. I looked up reviews and asked friends who played them. In some cases, I demoed them through the PSN or developer demos on the PC, but either way, I didn't just run up to the store and buy a game because it was shiney and new. You don't need to turn to piracy to find out if something is terrible before purchasing it.
Buying something without researching it is just plain stupid to begin with.
Buying something without researching it is just plain stupid to begin with.
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